PDA

View Full Version : Pick up games



Grocklock
09-03-2014, 14:02
These three words are the problem with 40k.

Let me just clarify what a pickup game is. It is a non structured game. So outside of a the confines of a torniments or a campaign. But this is unfair to say that this type of game is the problem. For it can be further wilted down, the pick up game that is the problem is the non pre arranged game where the people involved have no contact before the game. So if you phone up your friend and arrange to game around his house you can discuss the type of game you both what to play. This is the chance to discuss game type, kill team, apoc, or standard. Also which armies you going to use of weather you are going to suprise each other.

Equally the above aproching can be done at games clubs who have a forum or a Facebook presents. You can pee arrange a game with the people there. So if you don't want to play agsinst knights you can disclose this before you turn up to the club.

So what games does this Pick Up Game that is the problem with 40k fall as we are running out of options.

It is the games which are for people who are new to the area and walk into the store or gaming space without first contacting them to get a feel for the way they play the game.

But this can be solved in to different ways the person showing up for a game at the club or store should go in with a open mind. Bring a verioty of options in lists. Or if you don't accept that you may not get a good game or worst not a game at all. Which you could of don't if you just took 5 mins before to phone ahead. Also not prearranging a game could lead to you not getting a game of there are uneven players.

Equally game clubs and stores should prepare for the fact that someone may turn up so prepare for it have some of your veteran gamers stand aside to give the new guy a game.

These are all things that people can easily do. It's called preparation or if your not able to prepare then be lenient and accept they the game you are going into blind may not be a good one.

Why am I saying all this, it's because theism complant agsinst GW current system is you need to spend a little time preparing for the game.

Is this such a sacrifice.

A five minuite phone call or maybe visit the club on the first visit to get a feel for the place.

If you cannot do this then nothing GW can do can help you.

duffybear1988
09-03-2014, 14:44
I don't think pick up games are the problem at all. The issue is that the rules are so shoddy the game barely functions as it used to.

There's a reason that Rogue Trader turned into 2nd edition, then 2nd became 3rd. That reason is that the game got out of hand with too many extra rules, extra rolls, and powerful units and items. By all accounts 4th edition was the best because GW actually listened and changed the rules to bring much of the bad stuff into line.

Unfortunately 6th edition is a return to the days of RT and 2nd but on a much different battlefield. You see those old editions handled skirmishes ok and were not brilliant at anything much over platoon size as the game ended up unwieldy. That's what is happening now - there is too much being added far too quickly that none of it can be playtested efficiently enough to iron out anything broken. GW are pushing towards Epic level battles using a ruleset entirely unprepared for that scenario.

In a recent article the GW designers talked about not wanting people to create all comers lists which is hilarious and shows how far they have fallen becuase back in the day they actually had articles in WD about crafting well balanced all comers lists! Now they have practically admitted they are driving the game towards a rock/paper/scissors setup which frankly sounds like an excuse to get people to buy the latest big thing/combination to win.

I honestly fail to see how people can see balance as a bad thing that restrains players. If anything it gives everybody an equal footing to try out their latest narrative driven force without expecting it to be wiped out every game.

To sum up it is nothing to do with pick up games. Even if I wasn't playing a pick up game I would still be disappointed with this edition and how far it has fallen. When gamers talk about having to set up a game and not liking all the pregame work we now have to do, it isn't because we are lazy or socially stunted, it's because we shouldn't have to ask people to leave units at home or deliberately weaken their lists in the first place. The fault lies firmly with the rules. Fix the rules and you fix the problem.

If you think there isn't a problem with the rules then good for you, but there are an awful lot of similar threads opening up on this forum and others concerning similar problems. The drop in sales is also indicative of a the bad feeling.

Thing is we don't want the company to sink - we just want a game that is fun to play.

ObiWayneKenobi
09-03-2014, 14:52
In the US the majority of games take place at a local game shop, not a gaming club. You aren't often friends with the people who play there; that is to say you might know their faces and names and chat while you're there, but it's not like you really talk to them at all otherwise except maybe if your game shop has forums or a Facebook group or something; they're more like co-workers (which again in the US are normally just people you associate with briefly at work, you don't go out to the pub after work with them but are friendly and chat with them in the office). I think the concept of a prearranged game is more of a UK/Europe thing than in the US (outside of campaign/league games of course), which is why GW (being a UK company) is so caught up in the idea of narrative games and clubs and the like.

My local meta is a good example: We have a Facebook group for general chatting about things, but the furthest things come to prearranging games is for somebody to make a post to the effect of "I'll be at the store tomorrow at 6 if anyone is up for a game" and that's it.

This could EASILY be fixed if all the extra stuff - Escalation, Fortifications, etc. was optional and the core ruleset was tightly tuned to be balanced around competitive gaming; before you start about that choice of words I mean that the rules themselves should be tightly tuned with balance in mind, and then you loosen up the rules for non-competitive gaming. So for a tournament you know that for example only the "Core" rules will be used, so no fortifications or escalation or whatnot, but for friendly games you can say "How about we add fortifications?" or "I want to try out my new Titan" or whatever. Instead, the rules are too open and it's harder to tighten them up, when it should be the opposite way (Tight rules that can easily be loosened).

IcedCrow
09-03-2014, 15:30
My area is the opposite of the above. We have four shops plus a gw. Each has a facebook plus i run a general facebook for campaigns.

New players arrange games easily by prearranging either on the fb or showing up to the store and asking around for a game.

Often times games are set up with the condition that no additional pieces be used.

Other times there will be an escalation game set up.

Few have issues.

There is a vocal minority of guys that complain but i find that most people are very accommodating so long as there is communication.

dangerboyjim
09-03-2014, 15:50
I was wondering how other people organise games.

My club, (with 4 members) is the only people I play against now, each takes a turn organising a 4 day campaign (we do one day at a time over about 6 months) so everyone gets a turn. We fit it round a loose narrative that we have to justify allies in the context of.

The campaign may call for units or warlords to carry over games, but mostly we just know the mission, the codex we are up against (sometimes not even that, although it will be a choice of three at worst) and the points.

It does throw up some weird games, like Tau against Khorne Daemons. First time I've ever tabled anyone.

IcedCrow
09-03-2014, 15:52
Me personally i only do campaign games. We have one game against a known opponent and one game where everyone meets at the store and you dont know your opponents.

Scenarios range from core to narrative scenarios.

AndrewGPaul
09-03-2014, 15:55
I've never understood why playing in a shop rather than in a non0retail club environment needs to be so different. Surely the same folk still turn up week in, week out? At our club, we usually arrange games on the night for the following week(s). It doesn't take long to say "what army are you going to use? I'll bring Guard. 2,000 points? Flyers? Super-heavies? Cool."


My local meta is a good example: We have a Facebook group for general chatting about things, but the furthest things come to prearranging games is for somebody to make a post to the effect of "I'll be at the store tomorrow at 6 if anyone is up for a game" and that's it.

Well, why not say "I'll be along at six with my Guard. I haven't had time to paint up a quad gun, so could we play without flyers" or even "hey, Steve, I'll be along this Tuesday? any chance of a rematch against your Chaos Lord" or somesuch? The issue isn't that you can't make arrangements, just that you don't.

Akwikone
09-03-2014, 17:29
I would say pick up games and getting new players into it are different problems. Pick up games are easy in my club of 4-8 people on any given day; Especially since we have a number of house armies that anyone can use. We're also doing an on-going Risk-like campaign which its entire purpose is to get us to build and paint new models and change the dynamic of play with a fair bit of narrative and the need to actually keep your units a live through the game.

The largest issue I see with getting new players into the game is the investment, I can't imagine just starting a hobby that requires you to spend a bare minimum of $200USD to get started in 500 point games(At least for Non Chaos Space Marines/Dark Angels players at the moment with their costs around $150USD). I am really lucky with the club I found, they understand the huge cost and help people get into the game by starting them off with a few sets of models, some old paint and showing the basics of painting. Pick up games are easy with the house armies and they set up quick games for new players where they can be shown the ropes. I can't imagine getting into Warhammer(40k, Fantasy, or Other) without people like this.

Spiney Norman
09-03-2014, 17:37
I've never understood why playing in a shop rather than in a non0retail club environment needs to be so different. Surely the same folk still turn up week in, week out? At our club, we usually arrange games on the night for the following week(s). It doesn't take long to say "what army are you going to use? I'll bring Guard. 2,000 points? Flyers? Super-heavies? Cool."


It may not take long to post that, but expenditure of time is not the reason it's not done. Standard etiquette at our club is to arrange points values only, the moment you tell your opponent the kind of units you will be bringing, you open yourself up to a tailored list and a total drubbing. We do sometimes agree armies to be used, but most gamers are pretty wary of even doing that as if I say I am bringing my sisters of battle anyone who has played that army before will know exactly what I'm bringing.

It would be like playing a game of Rock/Paper/Scissors and telling your opponent that you were going to choose rock before you began.

IcedCrow
09-03-2014, 17:53
Again - thank you gaming group. I never want to move.

duffybear1988
09-03-2014, 17:58
My club is pretty much like Pokemon. Either you get contacted on Facebook or at the club for a game and cannot refuse if you want to maintain your position on the leader board. You can be challenged by anybody above you or up to 2 spaces below you on the list. You announce a points value and a date and time and that is it. If you are lucky you have a mate who can do some spying to find out what the opponent is using.

We follow the narrative that this is a war and in a war you have to rely on whatever intelligence you can gather from your agents. You also don't have a quick word and ask that the other player doesn't bring his latest toy as that is deemed ungentlemanly. It's a spawn eat dog world and you are expected to bring an army ready to deal with anything (which is getting really difficult to do). If you refuse a game you forfeit your place and drop down the league table. This often leads to factions being created amongst the different players as they jostle to secure a high place and hold onto it.

I was sat in second place until a couple of weeks ago when a few people started challenging the 1st place gamer. Now I'm sat in the 4th spot without having lost a game. Basically everybody is scared to play me - which is how I like it. After all psychological warfare is all part of winning. :)

Now I have lured the gamers above me into a false sense of power I will crush them brutally. I'm not joking either - I will utterly destroy them in the hope that the club changes its mindset and more people play a relaxed game. Until they do I'm stuck playing hardcore so I will do the best I can. Anybody who tells you they don't mind losing is crazy or has an agenda.

IcedCrow
09-03-2014, 18:03
My club is pretty much like Pokemon. Either you get contacted on Facebook or at the club for a game and cannot refuse if you want to maintain your position on the leader board. You can be challenged by anybody above you or up to 2 spaces below you on the list. You announce a points value and a date and time and that is it. If you are lucky you have a mate who can do some spying to find out what the opponent is using.

We follow the narrative that this is a war and in a war you have to rely on whatever intelligence you can gather from your agents. You also don't have a quick word and ask that the other player doesn't bring his latest toy as that is deemed ungentlemanly. It's a spawn eat dog world and you are expected to bring an army ready to deal with anything (which is getting really difficult to do). If you refuse a game you forfeit your place and drop down the league table. This often leads to factions being created amongst the different players as they jostle to secure a high place and hold onto it.

I was sat in second place until a couple of weeks ago when a few people started challenging the 1st place gamer. Now I'm sat in the 4th spot without having lost a game. Basically everybody is scared to play me - which is how I like it. After all psycological warfare is all part of winning. :)
Now I have lured the gamers above me into a false sense of power I will crush them brutally. I'm not joking either - I will utterly destroy them in the hope that the club changes its mindset and more people play a relaxed game. Until they do I'm stuck playing hardcore so I will do the best I can. Anybody who tells you they don't mind losing is crazy or has an agenda.

I like that idea

flurpy
09-03-2014, 18:23
It may not take long to post that, but expenditure of time is not the reason it's not done. Standard etiquette at our club is to arrange points values only, the moment you tell your opponent the kind of units you will be bringing, you open yourself up to a tailored list and a total drubbing. We do sometimes agree armies to be used, but most gamers are pretty wary of even doing that as if I say I am bringing my sisters of battle anyone who has played that army before will know exactly what I'm bringing.

It would be like playing a game of Rock/Paper/Scissors and telling your opponent that you were going to choose rock before you began.

Your group sounds like a bunch of jerks.

I have played hundreths of 40k, fantasy and warmachine, placed from first to last in tournaments and have yet to meet this fabled wacc 5 ripetides taudar neckbeard.

Maybe it really is a Europe/Us difference

RanaldLoec
09-03-2014, 19:44
Talk to your new opponent for 5 minutes before the game.

It solves all the major isssues, of playstyle clash, comp / non comp, using FW or not using FW, house rules, count as models etc etc.

Lack of communication between players is what leads to those clashes mid game that suck all the fun out of the experience.

You won't cover everything that might slow down or halt play but knowing what you both want from the game leaves little room for moaning later. E.g.

:) I'm playing a hard-core tournament list that is hard to beat unless your list is equipped to deal with multiple high armour flyers.

B) Oh I'm playing a themed tyranids swarm army, let's play any way.

If they both decide to proceed there's no room to moan as each pkayer is aware of what's coming.

Harbinger
10-03-2014, 01:45
I agree with discussing with your opponent before the game. I try to schedule a game, rather than just show up and look for an opponent. I find the 5 minutes it takes to decide on a standard game or Escalation, etc. results in a more entertaing game for myself. I might have fewer of them, but I cannot say I have played a game with a straight jerk in years.

If one enjoys the more competitive style of play, such as the Pokemon example above, then by all means continue with that environment. Everyone should play in the environment they enjoy.

But to the OP, I do not think the pick up game is the issue. As noted there are people who enjoy the pick up games where you might have Knights showing up and you had better be prepared. On the same point, there are others, who still see the game as a casual one, and "table-ing" is second to having a good time hanging out with others. I think the issue is when people try to force a certain gaming environment on others or is just a jerk player (jerk being "fluff-nazi," "rules lawyer," etc.)

zoggin-eck
10-03-2014, 02:20
Sorry Grocklock, that was a pretty awkwardly worded block of text to get through, but I think I understand what you're saying. Much of it is common sense to me, and isn't just related to this edition or even just 40k.

Luckily for me, I've never had to play a "pick up game" in a store or a club, so these things have never been an issue.

NerZuhl
10-03-2014, 02:52
Why is it wrong to expect the game to be able to be used in a pick up situation? Why can't I say 1500 points at 4pm on Wednesday. That should be enough to ensure a quality experience.

With both players being equal (in both ability and social graces) other games function just fine under these constraints.
"Hey, I have 50 point Infinity army, who wants some?"
"Hey, I want to rumble with 100 points of Khador. Who is game?"
"Hey, I just got a Malifaux army. Who is up for a 25pt game?"
"Hey, How about 2500 point Fantasy game?"

Where as....
"Hey, How about 1500 points 40k Game. I am playing guard. I don't use fliers. No Allies please. But I want to use my baneblade. Oh and I have a couple of forgeworld units. I don't care for allies much. I am fine with stronghold though. I don't want to play competitive."

AngryAngel
10-03-2014, 04:47
I don't think pick up games are the problem at all. The issue is that the rules are so shoddy the game barely functions as it used to.

There's a reason that Rogue Trader turned into 2nd edition, then 2nd became 3rd. That reason is that the game got out of hand with too many extra rules, extra rolls, and powerful units and items. By all accounts 4th edition was the best because GW actually listened and changed the rules to bring much of the bad stuff into line.

Unfortunately 6th edition is a return to the days of RT and 2nd but on a much different battlefield. You see those old editions handled skirmishes ok and were not brilliant at anything much over platoon size as the game ended up unwieldy. That's what is happening now - there is too much being added far too quickly that none of it can be playtested efficiently enough to iron out anything broken. GW are pushing towards Epic level battles using a ruleset entirely unprepared for that scenario.

In a recent article the GW designers talked about not wanting people to create all comers lists which is hilarious and shows how far they have fallen becuase back in the day they actually had articles in WD about crafting well balanced all comers lists! Now they have practically admitted they are driving the game towards a rock/paper/scissors setup which frankly sounds like an excuse to get people to buy the latest big thing/combination to win.

I honestly fail to see how people can see balance as a bad thing that restrains players. If anything it gives everybody an equal footing to try out their latest narrative driven force without expecting it to be wiped out every game.

To sum up it is nothing to do with pick up games. Even if I wasn't playing a pick up game I would still be disappointed with this edition and how far it has fallen. When gamers talk about having to set up a game and not liking all the pregame work we now have to do, it isn't because we are lazy or socially stunted, it's because we shouldn't have to ask people to leave units at home or deliberately weaken their lists in the first place. The fault lies firmly with the rules. Fix the rules and you fix the problem.

If you think there isn't a problem with the rules then good for you, but there are an awful lot of similar threads opening up on this forum and others concerning similar problems. The drop in sales is also indicative of a the bad feeling.

Thing is we don't want the company to sink - we just want a game that is fun to play.

All of the above statement, I agree. More over, we want a game that is fun to play, and offers some balance. Not perfect but a good enough you wouldn't need the pre game pow wow just to try and be sure the game is balanced at the get go. As really that should be handled with the games core rules.

Grocklock
10-03-2014, 13:50
Sorry Grocklock, that was a pretty awkwardly worded block of text to get through, but I think I understand what you're saying. Much of it is common sense to me, and isn't just related to this edition or even just 40k.

Luckily for me, I've never had to play a "pick up game" in a store or a club, so these things have never been an issue.

Ya sorry, My writting is like a pinball machine the content is there bit doesn't quite come over correctly. Especially when I'm typing it into a phone as opposed to a computer

ObiWayneKenobi
10-03-2014, 14:15
Sometimes I wish I didn't, but the reality is that's how US gaming culture tends to be - everyone goes to a shop but aren't really friends outside of that, and you never know who's going to be there on a given night so you make the best kind of TAC list you can and hope that you don't face somebody unbalanced.

IcedCrow
10-03-2014, 14:19
Our city has five large groups. The groups are pretty cliquish and insular and for the most part consider each other in the clique as buddies. I play with three of the five groups and we go out to dinner together and go to movies together etc and go to each others' homes. Random games against random people happen but they happen just as much as playing someone you know here that you consider a buddy.

Minsc
10-03-2014, 14:27
I'm in the "I don't really play pick up games"-camp.

Not because I don't want to, but because there simply are no pick up games taking place around here.
I play in a (somewhat closed) gaming-circle where we have about ~8 active 40k-players. Usually someone asks the rest (forum/phone/whatever) if they are gonna come down to the place where we play next weekend (for instance), and then someone might say yes/no and you will have a game.
Because of this, I haven't had a spontaneous game against someone I didn't know for quite some time now.

Likewise, this also means that I don't have to wade trough the "pre-game-checks" that many are talking about here. We don't do escalation/"apoc" or superheavies without asking eachother first.
Partly because of old habit, but also because we consider it polite to ask for your opponents permission first, before you put down 2 stompas or 2 baneblades in a 2000p-game.

We haven't really started using dataslates yet, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I think I'm the only one who actually owns a dataslate and the corresponding model (Be'lakor), but I haven't actually used him yet. I doubt it would be a problem though. Unlike some dataslates you actually have to pay for the benefits.

AndrewGPaul
10-03-2014, 15:34
Why is it wrong to expect the game to be able to be used in a pick up situation? Why can't I say 1500 points at 4pm on Wednesday. That should be enough to ensure a quality experience.

With both players being equal (in both ability and social graces) other games function just fine under these constraints.
"Hey, I have 50 point Infinity army, who wants some?"
"Hey, I want to rumble with 100 points of Khador. Who is game?"
"Hey, I just got a Malifaux army. Who is up for a 25pt game?"
"Hey, How about 2500 point Fantasy game?"

Where as....
"Hey, How about 1500 points 40k Game. I am playing guard. I don't use fliers. No Allies please. But I want to use my baneblade. Oh and I have a couple of forgeworld units. I don't care for allies much. I am fine with stronghold though. I don't want to play competitive."

Infinity: "Are we using Spec Ops? What scenario shall we do; one from the ITS, or one of the unofficial scenario generators? What size table? What sort of terrain theme?" The latter is important, what with the various troops with assorted Terrain special rules.

Warmachine: "Are we playing Steamroller or not? Timed turns? Are you bringing a Colossal? 'Caster-Kill as an instant win?" Infinity and Warmachine also have the same issue as Malifaux of introducing whole new rules in supplemental books, meaning some people may not be familiar with parts of the game; I always ask if my opponent wants to use the Fire Team rules in Infinity, for example.

I've not played Malifaux or Warhammer in ages, so I can't comment on those.

Mind you, I think the major sticking point in this thread (and all the others like it) is:


(which again in the US are normally just people you associate with briefly at work, you don't go out to the pub after work with them but are friendly and chat with them in the office

If they're not the sort of person I'd spend a couple of hours with in the pub, why would I want to spend a couple of hours with them across a gaming table? It's the same thing, after all. :)


the moment you tell your opponent the kind of units you will be bringing, you open yourself up to a tailored list and a total drubbing.

If I say "I've got Guard, who fancies a game?" and the other guy doesn't come back and say "Yeah, sure, I'll bring Marines", then they're a jerk and I won't play them. The thing to bear in mind is that 40k is a co-operative experience. Even during the game (and the same goes for every other wargame I've played), there are occasions where my opponent and I will need to agree on how to interpret a rule or what such-and-such an edge case should do. Every game has an FAQ, and all those Qs come from two people getting halfway through a game and going "huh; now what do we do?" I would like to think they didn't just call it a day, pack up and not continue until they got an answer from the publishers.

NerZuhl
10-03-2014, 16:01
Infinity: "Are we using Spec Ops? What scenario shall we do; one from the ITS, or one of the unofficial scenario generators? What size table? What sort of terrain theme?" The latter is important, what with the various troops with assorted Terrain special rules.

Warmachine: "Are we playing Steamroller or not? Timed turns? Are you bringing a Colossal? 'Caster-Kill as an instant win?" Infinity and Warmachine also have the same issue as Malifaux of introducing whole new rules in supplemental books, meaning some people may not be familiar with parts of the game; I always ask if my opponent wants to use the Fire Team rules in Infinity, for example.


Both of those counter examples are actually establishing the bounds of the game and are additions. Agreed upon point level and mission (though the default one can be assumed) are all that is needed to arrange a game. Those extras you mentioned are just that, extras and are detailed as such.

Fire team rules are part of the rules. Ignorance of the rules isn't justification, not to mention when there is a free wiki available to read over at a glance should any questions arise. Not knowing all the rules for an opponents army is something that comes up regularly, and can be resourced quickly. But should a player wish, they could easily have all of this knowledge available to themselves. It isn't a question of what is allowed and what isn't in these situations.

40k has become a minefield for gamer purchases. I seriously recommend to anyone thinking about building an army to check with their local meta before dropping 1 cent. Namely cause it would suck to buy that cool new Knight model, only to be told no one wants to play super heavies. I experienced this kind of buyers remorse once before (though it was warhammer fantasy and the local meta used ETC rules and glade guard broke the shooting caps quickly back at the beginning of 8th) and it pissed me off to whole new levels. Luckily at that time it was a rare thing to pop up in local metas and 40k was a safe zone for the most part.

AndrewGPaul
10-03-2014, 16:28
I've always considered it simple good manners to make sure my opponent is up to speed on what sections of the rules we'll use. In the case of Infinity, it's accepted practise to leave the Fire Team rules out for new players for the first few games. I like to make sure potential new opponents are happy to use a rule from an expansion book (like Escalation, in fact :) ) before I play them. I think you're over-estimating the popularity of the Infinity wiki - or even the official website. I'm the only person in my group of half a dozen who even has an account on the forums, and I know a few people who picked up the rulebook and a starter box in a shop without knowing there were any expansions. Fielding a Fire Team against those guys without prior warning would be deeply rude IMO.

As for the Warmachine example, I know plenty of people who assume timed turns as standard - and just as many who do not. Surely it's best to establish how you'll do things before you begin, rather than just assuming that someone who you apparently don't know will think the same as you?

That' all this is, despite some people's desire to make it look really complicated - just sort out with your opponent how you want to play and make sure they think the same. 40k is no different in that respect to any other game.

AngryAngel
10-03-2014, 16:36
I'd have to be of the camp of fielding a fire team wouldn't be rude if your opponent doesn't know about it. Just going over the rules for how it works with him should be enough. If they play the same game you do and aren't a total new player, then that should be all that is required. Obviously if they are brand spanking new to any game system you slowly ease them into the rules but then those games I hardly even consider games and more of learning examples or hands on training to play.

AndrewGPaul
10-03-2014, 16:42
But the point is that apparently you don't know your opponent. Without asking them, how do you know they aren't a "total new player"?

Spiney Norman
10-03-2014, 19:03
But the point is that apparently you don't know your opponent. Without asking them, how do you know they aren't a "total new player"?

I very rarely play someone I genuinely don't know at all, but if it did happen I would go for a middle of the road, fun list. I always build the rarely I bring in line with the skill level of my opponent, so I'd go much easier on a new player than I would on an experienced veteran.

murgel2006
10-03-2014, 19:43
Until a few years ago I never had the need for pick up games, because of the players around me and my personal schedule.
Recently this has changed a bit and I see myself more often in need for a pick up if I want to play at all.
And I hate it.
I do not like the meaningless battle with no story, no intent, no consequences... I do not like it, that players come to the store/club with "1250 points only". And I really hate the increase of competitive stile of gaming which has resulted for the first.

It used to be a cooperation of two people to have fun together. Yes, I am one of those who make funny sounds like gunfire and it is very important to me if my rune priest is fried to death or dies with his head blown of with a psy attack or if the is reduced to gue by shurikenfire.
And yes, I consider it important to know how a weapon works to apply it on the battlefield Fluff to me is way more important then the RAW. (i.e. meltas flamers and plasma have been useless on the Avatar around our group for a long time).

Pick up games are IMO very important for new players, to introduce rules game-mechanics etc. however the next step is most often not done, the introduction into narrative gaming. Sad, ´cause GW would sell many more models and not only the "competitive" ones if this were done consequently and strongly in the GW stores.

AngryAngel
10-03-2014, 20:14
I've never had a brand new player not say in the beginning that he's brand new, or very new. Then from there, I'll ask what he does know. In my particular situation though, I teach a lot of new people, so generally I do a lot of training games and when I can get in actual games.

Minsc
10-03-2014, 21:23
I've never had a brand new player not say in the beginning that he's brand new, or very new. Then from there, I'll ask what he does know. In my particular situation though, I teach a lot of new people, so generally I do a lot of training games and when I can get in actual games.

It makes for a quite fun game, to tell someone you've never met before that you're brand new to the game, eventough you have played it for 10+ years. ;)

(Well, fun for you, not the guy you just met...)

stroller
11-03-2014, 00:21
I've never had a problem with "Hey. Fancy a game....?"

Sure a little chat beforehand helps - particularly about time available - but otherwise - just play....

AngryAngel
11-03-2014, 00:43
It makes for a quite fun game, to tell someone you've never met before that you're brand new to the game, eventough you have played it for 10+ years. ;)

(Well, fun for you, not the guy you just met...)

Yeah but unless your pretty dense you'll know pretty soon in if that is a lie. However, as I'd be playing the game with a new player not to win and explaining everything to him to help teach him, I think he'd be more annoyed with the deception then find it fun to try and fool me or vice versa. Though that said, I know some players who love to try and stomp a new player, I don't condone such behavior, and tricking them with a very skilled plant would be very nice.