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Minty
09-03-2014, 15:41
D'ye recall the Hexwraith-related panic and cries of 'broken' which erupted around (before, in fact) the current Vampire Counts book was published?

The idea of fast cavalry that can ride through things and hit them caused a lot of people to lose their poo at the time - and then a lot of other people pointed out that, no, actually they're pretty vulnerable and fairly expensive for a gimmick.


Now, I find myself wondering what the feeling is in these enlightened times when everyone is used to them, and all - friend and foe - know what they can do and how to deal with them?

For my part I use them every game I can. Usually two units of five. One unit in small games. I like them and they rarely disappoint, even if they have never won me a game single-handed.


But I had a quick look through the VC Army List Forum and it seems most people do not. People running Hexwraiths are certainly the minority, and by a significant margin.

But then... I'm a fluff player, a fun player. A non-competative player.

So I find myself wondering how the ol' Reaper Knights are viewed by more competitive, demanding Vampire generals? And by players of other armies?

Dark Aly
09-03-2014, 16:07
I find them useful sometimes but situational. In an ethereal heavy army they are at their best due to target saturation but their counters are very effective and not too rare.

Wesser
09-03-2014, 17:07
Didnt like the models, so never field them....

I think the issue with Hexwraiths is that people fielding them are often spamming ethereals....

Knifeparty
09-03-2014, 17:38
The most useful aspect of Hexwraiths is the ability to put pressure on the enemy. It's not really about how much damage the can put out, but about the fear of the amount of havoc they can cause. The enemy will be scrambling to deal with Hexwraiths early because if they get to where they need to be they can tie up a serious unit for a long time, or make short work of your chaff and war machines. Mostly it puts the enemy on the defensive early in the game, and gives you time to manoeuvre your bigger units into an advantageous position.

SpanielBear
09-03-2014, 18:35
For once, Wood Elves are not at a disadvantage here. One way or another, we don't lack for magic weaponry, so ethereal is easy enough to counter. Can't speak for other armies though.

I quite like the models and the basic idea. Like has been said, it seems a lot of their real threat is psychological rather than physical.

SteveW
09-03-2014, 18:58
I have had hexwraiths own my entire Orc n Goblin army by themselves. I have also had a guy sink all his points into two huge units of them that were obliterated by one unit of grail knights. Everything in warhammer has a counter. Our job as a general is to think of these things before the battle and come prepared.

Lord Solar Plexus
09-03-2014, 19:06
I think they're pretty useful. I like Fast Cavalry in general. Hexwraiths are even better in that they are even more mobile, and once you're behind your opponent's lines, it takes some effort to get rid of them.

meowser
09-03-2014, 19:09
I love the models and have a ton. I use them to punish my friend who plays ogres since he refuses to take an all-comers list and just consigns himself to lose against any ethereal, with a total lack of magic weapons or yhetees.

Bugg13
09-03-2014, 19:22
An organ gun'll do for them nicely, I imagine any other ranged magical attacks will have similar success against them.

SpanielBear
09-03-2014, 19:26
An organ gun'll do for them nicely, I imagine any other ranged magical attacks will have similar success against them.

Oh absolutely, although the beauty of them (and by extension any similar unit) is that it is a turn the organ gun isn't shooting anything else.

Bugg13
09-03-2014, 19:36
Can't argue with that - I've blown away the hexwraiths just for the vargheists hiding behind them get away scot free.

Kayosiv
09-03-2014, 20:29
I think that if they could always march, they really would be overpowered in their ability to get free hits on stuff. However, since they have to march all the way through a unit and at least 1 inch out the other side, they can effectively only do it 1 time until they are stuck outside of the general's range, unable to march, and will have very hard time positioning into a place that they can continue to do it without just being charged by something.

As a sort of heavy fast cavalry they are interesting. Most fast cavalry is only strength 4 on the charge and strength 3 most other times. Hexwraiths are strength 5 always and ignore armor to boot, plus they're great at fighting regenerates who frequently lack magic attacks. I like them, but have rarely taken them in my army. I use Vargheists in my list for their role because I don't like how all or nothing the hexwraiths are.

moonlapse
09-03-2014, 23:32
Oh absolutely, although the beauty of them (and by extension any similar unit) is that it is a turn the organ gun isn't shooting anything else.

Might as well say 'well if the TG screams at my skullcrushers it's not screaming at anything else.' Yes, but you'll still wish it wasn't screaming at your skullcrushers...

SpanielBear
09-03-2014, 23:56
Might as well say 'well if the TG screams at my skullcrushers it's not screaming at anything else.' Yes, but you'll still wish it wasn't screaming at your skullcrushers...

It's Warhammer. Everything's going to be attacked at some point. I've yet to have a game where I haven't lost a single model. All that said, most lists do have some redundancy built in so that if one thing dies other units can still take vengeance and win me the battle. So yeah, if the Terrorgheist screaming at my skull-crushers, to use your example, means that my lord and his chaos knights gets to charge the vampire- yeah, that works. In a perfect world, all my units would do their jobs unassailed by opposing units but what's the phrase? No battle plan survives contact with the enemy?

Urgat
10-03-2014, 15:30
Might as well say 'well if the TG screams at my skullcrushers it's not screaming at anything else.' Yes, but you'll still wish it wasn't screaming at your skullcrushers...

Ahah, I feel the same whenever someone argues that giants are good since they draw fire from other units.
Like "oh, good, instead of shooting my blocks of infantry, you shoot the big 200pts target. You're silly right?" :p


I've yet to have a game where I haven't lost a single model.

You haven't played enough then :p I've had a few, and I lost a few battles w/o killing anything too :shifty:

Lordcypress
10-03-2014, 17:01
Problem with Hexwraiths as mentioned earlier, they need to be within the VC general to actually get anywhere. They can be a tricky unit to use sometimes. I actually prefer a unit of 3 Cairn Wraiths over a unit of 5 Hexwraiths. You get 1 more wound and 4 more strength 5 attacks from the Cairn Wraiths for the exact same points. Do they serve the same roles? Not really but the points I personally prefer the Cairn Wraiths.

Ramius4
10-03-2014, 17:28
Yeah, I've got to agree, it's tough to get Hexwraiths through an enemy unit. And even if you're close enough to try marching through on your next turn, you're also close enough to be charged. Combat resolution is a very real threat to any ethereal unit, even if the opponent doesn't have magic weapons. Not to mention magic missiles and direct damage spells.

Archon of Death
10-03-2014, 17:55
Yes, combat res is death. That is where being sure they can't hurt you helps, you're now down like 3~5 CR. So you also must make sure you can take out at least 3-5 of them. Once you've managed that, you will have staying power.

As for getting them there, hinge with wolves so they are held up, put a better target nearby (vargs, black knights, horde of undead, something that can be killed), then target priority becomes an issue, they may choose to take a more defensive stance, run through them, if they go offensive, make sure to have another unit to run through. Or you can simply use that to harass range units. There are a boat load of tactics with them, including running them as a 10 man line, running 2 units, etc.

Don't underestimate them, don't overestimate them. They hold a broken place with the right support

Maoriboy007
12-03-2014, 03:15
I love my Hexwraiths, they are one of the most versatile units in the army and I personally rate them far higher than what I consider to be the way overrated terrorgheist. Not that Hexwraiths are OP, as ramius points out

Yeah, I've got to agree, it's tough to get Hexwraiths through an enemy unit. And even if you're close enough to try marching through on your next turn, you're also close enough to be charged. Combat resolution is a very real threat to any ethereal unit, even if the opponent doesn't have magic weapons. Not to mention magic missiles and direct damage spells. they have plenty of hard counters, but decent play should see you always get some real use out of them, even if it is just to soak up some power dice.

MOMUS
12-03-2014, 16:03
Saw a VC player using three units of 6 (?) hexwraiths and 3 terroghiests at a tourney recently, ghoul king on one of the screamers means the hex wraiths get that ghost march off a lot more. Nasty.