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Death Korp
09-03-2014, 18:49
I've bet a lot of you on here have felt a little down on the whole 40k scene with dataslates, super heavies, fortifications etc 'contaminating' the game that we all know and love. I've been out of the game a little while, but I have kept in contact with the game through the forums such as this one and dakka dakka for example. Obviously, new information about new armies came out with a certain element of bias. For example, when Escalation came out, many people focused on the bad points (some very well justified (I'm looking at you Reverent Titan)) rather than the good points of the inclusion of it within the normal game. So, as you can see here, as I'm relying on this data to inform myself of the state of the game. And as you can probably tell, relying on just forums had left a bad taste in my mouth about the game.

However, I went to WHW today, and I left happy with the game. It wasn't all WAAC TAC lists, or anything of the sort. It was a campaign weekend going on, and I saw all the armies people had put out, from mech Guard to Space Marines and Orks, using lists that would be torn apart on sites like these because there isn't 4 Heldrakes, and nicely painted armies. It put me in a better spirit, as for ME , that is what the hobby is about.

And I think that is the important thing. Just because all these rules are out, doesn't mean you have to use them. Of course it would be better if it was a balanced game, but we're stuck with what we've got, and all tournaments have to do is remove parts they don't like. I'm not at all a GW fanboy (well, with the amount of money spent in the past, I might as well be...) and I do see faults with the company, as there are many as with plenty of other company. But, in general, I feel better about the hobby, and I look forwards to getting a job after uni and being able to finally afford some stuff to add to my Space Marines (oh you sweet Fellblade).

IcedCrow
09-03-2014, 18:54
The hobby is entirely what one chooses to make from it.

Formerly Wu
09-03-2014, 19:32
Amen to that, IcedCrow.

Kijamon
09-03-2014, 19:34
The campaign weekends are awesome at warhammer world, well worth a visit for one. Really fun to take part in something that matters for a faction, rather than an individual.

IcedCrow
09-03-2014, 19:38
The campaign weekends are awesome at warhammer world, well worth a visit for one. Really fun to take part in something that matters for a faction, rather than an individual.

I love faction games so much. I wish I lived closer to Warhammer World.

Sir Didymus
09-03-2014, 19:50
Rules change, models remain :)

Inquisitor Engel
09-03-2014, 20:20
forums such as this one and dakka dakka

This is part of the problem. I love the Warseer community, I was here from the start and I helped build it, but I certainly don't love everyone here, nor do I love every part of the community either. It's called "Whineseer" on some other boards for a very good reason. Dakka is even worse. For me here, the good outweighs the bad, and focusing on the modeling and background portions REALLY makes me ENJOY 40k, moreso than worrying about meta game and list-spam. It's very easy to follow the GW-hate rabbit hole though.

Spiney Norman
09-03-2014, 22:24
This is part of the problem. I love the Warseer community, I was here from the start and I helped build it, but I certainly don't love everyone here, nor do I love every part of the community either. It's called "Whineseer" on some other boards for a very good reason. Dakka is even worse. For me here, the good outweighs the bad, and focusing on the modeling and background portions REALLY makes me ENJOY 40k, moreso than worrying about meta game and list-spam. It's very easy to follow the GW-hate rabbit hole though.

This is pretty much where I am at too, the warseer community is great for the most part, sure you have the whiners who congregate to lament the weakness of the latest codex and the hyper-sarcastic counter-whiners who turn up to spit over everyone else's posts and make sure everyone know how superior they are, but those people are the minority. I find that most warseerers are generally fun to discuss things with and can tolerate someone else's point of view without shouting at them via a keyboard.

I started 40k in early 3rd edition, and I both love and hate where 40k is now, the models that they have turned out in the last few years have been truly breathtaking, and I have never enjoyed the modeling side of the hobby more than I do now. On the other hand the game itself has never been in a worse position since I started than it is now, with superheavies, knight armies and riptide/wraithknight/heldrake spam armies that can, and often are, sprung on you with no warning, playing games has become a bit of a chore and I generally paint and model more than I play 40k these days.

The bearded one
09-03-2014, 22:49
This hobby is far more enjoyable when you realise you really shouldn't be taking it too seriously, primarily the gaming aspect.

About a year ago I realised I really didn't want to have anything to do anymore with the competitive tournament scene, and don't want to play the competitive/WAAC players anymore, or in the Grand Tournament - or the other tournaments the GT's organizers organize (the organizers are nice guys, but I can't stand the atmosphere of some of the gamers anymore). I just go to small local tournaments, or the ones organized by my storeclub (doubles tourneys and the like), and Throne of Skulls, which is very fun and relaxed. It also means you don't need to optimize your lists as much, so can use "lesser" units that you think are fun or cool.


This is pretty much where I am at too, the warseer community is great for the most part, sure you have the whiners who congregate to lament the weakness of the latest codex and the hyper-sarcastic counter-whiners who turn up to spit over everyone else's posts and make sure everyone know how superior they are, but those people are the minority. I find that most warseerers are generally fun to discuss things with and can tolerate someone else's point of view without shouting at them via a keyboard.

I'll let you in on a little secret I found in the past few years. Internet fandoms and supposed "fan"sites are actually the gathering cesspits of every kind of complainer, whiner and hater within that fandom, (particularly in franchises with multiple 'installments', where fans of the earlier/earliest installments pointlessly battle the new people in a maelstrom of hate).

For example, I enjoy the Stargate franchise. I liked SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, and Stargate Universe, and at some point joined the largest forum - gateworld - to talk about it with others, but the third show was a departure from the first two shows in story style, so many actively hated it. In fact, the hating party split off from the "main" stargate forum, and built a (moneycosting) forum-website called "SGU-Sucks". How's that for hating? Within a "fandom". I also enjoy Avatar: The Last airbender (not the movie), and the currently running sequelshow The Legend of Korra. I loved these shows, so joined a fan forum because I wanted to talk about it with other people who loved it. The hateful divide between the two shows is practically worse than in the SG fandom. I'm following a tumblr user who loves LoK, but distanced herself from the fandom as much as possible, because it triggered her anxiety attacks. In fact when I (kindly) asked the question on the forum why people were even in the LoK section of the "fan"forum if they hated it ('trainwreck' was the kindest of the comparisons someone made), I got replies amounting to "**** off then". From a mod.

In comparison the very worst areas of Warseer are a positively pleasant, soothing experience.

Surgency
09-03-2014, 23:04
sure you have the whiners who congregate to lament the weakness of the latest codex and the hyper-sarcastic counter-whiners who turn up to spit over everyone else's posts and make sure everyone know how superior they are, but those people are the minority.

I like how you take the high ground here and go out of your way to avoid trying to make one side look better than the other. Kudos to you for not instigating.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Darnok
10-03-2014, 00:03
This is part of the problem. I love the Warseer community, I was here from the start and I helped build it, but I certainly don't love everyone here, nor do I love every part of the community either. It's called "Whineseer" on some other boards for a very good reason. Dakka is even worse. For me here, the good outweighs the bad, and focusing on the modeling and background portions REALLY makes me ENJOY 40k, moreso than worrying about meta game and list-spam. It's very easy to follow the GW-hate rabbit hole though.

You need some good nerves on here every now and then. I should know, I need to moderate this mess. :D

But in the end, I think WarSeer is still a pretty constructive community. There is a great amount of creativity going on in the project logs, and the tactics sections are always worth a look too. The rumour forums, while not being what they once were, are still a good place to stay informed. And even WHF/40K General are better than their reputation - I have followed good and constructive discussions in both of them at all times. This community is well worth the efforts for me.

Concerning the game itself: I think IcedCrow has hit the nail on the head. Gaming is about what you do with your actual buddies, not about what the internet might claim. Go out, have fun.

exsanguis
10-03-2014, 00:25
Agreed. Played my Heresy Death Guard against a Codex Space Marines army yesterday. The SM army was hugely unoptimized, and I basically had to use some of his minis as stand ins for my own, but it was great fun! My Spartan went through his Rhinos and Razorbacks like a hot knife through butter, and my 20 man Tacticals with Apothecary butchered two SM Tactical Squads and an Assault Squad. But, the models looks beautiful on the table, and my Deathshroud + Praetor went head to head with his Chapter Master + TH/SS Terminators for 2 rounds, and everyone just piled in on top of it. It was a huge, completely mixed up melee, but it was great fun. After so many years of us running TAC tourney type lists, we really enjoyed just taking whatever the hell we wanted and duking it out.

I would heartily suggest taking the HH books out for a spin if you haven't. Those 20 man Tac Squads are so fluffy for the DG, and they soaked up fire like the tanks they are! Also give Necromunda a crack. We love it, and you start to get really protective of your gang when they start getting taken out!

duffybear1988
10-03-2014, 00:52
Personally I actually enjoy the banter between the so called haters and counter haters. If everybody agreed all the time life would be boring. The same goes for opinions on all kinds of stuff. For example I love the game Defiance. I find it interesting and engaging with some pretty cool DLC. By contrast if you visit the internet forums pretty much all you find are people moaning about this and that. They treat it as a hardcore MMO, I just like to run around in stealth mode with a katana and kill hellbugs and mutants. Alternatively I'll just take my roller for a spin and do any side mission that comes my way. They have problems with it and I don't. They vent their anger and I argue my points. In the end I can see why they have issues, some of them I even agree with. Like 40k maybe a middle ground could be found if the game designers actually put a bit more effort it.

At the end of the day it is what it is and everyone has a case for and against stuff. As long as people don't stop me setting down my views then I have no issue with them laying down their's.

Ssilmath
10-03-2014, 00:59
That's not how you come across at all, Duffy.

Inquisitor Engel
10-03-2014, 01:27
And even WHF/40K General are better than their reputation - I have followed good and constructive discussions in both of them at all times. This community is well worth the efforts for me.

Definitely. Warseer is what kept me in the hobby overall. Getting over "Internet arguments" was a big improvement. It's so easy to go down the rabbit hole, but it's so much easier just to close the tab and move on. I'm glad I learned to do it. :)


Concerning the game itself: I think IcedCrow has hit the nail on the head. Gaming is about what you do with your actual buddies, not about what the internet might claim. Go out, have fun.

Yep. I think this is something more people would do well to remember. Their view/community/gaming group is not the same as everyone else's. Being aware of confirmation bias makes forums a better place!

Kingly
10-03-2014, 01:41
I think the problem lies between posters that play casual and those who play competitive, also the many sub groups. Me and my mates play a lot of games and I've got enough experience to know how to swing combats in my favour and how to counter uber competitive lists, Mathshammer is possibly one of the worst things to happen to this hobby as well in my mind.
I'm loving the last two years of this hobby and I don't think GW have ever been so interactive and current, I love all the extras as variety is the spice of life.
Give me more I say.

NerZuhl
10-03-2014, 03:08
I've bet a lot of you on here have felt a little down on the whole 40k scene with dataslates, super heavies, fortifications etc 'contaminating' the game that we all know and love. I've been out of the game a little while, but I have kept in contact with the game through the forums such as this one and dakka dakka for example. Obviously, new information about new armies came out with a certain element of bias. For example, when Escalation came out, many people focused on the bad points (some very well justified (I'm looking at you Reverent Titan)) rather than the good points of the inclusion of it within the normal game. So, as you can see here, as I'm relying on this data to inform myself of the state of the game. And as you can probably tell, relying on just forums had left a bad taste in my mouth about the game.

However, I went to WHW today, and I left happy with the game. It wasn't all WAAC TAC lists, or anything of the sort. It was a campaign weekend going on, and I saw all the armies people had put out, from mech Guard to Space Marines and Orks, using lists that would be torn apart on sites like these because there isn't 4 Heldrakes, and nicely painted armies. It put me in a better spirit, as for ME , that is what the hobby is about.

And I think that is the important thing. Just because all these rules are out, doesn't mean you have to use them. Of course it would be better if it was a balanced game, but we're stuck with what we've got, and all tournaments have to do is remove parts they don't like. I'm not at all a GW fanboy (well, with the amount of money spent in the past, I might as well be...) and I do see faults with the company, as there are many as with plenty of other company. But, in general, I feel better about the hobby, and I look forwards to getting a job after uni and being able to finally afford some stuff to add to my Space Marines (oh you sweet Fellblade).

Don't look beyond the hobby. If you are looking for a game, look else where. Fluff, models, painting, assembly, and casual fun are what to be found here.

If it can be played with proxies and remain just as enjoyable, then you have a game. What we have here is a hobby. And that is where the fun is to be found.

Spiney Norman
10-03-2014, 11:02
I like how you take the high ground here and go out of your way to avoid trying to make one side look better than the other. Kudos to you for not instigating.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Looks like I'm busted, I can tolerate a good bit of people saying how disappointed they are with their new codex, that's sadly inevitable given the lack of effort GW has been putting into their rules these past few years, but what're ally gets my goat is the people who stalk those threads replying to everything with a sarcastic quip and essentially hang a neon sign on their nose that says "I'm not complaining about the CSM/Tyranid/dwarf book, I must be MATURE".

I think that one thing worse than complaining is complaining about someone else's complaining, there is just no need for it, stating your view is fine, its just not necessary to deride anyone else for thinking something different.

duffybear1988
10-03-2014, 13:58
That's not how you come across at all, Duffy.

Well I am an acquired taste. I apologize if I come across as a raving lunatic half the time.

IcedCrow
10-03-2014, 14:09
Well I am an acquired taste. I apologize if I come across as a raving lunatic half the time.

Thats ok if I'm ever over in the UK sometime I'll post it and we can kill each others' plastic men one afternoon whilst raving like lunatics.

Mister Hat
11-03-2014, 12:30
Nice discussion. It's threads like this that keep me coming back to Warseer, even if I don't post much.

To the OP, I get where you are coming from. Pay too much attention to the WAACers on t'internet and you could be forgiven for thinking this game wasn't about having fun. Get the right opponents and it's bloody marvelous.

Mauler
11-03-2014, 13:45
This is a good thread. Very.

It retains my faith that there are some like-minded people here, often more than I notice, who appreciate that the point of the hobby is to have a laugh with some mates while removing lil' plastic guys from the table without taking it too seriously.

FD_
11-03-2014, 14:25
There is definitely a big difference between the hobby on internet where every one and its dog plays an eldar titan on a skyshield or taudar or whatever-star while arguing endlessly on rules, and the hobby in real life where people actually play cool models in a relax manner. Even the competitive players I've seen tends to be nice guys. There is always this fracking guy, but honestly in my experience it really is a minority.

The hobbyists out there are quite cool. Don't believe the Internet whiners. For most of them, posting on forums is their only involvement in the hobby.

Oakenshield
11-03-2014, 14:25
I am really enjoying the hobby at the moment. I burnt out on it at the end of 3rd Edition and mostly skipped 4th/5th. Playing again with whatever things I fancy and ignoring any online army lists have made games into great stories with lovingly painted models.

Love it.

Kingly
11-03-2014, 18:14
Good for you Oaken, that's what it's all about I think, doesn't stop the game having a tactical draw, but it's not super competitive with egos to boot.

LegioDestructor
12-03-2014, 03:07
Like you, I have been out of the game for quite some time. What began in 2nd Edition only grew in 3rd, and as the armies and editions came and went, life eventually got in the way of plastic soldiers. Yet the interest remained. Over the years I occasionally returned to Portent, and later Warseer, to pique my interest and see what was new. Strangely enough, it feels like now GW is more inviting than ever to me. The background is familiar but new, which bothers some, but at least it's not the same reprinted stuff from the early 90's. The models, with a few exceptions, have never looked better. The game, like a real conflict, is growing in scale (and not just in the fluff). However, unlike you, seeing Titans and Baneblades with regularity is something I'd always wanted. I only enjoy the addition of superheavies, fortifications, and fliers because I never viewed 40k as a skirmish game. There can be only war, after all. Now I just have to focus on not being a terrible painter and I can start playing games.

But, like others have said, it's not what you read online or hear other players bemoan - it's you and your opponent having a fun game, and those games are what you make of them. It all boils down to what you want to do; WAAC tournament settings are for some, but for the more open-minded the sky's the limit. I can see people that regularly allow stand-ins, scratch-builds, or house rules having very strict unit selections for a campaign, but for specific background reasons, for example.

Just because all these rules are out, doesn't mean you have to use them.

the hobby in real life where people actually play cool models in a relax manner.
'nuff said. There are no GW helicopters to descend forcing you to make your army WYSIWYG-compliant, and the internet is not reality. Talk with your opponent and agree on what fun is, and play. Have fun. Period.

Losing Command
12-03-2014, 05:27
Outside of the really silly combinations of armies one can legally the game is still a blast to play most of the times. Yes, it's hard to have fun when you brought a fun army with 70 marines on foot and end up having to play against that guy with heldrakes and noisemarines with blastmasters, but why ragequit over that when you can also end up on a winning streak with your humble vanilla marines against Wraith-spam Eldar :D