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Commissar Merces
10-03-2014, 05:11
I recently had a conversation with one of my mates who told me I should really consider selling my SoB army because GW has made it pretty obvious that they aren't going to support the least selling army. I am starting to feel like holding out for plastics is a fools hope. I have a lot of projects going on right now, and have picked up a few more expensive hobbies along the way. I could certainly use some coin in my pockets, but I've been faithful to sisters the past two years and have really enjoyed using their army.

My biggest fear is holding onto the army, only to have them redone and losing all the resell value.

Is there any hope for the long suffering faithful in the next year to two years?

The Emperor
10-03-2014, 05:15
Nobody really knows, and the signs do look pretty grim.

I'd say hang on to them, though. It'd be worth hanging on to them just for their collectible nature, if nothing else.

Langdon
10-03-2014, 05:15
short answer. No.

Long answer. Things may change.. they havent gone the way of the squats yet, so if they need to flog a dead horse, they can do what they did with GK and DEldar and give them plastics..

will it be in 1-2years? unlikely.

will you feel like an idiot if you sell them for half they are worth, to see them rocket in price in 3+ years? Yes

Sir Didymus
10-03-2014, 05:16
So thought the Dark Eldar, the Tau, the Dark Elves, The Ogre Kingdoms, etc. But they all wound up with new and shiny toys. You're not out, untill you're not available at the GW site anymore - although your rules may not be the best.

AngryAngel
10-03-2014, 05:53
I think there is always hope, but you know what warhammer says about hope I'd imagine. Though I'll admit GW haven't done much to give sisters players hope. I do feel for them and wish them the best sooner or later. I hope, sooner rather then later.

A.T.
10-03-2014, 11:37
Hope - yes.
Anything more than hope - no.

GW will have to make a decision on the line if/when they stop producing metal models. Until then they can just continue to string the sisters players along for as long as the molds last.

T10
10-03-2014, 12:10
With my power of foresight I can tell you that the Sisters of Battle will remain in their current state for the next eight years. Then something wonderful happens.

-T10

Spiney Norman
10-03-2014, 12:10
Personally I think the decision, whatever it is, must have already been made, either they will drop he army lik a hot rock when their stock of existing metals runs out, or they will bring forward a revamped model range. Either way they will have already started work on plastic models if they are going for that option, development of kits like that is not so,ething you rush through in a few weeks.

The only consolation is that even if they stop selling the models, I already have them, and even if they take the icodex down, I already have it, and while it may be the weakest, most one-dimensional codex in production current, its actually not that bad! I'll keep on playing it, and adding the various allied detachments and dataslates I have available to boost its competitivity when I need to.

Inquisitor Shego
10-03-2014, 12:13
Either way though, I bought my Sisters about 4 months ago because I wanted a piece of history as much as a piece of the future. I've loved the Ecclesiarchy since Soulstorm, and my Order of the Sacred Rose know that in times of strife, all you need are flamers, bolters, meltaguns, and a confessor that sounds like Morgan Freeman to get you through the day.

Poseidal
10-03-2014, 12:34
With my power of foresight I can tell you that the Sisters of Battle will remain in their current state for the next eight years. Then something wonderful happens.

-T10

GW is bought out by another company?

hobojebus
10-03-2014, 12:49
I'd say no given that shego has just bought SoB of a friend of ours it's bound to get squated any day now, this forum runs of our tears after all :p

Let's look at the prices of their blisters for example, those are not new minis they've sat on shelves years now yet the price keeps going up which defies all business sense, if you have old stock that's not moving you reduce the price to make room for other stock.

But reducing the price might encourage more people to buy which would increase demand for the army to be reworked with a proper codex and new models.

With two poor codexs in a row and no new models in what ten years I just don't see them taking the chance given the recent bad financial results.

It's a shame I like sisters even though I never collected them due to price, if they got plastics I'd do a small allies force.

Smooth Boy
10-03-2014, 13:00
I'm sure someone always asks Jervis at Gamesday and every year he says GW won't Squat another army simply because people never forget and hound them. I agree with Spiney Norman, GW hates metal now and since we're actually looking close to every book being updated I think in the next few years we'll know what's happening. I think they may get rolled into another codex. I would hang onto your army OP, over the years I've always regretted the armies I've sold, you never get your money back in terms of the effort taken to paint them.

Borgomos
10-03-2014, 13:06
If Raging Heroes can deliver anything close to their concept drawing in their future kickstarter "Not-Sisters-At-All" army, I may invest more time to Sororitas.

Till then, back to converting AdMech and Inqusition...

T10
10-03-2014, 14:22
GW is bought out by another company?

Yes, Dave. One that makes chairs instead of wonderful minis.

-T10

Wesser
10-03-2014, 15:05
Next edition of Warhammer 40k is strongly rumoured.... There's what 6 or so codex to update in and around that release... so I'm thinking no... SoB is only slightly more likely than Dogs of War to get a book...and since they'd pretty much have to take their model range from scratch there's a Whole slew of alien races such as Hrud, Loxatl, Khrave or Scythians I'd like way more than the sub-Space marine like sisters. To each his own huh?


The real issue is that Sisters like Bretonnia got some real interesting miniatures going on, but doesn't have a Whole lot of uniqueness to their army as a whole. It's an identity crisis and likely GW feels Sisters are just leeching Space Marine players

AndrewGPaul
10-03-2014, 15:12
You already have the army, and there's a Codex available. If the army is in a "finished" state and you enjoy using them, why not keep them? Conversely, if you need the money more than the toys, then "support" is rather irrelevant too, I would have thought.

Minsc
10-03-2014, 15:25
We have a SoB-player in my gamingcircle. He seems to enjoy them somewhat, although he's pretty annoyed that his 9 penitent engines became worthless.
"Back to three exorcists I guess...".

A.T.
10-03-2014, 15:40
...but doesn't have a Whole lot of uniqueness to their army as a whole.Three causes really:
1) repeated crowbaring - their list just keeps getting smaller

2) 'borrowing' of their unique selling points (and the sisters often losing them in the process) - i.e. sisters losing divine guidance in the WD dex and the eldar gaining an improved version of it as an army-wide rule a few months later.

3) lack of support - the ecclesiarchy is not a mined-out idea like marines, GW don't need to do a dark angels and start scraping the barrel for things to put in their codex. There just hasn't been any effort put in to expanding the theme.

Seriously, where are the church tanks and giant flaming ballistae? The hordes of frothing zealots carrying a deacon or ancient relic on a palanquin? The absurdly overdressed cardinal guard, priestly delegations, or the esoteric minor orders? The etheric avenging angels, the immaculate saints, the ranks of the faithful and penitent with their flowing banners, peculiar relics, and highly impractical ceremonial gear?

It's an absolute gold mine of ideas, but so far every excursion into the interesting units has either been half-hearted (church organ missile predator) or blessed with rules of utter suck (lunatics with chainswords and giant killer robots with people nailed to the front).

All Cing Eye
10-03-2014, 17:17
Seriously, where are the church tanks and giant flaming ballistae? The hordes of frothing zealots carrying a deacon or ancient relic on a palanquin? The absurdly overdressed cardinal guard, priestly delegations, or the esoteric minor orders? The etheric avenging angels, the immaculate saints, the ranks of the faithful and penitent with their flowing banners, peculiar relics, and highly impractical ceremonial gear?

It's an absolute gold mine of ideas, but so far every excursion into the interesting units has either been half-hearted (church organ missile predator) or blessed with rules of utter suck (lunatics with chainswords and giant killer robots with people nailed to the front).

^ This

I feel a Sisters only codex is out of the question, but I feel GW will at some point release an Ecclesiarchy Codex. It'd be a great place for SoB, Priests, Missionaries, Penitents, Frateris Militia, Death Cult Assasins, Arbites, and other crazy stuff.

VikingThor
10-03-2014, 18:18
I think the Codex Ecclesiarchy is probably the most likely way they can still get a few $$$ out of us for an army they don't plan on having much support for.

Spiney Norman
10-03-2014, 18:29
Seriously, where are the church tanks and giant flaming ballistae? The hordes of frothing zealots carrying a deacon or ancient relic on a palanquin? The absurdly overdressed cardinal guard, priestly delegations, or the esoteric minor orders? The etheric avenging angels, the immaculate saints, the ranks of the faithful and penitent with their flowing banners, peculiar relics, and highly impractical ceremonial gear?

It's an absolute gold mine of ideas, but so far every excursion into the interesting units has either been half-hearted (church organ missile predator) or blessed with rules of utter suck (lunatics with chainswords and giant killer robots with people nailed to the front).

If we the customer base had the ability to elect people to the design team, I would be your campaign manager for free.

duffybear1988
10-03-2014, 19:19
I would hold on to them. I have a feeling that 7th edition is going to suck so badly that people will go back to playing the older editions again.

Spiney Norman
10-03-2014, 19:30
I would hold on to them. I have a feeling that 7th edition is going to suck so badly that people will go back to playing the older editions again.

Ohhhh, 3rd Ed beckons, welcome back codex witch hunters

Lord Damocles
10-03-2014, 19:49
If GW wanted to squat Sisters, they'd have done it already - not maintained an (almost) all metal product line and released a Codex.

Menthak
10-03-2014, 19:54
No. WFTWG.

duffybear1988
10-03-2014, 20:06
Ohhhh, 3rd Ed beckons, welcome back codex witch hunters

4th edition dude - then we get the sweet missions.

Commissar Merces
10-03-2014, 20:08
I still have my codex witch hunter book… what I wouldn't give to play that over what we have now...

Novrain
10-03-2014, 20:37
I play using the Witch Hunter book now among my circle of friends

It works surprisingly easily

Minsc
10-03-2014, 21:25
I still have my codex witch hunter book… what I wouldn't give to play that over what we have now...

Now you know how 90% of the CSM-community feels about their current codex and 3,5. ;)

Chem-Dog
10-03-2014, 21:31
I say keep 'em. When they get redone, you can hit the ground running with an army whilst everyone else is donating a kidney to afford theirs ;). If, when they come out, you hate the new models, you're set, if you love the new models someone else is sure not to, sell them on and modernise your collection.


where are the church tanks and giant flaming ballistae? The hordes of frothing zealots carrying a deacon or ancient relic on a palanquin? The absurdly overdressed cardinal guard, priestly delegations, or the esoteric minor orders? The etheric avenging angels, the immaculate saints, the ranks of the faithful and penitent with their flowing banners, peculiar relics, and highly impractical ceremonial gear?


:y: And that's just scratching the surface!



Ohhhh, 3rd Ed beckons, welcome back codex witch hunters

Man up and play 2nd Ed :p

Nkari
10-03-2014, 21:33
Hope is the first step towards dissapointment.

Wolf Lord Balrog
10-03-2014, 21:41
Either way though, I bought my Sisters about 4 months ago because I wanted a piece of history as much as a piece of the future. I've loved the Ecclesiarchy since Soulstorm, and my Order of the Sacred Rose know that in times of strife, all you need are flamers, bolters, meltaguns, and a confessor that sounds like Morgan Freeman to get you through the day.

<Confessor Freeman voice> "Get busy flamin' or get busy dyin'!!" :D

tiger g
10-03-2014, 21:50
Get rid of them now as you keep questioning what you should keep. Then you can start posts about how you regret you got rid of them and could have used the new codex with the scions to support them or a special imperial knight or some new allied formation. Use them as a secondary group. You have choices with them now yet you bring up this question again.

RanaldLoec
10-03-2014, 22:00
There is hope in Faith, Faith in the God Emperor of Mankind.

Wesser
11-03-2014, 08:20
Seriously, where are the church tanks and giant flaming ballistae? The hordes of frothing zealots carrying a deacon or ancient relic on a palanquin? The absurdly overdressed cardinal guard, priestly delegations, or the esoteric minor orders? The etheric avenging angels, the immaculate saints, the ranks of the faithful and penitent with their flowing banners, peculiar relics, and highly impractical ceremonial gear?

It's an absolute gold mine of ideas, but so far every excursion into the interesting units has either been half-hearted (church organ missile predator) or blessed with rules of utter suck (lunatics with chainswords and giant killer robots with people nailed to the front).

Probably because the Whole idea is just as silly as squats were.... I mean most of the old Codex looks and feels like something that should be in a Word Bearers army rather than an Imperial, and the Sisters themselves always looked more than GW obliging to a Feminist Equality protest than anything else.

SoB ain't a gold mine as much as it is trash can of silly stuff and concepts that didn't fit anywhere else such as priests or Arco-Flagellants.

Menthak
11-03-2014, 08:24
Probably because the Whole idea is just as silly as squats were.... I mean most of the old Codex looks and feels like something that should be in a Word Bearers army rather than an Imperial, and the Sisters themselves always looked more than GW obliging to a Feminist Equality protest than anything else.

SoB ain't a gold mine as much as it is trash can of silly stuff and concepts that didn't fit anywhere else such as priests or Arco-Flagellants.

A brave statement.

But people have differing opinions, I quite like the sisters for multiple reasons, they're the army of the 'new' Imperium as opposed to the army of the old Imperium and the Astartes.

MaliceXR3
11-03-2014, 11:09
I would hold on to them. I have a feeling that 7th edition is going to suck so badly that people will go back to playing the older editions again.

3rd, 4th either way I get a Necron codex with background that doesn't read like a soap opera written by an amateur dramatics group on an acid trip

I call that win win with a bottle of gin

A.T.
11-03-2014, 11:15
I mean most of the old Codex looks and feels like something that should be in a Word Bearers army rather than an ImperialThe ecclesiarchy and its dogma and religious idiocy is one of the main foundations of 40k humanity, it's omnipresent in the worship of the god Emperor and the blind obedience and superstition that defines the setting.
40k humanity without the ecclesiarchy is like eldar without aspects, or chaos without daemons, or orks without dakka.

As for the Word Bearers - that's kind of the point. You know, irony and all that.

Spiney Norman
11-03-2014, 12:17
Man up and play 2nd Ed :p

Not wishing to make a point by this, but I was still in primary school when 2nd Edition passed out of use ;)

DoctorTom
11-03-2014, 16:26
If GW wanted to squat Sisters, they'd have done it already - not maintained an (almost) all metal product line and released a Codex.

Unless they're just trying to sell the metal models they've made and plan to squat the army after they've sold them.


Still, with the minidexes coming out there's hope. Maybe we'll get the assassins codex. It looks like we'll have the stormtroopers codex. Enough of these minicodexes and the Sisters might get a proper army again. Maybe they'll give us Codex: Penitent Engine (or upscale it with a new model and have Codex: Penitent Knight).

Spiney Norman
11-03-2014, 16:36
Unless they're just trying to sell the metal models they've made and plan to squat the army after they've sold them.


Still, with the minidexes coming out there's hope. Maybe we'll get the assassins codex. It looks like we'll have the stormtroopers codex. Enough of these minicodexes and the Sisters might get a proper army again. Maybe they'll give us Codex: Penitent Engine (or upscale it with a new model and have Codex: Penitent Knight).

Knights have already been done though, I'm hoping for 'Penitent Titan'

DoctorTom
11-03-2014, 16:58
Assassin Knights haven't been done yet, though. :eek:

Chem-Dog
11-03-2014, 17:17
the Sisters themselves always looked more than GW obliging to a Feminist Equality protest than anything else

I find this thinking puzzling. But then I think a lot of people misunderstand Feminism. Equality doesn't mean numerical equivalence. It's the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities. 40K generally does quite well to satisfy that criteria.


SoB ain't a gold mine as much as it is trash can of silly stuff and concepts that didn't fit anywhere else such as priests or Arco-Flagellants.

The Ecclesiarchy is a rich vein that has yet to be fully tapped, admittedly the current list is angled more towards satisfying the requirements of an army list with available models but just because it isn't currently a well-formed whole doesn't mean it can't be done.


Not wishing to make a point by this, but I was still in primary school when 2nd Edition passed out of use ;)

*feels old*

Tzen
11-03-2014, 17:47
In a similar way they re did the whole of the Dark Eldar, I think the sisters will follow suit. Complete re write and lots of new miniatures to completely replace the existing metal ones. It's not something they will want to do piece meal, due to certain companies rocking up and producing models to fill in the gaps of the range.

I'm fairly confident they will get re done, and when it happens they will at least look bitchin! (sorry - bad term :P).

Will take a while though.

Kingly
11-03-2014, 18:11
Mmm, I think we have a long while to wait before we see Sisters, if ever. How well did they sell? Anyone with any figures?

THey could make an awesome rerelease included in a box set, but would GW be brave enough to have them as a key army in a box set…?

murgel2006
11-03-2014, 18:25
In a similar way they re did the whole of the Dark Eldar, I think the sisters will follow suit. Complete re write and lots of new miniatures to completely replace the existing metal ones. It's not something they will want to do piece meal, due to certain companies rocking up and producing models to fill in the gaps of the range.

I'm fairly confident they will get re done, and when it happens they will at least look bitchin! (sorry - bad term :P).

Will take a while though.

If they make a new range and codex at the quality of the DE one, I will do the same I did with the DE - buy them!
The current models are nice and I own quite a few but not a working army. A new great model range will most likely have "take my money" all over it...

All Cing Eye
11-03-2014, 18:40
With GW new release schedule and digital codex, supplements, etc. it increases the possibilty of seeing SoB models sooner than later IMO.

GW no longer needs to redo an entire range before releasing a Codex, like with the DE.

Instead they could release a single plastic box of a SoB squad and release a digital codex, like the LotD and the Knights. From there they can add new entries whenever they feel like it, say Seraphim, Immolators, etc. as Data Slates or Supplements. Then after a few years you have a fully formed Codex that can be printed and sold for a complete army.

hobojebus
11-03-2014, 20:15
With GW new release schedule and digital codex, supplements, etc. it increases the possibilty of seeing SoB models sooner than later IMO.

GW no longer needs to redo an entire range before releasing a Codex, like with the DE.

Instead they could release a single plastic box of a SoB squad and release a digital codex, like the LotD and the Knights. From there they can add new entries whenever they feel like it, say Seraphim, Immolators, etc. as Data Slates or Supplements. Then after a few years you have a fully formed Codex that can be printed and sold for a complete army.

And they might of done just that if not for the pounding their share holders took, but when in a year you release a new space marines book you lose money it makes it far less likely you'll see them experiment with an old army.

They lost 20% of warhammer sales and so are reacting to that by putting focus on 40k, thats not the actions of a company thats feeling super secure, if anything i expect the amount of experimental things to slow down as they'll want a sure thing like the knights.

Bare in mind they've already done away with specialist games, they could still squat the sisters and say they were not selling, of course they'll miss out the bit where they were over priced and didnt sell because £50 for a single squad is ********.

tiger g
11-03-2014, 20:37
With all of the new releases I might be buying less. Got the knights book and the was going to buy a knight and the crimson slaughter book to maybe use my DV figures. But with imperial guard coming out (my main army) all purchases are stopped to add to that army. If true orks are coming that would be my next purchase. In the past would have bought all at the slower rate of release but with so many items coming out I get have reallocate where to spend.

(Does not help being just a little older and wiser knowing I will never paint every thing. actually have assembled 90 percent of what I have and put the assembled items in different army boxes ready to paint. I for some reason cannot play with unpainted figures so at least my painting table is less cluttered and I am getting a lot more done as I am trying to keep the distractions to a minimum of what to paint.).

Menthak
11-03-2014, 21:05
In a similar way they re did the whole of the Dark Eldar, I think the sisters will follow suit. Complete re write and lots of new miniatures to completely replace the existing metal ones. It's not something they will want to do piece meal, due to certain companies rocking up and producing models to fill in the gaps of the range.

I'm fairly confident they will get re done, and when it happens they will at least look bitchin! (sorry - bad term :P).

Will take a while though.

Haha!

...

Oh wait you're serious.

duffybear1988
11-03-2014, 22:15
With all these dataslates and ebooks and such there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't put out a few updated units to test the water and get some feedback.

The SoB ecodex was a failure and everyone knows it. This could be fixed at any time by just updating the file so people can download the new one. They don't even playtest anymore and they admit that they just write the rules for fun so why they don't just write some good fun rules for SoB is beyond me. Instead we get this overpriced sterile crap every time.

Gobskrag 'Eadbasha
11-03-2014, 23:17
IIRC, the pie-man said he spotted some sisters sculpts some time ago, but nothing ever came of them. That at least implies they were being worked on to some degree. My guess is they're trying to sell off their metal stock at a pace slow enough to finish the new models.

The bearded one
12-03-2014, 00:46
The new dwarfs were lying in a warehouse since 2012. It's not inconceivable they are being worked on or partially ready (I heard old rumours, maybe Harry's rumours, about plastic sisters with detailing like veils, high heels and laces) but GW just wants to get rid of their metal stockpile first.

Ruination Drinker
12-03-2014, 00:59
Re: Sisters… is there any hope?


I hope not. The specialist games need attention like Blood Bowl, BF Gothic, Mordy, and Necromunda. An official redux of Warhammer Quest would be Baal's frickin amazing since you can't get that game on eBay for less than $300. Space Crusade needs another go around. Okay, we can leave Gorka Morka to rot, but hey, maybe they'll re-release Oy! Dat's Me Leg! I loved the cassette that game came with!

nosebiter
12-03-2014, 01:01
Hope in 40k? Not likely....

With the release schedule being as muddled as it is currently, it is very hard to speculate about.

They need to be mind blowingly gorgeous miniatures, if they will compete for my money with the Raging Heroes one that are on the way.

nosebiter
12-03-2014, 01:03
With GW new release schedule and digital codex, supplements, etc. it increases the possibilty of seeing SoB models sooner than later IMO.

GW no longer needs to redo an entire range before releasing a Codex, like with the DE.

Instead they could release a single plastic box of a SoB squad and release a digital codex, like the LotD and the Knights. From there they can add new entries whenever they feel like it, say Seraphim, Immolators, etc. as Data Slates or Supplements. Then after a few years you have a fully formed Codex that can be printed and sold for a complete army.


And you would end up paying 2-3 times the price of the regular codex, if not more, when buying all that.

Spiney Norman
12-03-2014, 01:18
The new dwarfs were lying in a warehouse since 2012. It's not inconceivable they are being worked on or partially ready (I heard old rumours, maybe Harry's rumours, about plastic sisters with detailing like veils, high heels and laces) but GW just wants to get rid of their metal stockpile first.

If that was true they're not making it easy, for some reason the sisters metals have been hiked up to a far more expensive price point per model than most other metals, and even failcast model. If they actually wanted to get rid of thei I think they would have kept the price down at he same level as everything else or at the very least produced competitive rules so that players actually wanted to buy them. As things stand it looks like they're trying pretty hard not to sell any more of the SoB metals.

The bearded one
12-03-2014, 04:49
Or -sceptical mode- they're trying to squeeze as much money out of the stockpile as they can, and quickly had someone bash out a codex to tide them over. Who wrote it again, Cruddace?

Chem-Dog
12-03-2014, 05:10
GW just wants to get rid of their metal stockpile first.

Seen this said a few times in various places. I remember when they made the jump from lead to tin, they simply took back all of the metal stock and sold it on, could they have not done that in this instance? (genuine inquiry, not rhetorical).

underhivetrader
12-03-2014, 05:17
Hate to say it, but its looking more and more like this army has been given the squat treatment. Its been what? Fifteen years since a new model or mini?

Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2

ehlijen
12-03-2014, 06:38
Hate to say it, but its looking more and more like this army has been given the squat treatment. Its been what? Fifteen years since a new model or mini?

Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2

Less than that. The 3rd ed witchunger codex (2002? 2003?) came with a few new releases like the plastic immolator and the metal exorcist. I think they also renewed at least some of the character models at the time.

Still, 10-12 years is still bad.

But sisters sales were bad before finecast came, and even underwhelming before metal prices skyrocketed. They weren't going to get better with finecast and odds are not looking in their favour for a plastic success of the magnitude needed in order to justify revamping the line. Throw in rumous about difficulties in translating the sculpts into plastic casting compatible components (too many undercuts and seam details on the metals I'm told) and yeah, don't expect them back any time soon.

Pity :(

They're not dead till GW stops selling the codex though.

Charistoph
12-03-2014, 07:16
Less than that. The 3rd ed witchunger codex (2002? 2003?) came with a few new releases like the plastic immolator and the metal exorcist. I think they also renewed at least some of the character models at the time.

Still, 10-12 years is still bad.

Hate to say it, but Dark Eldar were in pretty much the same position. Heck, if they didn't put the name on the back of other codices, had a reference on the website, or have obscure references in the other codex's timelines, I wouldn't have known about them before Dawn of War: Soulstorm.


But sisters sales were bad before finecast came, and even underwhelming before metal prices skyrocketed. They weren't going to get better with finecast and odds are not looking in their favour for a plastic success of the magnitude needed in order to justify revamping the line. Throw in rumous about difficulties in translating the sculpts into plastic casting compatible components (too many undercuts and seam details on the metals I'm told) and yeah, don't expect them back any time soon.

Those are some of the rumors. But we'll see how it goes. They just need an inspired artist to sculpt them... :shifty:

Okay, they're doomed. :skull:


Pity :(

Indeed. They would have been my first 40K army, if they didn't cost 4 times as much to field a unit the same point size as a Marine Tactical Squad, and that was when they came in boxes!

T10
12-03-2014, 08:33
Incidentally, they were my first WH40k army back in 98-99.

These days I'm stripping the old paint and prepping them for a new coat.

-T10

AndrewGPaul
12-03-2014, 09:46
Unless they're just trying to sell the metal models they've made and plan to squat the army after they've sold them.

Because clearly that's a much more sensible way of doing it than just throwing what stocks they may have on hand back into the melting pot. :)

I had 1500 points or so in 2nd edition - three squads, a Seraphim squad and a Canoness with Seraphim bodyguard, all with jump packs, and an Immolator. Then came the Wicth Hunters book which upped the minimum squad size from six to ten and got rid of the jump pack option on command squads. They did away with the bits service, so I couldn't even order replacement backpacks for the command squad. I sold them on a few years ago, all except the original box set of six which kicked the whole thing off all those years ago. I ordered a Sister Hospitaller and a Sister Dialogus recently because I like the models, so I'll probably do a Temple Honour Guard Kill Team or something with them.

ehlijen
12-03-2014, 10:29
Because clearly that's a much more sensible way of doing it than just throwing what stocks they may have on hand back into the melting pot. :)

It is when they don't cast metal anymore.

AndrewGPaul
12-03-2014, 10:45
So sell it, like was rumoured a few weeks ago. :) I just don't think it makes sense to go to the effort involved - for the writers, layout, IT people, submitting the file to Apple, etc - to get rid of stock like that. To me, it seems as realistic as the "they published a "bad" Codex deliberately, to put people off the army so they can scrap it" conspiracy theories.

In any case, are we sure they're not making new casts?

The Emperor
12-03-2014, 10:56
The effort of making an iBook, though, isn't anywhere near the effort of making a physical book. They probably pounded that thing out in a week or less with only had a handful of people working on it.

AndrewGPaul
12-03-2014, 11:01
The only difference is that the iBook doesn't go to a printer.

You still need the same sort of proofreading, layout (posibly more, given that they're displayed in different aspect ratios and resolutions), art direction and the like.

Still, a week's work for "a handful of people" is still a significant amount of work just to clear some discontinued models out of a warehouse, if that was DoctorTom's argument.

A.T.
12-03-2014, 11:16
Less than that. The 3rd ed witchunger codex (2002? 2003?) came with a few new releases like the plastic immolator and the metal exorcist. I think they also renewed at least some of the character models at the time.2003, they replaced the canoness. They also released 5 repentia, 6 new sisters, 5 head/arm swaps, and celestine.
The hospitaller and dialogus models also came out in 2003 as inquisition retinue models, and the frateris were dropped.

Over the past couple of years the sisters have lost 9 models - 3 priests, 4 seraphim, the forgeworld immolator, and most recently the small metal shrine model (which vanished in the last couple of weeks).

There are a total of 35 sisters of battle figures left in the range, plus priests and vehicles:
7 characters, 7 bolter poses, 9 special/heavy weapon poses, 5 repentia, 3 seraphim, 2 banners, the hospitaller, and the dialogus.



Still, a week's work for "a handful of people" is still a significant amount of workThe material was mostly pulled from other sources and dropped into a standard template. I personally rewrote the whole thing into printable form (properly formatted as a codex) and it only took me a couple of lunch hours. If they had more than a couple of people on it for a day or two then they were dragging their feet.
40 pages long as a print dex, including a cover, a lot of big images and tons of white space.

AndrewGPaul
12-03-2014, 11:21
Redemptor Kyrinov has wandered off, too. As has the original Canoness with combi-flamer and the bare-headed standard bearer with the bare flagpole.

duffybear1988
12-03-2014, 12:09
The effort of making an iBook, though, isn't anywhere near the effort of making a physical book. They probably pounded that thing out in a week or less with only had a handful of people working on it.

I do similar tasks all the time as part of my job. Any skilled technician could get the AS eCodex done in a couple of hours tops. Considering that the entire codex plays like it's never really been tested I guess it took them no longer than a couple of days to churn that out. Most of the fluff was pre-written and all the images are just taken from elsewhere.

Whack a huge price tag on it and bingo, job done...

AndrewGPaul
12-03-2014, 12:35
What, you publish wargaming supplements? Which ones?

Is all the art recycled? I admit there were plenty of pieces I didn't recognise. It's be nice to know where they came from. Some of the "character" pieces look like they're from FFG RPG books, but the chapter heading pictures look like the newer style, not from Codex: Witch Hunters. The background text looks to be new, too, not a direct lift from the old book.

Yes, Codex: Adepta Sororitas is a smaller project than Codex: Space Marines or whatever, but I don't think "It's digitial, so two blokes knocked it out in a week" is accurate. There will have been some testing to try out ideas, if nothing else.

Crimson Reaver
12-03-2014, 13:14
As someone who has played Sisters (and only really Sisters, not all that interested in the Priests, Battle Conclaves etc) since 2nd Edition, the problem GW have always had, and will continue to have until they go back to the drawing board on this, is where do the Sisters fit in with the modern game meta.

Currently, they are almost as expensive as Marines, with fewer options, and little ability to influence a game at long range or in close combat. Back in 3rd/4th Edition, there was a nice sweet spot where if you got them up close, used your Faith sensibly and got your target priorities right, you could have a turn or so where you'd cripple the enemy's ability to fight back, but you'd have to get to them and take casualties first, and then repel the counter-attack afterwards. It made for some tight games, but it was a lot of fun.

Quite how GW replicates that, I'm not really sure, as the game has evolved significantly from that point back in 2003/4. In the fluff, their reliance on the Imperial Navy to get anywhere also seems to limit what they can have that would be unique in terms of flyers/drop capability, but they also lost access to Land Raiders and the Repressor doesn't really do very much to make it both unique and usable. Flamer Immolators are pretty pointless, which is a massive shame as well.

So you need to add options which make sense in a fluff context, but that flesh out the roster properly, and to do so in a way that leaves them cheaper than Marines but worse, and better than Guard but more expensive, so how do you price getting BS4, LD8, Power Armour and Boltgun? I'd be looking at 10pts per model, maybe 11pts, before adding limited situational bonuses using some form of Faith mechanic for variety and short boosts to their hitting power/survivability. I'd personally like to see a list of Faith abilities which get chosen pre-game, and activated on a dice roll as it works currently. Taking a tip from D&D, allowing the unit to keep making Faith tests each turn until the ability works would be a good way of keeping an element of risk without that horrible sinking feeling of having one chance to use the power and flubbing the dice roll.

Just a few thoughts on my end, but it is a really tough job, so I'd rather see GW take some time to think about it, rather than put out yet another underwhelming attempt.

A.T.
12-03-2014, 13:14
Is all the art recycled? I admit there were plenty of pieces I didn't recognise.The title image is new - it was outsourced to an independent artist (I stumbled across their webpage and the original image while searching for rumours before the ebooks release). Most of the other images are from the Fantasy Flight range of RPGs or from older GW material (such as the image from the old daemonifuge comic).

The page header and stat boxes are new and would have almost certainly been made by the digital editions people. The same is true of the deployment images.

Even the rules were rewritten by Cruddace rather than the ebook people - if it took them 80 man hours (two blokes for a week) i'd love to know what they were doing for the other 79.

duffybear1988
12-03-2014, 13:40
What, you publish wargaming supplements? Which ones?

Is all the art recycled? I admit there were plenty of pieces I didn't recognise. It's be nice to know where they came from. Some of the "character" pieces look like they're from FFG RPG books, but the chapter heading pictures look like the newer style, not from Codex: Witch Hunters. The background text looks to be new, too, not a direct lift from the old book.

Yes, Codex: Adepta Sororitas is a smaller project than Codex: Space Marines or whatever, but I don't think "It's digitial, so two blokes knocked it out in a week" is accurate. There will have been some testing to try out ideas, if nothing else.

I don't publish wargames stuff but I do design and create ebooks all the time - it isn't hard and any trained chimp could do it with the right incentive :D. Guess that makes me a monkey.


The title image is new - it was outsourced to an independent artist (I stumbled across their webpage and the original image while searching for rumours before the ebooks release). Most of the other images are from the Fantasy Flight range of RPGs or from older GW material (such as the image from the old daemonifuge comic).

The page header and stat boxes are new and would have almost certainly been made by the digital editions people. The same is true of the deployment images.

Even the rules were rewritten by Cruddace rather than the ebook people - if it took them 80 man hours (two blokes for a week) i'd love to know what they were doing for the other 79.

This. The rules are so bland and boring that it's almost like they couldn't be bothered to spice them up at all as it would mean they actually had to do some play testing. Does that make sense?

Crimson Reaver
12-03-2014, 13:44
With all these dataslates and ebooks and such there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't put out a few updated units to test the water and get some feedback.

The SoB ecodex was a failure and everyone knows it. This could be fixed at any time by just updating the file so people can download the new one. They don't even playtest anymore and they admit that they just write the rules for fun so why they don't just write some good fun rules for SoB is beyond me. Instead we get this overpriced sterile crap every time.


I do similar tasks all the time as part of my job. Any skilled technician could get the AS eCodex done in a couple of hours tops. Considering that the entire codex plays like it's never really been tested I guess it took them no longer than a couple of days to churn that out. Most of the fluff was pre-written and all the images are just taken from elsewhere.

Whack a huge price tag on it and bingo, job done...

Given what I've posted above, I think I've been pretty clear in my assertion that GW needs to do a lot of work to improve any future release, but I'm not sure what you're driving at here.

When you talk about updated units for feedback purposes, are you talking about:

a) New rules for current units?
b) New models with new units?
c) Existing models packaged into new units?

Given the Sisters are such a niche army anyway and have an established core unit selection and low number of available models, all 3 of those options have big issues, and new models won't be happening until the core models are replaced with Plastic/Finecast because it makes no sense to add new models with experimental rules to an army that isn't in wide enough circulation due to other, easier to fix issues.

Also, how do you determine whether the Codex was a failure? Personally, I got exactly what I expected, a 6th Edition compatible set of rules to allow me to use all of my existing models with the current iteration of the game. I got Warlord traits and a few other things, plus an armylist which ironed out the bugs from the White Dwarf list. To me, that looks like an appropriate evolution of the list, and either they did more internal testing or listened to feedback and made a better product as a result. Is it perfect, by no means, but Sisters have never been a top tier army, they've always been a list that doesn't quite work as a fully fleshed out 40K force. In the circumstances, without carrying out a complete overhaul of the army (see my comments above) GW were never going to produce something so awesome that it could overcome the limited range of models available.

However, at least now they can ally with Knights, use Forgeworld stuff such as air support from the Imperial Navy, and ally with Inquisitors to add back in a few of the things which were lost from the old Codex. By no means are they in a terrible place. Sure the Codex itself was expensive, but that's GW, and in reality they are marketing the product to a small dedicated audience who will think nothing of making the purchase as it will be the only thing they need for what probably will be a lovingly assembled collection of models dating back years. New players have my respect for buying a pricey eBook and then shelling out an arm and a leg for the models!

I'd be interested to get your thoughts, I don't think things are as bleak as you portray, but neither is everything rosy, the dribble of support does wear thin after all this time.

Commissar Merces
12-03-2014, 13:48
Ultimately, I think I know my answer. I can't afford to miss the resale market, and I keep hearing sisters will get redone someday (just not anytime soon).

I think I'll sell the bare minimum to keep them as allies, while keeping all the important stuff (immolators, celestine, exorcists etc) for when their release finally happens.

Crazy thing, I am not even the only sisters player in my area. We have three. Granted all of us have other armies and projects, but that doesn't even really make me feel unique.

Maybe I am going about this all the wrong way though. Sisters are really awesome models, and while they don't have great rules, I am really happy with the army that I have (but it needs paint). I also have a small detachment of grey knight terminators and a few inquisitors to go along with them. If I am going to start piecemealing anything I should probably start with those grey knights.

drbored
12-03-2014, 15:34
There's a few things I'd like to point out... Maybe they'll be enlightening.

1. As has been said, GW is getting out of metal. Sisters of Battle are probably the only things they're casting in metal any more, and that's probably to use up the molds that they have.
2. One-off models, like the aforementioned cannoness and standard bearer, are one-mold things. After the mold degraded or broke, there was absolutely no sense in making a new one for an old metal model that had no demand.
3. The fact that GW bothered to make a digital edition of the Codex at all is actually a good sign. Yes, it may feel like you're being strung along, but they're keeping Sisters up to date so they don't ostracize the players that they currently have, and lose them to some competitor. It seems to me that the Sisters players that still exist are very loyal to that army. I know one guy at my FLGS that has bought enough Sisters of Battle to fill out every single conceivable option in the Codex. In other words, if you took one of everything and made a 10,000 point list out of it, he'd have the models for it.

Now, there's something else to consider. GW has already proven that updating older models to plastic is super successful. They proved it once with Dark Eldar and again with Grey Knights. Interest spiked, people loved the new models and factions, and they brought a lot of players into the fold with those armies. GW has business proof now that updating an old army works, but even with that proof, they have to plan accordingly.

They need to build capital for a release like that. Their financials weren't great, but they weren't horrible either. The releases they've been doing are capital-building though. The move to data-slates and supplements and mini-dexes all push for the sale of models, which helps them build up their cash reserves. Once they feel comfortable, they'll be able to invest in another big project and do away with all this excess metal stock altogether.

A final thing to consider is that the opportunity to re-release Sisters as something big and new is too juicy of an opportunity. If GW doesn't know that there are players that want this, they're completely and utterly blind, and no company is *that* blind. GW knows that plastic is what sells. Not metal, not finecast. Plastic. They know they can charge a lot for plastic (look at the prices these days) and they know that people will keep coming back for more as Codices get updated.

Now imagine, a whole new look for Sisters just like they did for Dark Eldar. Talk about an opportunity to attract a lot of new players! It's not just an updated army, it's not just a supplement, it's like a whole new faction! Whether it's Codex: Sisters of Battle, or Codex: Ecclesiarchy, the opportunities for new options are massive for GW, and my thinking is that they know that.

The trouble? Well, if you've taken a business class, you may be familiar with SWOT...

Strengths: A whole new army to draw in new players, a whole new faction with a new aesthetic and opportunities for new dynamics in the game, and more options that they've already said they want to push.
Weaknesses: Risk, risk, risk. There's no guarantee the army will do well, that people will like it, that people wont get up in arms about the sexism of Sisters of Battle miniatures. Depending on the models, the whole thing could be a huge flop where GW can't afford a huge flop.
Opportunities: Appealing to a new audience is a huge thing for GW. An all-female army is nearly impossible to do (almost possible with Dark Eldar), and there are all sorts of opportunities for the church-theme, new fluff, and new ideas to fill in more of the 40k lore, which, as we know, is important to Forging that Narrative.
Threats: Other companies are filling in the empty holes. Raging Heroes is making lots of attractive female models, some of which are looking a lot like battle nuns. There are other factions in whole other games that could fill in that sweet spot for battle women faster. Their own playerbase is a threat. If GW lets Sisters players down, they'll be losing a chunk of their game base, because you won't just be losing Sisters Players, you'll be losing players that play IG, Space Marines, and whatever else they might buy normally.

All business signs point to: Yes, but it will take some time.

tiger g
12-03-2014, 15:56
Ultimately, I think I know my answer. I can't afford to miss the resale market, and I keep hearing sisters will get redone someday (just not anytime soon).

I think I'll sell the bare minimum to keep them as allies, while keeping all the important stuff (immolators, celestine, exorcists etc) for when their release finally happens.

Crazy thing, I am not even the only sisters player in my area. We have three. Granted all of us have other armies and projects, but that doesn't even really make me feel unique.

Maybe I am going about this all the wrong way though. Sisters are really awesome models, and while they don't have great rules, I am really happy with the army that I have (but it needs paint). I also have a small detachment of grey knight terminators and a few inquisitors to go along with them. If I am going to start piecemealing anything I should probably start with those grey knights.

Miss the resale market? how much is the resale market for the squats with no army now. Do not know what you are going to miss. If you need the cash then that is a different story. I have regretted the sale of miniatures except when completely getting out of a game system. Keep them.

Theocracity
12-03-2014, 15:59
There's a few things I'd like to point out... Maybe they'll be enlightening.

1. As has been said, GW is getting out of metal. Sisters of Battle are probably the only things they're casting in metal any more, and that's probably to use up the molds that they have.
2. One-off models, like the aforementioned cannoness and standard bearer, are one-mold things. After the mold degraded or broke, there was absolutely no sense in making a new one for an old metal model that had no demand.
3. The fact that GW bothered to make a digital edition of the Codex at all is actually a good sign. Yes, it may feel like you're being strung along, but they're keeping Sisters up to date so they don't ostracize the players that they currently have, and lose them to some competitor. It seems to me that the Sisters players that still exist are very loyal to that army. I know one guy at my FLGS that has bought enough Sisters of Battle to fill out every single conceivable option in the Codex. In other words, if you took one of everything and made a 10,000 point list out of it, he'd have the models for it.

Now, there's something else to consider. GW has already proven that updating older models to plastic is super successful. They proved it once with Dark Eldar and again with Grey Knights. Interest spiked, people loved the new models and factions, and they brought a lot of players into the fold with those armies. GW has business proof now that updating an old army works, but even with that proof, they have to plan accordingly.

They need to build capital for a release like that. Their financials weren't great, but they weren't horrible either. The releases they've been doing are capital-building though. The move to data-slates and supplements and mini-dexes all push for the sale of models, which helps them build up their cash reserves. Once they feel comfortable, they'll be able to invest in another big project and do away with all this excess metal stock altogether.

A final thing to consider is that the opportunity to re-release Sisters as something big and new is too juicy of an opportunity. If GW doesn't know that there are players that want this, they're completely and utterly blind, and no company is *that* blind. GW knows that plastic is what sells. Not metal, not finecast. Plastic. They know they can charge a lot for plastic (look at the prices these days) and they know that people will keep coming back for more as Codices get updated.

Now imagine, a whole new look for Sisters just like they did for Dark Eldar. Talk about an opportunity to attract a lot of new players! It's not just an updated army, it's not just a supplement, it's like a whole new faction! Whether it's Codex: Sisters of Battle, or Codex: Ecclesiarchy, the opportunities for new options are massive for GW, and my thinking is that they know that.

The trouble? Well, if you've taken a business class, you may be familiar with SWOT...

Strengths: A whole new army to draw in new players, a whole new faction with a new aesthetic and opportunities for new dynamics in the game, and more options that they've already said they want to push.
Weaknesses: Risk, risk, risk. There's no guarantee the army will do well, that people will like it, that people wont get up in arms about the sexism of Sisters of Battle miniatures. Depending on the models, the whole thing could be a huge flop where GW can't afford a huge flop.
Opportunities: Appealing to a new audience is a huge thing for GW. An all-female army is nearly impossible to do (almost possible with Dark Eldar), and there are all sorts of opportunities for the church-theme, new fluff, and new ideas to fill in more of the 40k lore, which, as we know, is important to Forging that Narrative.
Threats: Other companies are filling in the empty holes. Raging Heroes is making lots of attractive female models, some of which are looking a lot like battle nuns. There are other factions in whole other games that could fill in that sweet spot for battle women faster. Their own playerbase is a threat. If GW lets Sisters players down, they'll be losing a chunk of their game base, because you won't just be losing Sisters Players, you'll be losing players that play IG, Space Marines, and whatever else they might buy normally.

All business signs point to: Yes, but it will take some time.

Great post that accurately mirrors my thoughts on the subject.

hazmiter
12-03-2014, 16:02
To the OP.
Check out the protectorate of menoth minitures in the war machine range.
There might not be any bolt gun toting chicks in it, but there are some models that make for interesting conversion opportunities.

To hope that they would do plastics for sisters anytime soon is like hoping a snowball wont melt in an inferno.
Id go and suss out other wargaming model companies and do conversions.

Spiney Norman
12-03-2014, 16:02
Miss the resale market? how much is the resale market for the squats with no army now. Do not know what you are going to miss. If you need the cash then that is a different story. I have regretted the sale of miniatures except when completely getting out of a game system. Keep them.

Yeah, I don't think this idea of missing the resale market makes much sense. If the army really does get dropped and all the models go out of production their value will only go up because people will still want to play the army from the old codex. Heck before Tamurkhan came out there were still a good number of fantasy players using their chaos dwarf armies using the ravening hordes list (and some of them still do).

Commissar Merces
12-03-2014, 16:19
Yeah, I don't think this idea of missing the resale market makes much sense. If the army really does get dropped and all the models go out of production their value will only go up because people will still want to play the army from the old codex. Heck before Tamurkhan came out there were still a good number of fantasy players using their chaos dwarf armies using the ravening hordes list (and some of them still do).

If plastic sisters do come out, I am going to want to load up on them. Old models most of the time lose their value when the army is being re-released.

Still doesn't feel like there is a general consensus.

Theocracity
12-03-2014, 16:36
If plastic sisters do come out, I am going to want to load up on them. Old models most of the time lose their value when the army is being re-released.

Still doesn't feel like there is a general consensus.

It's a personal decision so its hard to get consensus. If you ask me, it makes sense to decide which the models you really like that can also be run as an allies force, then sell off any models that you are less excited about / are duplicates necessary to build a full army with. That way you get to keep the models you care most about, can still use them in games, and are ready to expand your collection when plastic Sisters finally arrive.

But that's just my opinion.

duffybear1988
12-03-2014, 16:41
Given what I've posted above, I think I've been pretty clear in my assertion that GW needs to do a lot of work to improve any future release, but I'm not sure what you're driving at here.

When you talk about updated units for feedback purposes, are you talking about:

a) New rules for current units?
b) New models with new units?
c) Existing models packaged into new units?

Given the Sisters are such a niche army anyway and have an established core unit selection and low number of available models, all 3 of those options have big issues, and new models won't be happening until the core models are replaced with Plastic/Finecast because it makes no sense to add new models with experimental rules to an army that isn't in wide enough circulation due to other, easier to fix issues.

Also, how do you determine whether the Codex was a failure? Personally, I got exactly what I expected, a 6th Edition compatible set of rules to allow me to use all of my existing models with the current iteration of the game. I got Warlord traits and a few other things, plus an armylist which ironed out the bugs from the White Dwarf list. To me, that looks like an appropriate evolution of the list, and either they did more internal testing or listened to feedback and made a better product as a result. Is it perfect, by no means, but Sisters have never been a top tier army, they've always been a list that doesn't quite work as a fully fleshed out 40K force. In the circumstances, without carrying out a complete overhaul of the army (see my comments above) GW were never going to produce something so awesome that it could overcome the limited range of models available.

However, at least now they can ally with Knights, use Forgeworld stuff such as air support from the Imperial Navy, and ally with Inquisitors to add back in a few of the things which were lost from the old Codex. By no means are they in a terrible place. Sure the Codex itself was expensive, but that's GW, and in reality they are marketing the product to a small dedicated audience who will think nothing of making the purchase as it will be the only thing they need for what probably will be a lovingly assembled collection of models dating back years. New players have my respect for buying a pricey eBook and then shelling out an arm and a leg for the models!

I'd be interested to get your thoughts, I don't think things are as bleak as you portray, but neither is everything rosy, the dribble of support does wear thin after all this time.

I wrote an entire list of things to change and then my work network died on me - typical.

Anyway to paraphrase what I lost -

I actually think it all went downhill when they broke up the Witch Hunters codex. Now I understand moving the Inquisition out, but what I fail to see the point of was the creation of the battle conclave. I would have done it differently and kept squads of arco flagellants and death cult assassins as elites choices, I would have added zealots/frateris milita in as a troops choice, and I would have made the crusaders into a crusader battle conclave bodyguard unit for high ranking priests. That's 4 units instead of 1 poorly executed amalgamation which has rubbish rules. Then I would have added in the valkyrie as a fast attack choice so they at least have some air capabilities. Now that already has increased the amount of units and choice available and doesn't really require any new figures.

They could execute these changes really simply and quickly:

1) Update the eCodex and tell people to re-download it.
2) Release an Ecclesiarchy supplement with confessors and missionaries as HQ choices, preachers as a non-HQ HQ choice, arco falgellants and death cult assassins as elites and frateris militia zealots as troops. Valkyries could be added as fast attack and penitent engines as heavy support.
3) Release a dataslate for valkyries to be added as a fast attack choice for Sisters of Battle. They already did this with Ultramarine nid veterans so why not add an extra unit for SoB?

Basically what I'm trying to say is that there is a wealth of Ecclesiarchy stuff to fallback on and add in. There was very little reason to remove it from the Witch Hunters book int he first place. Maybe if they added some of the wacky cool stuff back in the codex might not feel so sterile. As it is now the whole things feels like a template that needs a lot more work. Admittedly there is only so much you can do with the basic sisters units but then if they expand it to embrace the rest of the Imperial religious nutters then there's heaps of choice and fun stuff to be had.

I think the changes I have suggested would at least offer some more options and variations in lists. I don't want to have to ally in other units to make them work when they used to function just fine in 3rd and 4th. To be fair to GW their old Witch Hunters codex was a blast. 6th edition is supposed to be about fun so I say give the units the cool rules they had from back then! Make those death cult assassins proper assassins again and give them infiltrate back. This time make them units of assassins with say 1-5 in a unit. Make the flagellants the dangerous beasts they once were even if they die to their own drugs in game. People have been crying out for frateris brethren for years (pretty much since they were taken away) so let us field them. Crusaders should be the badass bodyguards we know they can be. As for the valkyrie, even that features in some of the BL fluff so assign us some.

It really isn't hard. That was 10 minutes of thinking and a quick flip through the old codex. These are supposed to be professional games designers with a passion for the background and the narrative. If they can't do it then sack them and employ somebody who can!

And for the Emperor's sake give us Kyrinov back!

tiger g
12-03-2014, 16:44
If plastic sisters do come out, I am going to want to load up on them. Old models most of the time lose their value when the army is being re-released.

Still doesn't feel like there is a general consensus.

Can you list the models that lose their value when plastics come out.

There are so few female models out there they will become like the beak helmet marines, puffy shirt empire, some of the old cartoonish orks. You never know about the market but these are iconic figures. Using I do not want to miss the resale market is not a reason to dump them. They are playable (not a strong army) so you can still use them. If you are unsatisfied with the play style, and I do not see them ever being a top army so that would be a reason to sell them if you can. I watch the market to pick up cheap SOB. Just have to wait for the right sale for myself.

Beppo1234
12-03-2014, 17:25
I like the metal sisters... and an update runs the risk inherent in an update: ie. GW has a brain fart, and approves an atrocious model... which happens so often. The original sister Canoness' were such great models, then they 'updated' them with those current monstrosities. I'd much rather they take the old sisters, and put them in plastic, for a good value set of single pose, 2 part minis (pack and model). I'd love a poseable kit, but in the end, I'd end up posing most of them in conservative poses like the metals anyways. I actually feel the same way about marines. I don't need a full squad of 10 fully poseable marines. I need 5 poseable marines and 5 single pose minis (ie. like DV)

Spiney Norman
12-03-2014, 18:10
I like the metal sisters... and an update runs the risk inherent in an update: ie. GW has a brain fart, and approves an atrocious model... which happens so often. The original sister Canoness' were such great models, then they 'updated' them with those current monstrosities. I'd much rather they take the old sisters, and put them in plastic, for a good value set of single pose, 2 part minis (pack and model). I'd love a poseable kit, but in the end, I'd end up posing most of them in conservative poses like the metals anyways. I actually feel the same way about marines. I don't need a full squad of 10 fully poseable marines. I need 5 poseable marines and 5 single pose minis (ie. like DV)

What is it that you dislike about the current Canoness, I think she's pretty good, and certainly an improvement on the previous one, plus she comes with the option to represent most of the ecclesiarchy relics which is a good thing IMO.

I agree that I like the current ones, and I agree that GW tends to be very hit and miss these days with their models, how they manage to bring out something as awesome as the imperial knight and then, only 1 month later follow it up the mega-derp taurox armoured transit, I will never know...

DoctorTom
12-03-2014, 18:45
Miss the resale market? how much is the resale market for the squats with no army now. Do not know what you are going to miss. If you need the cash then that is a different story. I have regretted the sale of miniatures except when completely getting out of a game system. Keep them.

Resale market for squats is pretty good, actually.

tiger g
12-03-2014, 19:28
Resale market for squats is pretty good, actually.

That was my point

Spiney Norman
12-03-2014, 19:51
If plastic sisters do come out, I am going to want to load up on them. Old models most of the time lose their value when the army is being re-released.

Still doesn't feel like there is a general consensus.

Right, so let me get this straight, if GW is going to squat sisters you want to flog all your models because you won't play with them any more, and if GW is going to redo the sisters range you also want to sell your models because you will buy the new plastics in shed loads.

So really, whatever happens, you want to sell your models, then maybe you should?

duffybear1988
12-03-2014, 19:52
That's some sales technique...

:D

Beppo1234
12-03-2014, 20:31
What is it that you dislike about the current Canoness, I think she's pretty good, and certainly an improvement on the previous one, plus she comes with the option to represent most of the ecclesiarchy relics which is a good thing IMO.

I agree that I like the current ones, and I agree that GW tends to be very hit and miss these days with their models, how they manage to bring out something as awesome as the imperial knight and then, only 1 month later follow it up the mega-derp taurox armoured transit, I will never know...

This is what I mean: When this piece of crap, relatively speaking and IMO of course...

189071

replaces a beautiful model:

189072


this is why one should always be wary of a GW update. This is not an update, nor an upgrade IMO. It's actually a step down in model quality, in favor of options. Sure, some of the details on the new model are nice, like the face, but then there is the amateurish sculpting of the trim (seriously, look at the boobs), terrible aesthetic choice with the fur, poorly executed flames, and general poor posing. What were they thinking not only when that model was being posed/sculpted, but also approved for production? When my beloved DA when through their latest upgrade, GW decided it would be neat to add stupid wings, to everything. Updates are not necessarily a good thing. Again, I'd much rather GW convert the current sisters to plastic, rather than roll the dice on whether or not a sisters update gets the 'knight treatment' or the 'ogryn treatment'. ie. one was designed with love, the other with no thought.

tiger g
12-03-2014, 20:37
actually like the first one better.

tiger g
12-03-2014, 20:39
Right, so let me get this straight, if GW is going to squat sisters you want to flog all your models because you won't play with them any more, and if GW is going to redo the sisters range you also want to sell your models because you will buy the new plastics in shed loads.

So really, whatever happens, you want to sell your models, then maybe you should?

Except he is going to expect to receive too much money and when they do not sell blame someone for holding on to them to long. I think the window closed yesterday for the SOB market.

Theocracity
12-03-2014, 20:50
actually like the first one better.

Yeah, I think the current one is a more interesting model in comparison. The old one's nice, mind, but I don't think there's anything wrong with either.

Bugaboo
12-03-2014, 23:49
But the new one has a bolt pistol. Bolt pistols aren't competitive like combi-flamers. ^_^

Seriously, though, I like the new one better as well, and I'm not even a big SoB fan.

As for the SoB and their future? I think it's safe to say... no one can really give the OP the answer they want. GW make some odd (in our/my opinion) moves at times, and I have a feeling that the pricing of them is to make them more a sort of "collector's" army, though they have a Codex to appease those who actually want to field them on the battlefield. That's just my thought on the matter. I could join the masses and say it's a ploy to squeeze more $_$ out of their fanbase before just redoing the whole range in plastic, but eh, what's the point in speculating when the truth is far funnier later down the line?

Spiney Norman
13-03-2014, 01:17
This is what I mean: When this piece of crap, relatively speaking and IMO of course...

189071

replaces a beautiful model:

189072


this is why one should always be wary of a GW update. This is not an update, nor an upgrade IMO. It's actually a step down in model quality, in favor of options. Sure, some of the details on the new model are nice, like the face, but then there is the amateurish sculpting of the trim (seriously, look at the boobs), terrible aesthetic choice with the fur, poorly executed flames, and general poor posing. What were they thinking not only when that model was being posed/sculpted, but also approved for production? When my beloved DA when through their latest upgrade, GW decided it would be neat to add stupid wings, to everything. Updates are not necessarily a good thing. Again, I'd much rather GW convert the current sisters to plastic, rather than roll the dice on whether or not a sisters update gets the 'knight treatment' or the 'ogryn treatment'. ie. one was designed with love, the other with no thought.

Fair enough, each to their own I guess, I far prefer the newer Canoness, the facial scar is epic, and my issue with the old Canoness is that she's just not different enough from the rank and file to stand out, I don't like the fact that the only thing that really marks the old Canoness out is the gun she is carrying (well and the Ecclesiarchy symbol). I'm not sure about the brazier (my model has two smaller braziers rather than the large central one) but the fit cloak works fine, esp if you want her wearing the cloak of St aspira or mantle of Ophelia.

All in all I think the newer model was a massive improvement.

duffybear1988
13-03-2014, 09:42
I preferred the older one.

A.T.
13-03-2014, 10:44
I've always appreciated the little details that went into the original sisters - like the back mounted fuel tank for the combi-flamer. It was just a step above a lot of the other models from that era.

AndrewGPaul
13-03-2014, 10:46
Their flamers and bolt pistols were "prototypes" for the new Marine ones that came long soon in 3rd edition.

duffybear1988
13-03-2014, 13:52
I've always appreciated the little details that went into the original sisters - like the back mounted fuel tank for the combi-flamer. It was just a step above a lot of the other models from that era.

They have aged really well. SoB are like the Wood Elves of 40k - timeless models with poor rules. :D

Inquisitor Shego
13-03-2014, 14:12
I have just bought a Redemptor Kyrinov model from Ebay. My plan is to paint him in white robes with a black face and have him as Morgan Freeman from the Lego Movie. Then I will give eulogies in a soothing voice whilst the Emperor protects.

Spiney Norman
13-03-2014, 14:55
They have aged really well. SoB are like the Wood Elves of 40k - timeless models with poor rules. :D

Except even the youngest of the SoB range is older than the entire wood elf model line, and most of the metal sisters are nearly double the age of the current wood elves.
Interestingly I play both SoB and wood elves (and Tomb Kings and Dark Eldar come to think of it), maybe someone on the studio team has a vendetta against me...

duffybear1988
13-03-2014, 19:54
Except even the youngest of the SoB range is older than the entire wood elf model line, and most of the metal sisters are nearly double the age of the current wood elves.
Interestingly I play both SoB and wood elves (and Tomb Kings and Dark Eldar come to think of it), maybe someone on the studio team has a vendetta against me...

I know but WE need updating just as badly as SoB ruleswise. I play almost every army but SoB and woodies are my favourites.

The bearded one
13-03-2014, 20:58
Interestingly I play both SoB and wood elves (and Tomb Kings and Dark Eldar come to think of it), maybe someone on the studio team has a vendetta against me...

Ah, but are the armies you play neglected and/or cruddace'd... or do you (consciously or subconsciously) decide to play neglected/underpowered armies? Causality! I've always had an interest in the underpowered armies (I almost always root for the underdog or unpopular person/choice, in most situations), I just have too much stuff to actually get to investing in another army of them.

Spiney Norman
13-03-2014, 21:39
Ah, but are the armies you play neglected and/or cruddace'd... or do you (consciously or subconsciously) decide to play neglected/underpowered armies? Causality! I've always had an interest in the underpowered armies (I almost always root for the underdog or unpopular person/choice, in most situations), I just have too much stuff to actually get to investing in another army of them.

Well I've played Tomb kings ever since they split from undead, I started wood elves with the release of their current army book in 2005 (bought the army deal at the time so I have the Ltd Ed BSB) and I started playing sisters of battle when codex witch hunters (3rd edition) went on sale, granted I was only tinkering around with dark Eldar before their 2010 release, but I was shouting for an update with the best of them from 2006 onwards.

Menthak
13-03-2014, 22:58
This is what I mean: When this piece of crap, relatively speaking and IMO of course...

189071

replaces a beautiful model:

189072


this is why one should always be wary of a GW update. This is not an update, nor an upgrade IMO. It's actually a step down in model quality, in favor of options. Sure, some of the details on the new model are nice, like the face, but then there is the amateurish sculpting of the trim (seriously, look at the boobs), terrible aesthetic choice with the fur, poorly executed flames, and general poor posing. What were they thinking not only when that model was being posed/sculpted, but also approved for production? When my beloved DA when through their latest upgrade, GW decided it would be neat to add stupid wings, to everything. Updates are not necessarily a good thing. Again, I'd much rather GW convert the current sisters to plastic, rather than roll the dice on whether or not a sisters update gets the 'knight treatment' or the 'ogryn treatment'. ie. one was designed with love, the other with no thought.

Situations like this make me think; why not both?

Commisar
14-03-2014, 00:26
Situations like this make me think; why not both?

Thats what I do. The old Cannoness makes a good Veteran Sister Superior.

A.T.
14-03-2014, 00:47
Thats what I do. The old Cannoness makes a good Veteran Sister Superior.Same here, they mix well into the rank and file whereas the canoness stands out... though i've wondered if four of them with heavy flamers and head swaps would work as a command squad.

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