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boli
10-03-2014, 14:34
I've been thinking for a while to get some Daemons mainly as I like the models and the idea of bringing pure evil to the battlefield.

The only trouble is none of the gods particularly appeal to me by themselves and I'm thinking of building a force based purely on aesthetics; which roughly rules out Nurgle (ewwww!) and Slaanesh (that's daemonic, not pure daemons! ;) ) which leaves me with Tzeentch and Khorne.

The only trouble is I hear a lot of "mono-god" rather than a mixture of the gods - so is it really that bad to run with a mixture of the gods?

My idea so far:

Daemon Prince (Khorne)

Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne (BSB)
Herald of Tzeentch, Level 2 Wizard of Metal on Disc of Tzeentch

20 Pink Horrors, Full Command
20 Pink Horrors, Full Command
40 Bloodletters, Full Command

6 Flamers of Tzeentch w. Champion
3 Bloodcrushers of Khorne, Full Command

~ 2.5k

This is mainly going off aesthetics and a *basic* mix of Tzeentch and Khorne which coming from my other armies has a basic mix of "stuff that should work"; but am I really going to screw myself over thinking about going dual-god? - are these forces simply going to collate bickering amongst themselves and become unplayable?

I know adding plague bearers will make a great tarpit - but I simply don't like the models. likewise fast Slaanesh cavalry... but they arn't real "keep you up at night" daemons.

I would really hate not to have a big-red khorne daemon prince, or pink horrors... so do people have any advice about going duo-god daemons? and will this list built purely on "what I like the look of" actually work?

Tato
11-03-2014, 11:13
There is nothing wrong with a multi-god army, as a matter of fact such lists employ usually most effective units from the book. I understand your inclination towards Khorne and Tzeentch, these are my favourite gods (aesthetically :) )as well. In terms of pure list efficiency I would actually change a few things.

Khorne DP is not really a very good option, there are better builds around. If you really want a flying Khorne Greater Deamon who kicks butt I would go for the Bloodthirster instead, he's one of the best CC characters in the game. If you want a DP, you could take Be'lakor, who is a good mage and will not get shot as easily as a normal DP (which is cannon magnet). If you prefer Tzeentch however, probably your best pick would be the Lord of Change who is a great sorcerer and with the proper gifts (like wand of whimsy) is also potent in CC. Any of the 3 would be better.

If you have only 1 block of Bloodletters, Blood Throne is a waste of points. Much easier (and effective) to insert HoK into the Horde and apply some Loci. Not only your BL are boosted for less but the HoK will be better protected.
HoTz on disk? Do you really want him (in terms of aesthetics)? If not, drop him, that is another cannon magnet and pincushion.

Horrors are a good core, but more effective to use in units of 10, 2x5 formation. It is too expensive to put them ina 4x5 formation and take FC, gain is too small for the points. Three 10 model units will give 3 10W Tzeentch casters for pennies.

Flamers are point sink this edition, avoid at all costs, and warpfire is rubbish. Put your money elsewhere, like Cannons of Khorne.

Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers I have nothing to complain about, yes, they did take a nerf in the new book but the look great on the batlefield when painted and I also use them if only possible. Additionally you can take Bloodhounds with ambushing (nothing like a charge into enemy warmachines form the back, yay!) and 2 x 5 Furies for cheap sacrificial redirectors (Khorne gets +1 S on charge, you want to be the one delivering that charge), you can put a Mark of Khorne on them if you want but it is not necessary.

So after all these comments, taking into account your needs, I would suggest a list like:

Bloodcrusher with gifts (I seriously advocate for LoC here, you want a magic caster, magic is fun!) :)
Herald of Khorne (BSB) + Loci (goes with BL)
10 Pink Horrors
10 Pink Horrors
10 Pink Horrors
30 Bloodletters, Full Command
Cannon of Khorne
Cannon of Khorne
6 Bloodcrushers of Khorne
Flesh Hounds of Khorne, ambushers
5 Chaos Furies
5 Chaos Furies

I don't have the book with me so I don't know how many points this will total to exactly, it might be necessary to shave of a thing ot two. But in general the above will not only look great but will be no pushover in games.

PS. I think this thread should be moved to Army Lists.

boli
11-03-2014, 16:56
Are Bloodthirsters really *much* more powerful than Daemon Princes?

85 more points gives you :
+1WS | +1T | +1W | +1I | +1(+2)A | -1AS | +2 MR | (with Chaos Armour, Khorne Daemon and Flight upgrades)

Sure he is slightly more durable +1T and +1W but a Cannon shot still wounds on 2+ and it can still kill in one hit. S4 gives a 5+ to wound but slight upgrade in armour will balance this out. The only difference I see is 100 points in gifts over 75. At the end of the day he is still going to be doing the same job as a BT and still avoiding the same units.

OK Dragons can beat a DP up and possibly not a BT but I have the added bonus of using him in 1.5k games which the bloodthirster will not. Or am I missing something? (I did consider the Blood Thirster but I figured if I was I would Go Big (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer_Monsters/BLOODTHIRSTER-GREATER-DAEMON-OF-KHORNE.html) with Storm of Magic Rules for the Far future ;))

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Blood letters you would not use in a full horde of 40?

I was stuck between a single 10x4 (40) or two 6x4s (48) for my main combat block - if I'm dropping to only 30 Pink Horrors the can be shifted to 50 Bloodletters instead. (with 2 commands)

You do not mention commands with pink horrors - not worth it at all? I was thinking with the full +3 bonus (20) I would pretty much need commands as they'll see combat in tight games.

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I did partly consider the flamers to deal with chaff, although I must admit I was enchanted more by their appearance than their points cost... wow they really need a 10-15 point reduction.

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Run a full 2 sets of blood crushers? I would have thought the T4 4+ AS would just make them too fragile to use en-mass? I was planning on using them like I would a chariot -supporting the Blood Letters :) - plus aesthetically the warriors of chaos ones look much better :)

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I did consider the hounds and the Furys but despite their usefullness the old metal sculpts just grate me the wrong and remind me too much of their old sculpts (http://www.solegends.com/citcat19912/c20251rcfleshhnds-02.htm)


In truth the bit about the army list was just tacked on as an afterthought - I'm not interesting in the full nuts and bolts of an army list - more "will none mono daemons" actively work and can you build a list on pure aesthetic merit alone :P

Tato
11-03-2014, 18:01
but I have the added bonus of using him in 1.5k games which the bloodthirster will not
True, but you specifically listed a 2,5k army, in which case a Greater Deamon is better than a DP. DP's work very well for WoC, somehow not so good for DoC. :)

Blood letters you would not use in a full horde of 40?
Didn't say that, I love a huge horde of BL's, I was just looking for points to shave off. Witah 40+ horde you also get your Loci off more effectively and get something of a deathstar (always fun :) )

You do not mention commands with pink horrors - not worth it at all? I was thinking with the full +3 bonus (20) I would pretty much need commands as they'll see combat in tight games
Definitely not worth it and you don't want your horrors in combat. They are used as magic casters not fighting blocks (3 units will get you 3 rolls for those more powerful spells). FC is a waste of points on casters.

Run a full 2 sets of blood crushers? I would have thought the T4 4+ AS would just make them too fragile to use en-mass?
They are far from fragile and can pack a punch even if they are not as good as the WoC counterpart - Skullcrushers. I like to take 6 for eastethic merit alone (yeah, other people also do this :) ), you can decide to take 3 only and put more points into the BL horde if you wish.

I did consider the hounds and the Furys but despite their usefullness the old metal sculpts just grate me the wrong
You could convert plastic WoC hellhounds (they just need a collar) and use AOW furies.

"will none mono daemons" actively work and can you build a list on pure aesthetic merit alone :P
Yes they will, and if aesthetics is your measure of fun who is to stop from having that fun and building an army which is candy for your eye? Luckily many of us are playing for fluff and not all armies out there are Nurgle based comp lists. Just have fun!

Daenerys Targaryen
11-03-2014, 21:48
If you're not giving your LoC the Eternal Beatstick, you're doing it wrong.
Plus, you really need a Lv2 Tzherald to roll their spells first in order to better assure the Horrors land Gateway/Firestorm.