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View Full Version : 3000 pts New Dwarfs vs Beastmen playtesting



Tato
10-03-2014, 16:36
This was a friendly battle, with sole purpose of play testing the new Dwarf units, therefore instead the usual turn-by-turn report I will just summarize the performance of Dwarf units for all those before their first battle with the new army book.
Because of the purpose of this game you will find the Dwarf list rather haphazard with no true unit coherence or strategy, I just wanted to cram as much of the new stuff as possible. 3000 pts was not enough yet to get Flame Cannon or Rangers so other playtests will be on the way…

DWARF LIST

Dwarf Lord (313pts), General, Master Rune Of Smiting, Rune Of Might, Rune of Speed, Rune Of Warding x 2, Shield, Shieldbearers
Runesmith (85pts) Rune of Spellbreaking
Thane (90pts) Battle Standard Bearer
22 Longbeards (351pts), FC, Shield, Rune of Stoicism
25 Longbeards (405pts) FC, Shield, Rune of Sanctuary, Rune of Stoicism
Gyrocopter (80pts)
Gyrocopter (100pts) Vanguard
Gyrocopter (100pts) Vanguard
28 Hammerers (487pts) FC, Master Rune of Valaya
20 Ironbreakers (310pts) FC
Gyrobomber (125pts)
20 Irondrakes (380pts), FC, Ironwarden with Brace of Drakefire pistols, Rune of Slowness x 2
Organ Gun (170pts) Rune Of Accuracy, Rune Of Forging


BEASTMEN ARMY

Beastlord (254 pts), Obsidian Blade, Ramhorn Helm, Talisman of Protection, Ironcurse Icon, Gnarled Hide
Great Bray-Shaman (309 pts) Level 4, Earthing Rod, Talisman of Preservation
Wargor (191 pts) BSB, The Beast Banner
Bray-Shaman (160 pts), Level 2, Shard of the Herdstone
Bray-Shaman (160 pts), Level 2; Staff of Darkoth
Slugtongue (190 pts)
Tuskgor Chariot (80 pts)
Tuskgor Chariot (80 pts)
50 Gor Herd (425 pts), FC
50 Bestigor Herd (645 pts), FC, Standard of Discipline
5 Ungor Raiders (30 pts)
5 Ungor Raiders (30 pts)
10 Ungor Herd (59 pts)
10 Centigor (387 pts), Musician, Ghorros Warhoof.

Beastmen lost horribly with just One Bray Shaman and the Slugtongue accompanied by some Ungor Raiders left alive, cowering in a corner forest. The Dwarfs lost all flyers, 11 Ironbreakers, 5 Longbeards, 2 Irondrakes and that’s it. But the result is not all that important (to be fair Beastmen are little match for Dwarfs) so let’s look at the performance of each unit.

Lord
I wasn't a big fan of taking Lords in a comp list with the new book, it seems a Ld10 Thane will do the job just fine for a much less point allowance. I did take a Lord though (with a charging Doombull in mind) with a build I copied from Lord Dan and I must say I’m a convert. The Lord in a proper build is still killy as always and the 5 wounds make him live long enough to get the job done. In a challenge with the Beastlord, he took 3 unsaved wounds and slayed the opponent in first round, with an additional 6 wounds for overkill. MRoSmiting is murder for enemy characters. I will still be tuning up the build (I badly want MRoSnorri) but looks like the Lord is here to stay for all those multiwound killer opponents.

Runesmith (and magic phase!)
Beastemen had a magic-heavy list and it easily proved that 1 Runesmith and Valaya is not enough. During almost all magic phases I was stuck with half of my opponents number of dice, enabling me to dispel just one spell each time. You save those DD for the more dangerous spells letting the little stuff go through. Problem is the little stuff can sting too (5D6 S1 hits? Nothing much but eventually big chance of 1-2 wound going through your Gyro armour save). MRoValaya does not help since you throw anyway 1 dice more than the caster just to make sure of the effect, and eventually Valaya comes out very expensive for that +2 to dispell. It was obvious that if not for my opponents few IF’s which did to him more damage than to me, the magic phase would hurt badly. Next time I’m taking at least 2 if not 3 of these guys with RoSpellbreaking to stop that most crucial magic, and Valaya will stay at home. For those of you nauseating at the idea of paying 60 pts for a dispel caddy I will must underline that the AP Ironbreakers enjoyed thanks to the Smithy payed of more than 60 pts on additional killed enemies (about 6 guys more died due to -1 AP).

Longbeards
Admittedly they did not have much of a challenge fighting only with the Centigors, Tuskgor chariot and a Bray Shaman with Raiders. But it was enough to see that yes, these guys can do ALMOST everything the Irobreakers can do. Slap on a RoStoicism and you have an anvil unit that is nearly impossible to push. Given fact that they are core I will probably be taking them as anvils leaving the Special slot for Gyros, Hammerers and artillery.

Gyrocopter
This is a game changer. Sing Hallelujah! Praise Jeremy Vetock! Rejoice! And definitely do not leave home without one. Or two. Or three, or even four if you can afford it. :D Originally I thought of them as affordable, quick redirectors but they are worth much more than that. For Dwarfs, having stuff that brings the fight to the enemy in turn 1 is really something. They are killy, they are survivable (relatively), they hinder marching, but what is most important they help you seize initiative, make the opponent react to these pesters and abandon the original plan of your destruction. Yes, they die to enemy fire (please note all my flyers died due to magic shooting). But since the enemy is focusing on those Gyro’s he is not shooting at more valuable targets, right? In terms of being killy my Copters killed around 30-35 models on T4 enemy hordes. Not shabby at all.

Ironbreakers
Did great. They took full charge of a 50 unit Bestigor Herd horde and survived for 2 rounds of combat, long enough for Hammerers to come in with a side charge. I should have put on a RoStoicism, otherwise I had to reroll for combat result and praised my luck. Still, if Longbeards do ALMOST the same AND are core will I be taking them? Not so sure at all.

Hammerers
There is no hammer unit as a Hammerer unit with their hammers (listen and repeat). Charge on 36 S7 attacks is nothing short of rape. Bestigor horde vaporized in thin air. I am positive Hammerers are a must in every army considering there are some elite warriors out there and normal HW warriors might just not cut it.

Organ Gun
Put it on a hill in a corner so was always shooting on long distance. Managed to kill a chariot and shave off some Gors. Definitely much better than it was.

Irondrakes
I have mixed feelings. Yes, they did perform well. Good AS makes them withstand shooting and CC. Stand and shoot on a Gor charge resulted in ten wounds and the charge only delivered by the Wargor BSB. But… all the time they were shooting at long range hitting on 5’s. Not many kills there. And not many units wanted to walk by below 9” distance (bad opponent, very bad!) The 2xRoSlowness isn’t as cheesy as it seems. Most fast units will deliver the charge from outside the 9” close range, even substracting one dice. If you are playing gun line: take them, if you are planning for a more mobile CC army, leave them at home and take an OG instead.

Gyrobomber
I really, really wanted it to work. So much that I rejected your words of wisdom that it does not and took one to find out myself. Maybe the others did not see it’s full potential? Maybe the others made a mistake? No, they didn’t. :cries: Truth is (and I’m saying this with tears in my eyes): the Bomber does not work. You will fly over something to bomb it in turn 2 earliest. By then some things are in combat already and others are so close to your stuff that the scatter can easily blast your throng. Actually the scatter is so bad that the bomber can bomb itself. You still have the Clattergun but it is inferior to the Steamgun. If you need a blast the Grudgthrower is much better, will rain damage from tirn one and can be runed up. Alas, my bomber will stay in the hangar…

Overall
The game was great fun both for me and for my opponent. It was far from boring, had action from turn 1, had magic which I couldn’t shut off, and was devoid of immobile, castling midgets. Proof that the new book was a step in the right direction. Nay to grumblers!

Lord Dan
10-03-2014, 19:25
Swiss army Lord for the win! :D

In a game this past weekend I witnessed my opponent's decked out Blender Vampire Lord, literally, running away from my Lord's unit the entire game. Anything which can instill the fear of God in a 500 point combat Lord is a winner in my book. I will say that I'm surprised your Irondrakes didn't perform well. I ran a unit of 18 with the Rune of Slowness, and they absolutely decimated a unit of 8 Crypt Horrors, between two rounds of shooting and two stand-and-shoot phases. This should actually be the norm, considering that the average charge of 10.5" for a unit with M4 is reduced to 7" with just a single rune of Slowness. Between those 4 batches of shooting, even a T5 unit like Crypt Horrors is taking an average of 15 wounds (half shots at close range and half shots at close). Anyway, I hope you'll give them another go.

Have you tried out a Flame Cannon yet? That thing looks ungodly brutal on paper.

In return for trying out my suggestion, and in honor of your success with them, I'm going to give a big unit of Ironbreakers a go this week over my normal block of Longbeards with HW+shield. I'll let you know how things work out

Tato
10-03-2014, 22:46
I will give the Irondrakes another try of course, would be stupid of me to write of something after one use only, especially since I wasn't exactly UNHAPPY with their performance. This time instead of the bomber it will be the Flame Cannon and a modified Lord build: Shieldbearers, Shield, RoMight x 2, MRoSnorri, RoWarding, RoSpeed. I will get slightly worse multiple wounds (D3 not D6) but I get to hit on 2+, which seems to good an opportunity to miss (the rest, 1+ AS and 5+ WS stays unchanged). What do your Mathhammer calculations say on that? :)

Edit: did some calculations myself and Lord Dan build vs Tato build
Lord Dan Build = 2 hits -> 1,67 W -> 0,93 W after saves, translates into 0,93x3,5=3,255 wound per combat
Tato Build = 3,33 hits -> 2,78 W -> 1,54 W after saves, translates into 1,54 x 2 = 3,08 wound per combat phase.
:( My build seems slightly worse on paper.

Lord Dan
11-03-2014, 00:08
Unfortunately your build is also only effective against T5 and higher. Against T4 monstrous infantry the original build is still doing D6 wounds per hit, so he actually carves through things like Ogres really well.

datalink7
11-03-2014, 05:23
Thanks for the report. Glad to hear Ironbreakers worked well as I intend to use them.

Tato
11-03-2014, 09:51
@ Lord Dan: Yes, I mathhammered both Lord builds against each other ;) , so calculated on T5.
@ datalink7: Ironbreakers performance was incredible: I mean they whithstood a charge from a 45 unit Bestigor Horde with GW, and stopped them in their tracks? Should be renamed to Ironbrakers. :) If you only have Special points to spare be sure to take them. I, planning to take 2 chunks of Hammerers and 4 Gyro's next time, will probably be tight on points so I will take Longbeards, but otherwise...

Tato
11-03-2014, 09:52
Edit: sorry, double post.

jacob grimes
11-03-2014, 18:47
Unfortunately your build is also only effective against T5 and higher. Against T4 monstrous infantry the original build is still doing D6 wounds per hit, so he actually carves through things like Ogres really well. Don't you mean d6 wounds per unsaved wound? I believe the multiple wounds only applies to any unsaved wounds, not generic hits.

Lord Dan
11-03-2014, 18:49
Sorry, I was foolishly using "hit" and "wound" interchangeably. You're absolutely right.