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Count William Grey
12-06-2006, 21:04
How many models do you believe is sufficient for the army and in each unit?
furthermore, if im running a all infantry army around 180 models for a 2k game with sufficient artillery, what is the risk of being flanked?

DeathlessDraich
17-06-2006, 11:14
180 is equivalent to 8 blocks of 20 plus others - a horde army.
Empire armies tend to be smaller with variety.
Assuming all infantry units are treated equally and none offered as a sacrificial unit:

1) Infantry units need 16 -20 when they are in combat to maximise combat resolution. You therefore have to add a few more models to account for loss by shooting and magic.
With movement 4, you'll probably have to withstand 3 rounds of magic and 2 rounds of shooting before combat. A safe estimate will be 3 or 4 infantrymen lost per round of magic and shooting - total 15 - 20 (it could be more with some armies and much less in others).
Add this total to the TOTAL no. of infantrymen, divide by the no. of units and you have an estimate.

2)With a slow all infantry army, you WILL be attacked on one flank at least unless you're fighting Dwarves. If you mean a flank charge - that depends on how you play. Sometimes it is desirable to tempt a flank charge, flee and counter charge.
BUT it it's more likely for an Empire army with detachments to get the flank charge in later turns IF your detachments have been preserved.

MarcoPollo
19-06-2006, 06:22
I think that 20-25 models per unit is the optimum number. You will need to be able to get full rank +3, a standard +1 and outnumber +1 for a total of +5 Combat resolution. 25 should do it. But you should also invest in some handgunners either as detachments or as stand alone lines. It is good to have a mix of cannons, gunlines, and hellcannons for a solid shooting army. Dispatch one of each type of shooting on each flank. Have a might meaty force up the middle. If you are at 2K pts, use a elector count and get the griffon standard on one of you main units.

It helps to have some cavalry too. Maybe even some pistoliers. They can be exellent at distracting and fleeing and chasing units.

A very excellent combination is a Steam tank/knights combo. The steam tank can tie up alot of units and stick around. The knights can then take their time to get stuck in to help the tank. Couple this with the ability to cause panic with all the shooting you have, and you can really dish the pain.

Use the big units to clean up at the end.

Grand Warlord
19-06-2006, 06:32
I personally like units of atleast 25, since youll generally take some wounds marching with enemy ranged weapons.

As for the flanking, I find that if your detachments survive the ranged onslaight the your ranks will be ok for a little while just depends on how long your detachments survive

Keller
19-06-2006, 15:35
I agree; 25 is about the best number for an Empire infantry unit. In a 5x5 formation, you can lose 6 men before you lose a rank bonus, you are likely to recieve the outnumber bonus, and you can have larger detachments.

I often use detachments of 10-12. This makes them durable enough to still do their job, even after a scuffle or some shooting casualties. If you get below 5, the unit is lost to you. These larger detachments work well, IMO, becuase you can send them off as independent units that are still effective enough to get the job done, which makes the Empire all the more adaptable as an army.

You are going to need some shooting to soften up the enemy ranks as you approach, and to keep their harassing units under control. A unit or two of 10-12 archers/gunners/crossbowmen backed by 2-3 cannons/mortars usually gets the job done well enough. Your archers/gunners can be set as independant units (especially gunners, so you can get the specialty weapons) or as detachments, depending on how much you want to be able to split your fire. I usually just go for independent units, to help in the deployment phase, but detachments have their benefits too.

Knights and Pistoliers are also quite helpful to the Empire, though I rarely find myself using them. I prefer small units of 6 or 5+character when I use them, but larger units can work if you want them to. Empire knights have great armor, decent stats, and a relatively cheap price, making them some of the best knights available ot anyone.


Overall, Empire is a very flexible army that can be played in many different ways. If you have a particular theme in mind, you can most likely find the units in the Empire to meet such a theme. If you don't care much for themes, and just want to play, the Empire gives you a lot of choices in what to take, so you can always try new things and be less likely to become bored with your army.

Grontik
21-06-2006, 16:27
If you really want some good specific Empire info then I highly suggest you take a look around the best site for it ...

http://www.warhammer-empire.com/

I play three large 25 man infantry blocks (2 sword, one spear) and they each field either an archer or handgunner detachment and a free company detachment.
I tend to support them with a large hammer unit of knights (10 IC), a small nilla knights unit, and the required Pistoliers. This type of setup protects the flanks very well and can be used to lead the enemy into the bulk forces.
You can then lay down some artillery on the flanks and further direct the enemy where you want them because they will go for the warmachines as it is the thing that can negate their heavy hitters.

Sheerkhan
22-06-2006, 08:47
i go with 25 swordsmen or spearmen.

i use detachments of 4x2 of halbediers or free companies.

i use knights in groups of 6.

i use archers and handgunners in 12s.

Okuto
24-06-2006, 23:32
I usually take 20-30 strong. The mainstray units get 30, the auxillary get 20.
The 30 is just to insure the unit will stay their ground while the knights smash the enemy to bits.

I run a TVI type army, just check the site that Grontik provided, it's a great site. I usually run 2 units of swords, 1 spears, harb/milita detachments, handgunners, support knights, maxed out artillery, it's served me well, though I have 2 empire armies, the other is all knights, it's a nice change from time to time

Crazy Harborc
25-06-2006, 02:09
If/when you do battles bigger than 2000 try having a parent unit with one archer detachment. A shooting screen is good protection to aid in setting up a little trap.

(I only try this maybe once a year on any given regular opponent) I deploy the archer detachment a couple of inches in front of their parent unit.

IF, the unit that charges my archers are foot, my detachment flees as it's reaction PROVIDING I am certain that will cause the charging enemy foot to fall short.

What if the parent unit is also within the charge reach of the enemy unit?? Well.....THAT is why the other detachment is there as support for the parent unit.