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Pauelor
11-03-2014, 14:25
Hello WarSeer community,

I've been around for quite some time, but not until recently have I got time to sit down and think about my army - and I stumble onto an obstacle. I don't know which army to choose. I mean, I have been following WH40k rules back since 3rd edition and read all the codices that would be published henceforth, but haven't found anything of my liking. Then I thought that I would pick the brains of fellow gamers who are into the game for longer period of time. Maybe when I give you some details about my preferences will you be able to steer me into the right direction:

- my favorite Warhammer army are dwarves
- I don't like too many figs on the table
- I am fond of small, specialized forces that act quickly and deadly, or slowly, but surely, withstanding a lot of punishment
- I am both keen on shooting and fighting up-close
- I like troops and vehicles both the same
- I am really fluff-wise oriented player
- Physical over psychic powers, but not neglectic the latter either
- I don't mind converting, green stuffing and spending many hours painting a single fig

Any thoughts? There are just so many armies out there and I really would like to focus my attention on a single one, especially that it would be my first army ever collected.

Thanks in advance guys,

P.K.

Navar
11-03-2014, 14:38
Hello WarSeer community,

I've been around for quite some time, but not until recently have I got time to sit down and think about my army - and I stumble onto an obstacle. I don't know which army to choose. I mean, I have been following WH40k rules back since 3rd edition and read all the codices that would be published henceforth, but haven't found anything of my liking. Then I thought that I would pick the brains of fellow gamers who are into the game for longer period of time. Maybe when I give you some details about my preferences will you be able to steer me into the right direction:

- my favorite Warhammer army are dwarves
- I don't like too many figs on the table
- I am fond of small, specialized forces that act quickly and deadly, or slowly, but surely, withstanding a lot of punishment
- I am both keen on shooting and fighting up-close
- I like troops and vehicles both the same
- I am really fluff-wise oriented player
- Physical over psychic powers, but not neglectic the latter either
- I don't mind converting, green stuffing and spending many hours painting a single fig

Any thoughts? There are just so many armies out there and I really would like to focus my attention on a single one, especially that it would be my first army ever collected.

Thanks in advance guys,

P.K.

Clearly imperial Knights are your answer.

not too many figs on the table.
Small specialized force
both shooty and assaulty
All vehicles
a Large amount of fluff (arguable more than any other single force.)
No psychic powers
Many conversion opportunities.

Serious answer maybe Grey Knights, but they might be to psychic.

Poseidal
11-03-2014, 14:58
Imperial Fists (or successors) style Space Marine chapter.

Or Eldar Wraiths:

- my favorite Warhammer army are dwarves
Eldar are kind of similar to Dwarfs: They travel in tunnels in the Warp rather than open air Warp travel, have Runic weapons and keep grudges. Their psykers actually channel powers through runes rather than directly tapping the warp like other wizards.
- I don't like too many figs on the table
Wraiths are quite elite, and tough. Generally units of 5 are used
- I am fond of small, specialized forces that act quickly and deadly, or slowly, but surely, withstanding a lot of punishment
This is the Eldar Wraith army in a nutshell
- I am both keen on shooting and fighting up-close
Wraithguard for (short) ranged, Wraithblades are their combat equivalent; Wraithlords and Wraithknights can handle longer ranges, but are no slouches in combat either.
- I like troops and vehicles both the same
Wraith-units are sort of both at the same time!
- I am really fluff-wise oriented player
Iyanden historically use them, you can do a similar theme (or just use them as your Craftworld)
- Physical over psychic powers, but not neglectic the latter either
The Wraiths themselves aren't psychic power based, though you can take a Spiritseer who is an inexpensive HQ who has some reasonable powers.

Spiney Norman
11-03-2014, 15:19
I was thinking grey knights all the way until you hit limited psychic, they are pretty much everything else you are looking for all in one package.

Imperial knights are an interesting idea, but everyone you play will hate you for it, adding an allied knight to your army is one thing, but a full primary detachment is game-breaking.

The other thing you might look at is space wolves, their Thunderwolf cavalry excel at CC and will give you a naturally low model count, but their long fangs provide some of there best long range firepower in the game, so you can mix and match them as you like. Plus there's the fact that now squats are out of the picture, space wolves are about the closest thing to a dwarf you will find in 40k, all beard and bad temper.

Poseidal's valiant attempt to make Eldar sound like fantasy dwarf was quite comical, but seriously I don't think psychic space elves are really what jumps out at me from your list of preferences.

Pauelor
11-03-2014, 22:31
Thanks guys for your insight - I failed to mention that as I am keen on dwarves, I am against any kind of elvism, in fighting doctrine, appearance and their approach to life, so thanks Poseidal for you efforts :). I haven't got acquainted myself with Imperial Knights codex so I don't know yet whether I will like it or not. As for Space Wolves and Grey Knights, they were my first choices, but I was wondering whether there is something more out there. I like the Imperial Fists idea, thou!

Sir Didymus
11-03-2014, 23:35
I second the Grey Knights.

Their psychic powers are basically just bonus to butt 'ead. But there you get an army that can both shoot and hit hard in close combat :)

Pauelor
11-03-2014, 23:48
What are your thoughts on Black Templars? I like the zealatory they bring, a bit mindless, but still, furious!

The Emperor
11-03-2014, 23:51
Another reminder of why 40k needs Space Dwarves.

BigBrown
11-03-2014, 23:57
How about Dark Angels: Deathwing? A small elite force of terminators and land raiders capable of packing a punch in close combat and from range, psychic powers are optional. They tend to get overwhelmed by large numbers so they aren't the most competitive choice but it might be right for you.

Bloodangeldante
12-03-2014, 02:02
What about blood angels? They've got some nasty troop choices like death company and furioso dreadnaught. Along with that there's not much magic in there


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Ichshadon
12-03-2014, 08:36
I am fascinated that people even suggest anything other than Space Wolves with this preconditions....

- my favorite Warhammer army are dwarves

There are no real dwarves in 40k, but Space Wolves got the whole runic nordic honour theme covered for you.

- I don't like too many figs on the table

They are a Space Marine Army, so you're automatically low on models compared to many other armies, + they favor heroes and thus even further decrease your model count.

- I am fond of small, specialized forces that act quickly and deadly, or slowly, but surely, withstanding a lot of punishment

They are a Space Marine Army and used to be the Emperors Executioners....sounds like what you search for.

- I am both keen on shooting and fighting up-close

Space Wolves are the king of mid-range combat, they are good at both shooting and fighting up-close with most of their troops, not as good in shooting as say Tau, not as brutal in close combat as maybe...well actually they can take on most things in close combat ;-P

- I like troops and vehicles both the same

Again, they are Space Marines, so a natural mix of infantry and troops, + they can field Wolf Cavalry and Wolfs as Beasts, so a good mix.

- I am really fluff-wise oriented player

A Space Wolf Army is full of character, heroic individuals, and endless potential for Sagas and stories, they should satisfy your fluff needs for a looong time.

- Physical over psychic powers, but not neglectic the latter either

They have some good psychics and one of the best psychic defense in the form of their Runepriests, but besides that, they fight with brute strength.

- I don't mind converting, green stuffing and spending many hours painting a single fig

Every single Space Wolf is a hero on it's own and you can invest as much time into converting them into awesome poses, adding furs, charms, and whatever as you want and it will always look awesome. Highly decorated tactical marines might look odd in an Imperial Fist Army, but in a Space Wolves Army, the more trinkets the better ;-P


So really, I think Space Wolves would be the perfect match for what you describe. Join the Warriors of Fenris and make the Allfather proud! ;-)

GuroG
12-03-2014, 08:47
Space wolfs the man above is right, grey knights, black templars & blood angels are all good choices.

If it's not competitive gaming go with what looks cool!

Maybe iron hands with their flesh is weak, love of tanks & stumpy dreadnoughts all quite stunty like

Marshal_Loss
12-03-2014, 09:30
In terms of small elite forces, you can go for things like all biker armies/all terminator armies (Dark Angels more so than Grey Knights if you'd like to avoid psychic powers) that have access to some very powerful vehicles but still have very few pairs of boots on the tabletop.

I'd recommend getting the rulebook and reading through all the basic fluff though, just so you can get a general idea of what's out there. If you're a huge fan of the fluff like you say, then start with the fluff and worry about your army later.

Pauelor
12-03-2014, 11:36
I like the truth behind your words, brother. I think I found what I was looking for. On the side note, I love Norwegian mythology, so Space Wolves are the perfect match. But how do they work in 6th edition with 5th edition codex?

And one more question: can space marine armies that have their own codex include centurion squads or any new fliers?

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AndrewGPaul
12-03-2014, 12:47
Not as such, no. Although you could include the Centurion Siegebreaker or Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing dataslates. Paint them as Space Wolves, but remember they don't get the Space Wolves-specific special rules.

Ichshadon
12-03-2014, 14:02
Glad to hear it, you won't regret it, at least I never did in my 15 years of playing them ;-)

As for how they work, well the codex rules work just as described, with 6th edition accute senses got way worse, but to be honest, it hardly matters.

Space Wolves are still a very strong army:

(Just a select few comments, don't have time to write all my knowledge down ;-P)

HQ:

Wolflords hit like a truck, I put mine on a thunderwolf with all sorts of equipment and run him in a unit of thunderwolf cavalry. Sure that's 1/4th of my total points, but rare is the game where it hasn't gotten it's points back, most of the time they did way more than that, while looking awesome.

Runepriests are one of the best Psykers out there, with a 4+ to block psychic powers and awesome psychic powers of their own there can be a spot for them in every army.

Wolfpriests got a bit weaker after losing their apothecarius double role, but they are still as good if not better than every other chaplain out there.

Elite:

Wolfguard: Easily the most configurable unit in the whole game I'd say, every single one of them can have whatever equipment he likes! The possibilities are endless and so are the conversion options and such ;-)

Lone Wolf: A lonesome death seeking Space Wolf? You've said you like dwarfs, here's a Slayer for you, only he wears powerarmor and has some awesome extra rules!

Troops:

Blood Claws: Sadly a bit lacking, but that's only because the other option is so much better....

Grey hunter: Definitely a candidate for the best troop choice in the whole game! Marine Stats with close combat weapon, bolter AND boltpistol + Counterattack means that you'll be hitting with 3 bloody attacks, on the offense as well as on the defense! (granted you make a morale check) Good weapon options + free second special weapon if you take 10? Wold standard for rerollable 1s? Mark of the wulfen? There's nothing to not like about this unit, it's just glorious!

Fast Attack:

Thunderwolf Cavalry: Some say it doesn't fit into a space marine army, and in the beginning I thought so too, but I got used to them and now I love them. Viking Space Warriors riding giant wolves into battle with 6 attacks on the bloody charge with rending special rule and good weapon options....nothing to not like, Strength and Toughness 5 with 2 wounds just makes them so great. Who cares about the points....

Fenrisian Wolf Pack: Often ignored, even more so on the internet, but I usually run at least 30 of those bad boys, if I don't take 2 thunderwolf units it's usually 50! Why? For dirt cheap points you get 10 models with spacemarine profile (+1 attack, less morale) that, combined with a Saga, have initiative 5 and are beasts. nothing makes your enemy panic as much as a bunch of those suddenly charging (and running) 18 inches at them in the first turn....even more so when you can get 50 of them for below 450 points.......is it strange? Does the internet think you're crazy? Definitely, but it's soooo damn glorious, and so satisfying! The stories of what my fenrisian wolf units have already killed in their countless games are numerous. Not once have they failed bringing their points back for me (as long as you use at least 30 of them mind..)

Heavy Support:
Long Fangs: The old ones in the army, but damn they pack a punch. not only are they just as good in close combat as any other space wolf, they can carry up to 5 heavy weapons (one more than those Codex Astartes Pansies) for very low points, and they can split fire as they see fit! This unit is one of the units that make the Space Wolves stand up to any other codex out there.




If you don't take allies they struggle a little against fliers, but who cares honestly? I sure never did.

Pauelor
12-03-2014, 14:54
Wow! Thanks! Now that what I dare to call an awesome feedback! I read that they do struggle a bit with fliers, but there are some options to work it through, one being allies, but I cannot force myself to see proud Sons of Russ asking for help. I will start to gather money now. Are there any rumours about 6th edition codex?

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Ichshadon
13-03-2014, 06:44
It depends on your group (if you already have one) if they field loads of flyers you might have to get some allies, or take one of those new Dataslate formations (which are kind of like allies anyways, only you don't need to take an HQ and stuff to get the good units...). In my gaming group people only use moderate amounts of fliers, so I never really bother about taking allies and just deal with them with my longfangs if I really have to.

As for rumours about 6th edition codex, well it'll arive somewhere within the next year or year and a half I'd assume, but no really concrete rumours that I'd trust seem to have emerged yet.

Scribe of Khorne
13-03-2014, 07:09
Grey Knights, or Loganwing, but that may not be future proofed...

Damn too late to save you I see, remember well the Night of the Wolf, brother. ;)

DoctorTom
13-03-2014, 17:01
One question I have is how much work you want to put into your army - do you want one out of the box, or are you willing to put in work making conversions? I'm asking this because of your like of dwarves. You might want to pick up dwarf figures and convert them to 40k. The new dwarf Ironbreakers box looks like it might be able to be used to convert to "counts as" models in Power Armor (Space Marines or Grey Knights). You could use the rules for, say, Iron Hands and use the converted dwarf figures. You'll end up with a unique looking army and one you'll probably like playing even more. If you go this route you might look at Grey Knights from the perspective of having a lower model count, but also other dwarf figures could be converted for making up an Inquisitor's Warband. On the other hand, the Thunderfire Cannon is something that works with space dwarfs (they had similar things back in the day they actually had miniatures).

Pauelor
13-03-2014, 18:29
Interesting notion. And yes, I don't have problems with sitting down with the fig and work on it for hours. Space Dwarves (Marines). Or my own chapter of space midgets. Coool!

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Comrade JC
13-03-2014, 19:20
I am actually going to have to second going with a near pure Wraith army fielding Eldar.

Space Wolves very much share the norse theme with the Dwarves from fantasy, but playstyle wise I feel they fit different roles in their respective games. Space Wolves are fairly tough, rely a lot on their troops currently but have access to a lot of fast moving, mainly cc option in wolves and wolf cavalry. As well, their librarians have a pretty nice psychic power set. Where the Wolves do seem similar to dwarves is their ability to put down some very nasty characters.

Playing Eldar with pure wraiths - your mainstay in Wraithguard and Wraithblades are tougher and meaner than marines and absolutely fearless. They are footslogging it unless you take transports (as are Space Wolf Grey Hunters), but they are devastating up close with short ranged weapons (guard) or in CC (blades). Fast attack (which seems kind of a contradiction for dwarves lol) you can use the Wraithfighter, which fits in the Wraith theme fluff wise. In heavy support, you have the Wraithlord and Wraithknight - big walkers who can also hit hard in cc or potentially Vaul's support batteries. The batteries act a lot like field artillery from Warhammer, so they could be a stand-in for the dwarf cannons and other siege weapons. About the only hole I see is the HQ. Eldar don't do super-killy melee characters in large numbers. You could definitely use an Autarch to fill this role though, or perhaps one of the melee Phoenix Lords (actually, they ARE nasty). You will have one spirit seer to make wraiths troops. While not exactly a good beat stick, the seer will cast Runes of Battle to buff himself and squads, which is in keeping with dwarves to me.

I think you will have fun either way and Eldar as an overall book are more "Space Elves" - but when I saw the option to go pure wraiths with the newish Eldar codex, my very first reaction to the concept was "Oh, cool. Space dwarves," based on how it would play. The looks don't fit the norse theme, but that's what conversions and customizing are for no? For instance, you could use spare Wraithblades to man the Vaul's support guns rather than guardians, to keep the army on theme and more dwarf-like. Same goes with the HQ - I'm sure you can make a sufficiently epic looking Wraithblade to stand in for an Autarch or a Phoenix Lord.

Happy gaming!

tiger g
13-03-2014, 19:25
Based on the other discussions we have no one has asked what type of games will he be playing. Tournament, fluff narrative. What type of terrain will your game board typically have. A bare board would suggest a different type of army than a urban set-up. you have described the type of army you like but you might want to describe the setting you will be playing in. As this might affect the pleasure you are getting from the army.

Darnok
13-03-2014, 19:52
Grey Knights or Space Wolves.

GK are as elite as you can get. SW can field very few models as well, and might be more for you, if you love the norse theme of them - that and the fondness of beer should remind you of Dwarfs. ;)

Pauelor
13-03-2014, 20:11
Well, when it comes to the scenery I don't really care. As long as I'll have fluff-fun army I can even attend tournaments and lose every one of them. But I would say friendly games will dominate. My gaming community is packed with veteran WFB players, but there are some 40k players also. My first goal thou is to plant an interest for figs into my son. That is why I wanted a small army so the numbers wouldn't overwhelm the young mind. The playing is just something that will come after collecting, modelling and painting.

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Menthak
13-03-2014, 23:00
Hello WarSeer community,

I've been around for quite some time, but not until recently have I got time to sit down and think about my army - and I stumble onto an obstacle. I don't know which army to choose. I mean, I have been following WH40k rules back since 3rd edition and read all the codices that would be published henceforth, but haven't found anything of my liking. Then I thought that I would pick the brains of fellow gamers who are into the game for longer period of time. Maybe when I give you some details about my preferences will you be able to steer me into the right direction:

- my favorite Warhammer army are dwarves
- I don't like too many figs on the table
- I am fond of small, specialized forces that act quickly and deadly, or slowly, but surely, withstanding a lot of punishment
- I am both keen on shooting and fighting up-close
- I like troops and vehicles both the same
- I am really fluff-wise oriented player
- Physical over psychic powers, but not neglectic the latter either
- I don't mind converting, green stuffing and spending many hours painting a single fig

Any thoughts? There are just so many armies out there and I really would like to focus my attention on a single one, especially that it would be my first army ever collected.

Thanks in advance guys,

P.K.

All except for fluff screams GK there.

tiger g
13-03-2014, 23:23
Vanilla marines. Kids love them and will be able to help you paint them, your table, his arms, etc

Kingly
14-03-2014, 01:28
Grey Knights have got a glass jaw.

I would say an Immortal led Necron force.

Iron hard Jaw, decent close range elite units.

awsome figures, and easy to paint to boot!

Fluffy and awsome.

Pauelor
16-03-2014, 20:24
What bout the other side of the road - Chaos Space Marines? Can they be considered all I am looking for?

Darnok
16-03-2014, 20:32
CSM sure offer a lot for the converter and painter. You can truly make every single model an individual - your imagination is the boundary, nothing else. On the gaming side of things, I'm not that sure. They are not bad, and can stand their ground, but are neither as elite or tough as some of the background might make you believe. On the other hand, they have access to some of the most badass single models available, the Daemon Prince of Nurgle.

I'd advise you to form some "ideal list" of what you would want to field, gaming wise, and check which army is best suited for it.

AmBlam
17-03-2014, 22:38
Hello WarSeer community,
- my favorite Warhammer army are dwarves
- I don't like too many figs on the table
- I am fond of small, specialized forces that act quickly and deadly, or slowly, but surely, withstanding a lot of punishment
- I am both keen on shooting and fighting up-close
- I like troops and vehicles both the same
- I am really fluff-wise oriented player
- Physical over psychic powers, but not neglectic the latter either
- I don't mind converting, green stuffing and spending many hours painting a single fig


Death Guard sound pretty good. They are the Nurgle Chaos army cutting a long story short. They are tough/slowly but surely type of army or could be played that way. If you take Typhus you can have plague zombies. I'd recommend looking them up before making up your mind. As said good for converting too.

Chem-Dog
18-03-2014, 01:37
+1 to Knights.

A Farsight Enclaves Battlesuit force might be an interesting option, Low model count, shooty as you like with a few finesse elements to make it less of a stand and blast army.

Pauelor
18-03-2014, 17:07
CSM sure offer a lot for the converter and painter. You can truly make every single model an individual - your imagination is the boundary, nothing else. On the gaming side of things, I'm not that sure. They are not bad, and can stand their ground, but are neither as elite or tough as some of the background might make you believe. On the other hand, they have access to some of the most badass single models available, the Daemon Prince of Nurgle.

I'd advise you to form some "ideal list" of what you would want to field, gaming wise, and check which army is best suited for it.

I am tempted. Do tell more.

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gwarsh41
18-03-2014, 19:51
Chaos space marines have some cool "relics" they can use. One of which is called "The Black Mace" It is a daemon weapon, meaning the wielder gets an additional D6 attacks. A daemon prince already has 5, so the dude has 6-11 attacks. If you take a wound from this hammer, and it doesn't kill you, you have to pass a toughness test or I am pretty sure you straight up die. So then you give the daemon prince Mark Of Nurgle, making him tougher to kill, wings, which let him fly, and if you want, armor. He comes out to be one of the single beefiest dudes in the game, only bowing to a few models in the game, a Nurgle Daemon Prince from the Chaos Daemons Codex is capable of instantly killing nearly anything, and is just as fast.

Chaos, alike space wolves, has a lot of really cool options for their heroes. You could give your lord a bike, and have him lead a unit of gibberring spawn into battle. His bike could spew flames that would melt your enemies armor and flesh. Almost every unit in the book can be given a daemonic mark that changes an attribute. Your chaos marines of nurgle might fill a different role than your chaos marines of Slaanesh. You also have access to some of the oldest and most foul characters of mankind in the game. One of them can turn cultist troops into zombies and lead a horde of them into battle.

You also get a mechanical dragon that melts everything but the strongest armored models.

The weaknesses of Chaos are that your lords and leaders MUST always issue a challenge, even if it is unwinnable. They are not as strong willed as space wolves, they can break combat to flee and be run down, where space marines cannot. They also miss out on a few fun toys that space marines get, like drop pods.
On the plus side, you can ally in DAEMONS, and bring arguably the biggest and baddest monsters in the game (part of why I love daemons)

I would suggest getting some lore on both via lexicanum. Lore is a huge driving force for me in my modeling and gaming, without passion there is no point in playing!

Pauelor
19-03-2014, 10:34
I am more and more tempted. How's the gameplay?

I know it's a bit of a longshot, but could anyone write a brief note about every army? Quick reference about thier advantages and disadvantages? Thanks.

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