PDA

View Full Version : Toughest opponent for DE?



TheBearminator
18-03-2014, 09:55
Don't know if this belongs here. But so far I've only played my DE (venom spam list with warriors, blaster born and some wyches) against Tyranids (previous codex) and space wolves. Both seemed pretty easy opponents for my DE. Tyranids was pretty expected, but I hadn't thought my poison weapons would put down Space Marines so fast.

It got me thinking, what is the nightmare opponents for DE? I'm thinking drop troops, as they so easily take down hidden vehicles. Maybe mech Orks? Armies with lots of fast low armoured transports?

Ironbone
18-03-2014, 10:26
I would say other DE. You know fully well each other tricks :p.

But seroiusly - Nekrons and Tau IMHO. Lots of strong dakka to erease unit after unit, and in case of crons - flyers, against wich DE do not have many ways to dealt with. Not unwinable, but preety hard fight.

Krucifus
18-03-2014, 10:37
My DE's worst matchup is Imperial Guard. Every poison shot feels like its wasted on a Guardsmen (seriously, at 4+ to wound I may as well be firing lasguns back at them!)

Rabbitden
18-03-2014, 12:36
Hi, Bearminator.
Blood Angels seem to bother me the most. They're pretty quick at getting into combat and then mince you up. What's your army list look like?

Vipoid
18-03-2014, 12:38
My toughest matchups are Guard and Tau.

Necrons are tough, but (with the lists I've played against at least) they never feel insurmountable. Their vehicles are tough, but usually few in number - and lances are pretty strong against their shields. Their troops are tough, but I have the manoeuvrability to focus fire - hopefully killing a unit at a time (and thus denying them RP). Their guns are strong, but short-ranged - which aids in the outmanoeuvring (plus, Night Shields are a real pain for them).

Against IG though, poison becomes a liability - since suddenly I'm paying a good deal of points for weapons that wound T3 on a 4+. And, guard can have a *lot* of infantry to get through. Furthermore, we have very few blasts or flamer weapons and so can't rely on those either. Also, they just have a ton of weapons that obliterate both my vehicles and my infantry - and many have far greater range them mine, making it very hard for my to, for example, attack just one flank. And, even if I can find some cover that will shield my vehicles from part of his army, the many S8+ blasts they have access to makes grouping my vehicles together a very dubious prospect. Also, I'd think that Lances would be pretty good against Leman Russ tanks... nope. Maybe I'm just unlucky in this regard, or perhaps my own vehicle casualties are so high I can't get off enough return-fire, but I just can't seem to kill those things. Usually I'll have killed one by the end of the game, and maybe scraped a couple of hull pints off another.

Tau have similar issues in terms of poison. In fact, just the basic Tau Fire Warriors make me feel completely outmatched. My troops have 24" weapons that wound them on 4s (and they get a 4+ save), they have 30" weapons that kill my troops on 2s, and that can also penetrate my vehicles. Oh, and their troops cost exactly the same as mine. Regardless, Tau are one of those armies that just seem to have a perfect answer to anything I can do:

Poison? Basic troops are T3, their only MC has a 2+ save.
Cover/Jink? Various weapons of theirs ignore cover, and Markerlights remove it for any that don't.
Vehicles? As above, even their basic guns are S5. Really, just about anything in the Tau army can obliterate DE vehicles.
Infantry? Again, I draw your attention to the S5 guns that ignore our crappy armour saves. Plus various other blasts, flamers and such that turn infantry to paste.
Shooting? Well, it doesn't help that the vast majority of our anti-infantry is poison (see above), and also AP5.
Close Combat? Well, for a start, have fun pointing out which Raider/Venom contains your incubi - then watching as a dozen laser-beads are drawn on it. And, if by some miracle you do make it near them, enjoy the fact that every Tau unit within 6" gets to overwatch you.
Outmanoeuvre them? Well, it's a lot harder to do when their weapons out-range yours - often by a considerable margin. in addition, they have quite a few manoeuvrability tricks of their own - like Crisis teams that can pop out, shoot you, then jump back behind cover.

I guess it doesn't help that we're supposed to be glass-cannons, but compared to Tau shooting I end up feeling like a glass water pistol.

TheBearminator
18-03-2014, 13:06
I get what you're saying vipoid. I can recall several times during my 40k career that I would like to have seen tau banned outright. Like before the 4th edition Ork Codex was released. ;)

My list (painted models only):
Archon with blaster and venom blade
5 warriors with a blaster in venom with extra sc
5 warriors with a blaster in venom with extra sc
5 haywire wyches in venom with extra sc
4 blaster born in venom with extra sc
3 scourges
3 reaver jet bikes with cc and blaster

carldooley
18-03-2014, 13:35
toughest matchup? Knights. good luck getting that poison to do anything to AV13.

A.T.
18-03-2014, 13:47
toughest matchup? Knights. good luck getting that poison to do anything to AV13.Plenty of lances and haywire for that in many DE lists, better off than some.

Ironbone
18-03-2014, 13:49
Well knights are hard matchup to anyone without good AT, but haywire wiches should make short work on them ( on averange 7 hits to bring down a full health knight ). Just delivering them do cc might be a git problem, but that depends more on other side firepower and terrain.

Denny
18-03-2014, 13:56
My DE's worst matchup is Imperial Guard. Every poison shot feels like its wasted on a Guardsmen (seriously, at 4+ to wound I may as well be firing lasguns back at them!)

This.

The tanks can be a pain too. Anything based on a chimera chassis has armour 12 . . . making those lances a bit of a waste. Dark Eldar lack a good ranged weapon for taking out large numbers of medium armour (like autocannons).

My first games were against pure mech guard and it was a struggle.
On the plus side it helped me learn my army very quickly . . .

Chem-Dog
18-03-2014, 14:21
Ranged Guard.
Your poisoned weapons are working at less than optimum levels against the grunts (being wounded 4's is like a holiday for Guardsmen) and we've got more than a couple of ways of blowing your sneaky little skimmers to smithereens long before your little, brittle units get close enough to do any harm. And even Lasguns are wounding Eldar on 4+, which again is something like a holiday for guardsmen.

Oh and I LOVE squads with Heavy Flamers getting charged by small Wych units :evilgrin:

Commissar Merces
18-03-2014, 14:38
IG for sure.

TheBearminator
18-03-2014, 15:02
So, don't play against IG, Tau, Blood Angels? ;)

Vipoid
18-03-2014, 15:21
TheBearminator, are you looking for suggestions regarding your list?

TheBearminator
18-03-2014, 16:00
TheBearminator, are you looking for suggestions regarding your list?

A few good general advice would be very welcome. Don't think I'll be up against Tau or IG a lot, but drop troops concern me a little.

Camman1984
18-03-2014, 16:08
Drop troops arent too bad other than the alpha strike. A drop pod squad is planting its flag and has limited mobilty after that. Keep vulnerable models cordoned in by terrain during deployment so the pods are harder to place effectively. Then after turn 1 when he has used his drop pod assault. Use your better manauverability to lrave him standing.

Vipoid
18-03-2014, 16:23
Well, my main concerns are with the 3 Scourges and 3 Reavers - both squads just seem too small to accomplish anything meaningful. The Scourges are incredibly fragile and don't bring much - with no special weapons they're putting out fewer shots than a venom and at half the range. Also, regardless of unit size, I'd use either CCs or a special weapon on Reavers - since you can't use both in the same turn. I suggest you focus on just one of these and bring it up to 5 (for the scourges) or 6 (for the reavers), which will allow you to get 2 special weapons.

My other concern is that 5/6 missions in 6th involve objectives, yet you have just 15 troops - and they're among the most fragile troops in the game (the wyches also seem more like a suicide-squad). Do you actually find your troops sufficient to capture objectives?

TheBearminator
18-03-2014, 17:17
Thanks for your suggestions! I know that some of the unit builds are really stupid. The plan is 5 scourges with 2 splinter cannons and 6 reavers with 2 CC:s and perhaps some magnetised weapons. It's a good point that you can't use both in the same turn. It'll probably be CC:s most of the time for me. I like going fast and scoring hits while doing it.

But I'm much more of an airbrusher than a brush painter. So it'll be a razorwing, three more venoms with a mix of warriors and wyches and perhaps some Incubi as they're cool. :-)

Lanacane
19-03-2014, 17:06
Don't know if this belongs here. But so far I've only played my DE (venom spam list with warriors, blaster born and some wyches) against Tyranids (previous codex) and space wolves. Both seemed pretty easy opponents for my DE. Tyranids was pretty expected, but I hadn't thought my poison weapons would put down Space Marines so fast.

It got me thinking, what is the nightmare opponents for DE? I'm thinking drop troops, as they so easily take down hidden vehicles. Maybe mech Orks? Armies with lots of fast low armoured transports?

Smart ones.

Doesnt really matter on the army list that faces you, as long as the guy wielding it knows how to use his army and how to combat yours, THEY will be the toughest.

(i just cant wait to see how that will be misquoted)

In terms of actual armies?

necrons based on the amount of flyers they can harness which DE doesnt have a real counter to

can you name on one hand how many field the flyers?

druchii
19-03-2014, 23:26
I'd also think that Eldar would be a problem. Serpent spam crushes pretty much any sort of skimmer circus their dark buddies can bring. Tossing out ignores cover S7 (probably TL)shots, cooupled with 4-7 TL s6 Shots will ruin a venom/raider's day. And once your dudes are on the ground there's not much hope of pinning down fast skimmers.

I'm not even talking about the dudes INSIDE the skimmers, either.

That being said any army that mitigates the effects of so much poison (like tau and guard) and has a decent level of firepower (especially with ignores cover, or rerolling cover saves, like...tau and guard) will be rough.

IF it makes you feel better you'd absolutely maul my poor wraithwall list.

d

Nurgling Chieftain
20-03-2014, 00:41
Fighting Wraith lists with Dark Eldar just makes me feel bad. :(

Ghazbad_Facestompa
20-03-2014, 01:31
Tau and IG have always been my hardest games.

TheBearminator
20-03-2014, 10:40
Fighting Wraith lists with Dark Eldar just makes me feel bad. :(

What? Wraith lists shouldn't be much of problem. They survive on their high toughness, and you kill them on at least 4+ with regular splinter weapons?

Edit: Sorry. I misunderstood what you were saying. Yeah, the poison weapons of DE is really a rock, paper, scissors thing. Sometimes it's ridiculously effective. And the sheer amount of bs4 shots they can spit out is almost absurd. It's not only a threat to monsters and wraith lists. When my space wolf pal first encountered my venom list he was like "wait a minute, did you say each splinter cannon gives you 6 36" poison shots, for a total of 12? On a transport?!" :D