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View Full Version : First VC Army Lists: 1,000pts and 1,500pts



Oogie boogie boss
18-03-2014, 10:40
So i've been pondering starting a VC army fr a while now, just as a side project and to provide a bit of variety from my Savage Orcs, and I finally took the plunge and bought the army book the other day. The theme I'm going for is the remnants of a defeated Empire/Bretonnian/generic human force. So, no gribbly monsters or any of the more 'hammer horror' elements. Just good ol' fashioned dead people.

The first list is the 1,000pts list I'll start off working towards, with the 1,500pts one the planned expansion. Never played against or with VC, so any comments, criticisms and such would be great.

1,000pts

Heroes:
Vampire: Heavy Armour, Shield, Aura of Dark Majesty- 141pts

Necromancer: Lvl. 2- 100pts

Core:
30 Skeletons: Command, Spears, Screaming Banner- 205pts

30 Skeletons: Command, Spears- 180pts

40 Zombies: Standard Bearer- 125pts

Special:
20 Grave Guard: Command- 250pts

Total: 1,001pts

1,500pts

Heroes:
Vampire: Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Red Fury, Sword of Battle- 182pts

Necromancer: Lvl. 2- 100pts

Wight King: Shield, BSB, Banner of Eternal Flame- 124pts

Core:
30 Skeletons: Command, Spears, Screaming Banner- 205pts

30 Skeletons: Command, Spears- 180pts

40 Zombies: Standard Bearer- 125pts

Special:
29 Grave Guard: Command, Banner of Barrows- 379pts

6 Black Knights: Command, Lances, Barding, Lichebone Pennant- 201pts

Total: 1,497pts

So, like I said, any advice or criticism would be welcome. I'll be mainly playing against Dwarves, WoC, Goblins, Lizardmen, Beastmen and Brets, if that helps. :skull:

Oogie boogie boss
19-03-2014, 08:47
So.....good? Bad? Anyone have any advice?


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AM1640
19-03-2014, 15:51
Hello, welcome to the night.
1000 pt list:
Which model will be the general? If it is the necro then which unit will they be in? Since you are limited on points I can understand not giving them magic item protection but you can put them in a bunker and protect it. If you are using the vamp, then it is a waste to put them in a bunker, but without enough protection they could die and then you will lose.
The skeleotns are a good unit. I prefer sword and shield for the parry save, but you do get a few more attacks with spears (these attacks don't do much as WS 2, S3, but it isn't much of a difference)
40 zombies is alot of zombies for a bunker but not enough for a combat/tarpit unit. You need to decide what role this unit will play. Don't worry that the models will be wasted since after a couple of casting of IoN there will be an extra 25 or more models go on the table.
I would try and find the points (drop some zombies) to get GW on the GG so they can kill something. 20 models is enough in a 1000 point army.
1500 points:
Same as above, your vamp looks squishy, I would try and get some sort of ward or regen save on him.
What unit will the wight King BSB go in? Is the flame banner necessary, because again the BSB is very squishy.
The black knights are ok, but I wouldn't bother with the lichebone pennant.
You could try and work in a cheap chaff/re-director unit such as dire wolves, spirit swarm, or fell bat. This would help in using the black knights.

Oogie boogie boss
20-03-2014, 09:39
Thanks for the advice! In both lists the Vamp will be the general (as is only right, he is aristocracy after all). The idea is to stick the vamp in the Skeleton unit with the Screaming Banner for a mini fear-bomb and provide some combat punch, while the Necro will be placed behind the Zombies to boost them up in side (a big undead meat shield, if you will). The hope is that by the time they get in to combat they'll be around 60 strong.
I see what you mean about the Vamp, but I'm hoping that in 1,000pts there won't be too much to worry him, and with the ability to regain wounds from the Vampiric rule and the Curse of Undeath lore attribute, I'm hoping it'll keep him going.

In the 1,500pts army, I may as you suggest drop the Lichebone Pennant and Flaming Banner to give the GG great weapons. The Wight King BSB will go in here to again provide some combat punch and these will probs be the centre of my line. The the Sellies with the Vamp on one side, Zombies on the other, and the second skellie unit next to them. Black Knights to go on the flank of the Vamp's Skellie unit. So it'll look something like this in ideal circumstance-

S--Z--GG--S(incl V)--BK
N

May try and scrounge the points to give the Vamp the Talisman of Endurance.......

My worry is whether or not there's enough punch in the army. The theme I've gone for means I won't be using Varghulfs, Vargheists, Crypt Horrors, etc. and I'm not sure if the GG and BK will carry the combat weight. The Vamp will do some damage, and the GG too, but with only 1 attack each (even with Killing Blow) and low I and WS, i'm not sure how well they'll do against enemy elites.

Vipoid
20-03-2014, 11:23
List 1:

- Your Vampire is not going to accomplish anything meaningful. At best, Vampires tend to be glass cannons - who can (with the right vampire powers) dish out a lot of wounds, but are still only T4 with poor saves. Unfortunately, lacking both a magic weapon and and combat vampire powers, your vampire is more like a glass pea-shooter. AoDM isn't enough to justify him. Personally, I'd be tempted to trade both him and your Lv2 Necromancer for a Lv4 Master Necromancer - which will give you more spells, make casting them easier and give you a greater dispelling presence.

- If you take the above advice, I'd split your zombies into 2 units - one to bunker your Master Necromancer at the back, and one to go forward and tarpit something for a few turns.

- Conversely, I'd recommend joining your skeletons into a single unit - units of 30 just aren't survivable.

- I'd want at least 25 GG, and you really want them to have great weapons. Perhaps drop some skeletons to pay for this.

- You really shouldn't be going over the point limit - even by 1pt. At worst, it means you're using an illegal list, and at best (i.e. if your opponent permits it) it's still a bad habit.

As you've already surmised, your list lacks punch. I think one problem is that you're spending too much on core - with VC you really don't want to take any more than the minimum core. It might be worth going down to 40 skeletons and 20 zombies, and spending the rest on your grave guard (get Banner of the Barrows, if you can) - since they're the unit that's likely to actually do something.

1500pts:

- At this point level, I wouldn't bother with a Wight King; let alone a BSB. I'd suggest swapping him and the Lv2 for a Master Necromancer.

- I'd strongly advise swapping out Sword of Battle on your Vampire for something else - e.g. Sword of Swift Slaying (ASF rerolls will be a lot more useful than an extra attack - especially with Red Fury).

- Have you considered mounting your vampire and putting him with the Black Knights? That way, he can at least have a solid armour save.

- I'd want a dispel scroll - maybe on your Master Necromancer, if you take my advice.

- As above, I'd go down to 20 zombies and however many skeletons you need to fill out the rest of your core (minimum 40 though). Spend the rest bolstering your GG and BK units.

- Your black knight unit seems much too small. As it stands, you're looking at 7 WS3 attacks on the charge, which amount to 3-4 hits. I'd want closer to 10 models (or 9 and the vampire).

- Again, I'd want Great Weapons on the GG - otherwise you'll have very little that can deal with good armour saves. I'd also want more of them (40 in a horde would be ideal, but I don't think you'll reach that at this point level). But, I'd probably bolster the BKs first and then buy some more GG if I had points left over.

Anyway, hope this helps. :)

Oogie boogie boss
20-03-2014, 11:54
Interesting points. How about these revised lists? Don't want to go with a Master Necro, I prefer to have the combat punch of the Vamp. Think you're right about the GG having great weapons for the added punch. For the moment though I'm going to keep the BK as the are so they can function as combat tippers/chaff clearers. Also want to keep the General in the infantry so that as much of the army as possible can march.

Thanks for the advice. :)

1,000pts

Heroes:
Vampire: Heavy Armour, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield- 136pts

Necromancer: Lvl. 2- 100pts

Core:
40 Skeletons: Command, Spears, Screaming Banner- 255pts

37 Zombies: Standard Bearer- 116pts

Special:
30 Grave Guard: Command, Great Weapons- 250pts

Total: 1,000pts

1,500pts

Heroes:
Vampire: Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Red Fury, Sword of Swiftslaying- 189pts

Necromancer: Lvl. 2- 100pts

Wight King: Great Weapon- 90pts

Core:
31 Skeletons: Command, Spears, Screaming Banner- 210pts

30 Skeletons: Command, Spears- 180pts

40 Zombies: Standard Bearer- 125pts

Special:
30 Grave Guard: Command, Great Weapons, Banner of Barrows- 420pts

6 Black Knights: Command, Lances, Barding- 186pts

Total: 1,500pts

Vipoid
20-03-2014, 12:45
I think those lists look more solid. But:

- In both cases, your general is very flimsy. And, bear in mind your opponent will be doing everything he can to kill him. I'd suggest something like Tasliman of Endurance, Enchanted Shield and maybe Sword of Striking. That gives you a 3+/5+ and lets you hit most enemies on 4s.

- In your first list, I'd consider dropping the Necromancer, making the Vampire Lv2 and giving him some powers (probably Red Fury). The thing is, a vampire without any powers is, at best, a mediocre combat character - but he needs to be a lot better if he wants to make up for all the CR his unit will bleed.

- With regard to the second list, I'd still recommend merging your skeletons into 1 big block - 30 skeletons won't last long at all.

- Also, consider giving your Wight King Nightshroud. Then, put your vampire in the corner of his unit, and the WK next to him - that way, almost anything wanting to attack the vampire will be subject to Nightshroud (which should help your vampire's poor survivability).

Oogie boogie boss
20-03-2014, 13:27
Hmmm, you may have a point re: the second list. Might merge the Skellie units as you suggest, and use the 30pts saved from the command to givee the Vamp the Talisman of Endurance. That way I think I can get away with keeping the Wight King cheap and use him purely for kills. As for the killiness of the Vamp in the first list, in 1,000pts I'm okay with 4 ST6 attacks tbh. That's enough hitting power to deal with most hero level characters and should be enough to put a dent in rank-and-file without too much stress. I'm also reluctant to put too many points into characters, just based on my local meta.

Thanks for the advice, been really helpful. This army may take a while to put together, but I may start a blog and keep those who are interested updated. :)

Kayosiv
20-03-2014, 16:02
I'm also of the opinion that if you're taking a wight king, and he's not your battle standard bearer, you shouldn't be taking a wight king. For 25 points you can reduce a unit's crumble by 2 every combat you lose. That pays for itself in a single combat.

Oogie boogie boss
21-03-2014, 09:19
I think it's one of those things where I'll need to play a few games with and without before i'll see how important the BSB is to the army. Nothing's going to be running away, but as you say the minuses to crumble could make a difference. Still, 90pts for a T5, 3 wound hero with 3 ST6 attacks and LD9 is a good deal, and could be handy for absorbing some challenges and limiting casualties on my GG. Plus I like the model. =P

Moss
22-03-2014, 00:47
I think both lists have a severe lack of chaff units. Both would be greatly improved by the addition of even a single spirit host.

In the first list, you can afford to drop a handful of GG to get the points.

In the second list, you may not want to make the unit any smaller, but I would find the points somehow; as it stand, you have nothing to help pick your fights.

Oogie boogie boss
22-03-2014, 14:06
If I drop the wight king in the second list I can afford a couple of spirit hosts, but I'm not sure which will bring more to the army- the kills of the WK or the tactical drops of the SH.

In the first list I could drop 5 GG for a SH, but is one worth it? Not sure I want to make the GG any smaller than 25.....


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Moss
22-03-2014, 15:54
In the first list I could drop 5 GG for a SH, but is one worth it? Not sure I want to make the GG any smaller than 25.....
Yes, I very much believe it is worth it. I think 25 GG is plenty for 1000pt games, and zero chaff makes it easier for your opponent to simply avoid this unit. Your spirit host will be invaluable.


If I drop the wight king in the second list I can afford a couple of spirit hosts, but I'm not sure which will bring more to the army- the kills of the WK or the tactical drops of the SH.
I again believe it's worth it, but you seem to really like the idea of a WK so I won't try and talk you out of it.

Vipoid
22-03-2014, 17:06
With regard to the first list, couldn't you drop some zombies instead?

Oogie boogie boss
24-03-2014, 13:49
I could do I guess. Just like to have a solid backbone of core from the outset. A few bad magic phases and a reduced zombie unit will crumble too easily. This is going to sound like a really noob question, but how exactly do ethereal units work?

Moss
25-03-2014, 00:16
They treat all terrain as open, cannot have their movement reduced by any means, have magical attacks, and can only be hurt by spells/magical attacks.

That last part forces your opponent to decide between spending his power dice on magic missiles or potentially having his stegadon/chariot/whatever tied up indefinitely.

Oogie boogie boss
25-03-2014, 08:01
Don't they still take wounds from static combat res?


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Vipoid
25-03-2014, 11:03
Don't they still take wounds from static combat res?

Yes, so you can't just charge them into ranked-infantry and expect to hold them up all game.

Aside from tarpitting monsters/chariots though, you only want them as redirectors - so it doesn't really matter if they die when charged.

Oogie boogie boss
25-03-2014, 12:23
Ah, I see. They do sound like a useful unit, especially as my mate's Lizardmen army has loads of Skinks, which could be annoying. May have to invest in a couple of bases and toy around with using the army with and without them.