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Fupduck
19-03-2014, 11:02
Don't you think it's ironical that the list right under mine happens to be 2500 Dwarfs? Just like when I posted my Tomb King list there just, conveniently, happened to be another 13 or so other Tomb King lists? I swear that there's something beard-stroking worthy going on here... :shifty:

Either way, after a bit of revision, I banged together something that is largely experimental, but, like all dwarfish projects likely to work after it explodes a few hundred times.

Heroes
Grimm Burlocksson
This guy has a self lighting pipe. Yes, read that again. A SELF LIGHTING PIPE. All he needs is a self filling tankard, so much bling it would stone a medusa and an attitude as dark as Sandor Clegane's, and he would be the Epitome (capital E required) of swag. The fact that he gives irondrakes re-rolls to hit, entrentches a warmachine and has a shotgun is, of course nice but... SELF LIGHTING PIPE.

Thane - Shield, BSB, MRoGrungi @153pts
Rigged, as always. 5++ against shooting is, like, right in there baby. And the idea of a midget with anger managment issues pounding someone with a pixie magic standard seems appealing.

Runesmith - Shield, RoSpellbreaking @88pts
Runesmith - Shield, RoSpellbreaking, RotForge @93pts
The steaming pile of BS returns, this time with double the shlite (stupid autocorrect, I mean, swearwordcancellerthing). As I said previously, I would really rather not these guys but of course the all restintant and defying magic since the beginning of the world dwarfs get nothing better than one of these pieces of goat excrement. And, accordingly, MRoValaya isn't what it promised to be, so magic needs to be defended against with Runesmith. It makes me want to kick Matt Ward (generally I would like to kick Matt Ward). Sigh.

Core Units
40x Longbeards, Great Weapons, Full Command, RoStoicism @625pts
The amount of anger in this unit... it's almost as bad as my grandma with a stick stuck up her ****. 40 attacks with hitting on rage and wounding on hate is pretty damn hilarious - granted that your not the poor sod on thereceiving end. Welp, I do pay my 625 compulsory core to amuse myself.

Special Units
Cannon
Cannon
Cannon
They shoot things so hard they become pieces of art. (That got old the first time you said it Fupduck... not that it wasn't particularly good the first time anyway)

Grudge Thrower - RoAccuracy @105pts
Grudge Thrower - RoAccuracy, RoBurning @110pts
Now this... this is the trollhammer (love that name) of T3 armies. Skavens, Goblinses, Men... unless your a saurus+ this is gonna hurt you. And given the fact that units are taken large now, grudge throwers are so much the better. Side note: interesting fact - grudge throwers w/ RoAccuracy, as I recently discovered, are surprisingly good at killing non ++ save monsters and warmachines. I mean it's S9 w/ D3 wounds, and both will be models under the hole (that sounds really kinky) which take that S9 D3 wounds hit. Heh. Who would have guessed.

Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
How to be Great Eagles. But better.

Rare Units
18x Irondrakes - Standard, RoStrollaz @315pts
Vanguarding Irondrakes... lol. Shame that this unit attracts all the hate ('specially because it has Grimm in it), but, ultimately, worthwhile. The one runesmith I put in this unit helps with those unfortunate CCs, but mostly stand and shoot piles the casualties surprisingly way (thanks Dwarf Crafted).

Flame Cannon - Rune of Forging @165pts
Holy <insert farm animal here>. I played against skaven and ogres the other day with this thing... ye whatever you dwarfish gods are called. Burn. Burn and scream and call the TO to accuse me of cheating, you little twelve year old.


Taktics:

I'm not really one to go into this, keeping battleplans concise, and so I shall. The Longbeard unit with the Thane and a Runesmith plonk themselves between the enemy and the warmachines were their job is to, largely, hit things that come to close. The Irondrakes sweep around one flank and, along with the Flame Cannons, deal out the pain. On a distant hill, for preference, I place this nice line of 5 warmachines whose job is to blow things up (and, in turn, not get blown up). Gyrocopter are gyrocopters. Done.

AM1640
19-03-2014, 14:46
Entertaining as always. Have you produced any battle reports???
The nearly all shooty dwarf army, I think most shooty armies are going to include Grimm, he is too good not to include (self lighting pipe aside. What is in his pipe?)
I feel confident in saying that anything that survives your shooting, and if your opponent hasn't just given up or punched you, then you still have 2 combat units. Yes 2, the irondrakes can fight in close combat just as well as most other races' infantry, especially if they are only facing half or less of a unit.
Long beards with GW, ummm. I know you have to fill core requirements, but are 40 LB with GW the best bang for your buck? Would regular dwarf warriors with GW be better as you would have more bodies, or even LB with HW&Sh as an anvil (a killy anvil). What are your plans with this combat unit? If you are going to stay stationary (a majority of your army is move or shoot), then why not thunderers or quarrellers. I realize that you probably want at least 1 dedicated combat unit int he army but if they spend most of the game just standing around drinking beer and complaining about things then aren't the points kinda wasted compared with a shooty core unit. Other than that it will provide some fun as you blast the opponent into smithereens or watch all your war machines blow up (it can still happen), and you better make it entertaining and fun for your opponent because they are likely to hate playing this army.

TheRupert
19-03-2014, 21:15
I love the idea of this list...but there's one problem...who is the General? Grimm can't be the General because the Thane's leadership is higher. And the Thane can't be the General because he's the BSB. :(

Fupduck
20-03-2014, 04:25
Have you produced any battle reports???


One day. One day.



I think most shooty armies are going to include Grimm, he is too good not to include (self lighting pipe aside. What is in his pipe?)


What is in his pipe? Weed, mostly.



What are your plans with this combat unit?


Really depends. Against running and screaming and pissing themselves armies, this lot stands around and waits for the inevitable CC to come to them. If I'm facing wood elves, or empire or whatever army largely relies on shooting, then they press forward. I'm not going to bring the fight to the enemy on dwarfish legs, but why bother when the enemy comes at you?



If they spend most of the game just standing around drinking beer and complaining about things then aren't the points kinda wasted compared with a shooty core unit.


If they do wind up spending the whole game drinking bear and complaining, then it'll probably about the fact that this game isn't fun anymore, those war machines are too OP and need nerf, and how 2 editions ago games were won with heroes and with cavalry (shut up Longbeards, Dwarfs don't even have cavalry) and some good dwarfish steel, not by standing on a hill and shooting things.



Grimm can't be the General because the Thane's leadership is higher. And the Thane can't be the General because he's the BSB. :(


We solve this predicament by reading: "The army's General is the character with the highest Ld who isn't the BSB."

____________________

Just BTW, I tried an armylist more based on Rangers rather than Irondrakes. Unfortunately, it means that the list is completely Grimmless, but, well...

Heroes
Thane - Shield, BSB, MRoGrungi @153pts
Runesmith - GW, RoSpellbreaking, RoStone, MRoPassage (spare points) @106pts
Runesmith - GW, RoSpellbreaking, RoStone, RotF @101pts I suppose one of these two guys has to be the general
Core Units
40x Longbeards - GWs, FC, RoStoicsm @625pts
Special Units
Cannon
Cannon
Cannon
Grudge Thrower - RoA @105pts
Grudge Thrower - RoA, RoB @110pts
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Rare Units
15x Rangers - Shields @225pts
15x Rangers - Shields @225pts
Organ Gun - RoA, RoForging @170pts

TheRupert
20-03-2014, 16:59
We solve this predicament by reading: "The army's General is the character with the highest Ld who isn't the BSB."


Oops! My bad. Sorry about that!

Targ Ironfist
20-03-2014, 21:55
Hi Fupduck,

nice list You brought. A proper gunline. Many a curse will be headed Your way for this, I think. :p

Only a sidenote: I think You are missing an OG in the first one. OG is exactly the tool to solve excaped skirmishers and does a solid output against nearly anything (flame is probably better against ogres only...).

How do You like the double ranger list?

With regards

Fupduck
21-03-2014, 06:10
How do You like the double ranger list?


Well, for once, my army doesn't get so outmaneuvered (how the flak do you spell that word?) that the outmaneuvering reaches the pain threshold. In retrospect, I think that ranger's are better against certain types of lists while worse against others. Rangers are, I would assume, much better against MSU/large amounts of chaff, warmachines, lone characters and soforth while Irondrakes + Grimm do much better against armoured targets and larger units. As of such, I think the Rangers are a tad bit more useful - unless I'm playing agaist 4+ or better save WoCs, large amounts of Empire/Brettonia cavalry or otherwise a lot of heavily armoured infantry/cavalry with no warmachines or chaff to back them up, then Rangers are generally more useful than Irondrakes. Rangers, as pointed out a few times already, also really help against Vanguard-happy armies and give dwarfs a response to things such as warmachines or "small arms" firepower against MSU that otherwise aren't provided.

Nonetheless, in the double ranger list, I have a lot less staying power in CC (typically, if things are going badly, then the Rangers/Longbeards get isolated and picked off one by one) and significantly less bodies to hold the line together. And Runesmith's aren't particularly great Generals, not because I'm overly concerned about Ld but because they die damnably easily, which is flinging 100 VPs to my opponent.

Targ Ironfist
21-03-2014, 06:42
And Runesmith's aren't particularly great Generals, not because I'm overly concerned about Ld but because they die damnably easily, which is flinging 100 VPs to my opponent.

Yep. I know. This is the reason I took a lord for the job. I loose shooting, but unless in a two fully runed up OG army the shooting does not do so much one would expect (consistently).
All my field test seem to show that shooting is probably best in a surgical way. You remove/limit certain threats and the rest is left to the old fashioned way with hammers and axes.

I have a huge problem not to loose those super expencive war machines to a realy determined enemy (unless castling realy tight!).
Sort of hoping You will let us know of how Your field tests with artillery did go...

Outmanouvered, unless I am heavily mistaken. ;)

Fupduck
24-03-2014, 09:50
This is the reason I took a lord for the job.

Ideas.



All my field test seem to show that shooting is probably best in a surgical way. You remove/limit certain threats and the rest is left to the old fashioned way with hammers and axes.


Very true. This does, unfortunately, make dwarfs somewhat reliant on the good dice rolling, as if your dice rolls suck for the first 2 turns, you are a dead [Fup]duck. On the other hand, statistically at least, with 5+ war machines you are bound to eventually get a good roll or two.



I have a huge problem not to loose those super expencive war machines to a realy determined enemy (unless castling realy tight!).


Exactly what I do. Unless really forced, my dwarfish armanda will not move a step. They'll stand there, and they'll wait. If my enemy wishes to sit there and have a shooting contest with me, then, hehe, beardlings these days. Other than that, my infantry blocks/gyrocopters move in and/or make a living and hairy barricade to engage/stop chaffers. The key is to keep shooting for as long as possible.



Sort of hoping You will let us know of how Your field tests with artillery did go...


I certainly will. If I get the time.

_____________

Edition tres of the list:

Lords
Dwarf Lord - GW, Shieldbearers, 2xRoI, RoStone, 3x RoW @286pts
Heroes
Thane - Shield, BSB, MRoGrungi @153pts
Runesmith - Shield, RoSpellbreaking @88pts
Runesmith - Shield, RoSpellbreaking, RotF @93pts
Master Engineer
Core Units
35x Dwarf Warriors - Sheilds, Standard, Musician @335pts
26x Dwarf Warriors - GWs, FC, @290pts
Special Units
Cannon
Cannon
Cannon
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Grudge Thrower - RoA, RoB @110pts
Grudge Thrower - RoA @105pts
Rare Units
Organ Gun - RoA, RoF @170pts
Organ Gun

This list, out of all three, has the most staying power in CC, the angry Astrix & Obelix cheiftain Dwarf Lord dealing and soaking surprising amounts of damage while 7 warmachines and 4 gyrocopters blast away. Pray that enemies take little chaff/anti-Warmachine is my main strategy.

Targ Ironfist
24-03-2014, 16:29
Hi Fupduck,

I would recommend few minor tweaks to Your list.

1/Change warriors with shields into stubborn LBs with shields (RoStoicism, of course).
2/Get a RoAccuracy on that second OG. With Engineer it should be pretty fine. (One Grudge thrower can be easily without the accuracy, just plain old stone thrower fun).

With two runed up organ guns and the engineer to look after the non forging one, You should be fine.

Last tweak to think about: Get a small tactical ranger squad instead of that gyrocopter. Stopping enemy vanguard is huge for any gunline.

Sidenote on grudge thrower output: Grudge is as stone thrower and that has a D6 wound output. Has that been FAQued?

Surgical enemy removal and dice rolling: Yes, even our max runed up cannon can miss far too often (mine do that from time to time) leaving us dry. Thats why I try to have a second and a third plan up my sleeve. Not so easy, I tell You... :D

With regards

Fupduck
25-03-2014, 06:16
Okay, I think I have a final idea of what I might like. It's a bit gambly with only 1 RS as far as magic is concerned, but in this list, I chose to make the Engineer the General. Might die a bit less then.

Heroes
Thane - Shield, BSB, MRoGrungi
Runesmith - Shield, RoSpellbreaking, RoStone @93pts
Master Engineer - RoShielding @95pts (General)
Core Units
44x Longbeards - Shields, FC, RoStoicism
Special Units
Cannon
Cannon
Cannon
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Grudge Thrower - RoA, RoB @110pts
Grudge Thrower - RoA @110pts
Rare Units
11x Rangers - Shields @165pts
11x Rangers - Shields @165pts
Organ Gun - RoA, RoF @170pts
Organ Gun - RoB @125pts (to make it magical)

With 37 points to spare. 2 points to spare. Can't really get another RoA on the currently barebones organ gun, as I'm 5 points off capping my rare choices... EDIT: Lulwut, found something called a Rune of Shielding which gives my ME General a 2++ against shooting. Wadda ya know.

With this list, I'm much less concerned about the chaff and much more about enemy magicks. I decided to drop the second Runesmith as having 2 of them in one unit is awfully redundant - the only real benefit I get (if buying a Runesmith is beneficial rather than necessary) is an additional dispel scroll. Which, I hope at least, I can do without.

And no, Grudge Throwers do cause D6 wounds. I dunno where I got that D3 from.

As far as my back up plan goes - well, my backup plan is that my opponent is bad.

Targ Ironfist
25-03-2014, 06:57
Hi Fupduck,

get that RoAccuracy on the organ gun.
RoStone on the runesmith.
RoStone on the engineer.

You should do pretty well with this, unless bad luck hits You too badly. ;)

When it works reasonably, Your enemies will hate You as You will annihilate most of them.

Fupduck
25-03-2014, 09:45
I found this thing called a Rune of Shielding... Looks amusing, so I stuck it on my general. I can't really fit another RoA on the barebones organ gun as I'm 5 points off capping my rare choices.

The above was largely Copy and Pasted.

Targ Ironfist
25-03-2014, 23:08
Hi Fupduck,

One ranger down and RoAccuracy is there. It is realy worth it.
There is a huge difference between a maxed out OG and something in between.
You are going the heavy artillery way, so You shoud commit fully, in my opinion.

Shielding is not bad in such a list. :D
Cheap magical weapon in a much ethereal environment is not bad either. (Plan B, You know...? :D )

With regards

Fupduck
29-03-2014, 12:05
Due to being in a particularly pensive mood today, I took the liberty of overdoing the cheese:

Heroes
Thane - Shield, BSB, Master Rune of Grungni @153pts
Runesmith - Shield, RoSpellbreaking @88pts
Master Engineer (General) - @70pts
Master Engineer - @70pts
Core Units
44x Longbeards - Shields, FC, RoStoicism @637pts
Special Units
Cannon
Cannon
Cannon
Grudge Thrower - RoAccuracy, RoBurning @110pts
Grudge Thrower - RoAccuracy @105pts
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter (6 Gyrocopters)
Rare Units
Organ Gun - RoPenetrating, RoBurning @165pts
Organ Gun - RoPenetrating @160pts

Leaving me with 102 points (as strange as that sounds), which I suppose I could use for:

Bolt Thrower - RoAccuracy, FRoSeeking, RoBurning @100pts

Holy <insert vegetable here>*. I really must have been in a bad mood today.


* - Shuddup Fupduck, you used that joke already at the top of this forum.

Targ Ironfist
03-04-2014, 13:45
Very artillery-like. :D

But I think if You want it to work, You should have rangers. Stopping the enemy vanguard is crucial with this.
That is where You should put those points...

Fupduck
05-04-2014, 00:40
But I think if You want it to work, You should have rangers.


I agree with you absolutely (the above list was just a rage edition, sort of like Dark Souls is). The current version, after a few full-proxy tests is:

Heroes
Thane - Shield, BSB, MRoGrungi @153pts
Runesmith - Shield, RoStone, RoSpellbreaking, Fiery Ring of Thori @128pts
Master Engineer
Master Engineer
Core Units
29x Dwarf Warriors - GWs, FC @320pts
28x Dwarf Warriors - GWs, FC @310pts
Special Units
Cannon - RoForging, RoBurning @150pts
Cannon - RoForging @145pts
Grudge Thrower - RoAccuracy, RoBurning @110pts
Grudge Thrower - RoAccuracy @105pts
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Rare Units
Organ Gun - RoPenetrating, RoBurning @165pts
Organ Gun - RoPenetrating @160pts
10x Rangers @140pts
10x Rangers @140pts

Somewhere around 2500 points.

New tech and changes:

1. Fiery Ring of Thori - a surprisingly effective situation changer. It actually makes the Runesmith a lot scarier and my opponents were extremely reluctant to approach their T3/4 5+ save blocks of infantry to him. The breath weapon is really, really, quite good, especially against O&G, Skaven, DE and HE and other infantry-heavy/reliant type armies. Scared off chaffers as well.

2. (Taken out) RoShielding - not once was this used. Now, one might have said this was because no one would bother shooting at a 2++ body, however, IME, there was just too much target saturation in my list for my opponent to bother with the Master Engineer. And he died (against DE MSU at least) to combat anyway.

3. Dwarf Warriors contra Longbeards - I'm starting to understand that in Dwarves, tactical flexibility is more influential than a big, rectangular and hairy chunk of stubborn warriors. Yes, the Longbeards ground out more or less what touched them... no, my opponent played smart, chucked a tarpit to fight them, then casually strolled past with his other units and pounded my warmachines into oblivion.

4. Runed up cannons - I found that 3 cannons just usually resulted in 2 cannons and 1 big crater and the stench of toasted beards where a cannon used to be. 3 cannons is sort of high risk, high reward: if you don't wind up rolling misfires, then you'll probably get more benefit out of a full set of cannons. If you do roll misfires, however, you're just stuck with 2 cannons doing any significant damage. So, I'm not going to miss that 3rd cannon. Reliability over quantity, ladies and gentlemen (actually, only gentlemen. Ladies... who am I kidding?).

5. RoPenetrating - hehehe: Targ suggested complete dedication, and so I did. Not once did I regret it. S6 Organ Guns w/ Engineers rocked my way to many a victory. Being able to blow up practically anything with concerning ease is absolutely hilarious if your not the one on the receiving end of things. Cavalry, Heavy Infatry, Mosters and the were being cleaned off the table with a broom. And I'm yet to vs WoC with this list...

Targ Ironfist
09-04-2014, 11:59
Hi Fupduck,

I see You progressing pretty well. Congratulation to that.

You realised the quality issue. Good. Sometimes quantity is better, but dawi are an elite army and should be treated so, in most cases, anyway. (Even massed warriors has its good sides, though...)

Core troops:

2* GW warriors - they are fine, but I thing You will realise there is a huge advantage to a solid cornerstone - in Your case stubborn longbeards with shields. Trust me, they are worth it. You can keep Your characters in them, when appropriate - denying the enemy those crucial VPs, most of the time.
They excel against all elgi and are solid against many others. Especialy after Your heavyartillery solved a lot of the opposition.

With regards

Tato
09-04-2014, 12:35
Reliability over quantity, ladies and gentlemen (actually, only gentlemen. Ladies... who am I kidding?)

I actually have 2 women in my meta... :angel:

Fupduck
10-04-2014, 11:40
I actually have 2 women in my meta... :angel:


Well, there you go. Reality is something competely different from perception.



You realised the quality issue. Good. Sometimes quantity is better, but dawi are an elite army and should be treated so, in most cases, anyway. (Even massed warriors has its good sides, though...)


Perhaps it's a habitual thing. I'm just used to laying out my troops as: 60x Skeletons - Standard, Musician @LessThanDwarfLordpts.



Core troops:

2* GW warriors - they are fine, but I thing You will realise there is a huge advantage to a solid cornerstone - in Your case stubborn longbeards with shields. Trust me, they are worth it. You can keep Your characters in them, when appropriate - denying the enemy those crucial VPs, most of the time.
They excel against all elgi and are solid against many others. Especialy after Your heavyartillery solved a lot of the opposition.


You think so? I'll try both and see whether I like GW warrior units, or one big, immovable unit of longbeards.

Fupduck
12-04-2014, 05:11
Just BTW, and on a different note, I made more of a "combine arms" approach list. More balance, less shooting.

Heroes
Thane - Shield, BSB, MRoGrungni @153pts
Runesmith - Shield, RoSpellbreaking, RoStone @93pts
Runesmith - Shield, RoSpellbreaking, RoStone, RotForge @98pts
Master Engineer (General)
Core Units
23x Dwarf Warriors - Shields, Standard, Musician @227pts
18x Dwarf Warriors - GWs, Veteran, Musician @200pts
18x Dwarf Warriors - GWs, Veteran, Musician @200pts
Special Units
30x Hammerers - FC, MRoGrothOneEye @525pts
Cannon - RoForging, RoBurning @150pts
Cannon - RoForging @145pts
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Rare Units
Organ Gun - RoForging, RoAccuracy @170pts
Organ Gun - RoBurning @125pts

Total: 2476 points (Wut? I came in under the total?)

The trick with this list is to, essentially, keep everyone withing that all important Ld Re-roll + Stubborn bubble of the hammerers. As long as that happens, no one is running away and everyone is hitting pretty damn hard. Apart from the shield midgets. They're just there.

Targ Ironfist
12-04-2014, 15:59
You think so? I'll try both and see whether I like GW warrior units, or one big, immovable unit of longbeards.

No, thats not it. You need one GW unit as a flanker and one LB unit with RoStoicism.
That should help a lot. Trust me. :D

With regards

Fupduck
14-04-2014, 11:07
After some review, perhaps something more like the following would be more ideal?

Heroes
Thane - Shield, BSB, Master Rune of Groth One Eye @163pts
Runesmith - Shield, Fiery Ring of Thori, RoStone, RoSpellbreaking @128pts
Master Engineer (General)
Master Engineer
Core Units
25x Dwarf Warriors - Shields, Standard, Musician @245pts
17x Dwarf Warriors - GWs, Veteran, Musician @190pts
17x Dwarf Warriors - GWs, Veteran, Musician @190pts
Special Units
Cannon - RoForging, RoBurning @150pts
Cannon - RoForging @145pts
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Gyrocopter
Grudge Thrower - RoAccuracy, RoBurning @110pts
Grudge Thrower - RoAccuracy @105pts
Rare Units
10x Rangers @140pts
10x Rangers @140pts
Organ Gun - RoPenetrating, RoBurning @165pts
Organ Gun - RoPenetrating @160pts

Coming in at 2491 points.

Changes:
1. MRoGrothOneEye: The Thane still appears to be fairly survivable with a 3+/5++ parry save respectively and, more importantly, gives all the Dwarfs around him stubborn. So the three units around him are fairly reliable.
2. Core Unit set up: essentially I get a stubborn tarpit (see MRoGrothOneEye) and two, smaller, but equally stubborn units of GWs for some hard-hitting clean up/flanking. It does, unfortunately, mean that my opponent is gunning for my Thane more than he usually would, so I've kept a Veteran to take a challange for him.
3. Other than that, it's pretty much the same.

ewar
17-04-2014, 23:53
They look like some solid lists there - I can't really add anything to the discussion to make them better as I don't have the new book and haven't played against it yet.

But out of curiosity, does your gaming group mind playing against a list with 7 warmachines in? It just seems to lack any kind of player input - not moving a single model until turn 3 or 4 when the enemy has been completely obliterated. It seems from these lists that the Dwarf gunline got even stronger...

What kind of armies have you lost to? Do you play scenarios etc, I'd have thought dawn attack and meeting engagement could screw your army badly.

Targ Ironfist
18-04-2014, 13:28
Hi Fupduck,

the list with hammerers is stronger.
Groth on a 2 wound model is much less reliable. It is not completely easy to take out, but quite possible.
The non-hammerer list will get hurt in those scennarios as ewar stated: Dawn attack and Meeting engagement.

With regards

Fupduck
19-04-2014, 09:07
The list with hammerers is stronger.


I think I'm bending more towards the "hybrid" dwarf army set up, i.e.:

1 Grungni Thane
2 Runesmiths with Spellbreakers
2-3 Fighting Dwarf Blocks
1-2 Tarpit Dwarf Blocks
3-4 Warmachines
2-3 Gyrocopters
0-2 "Specialist" Units (Master Engineers, Slayers and the like).

...Rather than the set up:

7 warmachines, period.

@ewar

No, no one really minds me playing with 7 warmachines. People in my region complaining about such a phenomenon would be being hypocritical. I mean, there's monstrous cav./chariot/monster only WoC, heavy cav./warmachines only Empire, DE MSU and so on all here. Dwarf 7 war machine is really a tiny gnat in comparison.

I agree with the "no player imput" sentiment. There really isn't anything the player does outside of roll dice and pray to Grungni and Valaya. With Dawn Attack, it really depends whether my rolls put me in a favourable position. Meeting Engagement typically spells disaster for many static/slow/warmachine reliant lists, this one not being an exception.

The lists that I lose to typically are those which hit fast, and hit hard. Said WoC chariot/monster lists screws me over more often then not. Even 1 or 2 nurgle chariots can really mess up my backfield really quickly. DE MSU tends to be a bugger as well, all those M5+ flanking units.

russellmoo
20-04-2014, 15:14
Your hybrid list is right in line with the lists that I have been constructing mainly because as a dwarf player I love warmachines but simply standing there blowing the enemy to peices is tempting but not as much fun as participating in the movement and close combat parts of the game.

Of course I also have been trying to get my more fluffy, gunpowder throng to work, however, it seems that Hammerers are just too good to not have in a list.

Fupduck
21-04-2014, 08:42
Your hybrid list is right in line with the lists that I have been constructing mainly because as a dwarf player I love warmachines but simply standing there blowing the enemy to peices is tempting but not as much fun as participating in the movement and close combat parts of the game.


And why do we play this game? To have a bit of fun out of it, of course.

++ You do get to participate in the movement part of the game with my mass warmachines list. You do, after all, have 4 gyrocopters. ++



Of course I also have been trying to get my more fluffy, gunpowder throng to work, however, it seems that Hammerers are just too good to not have in a list.


Hammerers are, indeed, just too good. Right up there in the top 5 of best infantry units, I should think.

P.S. Holy cow, this thread is still going?