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View Full Version : [Wishlist] What White Dwarf unit would you love to see added to your army?



PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
19-03-2014, 23:43
So for those who haven't been paying attention, the latest White Dwarf Weekly has rules for the Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch, a 90-point hero unit that you can take with any DoC army. This has me really hopeful that this is something we can come to expect from GW coming out for other armies.

So in the spirit of optimism, what unit would you love to see come out in a White Dwarf for your army? For the purposes of this thread let's say it can be anything that GW might realistically produce (both from a rules/fluff perspective and from a manufacturing/production/stocking perspective).



For my point I'd love to see some heavy chariots for my Tomb Kings, with Tomb Guard crew. There's already a rumour that our chariot kit is getting redone, and since both charioteers and tomb guard wear light armour it would only take some variant heads and weapon options, and maybe some bits, to make this work. My idea for stats is something like this:



Royal Chariots (Special Choice)

Unit........M..WS..BS..S..T..W..I..A..LD.........T roop Type
Chariot....-....-....-....5..5...3..-..-..-...........Chariot (Armour Save 5+)
Crew......4....4....3....4..4...-..3..2..8
Horses....8....2....0....3..-...-..2..1..-

90 points per model

Unit Size 3+

Crew: 2 Royal Charioteers
Drawn By: 2 skeleton steeds

Equipment (Chariot): Scythes

Equipment (Crew): Spears, hand weapon

Special Rules: Fear, Nehekharan Undead, Chariot Legions, 'And the Tomb Kings Rode to War...', Killing Blow (crew only)

Options: command (10 points), Great Weapons/Halberds?, bows?, Standard up to 50 points


Can be taken as a mount by Tomb Kings, Tomb Princes, and Tomb Heralds.


Costed at 20 points less than a WoC core chariot but with less WS, less strength, and one less wound. Killing Blow on the chariot impact hits as well would be pretty awesome, but I was trying to err on the side of reasonableness :P

Alltaken
20-03-2014, 04:49
Doom seekers back as sort of fanatics, but not hidden and more reliable in the stearing.

Nakai the wanderer (character krox) giving scouts to a krox unit.
Thunder lizard, size of Thundertusk at least with some good rules and effects

From my servoskull

quietus1986
20-03-2014, 07:03
somthing living for the VC like normal humans that are forst to fight with the VC like in tha old book in the back. So some normal empire core But with -1 or even -2 Ld for being fors to fight for the Vc

Leogun_91
20-03-2014, 10:11
Slayer Pirates, preferably with Long Drong Slayer added as a special character as well.

The bearded one
20-03-2014, 11:34
Doom seekers

This.

words for the word god

empirepadds
20-03-2014, 11:39
would like to see a skink fast cav unit ,just to add some variety in core. I know we got terradons but would like skinks riding something like gallimimus .They should be able to have jav and shield or blowpipes

Scammel
20-03-2014, 11:55
Ogre Pitfighers and additional special characters (there are four).

Alltaken
20-03-2014, 12:35
A ogre unit that hurls kamikaze gnoblars (with powder barrell strapped to them, terrorsit style) or trolls with gobbos/for that matter, just like in blood bowl

From my servoskull

Vipoid
20-03-2014, 12:42
VC Werewolves. :D

Otherwise maybe Skeleton Archers - though of the two I'm not sure which is the least likely. :p

Tekore
20-03-2014, 12:46
I was thinking about this and what you could make from existing kits that wouldn't take additional modification. Solo Gorebeasts seem like an obvious winner.

Ero-Senin
20-03-2014, 13:27
A unit of centaurs for wood elves would suit them very well

Princey
20-03-2014, 14:35
Personally, id like to see the wood elves get their beastfriends back (elves leading predatory cats etc) but i seriously doubt this will ever happen

Urgat
20-03-2014, 14:43
Forest goblin gigantic spider monstrous cavalry as special.

Fear Ghoul
20-03-2014, 15:39
Skeleton Archers for Vampire Counts, so that we can at least participate in the Shooting phase without resorting to screaming at the enemy, and at last eliminate the logical discontinuity of Necromancers who leave the longbow-carrying skeletons lying on the battlefield for no particular reason.

Vipoid
20-03-2014, 18:15
Skeleton Archers for Vampire Counts, so that we can at least participate in the Shooting phase without resorting to screaming at the enemy, and at last eliminate the logical discontinuity of Necromancers who leave the longbow-carrying skeletons lying on the battlefield for no particular reason.

I have to say, if I was a Vampire Lord (or Supreme Necromancer), I think I'd be more interested in acquiring some of that 'Black Powder' - it seems very effective.

"What's that? It can be dangerous? Well then it's a good job I have an entire legion of expendable skeletons, isn't it?" ;)

Bergen Beerbelly
20-03-2014, 18:25
The armoured blimp that you see in some of the pictures in the Dwarf Army Book.

@allmyownbattles
20-03-2014, 18:44
Doom seekers back as sort of fanatics, but not hidden and more reliable in the stearing.

This would be my choice too. They shouldn't pop through units like fanatics though, they're too solid. Instead, they just crash into the unit, do lots of impact his, and can be attacked back.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

The bearded one
20-03-2014, 23:19
Skeleton Archers for Vampire Counts, so that we can at least participate in the Shooting phase without resorting to screaming at the enemy, and at last eliminate the logical discontinuity of Necromancers who leave the longbow-carrying skeletons lying on the battlefield for no particular reason.

How about skeleton crossbowmen? It'd differentiate them from tomb kings as well.

Leogun_91
20-03-2014, 23:36
Skeleton Archers for Vampire Counts, so that we can at least participate in the Shooting phase without resorting to screaming at the enemy, and at last eliminate the logical discontinuity of Necromancers who leave the longbow-carrying skeletons lying on the battlefield for no particular reason.I believe its because the necromancers can't (or need to use very much power in order to) raise undead with the knowledge to use weaponry more advanced than a simple melee weapon. The Tombking skeletons retain some of their memories and are blessed by their pantheon, therefore they can use their longbows and catapults still. A necromancer would surely animate longbowmen but he would probably try to give them other weapons lest they walk up to their foe to beat him to death with a bow.

Thats at least how I have seen the lack of archers in VC and it fits well.

Kingly
21-03-2014, 00:20
Skein crossbow men were in the old old book weren't they.

I'd love to see Empire get a unit of Swordsmen in special/Rare, armed with sword and shield but also Full Plate, no other rules needed, that's all I'd ask for and I'd lap them up!
Empire of High Elves, which ever.

Kakapo42
21-03-2014, 00:47
A unit of centaurs for wood elves would suit them very well

I've always thought centaurs were a bit too beastmen-esque for Wood Elves, but that may just be me.

What I'd like to see is a return of the Regiments of Renown, as well as some bounty hunters or whatnot. And available for Every Army. Except Bretonnians though - they don't need that scum!

Ramius4
21-03-2014, 02:45
Skeleton Archers for Vampire Counts, so that we can at least participate in the Shooting phase without resorting to screaming at the enemy, and at last eliminate the logical discontinuity of Necromancers who leave the longbow-carrying skeletons lying on the battlefield for no particular reason.

Or Halberds, Great weapons, Flails, Additional Hand weapons, etc.

It's just for gameplay bud. Armies and units within them are characterized by what they don't have, as much as by what they do have access to.

You have to go back to the 5th edition Undead army (before TKs and VC were split) before you see Skeletons with anything other than hand weapons or spears. Back then they could get Halberds, Great Weapons, and I think Flails.


I believe its because the necromancers can't (or need to use very much power in order to) raise undead with the knowledge to use weaponry more advanced than a simple melee weapon. The Tombking skeletons retain some of their memories and are blessed by their pantheon, therefore they can use their longbows and catapults still. A necromancer would surely animate longbowmen but he would probably try to give them other weapons lest they walk up to their foe to beat him to death with a bow.

Thats at least how I have seen the lack of archers in VC and it fits well.

Sure, I can go with that. Still doesn't jive with their lack of... Halberds, Great weapons, Flails, Additional Hand weapons, etc. :p

Undead fluff so often telling stories of war vs. the Empire, you'd think they might have included at least one or two of the Empire options right?

But oh well. I don't mind Vampire's Skellies being pretty much as they are. In fact, I wish it were the Tomb King's Skeletons that have a bit more variety. The Vampire army has tons more variety than Tomb Kings already. Give the TK's Skeletons some love to set them apart.

thegoss84
21-03-2014, 03:12
Maybe I'm a little picky, but I'd like a Skink lord that isn't a named character. Maybe go so far as to give him toughness 4.

WLBjork
21-03-2014, 08:48
It's just for gameplay bud. Armies and units within them are characterized by what they don't have, as much as by what they do have access to.

You have to go back to the 5th edition Undead army (before TKs and VC were split) before you see Skeletons with anything other than hand weapons or spears. Back then they could get Halberds, Great Weapons, and I think Flails..

Actually, you only need go.as far back as either Storm of Chaos (and the Von Carstein list), or the article about the Vampire Coast (or was that SoC as well? Forgotten now!)


For me, I'd like to see updated rules from Grombindal himself.

Especially the super-cheesy, really stupidly overpowered version with Gotrek and Bugman as shield bearers :evilgrin:

Ero-Senin
21-03-2014, 10:25
I've always thought centaurs were a bit too beastmen-esque for Wood Elves, but that may just be me.

What I'd like to see is a return of the Regiments of Renown, as well as some bounty hunters or whatnot. And available for Every Army. Except Bretonnians though - they don't need that scum!

I suppose it depends how you see centaurs, yes they could be half elf/man half beast mutants (beastmen) or noble, ancient creatures of myth (wood elves).

Loved regiments of renown but would worry that every army would end up taking exactly the same mercenaries every game. Which is what worries me about 9th edition allies too.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
21-03-2014, 10:40
Or Halberds, Great weapons, Flails, Additional Hand weapons, etc.

It's just for gameplay bud. Armies and units within them are characterized by what they don't have, as much as by what they do have access to.

You have to go back to the 5th edition Undead army (before TKs and VC were split) before you see Skeletons with anything other than hand weapons or spears. Back then they could get Halberds, Great Weapons, and I think Flails.

[...]

But oh well. I don't mind Vampire's Skellies being pretty much as they are. In fact, I wish it were the Tomb King's Skeletons that have a bit more variety. The Vampire army has tons more variety than Tomb Kings already. Give the TK's Skeletons some love to set them apart.

Both TK and VC actually suffer from really...really boring core. I'd honestly rather see VC get more weapon options while TK get more special rules or something. Though GW-wielding skeletons would be *********** awesome. I'd pay 6ppm for them happily.

Fear Ghoul
21-03-2014, 11:59
I have to say, if I was a Vampire Lord (or Supreme Necromancer), I think I'd be more interested in acquiring some of that 'Black Powder' - it seems very effective.

"What's that? It can be dangerous? Well then it's a good job I have an entire legion of expendable skeletons, isn't it?" ;)


How about skeleton crossbowmen? It'd differentiate them from tomb kings as well.

Both of these are possible, although lonbowmen are the more plausible addition because Necromancers and Vampire Counts likely don't possess the technology base or money to supply (if necessary) Skeletons with black powder, handguns, or crossbows.


I believe its because the necromancers can't (or need to use very much power in order to) raise undead with the knowledge to use weaponry more advanced than a simple melee weapon. The Tombking skeletons retain some of their memories and are blessed by their pantheon, therefore they can use their longbows and catapults still. A necromancer would surely animate longbowmen but he would probably try to give them other weapons lest they walk up to their foe to beat him to death with a bow.

Thats at least how I have seen the lack of archers in VC and it fits well.

The only reason why Vampire Counts don't have missile weapons and chariots is that the Tomb Kings got them in the divorce.

Melee weapons aren't exactly trivial to use if you actually want to hit something.


It's just for gameplay bud. Armies and units within them are characterized by what they don't have, as much as by what they do have access to.

No, its for profit so that GW forces Undead players to buy brand new units to replace the ones they can't use anymore.

And when units lack basic options they should have it breaks immersion, and therefore makes the game less fun.

Skeletons (and Marauders) not having access to longbows makes as much sense as Bretonnian cavalry not having access to lances.


You have to go back to the 5th edition Undead army (before TKs and VC were split) before you see Skeletons with anything other than hand weapons or spears. Back then they could get Halberds, Great Weapons, and I think Flails.

I'll have to double check, but I'm pretty sure they couldn't get any of the above.


But oh well. I don't mind Vampire's Skellies being pretty much as they are. In fact, I wish it were the Tomb King's Skeletons that have a bit more variety. The Vampire army has tons more variety than Tomb Kings already. Give the TK's Skeletons some love to set them apart.

Tomb King Skeletons have far less reason for varied weapon options than Vampire Counts. Since the Tomb Kings are basically an Undead Ancient Egypt, then their soldiers should be equipped principally with shortbows, spears, or short swords.

Freeman
21-03-2014, 12:00
Zombie pirates had some good stuff, from bloated corpses of drowned sailors to zombies with guns, carronades and a named cannon. No end of fun with those guys

Vipoid
21-03-2014, 12:11
Both of these are possible, although lonbowmen are the more plausible addition because Necromancers and Vampire Counts likely don't possess the technology base or money to supply (if necessary) Skeletons with black powder, handguns, or crossbows.

I was more thinking of them stealing cannons and powder from the Empire in their ongoing war (or scavenging them from battlefields).


Regardless, I'll happily give up all claim to black powder - if, in return, my vampires agree to research halberds. ;)

Leogun_91
21-03-2014, 12:45
I suppose it depends how you see centaurs, yes they could be half elf/man half beast mutants (beastmen) or noble, ancient creatures of myth (wood elves).Even with noble ancient creatures of myth (fitting the Centaur myths of Greek very badly) they would be little more than a 'good' version of Centigors and just making a good or evil version of a unit already existing is quite lazy and lessens the uniqueness of each army, and that uniqueness is something GW tries hard to give them.

Both of these are possible, although lonbowmen are the more plausible addition because Necromancers and Vampire Counts likely don't possess the technology base or money to supply (if necessary) Skeletons with black powder, handguns, or crossbows. There is no reason for nobles of the Empire (to which Sylvania as a part of Stirland belongs) would be unable to acquire the handguns that are commonly seen in imperial armies, if availability would be the only reason then surely Vampire Lords should be allowed to use everything from Reapeater Handguns to Hippogryphs as they often are wealthy nobles. Handguns fit as well as any other missile weapon fluff wise but falls out due to not fitting as well thematically. I second the call for crossbows as the missile weapon if one was to be chosen as I believe this will look the best on the current style of VC skeletons and also aid in differing the armies.


And when units lack basic options they should have it breaks immersion, and therefore makes the game less fun.

Skeletons (and Marauders) not having access to longbows makes as much sense as Bretonnian cavalry not having access to lances.I gave a fluff reason for skeletons being unable to take missile weapons and for Marauders the fact comes that the eye of the gods is fixed upon those that defeat glorious foes up-close, a marauder would have no interest in standing back and cowardly (in his and his comrades opinion) lob arrows at his foe. This might be bad news for the armies of Marauders but these men doesn't really care to much about their fellow warriors, if it offers them a chance at glory then it's worth sacrificing their "friends" for it, hopefully they'll be blessed as chaos warriors once they return.

Alltaken
21-03-2014, 12:48
For me, I'd like to see updated rules from Grombindal himself.

Especially the super-cheesy, really stupidly overpowered version with Gotrek and Bugman as shield bearers :evilgrin:

Yeah! Im just starting to read shaman slayer (snif snif no more G&F now ti read) so I would love that, or just generally gotrek and felix back in action! Add some snorri nosebiter love and its perfect!


Oh, sprues for 2hw on sauri *. * one can only dream


From my servoskull

Alltaken
21-03-2014, 12:51
I suppose it depends how you see centaurs, yes they could be half elf/man half beast mutants (beastmen) or noble, ancient creatures of myth (wood elves).

Loved regiments of renown but would worry that every army would end up taking exactly the same mercenaries every game. Which is what worries me about 9th edition allies too.

Centaurs are really pretty much explicitly chaos, half creatures are as mutants as you get, even other shape changers are cobsidered chaos in lore. Maybe ethereal units? Say sprites or sisters of ariel :p

From my servoskull

Ero-Senin
21-03-2014, 13:08
For some reason I never imagine centaurs to be evil. They are supposed to be wise and in tune with nature according to all the original myths. Thought it would be better than wild riders on stags.

Fear Ghoul
21-03-2014, 13:13
I was more thinking of them stealing cannons and powder from the Empire in their ongoing war (or scavenging them from battlefields).


Regardless, I'll happily give up all claim to black powder - if, in return, my vampires agree to research halberds. ;)

Cannon crews historically tried to wreck their cannons if they thought they would fall into enemy hands.


There is no reason for nobles of the Empire (to which Sylvania as a part of Stirland belongs) would be unable to acquire the handguns that are commonly seen in imperial armies, if availability would be the only reason then surely Vampire Lords should be allowed to use everything from Reapeater Handguns to Hippogryphs as they often are wealthy nobles. Handguns fit as well as any other missile weapon fluff wise but falls out due to not fitting as well thematically. I second the call for crossbows as the missile weapon if one was to be chosen as I believe this will look the best on the current style of VC skeletons and also aid in differing the armies.

The Undead (including the Vampire Counts of Sylvania) have almost no money with which to purchase war materiel. Therefore what little they supply the core of their armies with must be either incredibly cheap or easy to scavenge due to its commonality. Handguns, crossbows, and great weapons don't meet any of these criteria, and therefore aren't as obviously immediate additions to the Vampire Counts army list core section as mere longbowmen.


I gave a fluff reason for skeletons being unable to take missile weapons and for Marauders the fact comes that the eye of the gods is fixed upon those that defeat glorious foes up-close, a marauder would have no interest in standing back and cowardly (in his and his comrades opinion) lob arrows at his foe. This might be bad news for the armies of Marauders but these men doesn't really care to much about their fellow warriors, if it offers them a chance at glory then it's worth sacrificing their "friends" for it, hopefully they'll be blessed as chaos warriors once they return.

Yes, but what do the Maruaders use to hunt animals? They certainly don't use flails or great weapons.

SpanielBear
21-03-2014, 14:32
For some reason I never imagine centaurs to be evil. They are supposed to be wise and in tune with nature according to all the original myths. Thought it would be better than wild riders on stags.

Well, one of them was. The rest were more a band of drunken rapists. Hence the half man half beast imagery even then; they represented the wild, unrepressed desires and barbarism- the id if you will. Similar links can be seen with the Satyrs, who get associated with the Bacchanalia and Meneads. Definitely a Beastmen thing.

For Wood Elves, I'd look at Celtic imagery, or Faery. I'd love for there to be more done with spites and spirits. I'd quite like to see Ariel return as a special character.

Spider-pope
21-03-2014, 14:37
A Dwarf character of some sort that makes Slayers core. Seriously GW, do that and i will throw money at you.

The bearded one
22-03-2014, 00:04
Yes, but what do the Maruaders use to hunt animals? They certainly don't use flails or great weapons.

Horsemen with javelins?

Leogun_91
22-03-2014, 00:24
The Undead (including the Vampire Counts of Sylvania) have almost no money with which to purchase war materiel. Therefore what little they supply the core of their armies with must be either incredibly cheap or easy to scavenge due to its commonality. Handguns, crossbows, and great weapons don't meet any of these criteria, and therefore aren't as obviously immediate additions to the Vampire Counts army list core section as mere longbowmen.I have seen no background to support this, the Sisterhood of Lahmia and the von Carstein bloodline recruit mainly nobles, many who fall for such promises of power. Nobles tend to be fairly wealthy and there would be no reasons for these orders to recruit mainly from poorer nobility, the Lahmians also own a dwarf hold and with it many items of dwarf craftsmanship, things that go for high prices in foreign lands (and most likely includes a fair share of handguns and crossbows).
The Empires armies also doesn't make use of military longbows (their archers and huntsmen carry bows but not longbows) which is logical given that their archers role is in scouting and hunting where a hunting bow would probably be a better choice than a military longbow. In Bretonnia where the main ranged weapon is bows, military longbows are used to a large degree and the same goes for woodelves and highelves.




Yes, but what do the Maruaders use to hunt animals? They certainly don't use flails or great weapons.No of course not but the fact that an empire swordsman uses a hammer when fixing his roof doesn't change his equipment either. In war the Marauders want to get close and fight so that they can win the glory of the gods. They will leave their bows at home as fighting without a chance for glory feels pretty pointless for most of them (and the rest would never hear the end of it if they brought their bows).
The bearded ones suggestion of horsemen with javelins for this duty is also a good point.

Fear Ghoul
22-03-2014, 03:45
Horsemen with javelins?

They're going to have a harder time sneaking up on their prey with the horses making a lot of noise. I'm not saying it can't be done, but rather that it is simply impractical in many situations.


I have seen no background to support this, the Sisterhood of Lahmia and the von Carstein bloodline recruit mainly nobles, many who fall for such promises of power. Nobles tend to be fairly wealthy and there would be no reasons for these orders to recruit mainly from poorer nobility, the Lahmians also own a dwarf hold and with it many items of dwarf craftsmanship, things that go for high prices in foreign lands (and most likely includes a fair share of handguns and crossbows).
The Empires armies also doesn't make use of military longbows (their archers and huntsmen carry bows but not longbows) which is logical given that their archers role is in scouting and hunting where a hunting bow would probably be a better choice than a military longbow. In Bretonnia where the main ranged weapon is bows, military longbows are used to a large degree and the same goes for woodelves and highelves.

Nobles tend to be wealthy compared to the common peasant, but there is a huge wealth scale across a wide range of noble titles from petty Barons all the way to Kings, and most of them could not afford to equip an entire army.

Sylvania is an incredibly poor land with minimal trade and agriculture, so it is incredibly unlikely the von Carsteins possessed much wealth compared to their peers. Similarly the Lahmians probably spend most of their money on dowries for marriage contracts, or on huge elaborate parties for the provincial elites, and they can only sell their Dwarven trinkets (assuming the Dwarves didn't take them or seal them away) once to aid in these goals. Furthermore the remaining 3 Vampire bloodlines are noted for not caring much at all for money, and almost all Necromancers will not be considered wealthy.


No of course not but the fact that an empire swordsman uses a hammer when fixing his roof doesn't change his equipment either. In war the Marauders want to get close and fight so that they can win the glory of the gods. They will leave their bows at home as fighting without a chance for glory feels pretty pointless for most of them (and the rest would never hear the end of it if they brought their bows).
The bearded ones suggestion of horsemen with javelins for this duty is also a good point.

You're comparing professional paid soldiers of a Renaissance state to uncivilized barbarians on the frontiers, and therein lies the key difference in equipment. The former have the ability to be equipped with the best equipment, while the latter can only utilize what the necessitates of their harsh lifestyle can provide. Even the Vikings used missile weapons in warfare, so why shouldn't the Chaos Marauders upon whom they are based?

Leogun_91
22-03-2014, 08:04
They're going to have a harder time sneaking up on their prey with the horses making a lot of noise. I'm not saying it can't be done, but rather that it is simply impractical in many situations.Hunting from horseback has not been an uncommon practice and the tendency to do so from foot has more to do with the price of horses. Mounted hunting amongst those that can afford mounts is quite common. Note also that the Marauders do make use of large war hounds in hunting and war.



Nobles tend to be wealthy compared to the common peasant, but there is a huge wealth scale across a wide range of noble titles from petty Barons all the way to Kings, and most of them could not afford to equip an entire army.

Sylvania is an incredibly poor land with minimal trade and agriculture, so it is incredibly unlikely the von Carsteins possessed much wealth compared to their peers. Similarly the Lahmians probably spend most of their money on dowries for marriage contracts, or on huge elaborate parties for the provincial elites, and they can only sell their Dwarven trinkets (assuming the Dwarves didn't take them or seal them away) once to aid in these goals. Furthermore the remaining 3 Vampire bloodlines are noted for not caring much at all for money, and almost all Necromancers will not be considered wealthy.The von Carstein and Lahmia bloodlines have spread throughout the empire and have nobles in all provinces, the wealth of the province of Sylvania is not that important. When a vampire is gathering an army he (or she) will also save great amounts of wealth on not having to buy provisions.
But I suppose wealth shouldn't the main reason but rather what equipment the troops they have slain would have in which case the main missile weapon should be crossbows or handguns if fighting the Empire but Longbows if fighting Bretonnia.




You're comparing professional paid soldiers of a Renaissance state to uncivilized barbarians on the frontiers, and therein lies the key difference in equipment. The former have the ability to be equipped with the best equipment, while the latter can only utilize what the necessitates of their harsh lifestyle can provide. Even the Vikings used missile weapons in warfare, so why shouldn't the Chaos Marauders upon whom they are based?
"Chaos Marauders are natural fighters, born into hardship and brought up in a world where surviving each day is no small victory. Only the strong and capable prosper, for the weak are weeded out and killed. They have no time for plough or sickle, for their tools are the axe, the sword and the shield. What their own lands cannot provide, they simply take from the lands of lesser men."
In that environment not owning a melee weapon is probably not a choice that allows you survival. I have no doubt at all that each marauder could bring a melee weapon to war and as previously said, if they could do it they would choose to do so before considering using a bow. I maintain that it makes no sense for a Marauder to choose to fight with a bow given the reasons for his attacks.
In addition I must remind you that the Norscans that have Viking influence are not in a majority of the Marauders, the Kurgan are the majority invaders according to the rulebook and have been said to be so for a long time.

Lord Dan
22-03-2014, 08:19
Skaven with bazookas. They dont even have to be good.

SpanielBear
22-03-2014, 10:35
Skaven with bazookas. They dont even have to be good.

Rat Propelled Grenades.

...

I'll get my coat.

Kravenon
22-03-2014, 10:57
New bretonnian hero:

Troubador, normal paladin stats but 2 attacks.

Goes in the middle of lance as a damsel. At the beginning of turn give one of these: Devastating charge, stubborn or inmune to psico.

Kakapo42
22-03-2014, 11:20
The Bretonnian special characters from the last army book. ALL of them.

Wouldn't mind seeing some rules for Sarloc and Naeith either come to think of it.

Alltaken
22-03-2014, 13:45
On the lamians, dwarfs tend to seal their riches so no one can have them

From my servoskull

Athelassan
23-03-2014, 00:42
For some reason I never imagine centaurs to be evil. They are supposed to be wise and in tune with nature according to all the original myths. Thought it would be better than wild riders on stags.
I think this is precisely the problem that GW have in trying to decide whether to (re)introduce centaurs to the tabletop. If you go back to 3rd edition, the centaurs were indeed more traditional good guys who wouldn't look out of place alongside the Wood Elves, but they haven't existed in that form in the background now for over twenty years. In 4th edition, centaurs were in the bestiary as Chaos creatures. They had all the usual Centaur traits (although this being GW there wasn't so much mention of lustiness) and they also acted as weaponsmiths for forces of Chaos - which explains where beastmen got their weapons from, rather than having to scavenge them or whatever it says now. But there were a lot of people who wanted centaurs to be good guys (mostly, to be fair, newcomers, I think, rather than veterans who wanted a return to 3rd ed), and when the beastmen finally got their own release GW fudged it, and introduced the centigors.

Then again, the zoats made a comeback, so who's to say old-fashioned centaurs won't. And they can't be worse than stag riders.

Lorm
23-03-2014, 01:51
I think this is precisely the problem that GW have in trying to decide whether to (re)introduce centaurs to the tabletop. If you go back to 3rd edition, the centaurs were indeed more traditional good guys who wouldn't look out of place alongside the Wood Elves, but they haven't existed in that form in the background now for over twenty years. In 4th edition, centaurs were in the bestiary as Chaos creatures. They had all the usual Centaur traits (although this being GW there wasn't so much mention of lustiness) and they also acted as weaponsmiths for forces of Chaos - which explains where beastmen got their weapons from, rather than having to scavenge them or whatever it says now. But there were a lot of people who wanted centaurs to be good guys (mostly, to be fair, newcomers, I think, rather than veterans who wanted a return to 3rd ed), and when the beastmen finally got their own release GW fudged it, and introduced the centigors.

Then again, the zoats made a comeback, so who's to say old-fashioned centaurs won't. And they can't be worse than stag riders.
Couldn't they make BOTH a good and evil version? They could also name them differently... (i mean, there are actually three entire armies made of different kinds of elves...)
Anyway, that's a lot of stuff i'd like to see added for warhammer (for fluff reasons), but i'd like more to have that stuff in armybooks rather than on white dwarf.
Some stuff: Empire's halfings, different religions priests, some new engineers' contraptions and for the bad guys maybe traitor forces (traitor men and cultists, not marauders) and fimirs.

Hragnar Goreskull
23-03-2014, 02:36
Exalted Bloodletters! Either the infantry version with improved stats and armor as a special/rare choice -or- as monstrous infantry, bigger versions of BL but more spikey and khorney lol

quietus1986
23-03-2014, 12:27
nagash with rules to combine vampire counts and tomb kings :D ( Id start a tomb king army the day they realese that )

Warboss_R'ok
23-03-2014, 19:33
Forest goblin gigantic spider monstrous cavalry as special.

We can already get them, as heroes, but they cost ~38 skavenslaves.

How much do you think they should cost if they are just an ordinary unit?

Fear Ghoul
23-03-2014, 21:00
Hunting from horseback has not been an uncommon practice and the tendency to do so from foot has more to do with the price of horses. Mounted hunting amongst those that can afford mounts is quite common. Note also that the Marauders do make use of large war hounds in hunting and war.

Interesting question. How do the Marauders afford and feed their horses in a barren twisted land with little food or economic activity?


The von Carstein and Lahmia bloodlines have spread throughout the empire and have nobles in all provinces, the wealth of the province of Sylvania is not that important. When a vampire is gathering an army he (or she) will also save great amounts of wealth on not having to buy provisions.
But I suppose wealth shouldn't the main reason but rather what equipment the troops they have slain would have in which case the main missile weapon should be crossbows or handguns if fighting the Empire but Longbows if fighting Bretonnia.

I think you are overestimating the level of Vampirism present in the Empire and Bretonnia. Vampires are supposed to be rare, even amongst the nobility, so there really can't be that many of them. Mannfred was stated to be the last of the Vampire Counts of Sylvania, and furthermore the in-universe map of Vampire activity in the 6th edition book suggests there are only a handful of Carstein and Lahmian Vampire concentrations throughout the Old World, the former almost entirely in Sylvania. The fact that Vampires will not have to feed their troops will make funding an army cheaper, but you're still underestimating how much money is required.


"Chaos Marauders are natural fighters, born into hardship and brought up in a world where surviving each day is no small victory. Only the strong and capable prosper, for the weak are weeded out and killed. They have no time for plough or sickle, for their tools are the axe, the sword and the shield. What their own lands cannot provide, they simply take from the lands of lesser men."
In that environment not owning a melee weapon is probably not a choice that allows you survival. I have no doubt at all that each marauder could bring a melee weapon to war and as previously said, if they could do it they would choose to do so before considering using a bow. I maintain that it makes no sense for a Marauder to choose to fight with a bow given the reasons for his attacks.
In addition I must remind you that the Norscans that have Viking influence are not in a majority of the Marauders, the Kurgan are the majority invaders according to the rulebook and have been said to be so for a long time.

The Mongols, Huns, Vikings, etc all used missile weaponry, either on foot or horseback, because they already had these weapons from hunting (the main means of finding meat in wild regions) and they were cheaper to make and wield for poorer troops. The background text you cite is simply a poor retroactive justification by GW for their already existing policy of sacrificing logical continuity in the name of faction shoehorning (or differentiation as it is otherwise known).

Leogun_91
23-03-2014, 22:04
Interesting question. How do the Marauders afford and feed their horses in a barren twisted land with little food or economic activity?Aport from some notions of their horses being tough no explanation for this is given, the most logical thing to assume would be that the barren fields aren't stone desert barren but rather mostly barren mixed with patches of vegetation.




I think you are overestimating the level of Vampirism present in the Empire and Bretonnia. Vampires are supposed to be rare, even amongst the nobility, so there really can't be that many of them. Mannfred was stated to be the last of the Vampire Counts of Sylvania, and furthermore the in-universe map of Vampire activity in the 6th edition book suggests there are only a handful of Carstein and Lahmian Vampire concentrations throughout the Old World, the former almost entirely in Sylvania. The fact that Vampires will not have to feed their troops will make funding an army cheaper, but you're still underestimating how much money is required.The number of vampires is irrelevant as long as those that exist are wealthy and there is little to suggest that they are poor. A poor noble of the Empire is still required to outfit regiments for war (some of which should be halberdiers according to the Imperial Leadership so the lack of those is a bigger break from fluff than bows) and so the cost isn't really optional. As crossbows and handguns are the main ranged regiments of the Empire those weapons would be the most logical for vampires in the Empire.
And as said before the ability to get them from fallen foes would take precedence for which choice is most logical if we (which I don't) accept that vampire necromancy allows normal skeletons and zombies to make use of ranged weapons.




The Mongols, Huns, Vikings, etc all used missile weaponry, either on foot or horseback, because they already had these weapons from hunting (the main means of finding meat in wild regions) and they were cheaper to make and wield for poorer troops. The background text you cite is simply a poor retroactive justification by GW for their already existing policy of sacrificing logical continuity in the name of faction shoehorning (or differentiation as it is otherwise known).As far as I know chaos have always seen it as giving glory to fight in melee and coveted the blessings of the gods. There was a time when Norsca was a separate group and not just part of the Hordes of Chaos and at that time they followed other rules but the chaos worshipping hordes which are represented by the book have always wanted glory up close.

quietus1986
23-03-2014, 22:22
but the last vampire book with split blood lines clearly sade that Lahmian has a strong bressens in every big empire city and even has compleet towns under controle. also lahmians feed on willing victums and do not kill them.
Null even has vampire rulers for the high class en the slums. Von Carstien are also the pirate's and one of the biggest groups Malfriet isn't even dead in the new fluff. Even Valt is back ( he is a varhulf know but oke ).
The lahmians is also the only group that we are 100% sure that the first vampire still live's nefrata has never been slain in any of the fluff. she juist rule's hidden away. And even arabia has vampire's.

Fear Ghoul
24-03-2014, 00:22
Aport from some notions of their horses being tough no explanation for this is given, the most logical thing to assume would be that the barren fields aren't stone desert barren but rather mostly barren mixed with patches of vegetation.

Occasional patches of vegetation aren't really enough to feed horses. All you can really breed in such places are goats, and even they have a bad habit of destroying their habitats.


The number of vampires is irrelevant as long as those that exist are wealthy and there is little to suggest that they are poor. A poor noble of the Empire is still required to outfit regiments for war (some of which should be halberdiers according to the Imperial Leadership so the lack of those is a bigger break from fluff than bows) and so the cost isn't really optional. As crossbows and handguns are the main ranged regiments of the Empire those weapons would be the most logical for vampires in the Empire.

Well weren't you the one pointing to the supposed breadth of Vampires across the Old World a few posts ago? That certainly to me seems like an appeal to numbers. In any case, there is little proof that there are any especially wealthy Vampires, so the point is moot.

In any case the armies of the Empire are paid for by the general taxation of its provinces and city-states, and not by individuals as in Feudal times. No single Elector Count could afford to pay for all the training, equipment, pay, and supply of the armies of his/her state, so I highly doubt any lesser Vampire noble could do better.

Halberdiers may be common in the armies of the Empire, but they are less likely to be found in the armies of the Undead for two reasons. Firstly, since the halberd will have only been around for a few centuries the chances of an Undead soldier carrying a halberd are minute, unlike the bow which will have been fielded for millennia. Secondly, if the halberd breaks, does the Undead general have the ability to replace it? The answer is probably no, because they are relatively expensive (for weapons of the time) and therefore hard to purchase, they are difficult to make for an army without a solid technology base like the Undead factions, and finally they are uncommon among all the dead soldiers found in the Old World going back thousands of years. The same basically holds for any black powder weapons which would be even rarer than halberd and suffer from ammunition scarcity. Crossbows are somewhere in the middle between the two extremes, because they are harder and more expensive to make than longbows but also easier for soldiers to use.

An exception could be made for the Master of Shadows, who is shadow master of Marienburg (the richest city in the Old World) in all but name, and as such would be incredibly wealthy.


And as said before the ability to get them from fallen foes would take precedence for which choice is most logical if we (which I don't) accept that vampire necromancy allows normal skeletons and zombies to make use of ranged weapons.

There is already precedence for allowing Vampire Counts skeletons to take missile weapons, in the 4th edition Undead book, 6th edition Vampire Counts book, and every Tomb Kings book. And I don't believe anyone mentioned anything about Zombies.


As far as I know chaos have always seen it as giving glory to fight in melee and coveted the blessings of the gods. There was a time when Norsca was a separate group and not just part of the Hordes of Chaos and at that time they followed other rules but the chaos worshipping hordes which are represented by the book have always wanted glory up close.

So exactly like the Vikings then? And yet they somehow still fielded missile weaponry.


but the last vampire book with split blood lines clearly sade that Lahmian has a strong bressens in every big empire city and even has compleet towns under controle. also lahmians feed on willing victums and do not kill them.

The 6th edition Vampire Counts does not say the Lahmians have a strong presence in every large Imperial city, and the only towns they control are "in the most remote corners of the Old World". The book also does not say anywhere that Lahmians don't kill their victims, and the only short story of them in the book quite clearly demonstrates an instance of a Lahmian killing many men.


Null even has vampire rulers for the high class en the slums.

Do you have a source for this?


Malfriet isn't even dead in the new fluff. Even Valt is back ( he is a varhulf know but oke ).

Mannfed has never been dead, it's just that some people never actually read their army books. And who is Valt?


The lahmians is also the only group that we are 100% sure that the first vampire still live's nefrata has never been slain in any of the fluff. she juist rule's hidden away. And even arabia has vampire's.

We're also 100% sure that Abhorash still lives(?).

Greyshadow
24-03-2014, 03:03
Wow, there are some brilliant ideas here. Maurauder Archers/Hunters would be cool. Love the Ogre Pit fighter idea too.

Sexiest_hero
24-03-2014, 07:32
Nagash! WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD!

Echunia
24-03-2014, 11:27
Occasional patches of vegetation aren't really enough to feed horses. All you can really breed in such places are goats, and even they have a bad habit of destroying their habitats.


Well the nomad step warriors of the real world (Huns, mongols and so on) as you've already mentioned managed to raise big herds of horses on the step even while eking out a tenuous living for themselves. I think we have to assume that the norscan / kurgan country is step (grassland) rather than barren rocky waste. Yes, GW might have said otherwise in some armybook or other but if you are going to nitpick then the whole setting will come crashing down.



Paraphrasing: Is there a source to prove that Vampires are wealthy?


There might not be a explicit source that says that all vampires are wealthy but suggestions are made. Through out the black library books vampires are mostly encountered in the higher social circles. In the Gotrek and Felix novels for example they encounter Lahmians that seduce their way into wealth extremely quickly after coming to a new city. But from what I gather the officially Grave guard and so on are not wearing bought armour but rather the ceremonial stuff they were buried with.



There is already precedence for allowing Vampire Counts skeletons to take missile weapons, in the 4th edition Undead book, 6th edition Vampire Counts book, and every Tomb Kings book. And I don't believe anyone mentioned anything about Zombies.


It takes quite a lot of skill to fire a bow, you can't put it into the hands of just anyone. Well the difference between a TK skeleton and a VC skeleton is vast. The TK skeleton is still a soldier that retains his memory of training and fighting, thus having the skill to fire a missile weapon. Secondly all the TK arrows are magically enhanced to increase accuracy, if not for that a skeleton might not be able to hit anything. Personally I think it would take to much attention and will for a VC general to make his skeletons fire their bows accurately, so in the end its not worth it. Where as a TK liche merely has to hold the soldiers spirits linked to their bones and they will do the rest of the work.

Fear Ghoul
24-03-2014, 12:04
Well the nomad step warriors of the real world (Huns, mongols and so on) as you've already mentioned managed to raise big herds of horses on the step even while eking out a tenuous living for themselves. I think we have to assume that the norscan / kurgan country is step (grassland) rather than barren rocky waste. Yes, GW might have said otherwise in some armybook or other but if you are going to nitpick then the whole setting will come crashing down.

Since most of the Marauder tribes come from the frozen North, I find it hard to believe they are grazing on grassland most of the year round, unlike the Mongols, Huns, etc.


There might not be a explicit source that says that all vampires are wealthy but suggestions are made. Through out the black library books vampires are mostly encountered in the higher social circles. In the Gotrek and Felix novels for example they encounter Lahmians that seduce their way into wealth extremely quickly after coming to a new city. But from what I gather the officially Grave guard and so on are not wearing bought armour but rather the ceremonial stuff they were buried with.

I think there needs to be some clarification here. I am not saying that some Vampires don't have wealth, but rather hardly any of them will be wealthy enough to fund an army of any quality. For example, just because you have won the lottery, doesn't mean you can buy enough military hardware to equip a division of troops.


It takes quite a lot of skill to fire a bow, you can't put it into the hands of just anyone. Well the difference between a TK skeleton and a VC skeleton is vast. The TK skeleton is still a soldier that retains his memory of training and fighting, thus having the skill to fire a missile weapon. Secondly all the TK arrows are magically enhanced to increase accuracy, if not for that a skeleton might not be able to hit anything. Personally I think it would take to much attention and will for a VC general to make his skeletons fire their bows accurately, so in the end its not worth it. Where as a TK liche merely has to hold the soldiers spirits linked to their bones and they will do the rest of the work.

It takes quite a lot of skill to wield a sword as well, but everyone seems just fine with Skeletons having them. I'm also not entirely sure that Tomb King Skeletons have the level of memory that some claim.

SteveW
24-03-2014, 13:00
T5 WS5 4 up save black Orcs would be amazing.

Sent from my lumina 925 using ninja's

Echunia
24-03-2014, 13:23
Since most of the Marauder tribes come from the frozen North, I find it hard to believe they are grazing on grassland most of the year round, unlike the Mongols, Huns, etc.


Well from what I gather places like Mongolia and the steps are not grassy all year round. They have a freezing climate during winter as well, yet nomads have lived there for a long time. I think the Kurgans would move their herds to pastures further south during winter, but that is not to say that their beasts existence are easy during the winter months.



I think there needs to be some clarification here. I am not saying that some Vampires don't have wealth, but rather hardly any of them will be wealthy enough to fund an army of any quality. For example, just because you have won the lottery, doesn't mean you can buy enough military hardware to equip a division of troops.


While I agree with you in principle if we look to the fluff for explanations an undead army is relatively low maintenance. You have maybe a score of individuals to feed, vampires, necromancers and cattle. For the most part the army only fights with whatever equipment they were buried with, which is not replaced if broken. As for the elite formations, weights, graveguard, they are resurrected from lavish burial mounds containing any equipment they might need (often magical so less prone to breaking, see 7th ed wight blade fluff). With the lack of missile troops, little cost is expended except for magical energy and human cattle, both of which seem plentiful in the old world.




It takes quite a lot of skill to wield a sword as well, but everyone seems just fine with Skeletons having them. I'm also not entirely sure that Tomb King Skeletons have the level of memory that some claim.

I think the main difference here is that any one can hack away with a sword, if badly, but to simply draw a bow and have the arrow land in the vicinity of a intended target is a lot harder. Skeletons don't fight with any finesse while using their weapons, probably simply hacking up and down, which is reflected in their poor weapon skill.
As for the TK skeletons retaining that level of memory it is very clear in both TK armybooks that they do. I don't have them with me at the moment but it clearly states that a TK skeleton retains his martial memory if not his emotional one.


On topic:

I would love an ushabti hero, like an ushabti version of a tomb herald, able to be the bsb. Let the construct save count as scaly skin to be combined with other armour. ws5 t5, a4 or 5 and be a bit more expensive than ogre heros.

Maybe combine with a construct formation containing some ushabti and a couple of necrolith colossus with some nifty rules, maybe crumbling only to the ushabti hero instead of the heirophant.

Vipoid
24-03-2014, 14:33
I think the main difference here is that any one can hack away with a sword, if badly, but to simply draw a bow and have the arrow land in the vicinity of a intended target is a lot harder.

Not as much as people seem to think. The main reason bows required a lot of training was simply that they required a lot of strength to use (and muscles had to be built up). Considering that skeletons don't tire, and are as strong as elves and humans (who use bows just fine with 'average' strength), it really doesn't seem like much of a problem.

Also, sniping with a bow might take a lot of practice, but it takes far less skill to just fire it into a horde of enemies.

quietus1986
24-03-2014, 14:56
Source for lhamia not killing them is the gotrex and Felix novals (they have a returnee of willing victims something about a kind of high you get when a vampire feeds of you ) And same source for the presence in Null. Felix His lover gets changed in to a vampire. A lhamia vampire. And she is a returning character in the books.
In the lost tale's ( gotrex and felix) you will read about Mannfred getting resurrected. And later in the story Vlad von Carstien is resurrected but something go's wrong and he is a varhulf.

Leogun_91
24-03-2014, 19:03
I think there needs to be some clarification here. I am not saying that some Vampires don't have wealth, but rather hardly any of them will be wealthy enough to fund an army of any quality. For example, just because you have won the lottery, doesn't mean you can buy enough military hardware to equip a division of troops.Then why would they afford to equip large regiments with longbows, these are weapons that will not last with long-dead soldiers (tree rots) and would need to be purchased or looted, the latter is only possible in Bretonnia and two of the elf realms as the Empire, Dwarfs, Greenskins, Beastmen, Dark elves, Ogres, Chaos armies, shaven, lizard men and daemons doesn't make use of military longbows. Longbows are not cheap weapons either, bowyers would work long on a single bow and this would cost quite a lot, equipping a unit with longbows might be cheaper than crossbows but that is only if you can avoid import costs.
If the price of the weapon is of main concern surely slings should be the priority option to make available, even the Moot can afford such equipment to troops so we know that such regiments could be equipped even by poor nobles and ammunition is readily available.
For Lahmians and von Carsteins crossbows and handguns make the most sense as ranged weapons as von Carsteins are traditional and would use the weapons of the Empire and Lahmians have ownership of dwarf-made crossbows and handguns specifically made to stand the test of time.
For Blooddragons I would accept that Longbows are pretty logical, they have a large Bretonnian presence and in that land the Longbow is the primary ranged weapon.
For Strigoi and Necrach vampires the sling would make the most sense, neither of those bloodlines are wealthy or good at interacting with humans.
And that is if you accept that the vampires can make their troops use ranged weapons.




It takes quite a lot of skill to wield a sword as well, but everyone seems just fine with Skeletons having them. I'm also not entirely sure that Tomb King Skeletons have the level of memory that some claim."The Skeleton Warriors of Nehekaran are not mindless automatons slaved to the will of an evil necromancer. They are instead animated by the souls of their former bodies. The incantations of the Liche Priests summon the spirits of long-dead soldiers from the Realm of Souls and bind them into corporeal forms. However, without the extensive mummification lavished upon their lords and betters, the spirits of these warriors do not retain their full memory of their former existence. Upon awakening from their death-sleep, the only thing that every one of these Undead soldiers recall with perfect clarity is their unswerving loyalty to their king and the ways of war that were drilled into them in life." That quote from the current TK book gives a good description of the way Tombking skeletons work.
The skill needed to use a sword is easier to have than the skill to use a bow, to master the weapon or get to a level of skill where you can fence properly is a whole other thing but bring enough men who can hold a weapon and make a thrust or two against the foe and you will kill a few enemies, hell with the right melee weapon (such as the for the skeletons available spears) simply pointing them at the foe is potentially deadly. Their WS of 2 doesn't really represent skilled swordsmen, they share their weaponskill with slaves and drafted peasants, something that seems fairly reasonable for unskilled resurrection.

So exactly like the Vikings then? And yet they somehow still fielded missile weaponry.Viking did not dislike the use of bows or found them unhonorable, there were even gods famed for their use of bows. In addition the Vikings never saw unquestionable proof of their gods existence. If a religion says that you are supposed to fight in melee then you might do so, if a herald of a god taken physical form says that you are supposed to fight in melee you will do so.

Alltaken
25-03-2014, 00:16
Not as much as people seem to think. The main reason bows required a lot of training was simply that they required a lot of strength to use (and muscles had to be built up). Considering that skeletons don't tire, and are as strong as elves and humans (who use bows just fine with 'average' strength), it really doesn't seem like much of a problem.

Also, sniping with a bow might take a lot of practice, but it takes far less skill to just fire it into a horde of enemies.

Actually bows requiere proper technique rather than brute stength, if you dont pull properly it will requiere more strength than it should.

Also, skeletons dont have strength problems since they dont tire. Lots of magical reasons could apply. Raised vc skeletons retain very little of their skills and no personality, only wight lvl corpses have some better stats since their life force was stronger.
Khemri pretty much retain a lot of their former character, skills, personality. Besides being the first undead, many raised by nagash himself and probably stronger or more adept necromancers than vc vamps and necros

From my servoskull

Vipoid
25-03-2014, 00:29
Also, skeletons dont have strength problems since they dont tire.

Isn't that what I said? :confused:

Alltaken
25-03-2014, 02:19
Isn't that what I said? :confused:

You said that bows requiered lots of strength, I however inapropiatly mentioned 2 things, bows are not based on strength use, and if they were it would not be a problem for the undead.

Proper bow drawing doesnt requiere a lot of strength. It requieres correct pulling and arm positioning so you dont hurt your wrist when you let go. Drawing is not hard at all to learn, realasing is however way more dificult, withouth mentioning aiming. If you want to shoot fast (lots of arrows in a short time) you might to work out some what your shoulders and chest.
Bows have a max tollerance (pounds in strength or whichever measurement) at which they should be shot, you can deffinetly surpass it, but your damaging the bow and your shot will be harder to aim

From my servoskull

quietus1986
25-03-2014, 17:07
I realy want the apendix options of living crossbow man bank lol ( Von Carlstien list )

decker_cky
26-03-2014, 15:23
I'd love to see the return of eshin triads. Units of 3 skaven assassins as a rare choice. Give them options for weeping blades and smoke bombs.