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Wilhelm das Blutige
23-03-2014, 08:35
In Storm of Magic, when a unit summoned by the Seven Secret Sigils of Summoning is hit by a spell from the Lore of Light, the unit takes 2d6 Wounds.

Okay. Do they get armour and ward saves? And if they get armour saves, what strength are they saving against?

Until clarified, the way we play this is that summoned units get no save whatsoever against this effect. After all, they are not being killed, just sent back to whence they came (where they would probably rather be anyway).

Mr_Rose
23-03-2014, 10:15
If nothing is denying you a save, why on earth wouldn't you take it?

Artinam
24-03-2014, 10:12
They are not Daemons or undead or something.

Wilhelm das Blutige
24-03-2014, 17:04
Yeah great! Neither of these replies answer the question. Can I have some serious replies please.

badguyshaveallthefun
24-03-2014, 17:54
If it only says "The unit takes 2D6 wounds" then the unit would be entitled to take any saves that it has; I would also argue that additionally because there is no strength, then there are no armor save modifiers as well.

EDIT: The spell will have to tell you specifically what kind of modifiers there are (if any) when it comes to armor and ward saves. If there are no restrictions then they are taken as normal, only if the spell specifically says "no saves of any kind are allowed against these wounds" would you not be allowed saves, and your group would be playing it wrong. (I'm at school and so I don't have my book so I can't tell you for certain right now)

Horus38
24-03-2014, 19:51
Yeah great! Neither of these replies answer the question. Can I have some serious replies please.

Both replies answer your question, but apparently you need to be spoon fed:

* The unit doesn't take "2d6 wounds" from any lore of light spells. All lore of light spells clearly state what the strength of their magic missile/direct damage is (usually strength 4 or 6).
* Undead, demons, etc. take an extra D6 hits from lore of light.
* Anything hit (including the stuff summoned from seven secret sigils) will take its modified armor save as per the strength of the spell and it's ward save as normal. NOTE: one lore of light spell causes you to re-roll successful ward saves, but once again this is clearly stated by the spell.

iamjack42
24-03-2014, 20:58
Actually, the Spell "Seven Secret Sigils of Summoning" contains the following language:


Units bound by this spell are particularly vulnerable to the Lore of Light, whose magics somehow destabilize the arcane bonds. Any unit brought into play by the Seven Secret Sigils of Summoning that is succesfully targeted by a spell cast from the Lore of Light (even those cast by friendly Wizards) suffers 2d6 Wounds, resolved in addition to and before other effects. These Wounds do not necessarily represent physical damage, but rather members of the target unit 'snapping back' to wherever it was they were summoned from.

The OP certainly didn't pose his question clearly, or indicate that his question actually had to do with the language of the spell in question, but I think what he wants to know is whether armor saves are permitted against these wounds. Since the BRB says each wound suffered may be cancelled by an armor save, I think that they would be allowed, since nothing says they may not be taken

Horus38
24-03-2014, 23:06
Actually, the Spell "Seven Secret Sigils of Summoning" contains the following language:
The OP certainly didn't pose his question clearly, or indicate that his question actually had to do with the language of the spell in question, but I think what he wants to know is whether armor saves are permitted against these wounds. Since the BRB says each wound suffered may be cancelled by an armor save, I think that they would be allowed, since nothing says they may not be taken

Ah, thanks for the clarification and I would agree with your points.

Wilhelm das Blutige
25-03-2014, 09:45
Both replies answer your question, but apparently you need to be spoon fed:

* The unit doesn't take "2d6 wounds" from any lore of light spells. All lore of light spells clearly state what the strength of their magic missile/direct damage is (usually strength 4 or 6).
* Undead, demons, etc. take an extra D6 hits from lore of light.
* Anything hit (including the stuff summoned from seven secret sigils) will take its modified armor save as per the strength of the spell and it's ward save as normal. NOTE: one lore of light spell causes you to re-roll successful ward saves, but once again this is clearly stated by the spell.

Sorry, but this is utter drivel.

If you do not have Storm of Magic and therefore do not understand or know about the spell Seven Secret Sigils of Summoning, then that would explain why you are referring only to the rules relating to the basic Lore of Light spells in the BRB. In that case, you could be forgiven for overlooking this, and even missing SoM in the thread title.

Wilhelm das Blutige
25-03-2014, 09:51
If it only says "The unit takes 2D6 wounds" then the unit would be entitled to take any saves that it has; I would also argue that additionally because there is no strength, then there are no armor save modifiers as well.

EDIT: The spell will have to tell you specifically what kind of modifiers there are (if any) when it comes to armor and ward saves. If there are no restrictions then they are taken as normal, only if the spell specifically says "no saves of any kind are allowed against these wounds" would you not be allowed saves, and your group would be playing it wrong. (I'm at school and so I don't have my book so I can't tell you for certain right now)

Thanks for this. This makes the most sense out of all the replies here. I think we'll go with this ruling from now on. I'll see what our gaming club says about it too.

It isn't something that would come up very often though. At the high casting value for SSSoS (25+) compared to what it reaps, there are better spells to use your Power Dice on. Even if it is cast, there needs to be at least one Lore of Light wizard in the game, which doesn't happen that often (unless you're playing against Tomb Kings or Lizardmen).

Horus38
25-03-2014, 12:48
Sorry, but this is utter drivel.

If you do not have Storm of Magic and therefore do not understand or know about the spell Seven Secret Sigils of Summoning, then that would explain why you are referring only to the rules relating to the basic Lore of Light spells in the BRB. In that case, you could be forgiven for overlooking this, and even missing SoM in the thread title.

Yea, thanks for reading post #8 where I thank iamjack42 for that very clarification.