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Emoge
23-03-2014, 15:05
TL;DR: Which codex has the best dreadnoughts?

I'm wanting to start an army and I love dreadnoughts! I know dreadnoughts took a hit in 6th with hull points, so I shelved the idea and kind of stuck with my Tyranids for a while but with the advent of Imperial Knights it seems I can revisit the idea of a dreadnought army! I was considering running 2-4 Imperial Knights either as a main force or allies with a second army of mostly dreadnoughts or similarly themed models.

The two obvious candidates are Grey Knights with both Psyfledreads combined with Dreadknights (I know dreadknights aren't walkers but they look close enough to one and the model looks awesome!) or Blood Angels with both their furioso dreadnoughts and Death Company Dreadnoughts as troops. Plus furioso dreadnoughts could be librarians and take BRB powers right? Not sure...

The problem I see is both books are a little dated, first being 4 years old and the other 5 years old, and for blood angels melee dreadnoughts lost a lot of their fear...

I'm a little out of the loop on newer books so that's why I'm asking here. Is there a better option in newer released books for more viable dreadnoughts? Hopefully ones that can ally with Imperial Knights?

Slowpoke
23-03-2014, 15:10
Have you considered dreadnoughts with Iron Hands chapter tactics? I believe they have It Will Not Die which makes them a whole lot durable.

Borgomos
23-03-2014, 15:13
Codex Space Marines, (Iron Hands Chapter Tactics) give their dreads It Will Not Die rolls, plus you get access to drop pods. You can pod in Dreads alongside Sternguard and other dangerous stuff. You can even add in Forgeworld Dreads for good measure.

Space Marine book is very new and quite well-written to boot.

Emoge
23-03-2014, 15:31
Just to double check... for Codex Space Marines, you just choose which chapter tactics you want? And possibly paint the army that color scheme right? Do you need to pay extra or something? I thought in the old codex you had to pretty much take the respective special character to get the benefits, but looking at the new one you just kind of choose... is that right?

Space Marine Rifleman dreads are much cheaper than Grey Knight Psyfledreads, for the 40 point difference you only lose 1 strength but as mentioned gain It WIll Not Die! Plus this opens up Ironclad Dreadnoughts which AV 13 is much harder to deal with making them immune to S6 and below!

Sotek
23-03-2014, 16:05
Iron Hands - IWND, more tech marine shenanigans and so on.

Navar
23-03-2014, 17:03
Look at the siege assault vanguard list. It has troop dreadnoughts. It also has some cool dreadnaut variants.

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Camman1984
23-03-2014, 20:28
How about blood angels? Blood claws are good to dig you out of tarpits and flying librarian dreads give you some mobility.

Ironbone
23-03-2014, 21:11
Space Marine Rifleman dreads are much cheaper than Grey Knight Psyfledreads, for the 40 point difference you only lose 1 strength but as mentioned gain It WIll Not Die!
Not 40, just 15. SM dakka dred in 120 pts, GK psybolt dred in 135. Idioticaly small diffrence concidering how much changes jump from Str 7 to 8 ( instanting T4, glancing hits on AV14), not to even mention foliturde and reinforced Aegis.

Bloodangeldante
24-03-2014, 00:55
I agree with camman1984 why not blood angels, their furioso dread is great along with the death company dread


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Navar
24-03-2014, 01:32
So I pulled my Badab war Volume 2 book off of the shelf and the first thing that jumped out at me is the fact that the siege assault vanguard list allows for 4 heavy support, but only 2 Fast attack.

1 Heavy support is compulsory by the way.

They gain access to Siege Dreadnoughts, and have all kinds of cool flavorful special rules.

They retain access to the Iron Hands chapter Tactics, and have access to Techmarines and Masters of the Forge.

In short, if you want to run Dreadnought heavy, I cannot imagine a reason why you wouldn't want to run Siege Assault Vanguard from Imperial Armour Volume 10.

Quite Simply, it is amazing.

draccan
24-03-2014, 01:39
Blood Angels are great for dreads since they can field more than most standard codices. And have the librarian dread (not hq choice). And the furioso has so much flavour.
However dreads are squishy so iron hands feel no pain is great.
The Siege Vanguard list is best imho as you get varied list with many options and dreads as troops.
Imperial armour book for space marines has a chaplain (elite choice) which can be a special character for ultra marines. Space wolves got a hq dread as well.
probably the best dread hq is the salamander fw dread character; expensive in points but great centre piece.

draccan
24-03-2014, 01:51
I am a bit sad that there is no other dread hq than the three special characters for Salamanders (Ashmantle), Space Wolves (Bjorn?), Ultra marines (Titus)

Emoge
24-03-2014, 02:06
Not 40, just 15. SM dakka dred in 120 pts, GK psybolt dred in 135. Idioticaly small diffrence concidering how much changes jump from Str 7 to 8 ( instanting T4, glancing hits on AV14), not to even mention foliturde and reinforced Aegis.

Oops I misread entry, thought both autocannons were same price, also misread the Grey Knight entry thinking they were exact same price too! Thanks for telling me I was wrong and forcing me to reread ^_^ Also Preferred enemy daemons!

I had totally forgotten about Imperial Armour 10! And Bray'arth is perfect! He almost demands a pod to drop down and eat stuff though. Was he ever updated with Hull points? I love him and want him!

The Siege Assault Vanguard looks great for fielding tons of dreads! Ironclads as troops! However, the heavy support slot required really is painful... Guess I'd be forced to take a devastator squad, but seems wasted points when trying to fit in 1-4 knights too.

Edit: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/C/Charcterupdate.pdf is the update for 6th

draccan
24-03-2014, 11:39
Bray'arth Ashmantle kan be a great centre piece if you want to play Salamanders.

Another possible solution for friend games is to use either Bray'arth, Titus, Bjorn as a commander in your own chapter or another known chapter and just convert one. Or to use the HQ elite chaplain choice as a HQ if allowed by opponent.

seraphile
24-03-2014, 11:55
Or chaos with the new dataslate you can field about 12/13 dreads for 1500 points I think.

draccan
24-03-2014, 12:15
Some interesting battles that can come out of this... I see a little potential tourney there!
Siege Vanguard list vs. Chaos Hellbrute lists vs. Ork Killa Kan list from FW vs. Blood Angels

Importman
24-03-2014, 12:18
Do blood angels. Or failing that Eldar with forge world wraithseer as HQ.

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Krucifus
24-03-2014, 12:28
With the new dataslate Chaos Hellbrutes went from a bottom of the pile joke to a good contender for the best Codex's Dreadnoughts, especially as with a walker heavy army you can add in Maulerfiends, Forgefiends, Defilers, Soulgrinders, Plague Hulks, Decimators and Blood Slaughterers (my favourite) for variation. :)

(And if you just love Orks, a Mek with a Deff Dredd and Killer Kans as allies)

Chem-Dog
24-03-2014, 13:29
Have you considered dreadnoughts with Iron Hands chapter tactics? I believe they have It Will Not Die which makes them a whole lot durable.

That it does. FW have Valyund Cal (IA10: The Badab War – Part Two, p181) who uses IH's Chapter Tactics. He gives you Dreadnoughts in both the Elites and HS sections of the FOC, Cyborg relentless Devestators and is virtually a Dreadnought himself with Toughness 6 and the Bulky rule. He's also a fully fledged Tech Marine, so he'll be able to help keep his Dreads alive personally.

duffybear1988
24-03-2014, 13:34
Note that the rules for the Siege Vanguard list and all the FW special characters and chapter tactics are available for FREE on the Forgeworld website.

draccan
24-03-2014, 13:38
The only thing worth noting is that the Siege Vanguard list is a little gimped due to the objective that has to be placed in the opponents area ....

Camman1984
24-03-2014, 13:46
That it does. FW have Valyund Cal (IA10: The Badab War – Part Two, p181) who uses IH's Chapter Tactics. He gives you Dreadnoughts in both the Elites and HS sections of the FOC, Cyborg relentless Devestators and is virtually a Dreadnought himself with Toughness 6 and the Bulky rule. He's also a fully fledged Tech Marine, so he'll be able to help keep his Dreads alive personally.

I got all excited then for relentless devastators as i run iron hands, but he doesnt give them relentless, just makes them unable to run or sweep, more a SnP-1 but with extra toughness.

Banville
26-03-2014, 13:32
I'm using the Siege List at the moment. Great fun. One of the best lists I've ever used. Not very effective, I must admit. But if you want fun over optimal performance, it really can't be beaten. Watch out for anything equipped with melta bombs or haywire, though.

gwarsh41
26-03-2014, 20:31
draccan, your pushing me to want to buy a bundle of AoBR dreds and try out a silly dreadnought list just for all the fun it might be.

draccan
26-03-2014, 20:44
:D
I am stocking up on all the dreads I can buy second hand myself (AoBR esp. is not expensive, but I also got Ironclads and Venerables) and on top of that my Chaplain dread just arrived from FW today. I count on using it as a HQ in friendly battles.

My friend is gathering Ork Killa kans for the FW Ork list and I got him a FW Mega Dread as centre piece too + he got a lot of the old metal kans.

I can't wait for the mayhem to begin! ;)

Nkari
26-03-2014, 21:01
Depends exactly on what kind of dreads you want, if you want the ironclads etc, your choice gets more limited, if you just want venerable and normal dreads, then your choice is huge.. Wich slots do you want your dreadnoughts to fill is another question, since you can have dreads in HQ, elite, Troop, and Heavy, depending on codex.

And considering your thinking of dreads as allies, it would be 2-3 dreads you can fit in, and if you take them as primary, you still need alot of scoring units since dreads cant score since they are vehicles (god I wish troops could score regardless of unit type).. so basicly, let the models you like dictate wich codex you choose, because frankly, allmost all codexes can run 3-6 dreads, especially if you add forgeworld in the mix.

Personally, I would go with allied space wolves, and drop pod bjorn and another dread, along with a drop poded grey wolf pack. Or run a full termi squad with belial, and 1 mortis dread and 1 deathwing dread.. with knights as primary ofc..