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View Full Version : New Taurox - is there a point to chimeras any more?



draccan
25-03-2014, 12:26
Looking at the new Taurox (rumoured rules from Bols, Natfka etc.) I see that it has one less front armour point than a chimera, reroll difficult terrain tests and is supposedly a fast vehicle, cost is on par with a chimera and can be upgraded with better weapons and holds 10 troops.

Do you think that it will deevaluate the chimera as speed and mobility is of the essence in the current 40k meta?

Edit: It has been established that the Taurox is not fast, only the Taurox Prime and that changes the whole thing quite a lot.

Edit 2: The Chimera seems to be more expensive now, around 65 pts. total - that makes the Taurox more viable as cheaper alternative

Denny
25-03-2014, 12:53
Very much depends on its points cost . . .

draccan
25-03-2014, 13:05
Base on is pretty much the same point costs as a chimera

Still Standing
25-03-2014, 13:12
According to Bell it's 25 points more than a base Chimera. That's a lot of points.

draccan
25-03-2014, 13:16
That would be the Taurox prime, check Bell website again (first post). The basic one with autocannon is 5 pts less

Ironbone
25-03-2014, 13:16
Much depends on exact rules. Chimera's front 12 isn't nothing to seeze about ( even if it is sided with barn-sized side Av10 ), so are it's weapons loadouts. Transport capacity 12 also gives some exstra flexibility. Maybe taurox will be decent replacment, maybe it won't, it's too rarly to say.

Still Standing
25-03-2014, 13:21
Less capacity, less weapons, less useful weapons (multi-lasers are amazing), less fire points, less durable. I'd pay 5 points to upgrade to a Chimera.

A.T.
25-03-2014, 13:22
According to Bell it's 25 points more than a base Chimera. That's a lot of points.The prime is (give or take), but is reputed to have a salvo 4 AP3 gun and a mini-battlecannon.
On the flip side the autocannon armed 'storm' chimera is 25 points more than a taurox and has the same number of firepoints.

The bearded one
25-03-2014, 13:24
I think both will have a place. One is softer, but faster, while the other is harder (against str7 spam its higher frontage cuts down the number of penetrating hits by 50% compared to av11), but slower. Something fo everyone, including a different vehicle aesthetic for those who are tired of rhino'esque tracked boxes.

duffybear1988
25-03-2014, 13:35
Less capacity, less weapons, less useful weapons (multi-lasers are amazing), less fire points, less durable. I'd pay 5 points to upgrade to a Chimera.

This.

I would also like to add that the chimera is a beauty and any self respecting Imperial Guard player already has a box full of chimeras. The taurox is ugly, expensive and almost completely pointless because we already had chimeras to start with.

forseer of fates
25-03-2014, 14:00
Since its armour is meh and its guns are soso, I wont be using it, I prefer the armour, several fire points, extra carry capacity and the two guns on the chimera could be argued as better.

Bilmengar
25-03-2014, 14:05
Also the chimera might change with the new codex. (Or not, because they want to sell their new kit?)

New weapon options for the chimera might improve it (though, since the kit already exists, probably not likely). Points might change, Fire points... I'd wait until the codex hits to make comparisons.

And, as others pointed out, Front AV 12 against 11 is nothing to sneeze at. Especially if you intent to roll mechanized and spam chimera hulls, the added durability will pay off I think

forseer of fates
25-03-2014, 14:15
Ive found the s6 on the multi laser to come in handy many times. Its a shame its just on the chimera.

OuroborosTriumphant
25-03-2014, 14:24
The prime is (give or take), but is reputed to have a salvo 4 AP3 gun and a mini-battlecannon.
On the flip side the autocannon armed 'storm' chimera is 25 points more than a taurox and has the same number of firepoints.

The Chimera Storm has other upgrades beyond the autocannon. A regular Chimera can upgrade to have an autocannon in IA 1.2 for not very many points at all.

death2uall
25-03-2014, 17:47
Frankly, I don't give a d@mn how useful the Taurox is or isn't. It's ugly as sin, and I won't have one in my army.

That said, I won't have all that many Chimeras in my army, either. Though I like it, and agree that the extra point of AV in front is useful, I don't see a lot of use in spending lots of points on transport vehicles in a largely-shooty, largely-massed-infantry army. If I wanted every unit to have a transport, I'd have to reduce the size of my army by about half. Or more.

LegioDestructor
25-03-2014, 18:52
I think the Chimera will be around for a while yet.

Taurox benefits: Cheap, re-roll Difficult Terrain
Chimera benefits: +2 transported models, +1 front AV, secondary Heavy Weapon, Amphibious

For 5pts difference I think the Taurox will be used as intended - a light transport for smaller Elite or Reconnaissance elements providing support. It's not an MICV or assault transport, I see it more like a Razorback. I'm not even sure it should be an option for IG squads. It's much more of an Arbites / Scout vehicle to me.

Regarding looks, I like it. It's always good to see a new vehicle kit. Spot on for a light APC / Riot van in the 40k universe, and I can't wait to see what people do with the kit. I'm certain there will be many 6x6 and 8x8 conversions.

Also, I just noticed - the Taurox Prime could be a reboot of the Epic Chimera variants. The Chimerro was armed with a missile launcher, Chimedon with a Battle Cannon, and Chimerax with a pair of Autocannons. Although I don't think the Taurox Prime will still be able to transport 10 models when upgraded to larger weapons. Maybe reduced to 6.

draccan
25-03-2014, 18:57
Wasn't Taurox also supposed to be fast?

Menthak
25-03-2014, 19:00
Considering it's a rumour from Nafka and Bols I wouldn't count on it existing.

Goshawk
25-03-2014, 19:00
Chimeras will always have a place for a number of reasons
-12 model carrying capacity means if you want to put a ten man squad in a transport with a priest or a commissar then you have to go the Chimera route
-A lot of people think the Taurox is ugly
-5 fire points means you get a little more use of your guys inside
-AV 12 means those pesky fire warriors can't glance you to death (while shooting at your front armor)
-Chimeras just look cool

I see Chimeras being the gunline go-to as they work well as gun boats with their weapons and the heavy weapon firing guys inside, while the Taurox is your "race up the flanks to pressure your enemy into where you want them to go" transport.

Voss
25-03-2014, 19:12
The weapons seem a consideration to me. Two S8 shots off a transport (which isn't taking up a FA or HS slot) is a pretty useful thing, and something the Chimera can't replicate, as it deals with target types the Chimera can't replicate. The gat isn't nearly so useful if it is as rumoured- 6 S6/S5 vs 10 S4.... I'd probably take the higher strength shots. The auto cannon and macro? cannon variants I'm less sure about. Though the latter seems pretty indifferent to me. Small blast S7 Ap4 deals with very little well.

Some of the other details matter, as well. Is it BS4 like its passengers?

Smooth Boy
25-03-2014, 19:47
As people have said it maybe has a place in the IG as a scout/elite transport (more so than space marine centurions anyway), but ultimately the Chimera will be IG bread and butter for the foreseeable future I think. Depending on how high those tracks are I may try and turn one into a half track for veterans or something. I hope so anyway, regardless of what you think about the Taurox you have to say the Chimera is better looking and to me as iconic as the Rhino.

Ssilmath
25-03-2014, 19:57
I hope so anyway, regardless of what you think about the Taurox you have to say the Chimera is better looking and to me as iconic as the Rhino.

I'm so glad you've established my aesthetic opinion for me.

DaHedd
25-03-2014, 20:05
Chimera "storm" ???

Do tell. I must have missed that one.

Smooth Boy
25-03-2014, 20:19
As a figure of speech I maybe should have put a question mark after it, but ultimately Ssilmath I think I'm safe in saying most people prefer the Chimera.

Theocracity
25-03-2014, 20:23
As a figure of speech I maybe should have put a question mark after it, but ultimately Ssilmath I think I'm safe in saying most people prefer the Chimera.

What if you've never liked the Chimera to start with?

For what its worth, I think the Taurox has a few builds that look goofy but its base is a really solid model that provides nice options outside the ubiquitous Chimera hull.

OuroborosTriumphant
25-03-2014, 20:23
Chimera "storm" ???

Do tell. I must have missed that one.

A variant Chimera used by the Death Korps of Krieg. Rules for it can be found in Imperial Armour 12.

Smooth Boy
25-03-2014, 20:27
Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say, we'll see. I'll keep my gob closed until I have it in my grubby stained hands.

itcamefromthedeep
25-03-2014, 20:30
Command vehicle. That may be a factor.

Chem-Dog
25-03-2014, 20:53
]
Also, I just noticed - the Taurox Prime could be a reboot of the Epic Chimera variants. The Chimerro was armed with a missile launcher, Chimedon with a Battle Cannon, and Chimerax with a pair of Autocannons.

The 'Rax had Quad autocannons :evilgrin: I'd still rather like those three to be options for standard Chimeras.


Is it BS4 like its passengers?

Seems highly likely for MT at least. We don't know how the thing fits into regular Guard yet, if it's reserved for elites/hq only, it might be Bs4 wherever you find it. Or it could just be be part of the Prime distinction (bonus points for the first person who paints one up as Prime).


Command vehicle. That may be a factor.

Indeed, from what I've read MT seem to have something like the IG's Orders, Somebody somewhere said the HQ is equivalent to a Leiutenant (Junior officer to younger players, Platoon Command Squad Officer for even younger players) in this regard. Would deffinitely reinforce the idea that the Taurox was simply a battlefield taxi if it didn't have it Command Vehicle, but then again, it would make less sense for it to be a HQ/Elite option for standard Guard then.


Anyway. Back to the question, it does seem to be a little bit of a Tautology to have the Chimera and Taurox in such close proximity to each other, both have their plus points over the other, but not so huge as to make either the default option imho.. In a tie breaker, I can see Chimeras getting popped by Tauroxes more often than the other way around. But then again, everything in the game comes out looking a bit weird when you view it through Guard Vs Guard lenses.

Gungo
25-03-2014, 21:08
Command vehicle. That may be a factor.
Consider they are likely going to expand the order system and the fact the chimera may also be reduced in price or given official varients such as with the fw kits. I don't think the chimera is going anywhere. Also at least according to the box there is a seperate prime version for tempestus and the option and rules do not seem to be available to the ig codex. So before we cry wolf let's see the difference in the codex

DaHedd
25-03-2014, 21:20
I loved my Chimeroo. So effective. Pumping out a hunter killer with unlimited range every turn was lovely.

Is the cannon on the Taurox the same as on a Conquer Leman Russ ???

draccan
25-03-2014, 21:23
every turn?

LegioDestructor
25-03-2014, 21:27
Wasn't Taurox also supposed to be fast? Neither BOLS or the Nafka site I looked at had Fast in it's stats. It shouldn't be Fast anyway, Imperial vehicles need major modifications to increase their speed - Blood Angel rhinos and Salamander Recon vehicles both have special mention of their overcharged engines.


Chimera "storm" ??? ...A variant Chimera used by the Death Korps of Krieg.
I was excited to see a Chimera variant as I hadn't heard of this one yet - then I checked it out. Worst. Variant. Ever. [/comicbookguyvoice]


I'd still rather like those three to be options for standard Chimeras.Tell me about it. I figured when the Leman Russ Conqueror was released it was a sign that the cannon would be mated to the Chimera to create the Chimedon. Such an obvious and easy kit to produce.


Is the cannon on the Taurox the same as on a Conqueror Leman Russ?
Nope. Autocannon stats. Heavy 1 blast.


every turn?The Chimerro had a H/K missile launcher in addition to the Multilaser as a turret weapon. I never played Epic but I think it was a multi-round launcher so not One-Shot only.

death2uall
25-03-2014, 23:57
The weapons seem a consideration to me. Two S8 shots off a transport (which isn't taking up a FA or HS slot) is a pretty useful thing

I'd have to agree with this. In fact, if they're THAT cheap in points I might have to take one or two as transports for dedicated antitank units, as opposed to the Vendetta currently in my army list. Of course, I'd have to do some massive conversions so they don't keep looking so half-assed . . . those things truly are hideous.

Mandragola
26-03-2014, 01:15
I'm not sure about the value of the Taurox so far. Being fast isn't much help if you only have one gun. The guys inside can't get out and only snap fire if you go 12", so you mostly don't.

I see that scions are too many points. They cost the same as tactical marines. Somebody at GW hasn't noticed that they have exactly the same chance of killing a marine with their hellgun as the marine has of killing them with his bolt gun, but they are far softer against any other enemy - not that tactical marines are all that good anyway. There's not much point in a specialist "anti-marine" unit, when all it actually does is take on marines with parity (outside of cc, obviously...).

As for the models, I neither hate nor love the taurox and the storm troopers. Both seem basically ok but uninspiring.

In conclusion: meh.

JPThunda
26-03-2014, 03:18
I see no reason not to use both. According to the rumors for ~365 points you could have 4 Chimera and 3 Taurox. Run them as a tank column, 4 chimera line abreast with 3 Taurox line abreast behind them. The Taurox look to be tall enough for the guns to stick up over the top and still receive a cover save from the Chimera obscuring them. If S5 and S6 guns won't hurt your target just pop smoke on the Chimeras so you've got a line of AV 12 5+ Cover Save followed by AV 11 5+ Cover Save. 12 S5 shots, 12 S6 shots, 8 S7 shots with autocannons. That's a lot of fire. Sure, high strength ordnance templates won't be nice to it, but they tanks are cheap enough and the templates aren't too plentiful. That's the kind of threat that can't be ignored on a flank, especially if you've got some infantry squads coming up behind them. Armored fist, anyone?

ehlijen
26-03-2014, 04:37
Yay, apparently bull bars give better terrain clearance ability than all around the hull tracks.

Sanai
26-03-2014, 04:48
I would say they both have a place in guard armies.
Firstly, the Chimera has better armour and firepower- also the Chimera can carry Ogryns. We don't know if the Taurox can.
Secondly, the Taurox has more interesting weapon options and is faster.
Third, many devout imperial guard players care about representing their regiment as a proper military force. We think about things like the logistics and organization of our regiments. Now the Taurox fills a glaring hole in that- before the Taurox we had to resort to forge world to get a 40k equivalent to the Humvee, MRAP or Jeep. In my guard army the Taurox will be widely used as most regiments do not have enough Chimeras to transport all of their troops- and the Taurox will be especially valued by recon squads as a lighter, faster vehicle for getting around and scouting in.

Kakapo42
26-03-2014, 05:08
Something I haven't noticed mentioned here in regards to weapons is how much they can be brought to bear. The Chimera's main weapon is turret-mounted, giving it a full 360 degree firing arc. From what I've seen of the Taurox it appears to have a main weapon that's fixed in a forward facing, making it potentially easier to outflank.

Formerly Wu
26-03-2014, 05:16
The Taurox is unlikely to replace the Chimera unless it's as widely available to the list as the Chimera is.

ehlijen
26-03-2014, 05:32
Something I haven't noticed mentioned here in regards to weapons is how much they can be brought to bear. The Chimera's main weapon is turret-mounted, giving it a full 360 degree firing arc. From what I've seen of the Taurox it appears to have a main weapon that's fixed in a forward facing, making it potentially easier to outflank.

That would be a consideration in a game system where vehicles don't turn for free.

Free turns and side armour equal to its front mean that a Taurox cares less about outflanking than a chimera does.

ashc
26-03-2014, 07:52
I like how the Taurox looks and if these rumours are to be believed then I think it will have a place whilst not invalidating the use of Chimeras.

Goshawk
26-03-2014, 08:00
Both of the units are different enough to warrant having both. From what I've read so far on the Taurox, it won't invalidate the Chimera. And I don't think the Chimera can quite do what the Taurox's best use is, which seems to be racing up flanks with it's Fast vehicle rule and ignoring difficult terrain.

T10
26-03-2014, 09:10
As a figure of speech I maybe should have put a question mark after it, but ultimately Ssilmath I think I'm safe in saying most people prefer the Chimera.

I've only seen one picture of the Taurox, and I think it is butt ugly. Of course, that opinion may be 50% due to the awful colour scheme.

-T10

Chem-Dog
26-03-2014, 12:59
Neither BOLS or the Nafka site I looked at had Fast in it's stats. It shouldn't be Fast anyway, Imperial vehicles need major modifications to increase their speed - Blood Angel rhinos and Salamander Recon vehicles both have special mention of their overcharged engines.

In the text discussing the Taurox it pretty much states that the thing is fast, I appreciate that this isn't necessarily to say the Taurox is Fast. But I'm inclined to believe that it's mentioned for a reason.

You can't really cite modification (or the apparent lack thereof) on a brand new vehicle design, it can simply be a standard feature. it's mentioned in both the Lucifer pattern chassis and Salamander to give justification to why one version of a vehicle chassis goes faster than every other version.
For what it's worth, with four separate track units, it's probably got at least four engines and as it appears to be a relatively light vehicle, that should be enough to ensure a decent level of agility, if not straight line speed.


The Chimerro had a H/K missile launcher in addition to the Multilaser as a turret weapon. I never played Epic but I think it was a multi-round launcher so not One-Shot only.

Yeah it had no limit to the number of shots it had over and above 1 per turn..



I've only seen one picture of the Taurox, and I think it is butt ugly. Of course, that opinion may be 50% due to the awful colour scheme.

Seen one in what equates to drab olive with the bling toned down (might be the non Prime verion), it's hard to be subjective about it as I like it outright, but it does look less...silly when it's less garishly painted. I think it'll also be one of those vehicles that will look best when sensible weathering is applied.
I think it's nice that there's some variety in the weapon mounts, it could have been the usual case of one turret with several barrel options, but I've seen three distinct mountings which at least helps a cluster of differently armed vehicles look a bit more interesting.

Mauler
26-03-2014, 14:06
The Taurox is unlikely to replace the Chimera unless it's as widely available to the list as the Chimera is.

This. All we know 100% at the moment is that Scions can take it, as can their HQ for the Taurox Prime.

It might be that Scions carry over into the new IG codex as Elites and they're the only guys to bring it.

Senbei
26-03-2014, 15:19
I've only seen one picture of the Taurox, and I think it is butt ugly. Of course, that opinion may be 50% due to the awful colour scheme.

-T10

And 50% the fact that they've put it on tiny, wee toddler tracks? It could look really good... if it had wheels. R.E. The Quad Gun Tractor the British army used in the 1940s (Tamiya did a nice model of this).

Mauler
26-03-2014, 16:09
And 50% the fact that they've put it on tiny, wee toddler tracks? It could look really good... if it had wheels. R.E. The Quad Gun Tractor the British army used in the 1940s (Tamiya did a nice model of this).

Contrary to popular opinion the quad tracks are a perfectly viable method of carrying heavy vehicles over rough terrain, Google for Mattracks and you'll see them fitted to all sorts of things instead of road wheels. As long as the tracks have the space to adjust to differences in the height of the contact surface they should be alright. The thing with the Taurox is that in the pics the track units look like they're very close to the chassis which may make them too rigid to do the job.

But yeah, Warhammer miniatures =/= reality.

draccan
26-03-2014, 16:59
The rules are out now, so it is established that the Taurox is not fast, but the Taurox Prime is. That changes the whole thing quite a lot. If the rule pages are genuine (white dwarf leak) then the Chimera definitely still has a place against the base Taurox. Also it is a tank, which the taurox isn't.

Theocracity
26-03-2014, 17:23
The rules are out now, so it is established that the Taurox is not fast, but the Taurox Prime is. That changes the whole thing quite a lot. If the rule pages are genuine (white dwarf leak) then the Chimera definitely still has a place against the base Taurox. Also it is a tank, which the taurox isn't.

It's also interesting that the Prime seems limited to Militarum Tempestus units, while the regular one is exclusively mentioned as being for Guard (any unit that can use a Chimera). It'd be interesting to see how this changes in the inevitable shift from WD rules to codex rules.

LegioDestructor
26-03-2014, 18:14
You can't really cite modification on a brand new vehicle design... it's probably got at least four engines and as it appears to be a relatively light vehicle, that should be enough to ensure a decent level of agility, if not straight line speed.True enough, but the reasoning for a fast transport en masse in an IG force just isn't there. I see the four track units as being there for the Dangerous Terrain bonus only. The Taurox Prime being limited to Tempestus units, being Fast, and having significant weapon options makes far more sense; an elite vehicle for an elite unit. Missile Launcher + Linked Autocannon turns the Prime into quite the little MICV for about the price of a Predator - now the IG have BMP-1s!. Also worth noting the Prime is Bs4...

A Fast tank armed with missile launchers transporting Ap3 Storm Troopers, hmm. if there ever comes a squad option, rather than full platoon, I might have to tweak my allied IG list.

Many devout imperial guard players care about representing their regiment as a proper military force. We think about things like the logistics and organization of our regiments. Now the Taurox fills a glaring hole in that- before the Taurox we had to resort to forge world to get a 40k equivalent to the Humvee, MRAP or Jeep.QFT!

DaHedd
26-03-2014, 19:00
I can see the potential for a few FW variants of the Taurox depending on how the rear of the vehicle fits together. Flat bed cargo, hydra platform, MLRS. I reckon i'll get one for the sake of it. The normal version though, the primes just daft.

With regards to the old Citadel Journal Chimera conversions the Chimeroo fired one HK missile a turn. Was a nice option, I only had one. Used it as my Colonels ride. Never tried the Chimdeon, the cannon was way too big for the turret.

nedsta
26-03-2014, 20:47
And 50% the fact that they've put it on tiny, wee toddler tracks? It could look really good... if it had wheels. R.E. The Quad Gun Tractor the British army used in the 1940s (Tamiya did a nice model of this).

I was thinking the exact same thing, might look ok as a half track too.

Nkari
26-03-2014, 21:06
Contrary to popular opinion the quad tracks are a perfectly viable method of carrying heavy vehicles over rough terrain, Google for Mattracks and you'll see them fitted to all sorts of things instead of road wheels. As long as the tracks have the space to adjust to differences in the height of the contact surface they should be alright. The thing with the Taurox is that in the pics the track units look like they're very close to the chassis which may make them too rigid to do the job.

But yeah, Warhammer miniatures =/= reality.

ALL of GW's tracked vehicles on the imperium side bar the rino chasis (and the baneblade chasis) have SERIOUS comfortability and terrain performance issues because of the one track link of leeway they have on their suspension before their hull hits what ever rock, or so..

Rhaivaen
27-03-2014, 09:24
I was thinking the exact same thing, might look ok as a half track too.

I think merging the tracks as one unit for the back half and some nice wheels for the front will do miracles :)

Still Standing
27-03-2014, 12:12
Pretty sure they were going for a cross between a Mastiff (http://warisboring.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/mastiff-mine-resistant-trucks-british-army-shaiba-dec-15-2007small.jpg) and a Viking (http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/europe/united_kingdom/light_armoured/bvs10_viking/BVS10_Viking_amphibious_all-terrain_armoured_vehicle_BAE_Systems_VHM_vehicule_ haute_mobilite_British_army_United_kingdom_line_dr awing_1.jpg). In that it succeeds very well. I'll pick one (or more) for my Vostroyans and find a way to build some bar armour on it.

Mauler
27-03-2014, 17:00
ALL of GW's tracked vehicles on the imperium side bar the rino chasis (and the baneblade chasis) have SERIOUS comfortability and terrain performance issues because of the one track link of leeway they have on their suspension before their hull hits what ever rock, or so..

But it's nice that they're low enough to get a cover save...right? ;)

Frep
27-03-2014, 17:14
True enough, but the reasoning for a fast transport en masse in an IG force just isn't there. I see the four track units as being there for the Dangerous Terrain bonus only. The Taurox Prime being limited to Tempestus units, being Fast, and having significant weapon options makes far more sense; an elite vehicle for an elite unit. Missile Launcher + Linked Autocannon turns the Prime into quite the little MICV for about the price of a Predator - now the IG have BMP-1s!. Also worth noting the Prime is Bs4...

A Fast tank armed with missile launchers transporting Ap3 Storm Troopers, hmm. if there ever comes a squad option, rather than full platoon, I might have to tweak my allied IG list.
QFT!

If I'm reading the White Dwarf rumours correctly, the Scions can also be functionally taken as squads. The platoon structure I believe is 1-3 Scions squads and MAY take a scion command squad. Again I could be wrong, I only had a quick skim of the rules, but I'm pretty sure the command squad is optional. So if an IG player wanted, they could take 3 "Platoons" of Scions with only one squad each to fill up their elite slots.

Chem-Dog
27-03-2014, 18:06
True enough, but the reasoning for a fast transport en masse in an IG force just isn't there

Well the IG tends to be made up of regiments that specialises in one mode of warfare each, one could argue that a fast recon force makes as much sense as any other type. That said it looks unlikely that the IG will get the fast one. I suppose then the "fast" nature of the Primes is explained as having something going on under the hood, like the Lucifer pattern tanks and the like.


I can see the potential for a few FW variants of the Taurox depending on how the rear of the vehicle fits together. Flat bed cargo, hydra platform, MLRS

Halftrack and wheeled options too! Looking forward to seeing some "De-Militarised" versions. I know neither GW or FW have much interest in giving us Civvy vehicles but there's enough talented folk out there to make the likelihood of seeing some quite high.


So if an IG player wanted, they could take 3 "Platoons" of Scions with only one squad each to fill up their elite slots.

Why would we want to do that?! I know the IG Elite section has long been bereft of any significantly worthwhile options, but still.
Worse case is Platoons will let us take a decent number of MT troops alongside regular IG via Allies.

MagicHat
27-03-2014, 18:36
The Taurox have mag-plates underneath it, "repelling the vehicle away from the ground below".

The prime have supercharged engines.

Necrontyr
27-03-2014, 18:41
I think it's great that we finally have a transport that's not an IFV. I've always wanted a truck type transport for an IG army, and the Taurox looks very similar to a Stryker type vehicle.

Hawkkf
27-03-2014, 22:01
I am not sure the chimera will be the same as it is now. The taurox has to pay for a searchlight and smoke launchers which the chimera currently has for free. I expect the chimera to follow this precedent and get a point hike as well. I think we can easily see a chimera cost around 75 points which would make the new taurox a cheaper lighter alternative. In the end I think fully mechanized/ heavy vehicle guard will still prefer the chimera, but the taurox will be cheap expendable mobility for other guard armies.

DJElam
28-03-2014, 02:01
I say it's too early to compare them together.
1. We don't know what changes are coming for the chimera, if any.
2. The Taurox may look ugly to many but that will only make people convert them. I know I will if the rules are any good. That front track is the first thing to go, just need to find a tire that will work.
3. Now I haven't seen any pics of the back, does the Taurox have a back hatch or just the ones on the side? That will change how it's used.
4. GW is greedy, the Taurox will have it's own place. One that the chimera can't fill, and that would mean the chimera will still have it's place. Or at lest that's my line of thinking.
It the end I'm a guard player and I have room for two more tanks in my carrying case, what those tanks will be will depend on the the final rules.

mostlyharmless
28-03-2014, 02:25
One very important distinction will always have the chimera winning out over the Taurox. The chimera is amphibious. I'd like to see those Taurox cross a water feature without sinking to the bottom. Yes, I know, water features don't always come up that often, but I like to be prepared for anything, come hell or (heh heh) high water.

Sanai
28-03-2014, 03:50
Most water features on battlefields are not deep enough to be a problem for non-amphibious vehicles- at most the Taurox might want a snorkel attachment.

The amphibious problem only comes up if you need to cross a lake or carry out an amphibious assault, or ford the deepest part of a river.

I don't think tabletop 40k ever really has terrain with water that deep.

mostlyharmless
28-03-2014, 04:46
That's because hardly anyone bothers to make water features for their games.

WLBjork
28-03-2014, 06:56
But it's nice that they're low enough to get a cover save...right? ;)

I hope that's a sarcastic comment referring to how oversize GW vehicles are compared to modern day :p

Hawkkf
28-03-2014, 07:32
To be fair the last time I saw a water feature was during 7th edition fantasy when the skink cloud was popular. At some point peopel got sick of skinks getting good cover saves and shooting while most things couldnt bother them. Thats when I noticed water terrain dissappearing. Also it is difficult for some to make it using a water effect. A large pond or something is really just a patch of non los blocking terrain that is easier to go around. Actual rivers take multiple terrain sections to complete and often are only seen in narrative style battles where terrain is placed to tell a story or just look nice.
In 40k water features are just difficult terrain (assuming you dont treat is as mysterious) so most vehicles will pass by it without too much notice. Being amphibious means the chimera is only slightly better (2.8% I think) than the taurox's atv reroll in this one circumstancial use. This also means that the taurox is better at all other terrain as it basically has built in dozer blades.

Spider-pope
28-03-2014, 13:38
For me there is still a point, namely the Chimaera looks good. The Taurox doesn't. They could give it all the amazing rules in the world, but i'm not going to field one.

Sotek
28-03-2014, 14:24
New Model - check
Better than old model - check
Better than old model people already have enough of - Check.
New Price - check

I'd say it renders chimeras obsolete!

Voss
28-03-2014, 16:00
New Model - check
Better than old model - check
Better than old model people already have enough of - Check.
New Price - check

I'd say it renders chimeras obsolete!not sure how you arrived at your conclusions... It certainly isn't from the WD page, as the base taurox only has a twin AC, and there are better places to get those and cheaper.

The prime builds get expensive fast, and most of the weapon options are mediocre. The missile/AC version is probably the best, but well into 3 digits in terms of points. And the prime is relatively rare in the general scheme of the FOC.

Wayshuba
28-03-2014, 16:10
Contrary to popular opinion the quad tracks are a perfectly viable method of carrying heavy vehicles over rough terrain, Google for Mattracks and you'll see them fitted to all sorts of things instead of road wheels. As long as the tracks have the space to adjust to differences in the height of the contact surface they should be alright. The thing with the Taurox is that in the pics the track units look like they're very close to the chassis which may make them too rigid to do the job.

But yeah, Warhammer miniatures =/= reality.

You are correct, especially for arctic vehicles, except.... on the Taurox they are upside down!!! The narrow side is always up and fitted to ONE wheel (the main vehicle wheel) and the rest is a track extension that broadens the base of the wheel carry.

Second, while it is a viable configuration for off-road travel - it is never used on military grade vehicles. One shot on one of the drive wheels, taking it out, will render the entire vehicle immobile.

And the Taurox is going to get shot at A LOT, just to get such a butt ugly model off the table and not having to look at it for six turns....

Still Standing
28-03-2014, 19:44
Second, while it is a viable configuration for off-road travel - it is never used on military grade vehicles. One shot on one of the drive wheels, taking it out, will render the entire vehicle immobile.

I love it when people talk in absolutes, but are absolutely wrong. The Viking BVS10 (http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/23247.aspx) is an articulated vehicle, meaning it's one vehicle which bends in the middle, not a vehicle and trailer, which runs on 4 tracks.

Wayshuba
28-03-2014, 20:13
I love it when people talk in absolutes, but are absolutely wrong. The Viking BVS10 (http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/23247.aspx) is an articulated vehicle, meaning it's one vehicle which bends in the middle, not a vehicle and trailer, which runs on 4 tracks.

Ummmm, yeah, except that is NOT what the Taurox is. The articulated vehicles are set with tank drives, thus why the tread runs under the whole piece of each vehicle like so: http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2011/06/16/canadian-armys-renewed-interest-in-arctic-draws-out-equipment-manufacturers-looking-to-provide-tracked-vehicles-photos/
The taurox is NOT an articulated vehicle (which is just designed that way to turn a longer vehicle more tightly).

Here are the vehicles more akin to the Taurox:

http://www.dpccars.com/gallery/index.php/Funny-Car-Pictures-March-23---2014/Funny-Car-Pictures-March-23-2014-20

http://www.arcticwebsite.com/ArcticVehicleDir.html

And the closet to it in modern design - the Moon-1 Humevee Rover: http://www.italiahummerclub.com/meccanicacarrozzeria

Szalik
28-03-2014, 20:37
Taurox and Scions are now on GW page. I must say I like this vehicle more than I should...apart from the cannon version, there is something that does not sit with me well, but the classic olive version...damn. And it looks like the scale, compared to infantry is not that bad too.

Necrontyr
28-03-2014, 20:42
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3870405a_99120105054_TauroxPrime05_873x627.jpg

This right there, that's a military truck, and it's freaking sweet.

Hawkkf
28-03-2014, 21:29
Here is a silly question. To fire a twin linked weapon do both barrels have to draw los to the target or just one? If its both then the taurox will have a very limited fire arc. (I am correct they are t/l and not individual right?)

Kakapo42
28-03-2014, 22:27
Taurox and Scions are now on GW page. I must say I like this vehicle more than I should...apart from the cannon version, there is something that does not sit with me well, but the classic olive version...damn. And it looks like the scale, compared to infantry is not that bad too.

Agreed. I reckon the main problem with the official Taurox is the official paint scheme it's been given, and that with a more weathered, subtle, and naturalistic tone it looks much better.

NemoSD
28-03-2014, 23:01
All I know is I want them. With the more WWII stylizing of my army, Chimera's never quite fit, these bad boys do.

Voss
29-03-2014, 00:46
Here is a silly question. To fire a twin linked weapon do both barrels have to draw los to the target or just one? If its both then the taurox will have a very limited fire arc. (I am correct they are t/l and not individual right?)

As far as I know, no. I can't think of any other model where the guns are so poorly placed though. The turret option is fine, just the fixed hull version is utter bats, especially since the exhaust pipes are pushing them away from the hull. Well. On one side, anyway (at least in the overhead shot).

Its annoying enough that sponson vehicles often can't bring all their guns to bear on a single target, to do it worse with a tl weapon is just ridiculous.

Theocracity
29-03-2014, 01:33
As far as I know, no. I can't think of any other model where the guns are so poorly placed though. The turret option is fine, just the fixed hull version is utter bats, especially since the exhaust pipes are pushing them away from the hull. Well. On one side, anyway (at least in the overhead shot).

Its annoying enough that sponson vehicles often can't bring all their guns to bear on a single target, to do the worse with a tl weapon is just ridiculous.

Yeah...I like the standard Taurox and certain builds of the Prime are growing on me, but those fixed hull guns are just weird. I would avoid that placement at all costs.

Darnok
29-03-2014, 01:46
I guess there will be a hell of a lot of rule disputes about what those fixed weapons can shoot at. Realistically, you'd have to be in front of the Taurox, with an almost straight line of sight - making these weapons pretty useless.

Voss
29-03-2014, 05:16
I guess there will be a hell of a lot of rule disputes about what those fixed weapons can shoot at. Realistically, you'd have to be in front of the Taurox, with an almost straight line of sight - making these weapons pretty useless.

Realistically, yes. In terms of game rules, as hull mounted weapons, they'd technically have the 45 degree angle, and since vehicles can turn in infinite circles after they move, it isn't really difficult to line up a shot. Pain to protect the side armor, though. And there actually should be a dead spot in front of the vehicle, but that is based on the sponson mounted diagram. Side hull mounted weapons don't have a diagram, but just the weird exceptions that almost never come up rule and the 'assumption' that all weapons can swivel 45 degree horizontal (at the end of the paragraph).

It should never be an issue for the basic taurox- anyone with sense is going to assemble it as turret/pintle mounted, because that gives 360 field of fire, no question. But the secondary weapon system on the taurox is going to suffer from this nonsense, especially since its mounted on the back third of the vehicle, rather than... the front, where it might have a field of fire.

The other thing that amuses me is the gatling/mini battle cannon turret. The whole thing rotates with the spotter's hatch, as a single mechanism. That means one of several situations:
1-they're locked in place when the thing rotates.
2- It can't rotate if the spotter is using the hatch
3- The spotter is crushed dead by the rotation of the turret.
4- the spotter has a survival instinct, and never goes anywhere near that hatch.

Chem-Dog
29-03-2014, 10:48
4- the spotter has a survival instinct, and never goes anywhere near that hatch.

According to the blurb Militarum Tempestus Soldiers fanatically follow orders even if it means they will die..... So I don't see 4 being an option ;)

MajorWesJanson
29-03-2014, 12:36
The other thing that amuses me is the gatling/mini battle cannon turret. The whole thing rotates with the spotter's hatch, as a single mechanism. That means one of several situations:
1-they're locked in place when the thing rotates.
2- It can't rotate if the spotter is using the hatch
3- The spotter is crushed dead by the rotation of the turret.
4- the spotter has a survival instinct, and never goes anywhere near that hatch.

Huh? I don't get what you are saying. The turret rotates around the spotter hatch, and gattling gun/battle cannon are mounted on the right side. It's asymetrical, but rotates around the hatch.

Ironbone
29-03-2014, 14:40
Exactly. There are lots of vechicles with asymetric turrets, not even neccesary military ones :p.

corps
29-03-2014, 21:47
190303

About the Taurox their sculpt is barely above that. Made me think of a old battle report in white dwarf where an ork player use that kind of toy truck with just some paint and pieces of ork weapon. I really hate the model.

Voss
29-03-2014, 23:03
Huh? I don't get what you are saying. The turret rotates around the spotter hatch, and gattling gun/battle cannon are mounted on the right side. It's asymetrical, but rotates around the hatch.

Doesn't look that way to me. It looks like it rotates around a central point. Its hard to tell since both the gun and the spotter's hatch fail to be flush with the hull at different points.

Kakapo42
29-03-2014, 23:24
Doesn't look that way to me. It looks like it rotates around a central point. Its hard to tell since both the gun and the spotter's hatch fail to be flush with the hull at different points.

I think MajorWesJanson may be right. Looking at the missile-armed variant, it looks like the hatch does not change position, so it looks like the turret turns around the hatch.

EDIT: and the autocannon-armed regular Taurox confirms it. Look at the autocannon turret - it's point of rotation is the hatch, not the centre.

Inquisitor Shego
30-03-2014, 08:39
190303

About the Taurox their sculpt is barely above that. Made me think of a old battle report in white dwarf where an ork player use that kind of toy truck with just some paint and pieces of ork weapon. I really hate the model.

I lol'd hard. I have to agree I dislike the asthetic and the almost Empire Steam Tank vibe to it. But on the other hand, respect to GW for trying

Darnok
30-03-2014, 09:39
190303

About the Taurox their sculpt is barely above that. Made me think of a old battle report in white dwarf where an ork player use that kind of toy truck with just some paint and pieces of ork weapon. I really hate the model.

I remember that battle report. Those Ork vehicles looked awesome! Shows once more that the Taurox is actually an early Ork release, poorly disguised as an IG vehicle. :D

Kingly
30-03-2014, 11:53
it is a odd choice...

Rhaivaen
31-03-2014, 02:16
I like the later weapons which seem an hull mounted weapon only, IF i ever buy any of the Taurox then I will probably end up using them in a different config.
And change the front tracks for wheels :)

Amnar
31-03-2014, 06:43
Looking at the new Taurox (rumoured rules from Bols, Natfka etc.) I see that it has one less front armour point than a chimera, reroll difficult terrain tests and is supposedly a fast vehicle, cost is on par with a chimera and can be upgraded with better weapons and holds 10 troops.

Do you think that it will deevaluate the chimera as speed and mobility is of the essence in the current 40k meta?

Edit: It has been established that the Taurox is not fast, only the Taurox Prime and that changes the whole thing quite a lot.

The chimera doesn't look like ****..
It has that going for it...

Hawkkf
31-03-2014, 06:58
I am very anxious to see the tempestus codes as they are supposed to have access to chimeras and valkyries. It will be our first look at what kind of changes to expect in the main codex. I still believe the chimera will lose its free searchlight and smoke launchers and will get a price bump. It has 2 extra seats, 1 extra front armor, the command vehicle rule, and a hull mounted weapon. The taurox has a slightly better main weapon, built in dozer blades and has to pay for searchlights and smoke launchers, but I cant see it being only 5 points cheaper than the chimera. I think the chimera will fall between the taurox and taurx prime. The taurox will be a cheap mobile truck option, the chimera will be a more expensive ifv work horse, and the prime will be the elite fast transport for limited units (scions and possibly commissars as they share the book). Honestly the prime is the least useful as you pay for fighting capability but with such low survivability you wont get much return on the invesment. The taurox chasis really should have had a rule that lessens the stength of an explodes result.

Konovalev
31-03-2014, 16:24
About the Taurox their sculpt is barely above that. I really hate the model.

I think GW was aiming for the MRAP with the Taurox design, but if so they managed to botch it well and good

MRAP:
190429

Ssilmath
31-03-2014, 16:35
I think GW was aiming for the MRAP with the Taurox design, but if so they managed to botch it well and good

I dunno, I've seen many an MRAP in person and I think they got the essence down pretty good. I'll wait till I have a model in hand and painted, but outside of the tracks I personally think they nailed it.

Krucifus
31-03-2014, 16:54
If the twin linked Autocannon on the basic Taurox are mounted either side on the hull, and it wants to shoot at an enemy that is anywhere except dead ahead, that would mean only 1 of the 2 guns can see him... Does that stop it being Twin-Linked? :D

Ironbone
31-03-2014, 18:06
Does that stop it being Twin-Linked?
Fluffwise ? Yes. Rulewise ? Hell no :p.

KingDeath
31-03-2014, 19:49
Chimeras don't look like crap, that would be their main point imo. I realy start to wonder what some of GW's vehicle designers must be smoking or if the companies falling revenue leaves only enough money to hire competent infantry sculptors while the vehicles have to be made by some intern at Hasbro.

Ruination Drinker
31-03-2014, 22:45
Hey, I like the wheels on that toy Jeep. They'd look pretty flash on a Taurox-wagon conversion.

tezdal
01-04-2014, 02:13
Don't care what the rules are, the model is hideous and won't be buying one.

NemoSD
01-04-2014, 03:32
Don't care what the rules are, the model is hideous and won't be buying one.

This goes to taste. I personally love the model. Not partial to the blue paint job, but I like the model. Then again, I also like the Landspeeder Vengeance, which I am told I should see as hideous, fact is, and I am not accusing you of it, I have noticed that if a certain number of people say a model is ugly, the rest of the people look at a model and expect ugly. I was perhaps lucky to see it before reading comments on it.

It fits the trucks I'd rather have in my IG army. I wanted transports, but I did not like Chimeras because I want mobile infantry, not armored mechanized. If these were half-tracks, it would be perfect, and I do not see a half track conversion as that hard either, although it would not have the half track look to it. I will probably still use my Chimeras, but as command vehicles now, instead of transports.

MajorWesJanson
01-04-2014, 04:03
This goes to taste. I personally love the model. Not partial to the blue paint job, but I like the model. Then again, I also like the Landspeeder Vengeance, which I am told I should see as hideous, fact is, and I am not accusing you of it, I have noticed that if a certain number of people say a model is ugly, the rest of the people look at a model and expect ugly. I was perhaps lucky to see it before reading comments on it.

It fits the trucks I'd rather have in my IG army. I wanted transports, but I did not like Chimeras because I want mobile infantry, not armored mechanized. If these were half-tracks, it would be perfect, and I do not see a half track conversion as that hard either, although it would not have the half track look to it. I will probably still use my Chimeras, but as command vehicles now, instead of transports.

The Land Speeder Vengeance is not a bad model (barring the excessive amount of DA bling plastered on it), it's the rules that really let it down. I'm thinking it may make a good base for a Mechanicus hover-tank to run as a Tau Hammerhead though.

Inquisitor Shego
01-04-2014, 04:09
The Land Speeder vengeance would look better without the marine right on its nose. This model would look better with wheels and less empire fantasy blind like the crest. Other than that, a solid candidate

NemoSD
01-04-2014, 04:47
The Land Speeder vengeance would look better without the marine right on its nose. This model would look better with wheels and less empire fantasy blind like the crest. Other than that, a solid candidate

Y'all missed the point :-p

death2uall
01-04-2014, 09:42
Actually, I'm thinking that a 1/48 scale M3 Half Track from any of a half dozen WWII modeling houses would work very well as a Taurox; cover the rear compartment (maybe with pieces from a Rhino or Chimera model) and place a small turret in the .50 cal MG ring, and you're good to go. Much better looking and already a half track. ;) I admit that 1/48 is a little big for 28 mm scale, but most IG vehicles seem a little oversized anyway. Corgi also makes a 1/50 M3 out of die cast metal that might be fun to play around with.

Vaktathi
01-04-2014, 18:42
Personally, I can't stand the Taurox model. It's as if a WHFB Empire Steamtank made love to an Ork Battlewagon. Maybe if it had wheels, were a little shorter, a little longer, and a little wider, with less stuff stuck all over it, it might be cool looking?

That said, in terms of rules, if the base Taurox were Fast, it might have a point (or have had one were it still 5th edition). as is, in the 6E metagame of "lol HP's", the Taurox is just a wannabe Chimera that'll die even faster (for the same investment), while the Prime is too expensive with too low an expected lifespan to justify its pricetag. Razorbacks won't work particularly well in 6th, and, unless we're missing something, Taurox Prime's don't look any better.

Ultimately it's an ugly and poorly executed model trying to fill a role that didn't need filling, an ugly answer to an unasked question :p

MagicHat
01-04-2014, 19:04
That said, in terms of rules, if the base Taurox were Fast, it might have a point (or have had one were it still 5th edition). as is, in the 6E metagame of "lol HP's", the Taurox is just a wannabe Chimera that'll die even faster (for the same investment), while the Prime is too expensive with too low an expected lifespan to justify its pricetag. Razorbacks won't work particularly well in 6th, and, unless we're missing something, Taurox Prime's don't look any better.


It does have range going for it, and can be kept out of sight, move 12"/come out from reserve and shoot with a 2 shot ML and autocannon.

Mike3791
01-04-2014, 20:48
That said, in terms of rules, if the base Taurox were Fast, it might have a point (or have had one were it still 5th edition). as is, in the 6E metagame of "lol HP's", the Taurox is just a wannabe Chimera that'll die even faster (for the same investment), while the Prime is too expensive with too low an expected lifespan to justify its pricetag. Razorbacks won't work particularly well in 6th, and, unless we're missing something, Taurox Prime's don't look any better.


I thought the Taurox weapons were BS4 and twin linked, that alone might make it competitive.. also thought it was cheaper and with better weapons.

Vaktathi
01-04-2014, 22:09
I thought the Taurox weapons were BS4 and twin linked, that alone might make it competitive.. also thought it was cheaper and with better weapons.

AV11/10/10 and nearly 100pts or more after kit, with 6E's HP mechanic they're very easily removed for what they cost.

Ssilmath
01-04-2014, 22:25
Yeah, we know that where you play every other model is armed with an Autocannon. Other people may not play in an environment so unfriendly to light vehicles.

Vaktathi
01-04-2014, 22:45
Yeah, we know that where you play every other model is armed with an Autocannon. Other people may not play in an environment so unfriendly to light vehicles.autocannons, scatterlasers, wave serpent energy wave thingy, multilasers, missile pods, Tesla cannons, vector strikes, Lootas, etc are probably fairly common in most play groups.

NemoSD
01-04-2014, 23:09
autocannons, scatterlasers, wave serpent energy wave thingy, multilasers, missile pods, Tesla cannons, vector strikes, Lootas, etc are probably fairly common in most play groups.

So something is only useful if it is immortal or if you have to build a list to kill it?

Vaktathi
01-04-2014, 23:17
So something is only useful if it is immortal or if you have to build a list to kill it?no, not at all, but it should be able to consistently provide value on its investment, something that (in my experience and what I believe to be backed up by most common advice on forums such as this and by most tournament results), an AV11 vehicle clocking in at roughly the same cost as an AV12 vehicle with two heavy weapons probably won't do, and at nearly double that cost for the Prime will likely provide even less routinely as a result of how easy it is to strip HP's from such vehicles.

Now, there could be some sort of special rule or wargear upgrade or something I don't know about that may change that, but, in my experience, AV11 vehicles for that kind of investment aren't stellar contributors to games.

AngryAngel
02-04-2014, 00:13
Aside from just disliking it because they don't think it looks very good. I'd say the vehicles weakness lies in its stature as well as its point cost. It just simply, as the prime costs too much and is too large for such a low AV. At least as far as pics show it is a bit on the large side. Being low AV wouldn't be its death, as a viable choice alone, but being low AV and high point cost mixed into the deal goes a way to making it seem like a poor choice.

Second point of note, it fills a similar role to a chimera for the same army which also has a potent weapon load out, with higher frontal armor and the same side and rear for a cheaper point cost. Now we don't know yet how any of that may change for the chimera but with what we know, I don't think you can be faulted for saying the standard chimera just ends up looking better, based on size of model, comparable weapon load out, better fire point, etc.

The Taurox might be viable if you dig the twin linked auto cannons, the prime comes out over expensive but fast, with a higher point value and a better pay load, however questionable it may be, as with that lower AV and larger form it will generally die sooner then its competition the chimera.

Would that be a fair estimation ? Anything else to add to the equation ?

As well, many have a good number of chimeras, so if it doesn't bring a lot to the game, why not just save your money and stick with what you know can work from a fiscal stand point as well.

Chem-Dog
02-04-2014, 00:37
no, not at all, but it should be able to consistently provide value on its investment, something that (in my experience and what I believe to be backed up by most common advice on forums such as this and by most tournament results), an AV11 vehicle clocking in at roughly the same cost as an AV12 vehicle with two heavy weapons probably won't do, and at nearly double that cost for the Prime will likely provide even less routinely as a result of how easy it is to strip HP's from such vehicles.

Of course, we are assuming that the Chimera stays exactly the same and doesn't cost any more. it wouldn't take a large points increase on the Chimera to make the Taurox seem like a more viable option.

The silly thing is, to make the Taurox a viable alternative at this level, all they needed to do was give it AV11 on the sides. For the love of Him on Terra, a transport that doesn't get whittled down to scrap by any old squad of nearby mooks, that's all I ask for.
It's not even like it'd be particularly uncharacteristic for the vehicle in it's stated battlefield role.

Ssilmath
02-04-2014, 00:42
For the love of Him on Terra, a transport that doesn't get whittled down to scrap by any old squad of nearby mooks, that's all I ask for.
It's not even like it'd be particularly uncharacteristic for the vehicle in it's stated battlefield role.

Which squad of nearby mooks? The super soldiers with gyrojet rocket submachine guns? Or the ones firing a storm of monomolecular blades? Or the ones that strip the atoms from the target with every shot? Or the race whose idea of low caliber firepower is .50 cal? Maybe the ones who arm all of their troops with plasma guns?

How about against the kind of troops that the Taurox will face the majority of the time in the background? Traitor Guardsmen and cultists can't hurt the thing without dedicated heavy or special weapons.

Commotionpotion
02-04-2014, 02:18
For those who find the Taurox less than pleasing visually (including myself) here's a suggestion - convert them out of good old Space Marine Rhinos instead. These are:

a) better looking (at least IMO)
b) cheaper to buy (at least for the base kit)
c) have plenty of potential for mounting turret and hull weapons on them (they're basically boxes to begin with)
d) are lower profile on the battlefield
e) apparently have nearly the same statline in terms of armour values, transport capacity and access points - the only visual differences are the weapon mounts (easily extemporised - in fact I bet the actual Taurox turrets would look quite good on a Rhino), the top hatch (easily blanked off) and the firepoints (easily represented by slots modelled onto the Rhino side doors, which could also account for the Taurox's lower Side Armour values). The Difficult Terrain bonus is represented simply by integral Rough Terrain Modifications (Dozer Blade). The only non-WYSIWYG aspect is the fact that the Prime is Fast, which shouldn't be a problem if you've sunk enough effort into making a good conversion.

Some might interpret this as modelling for advantage in some way, but quite honestly, I'd view it as modelling for advantage in aesthetics ;).

Formerly Wu
02-04-2014, 02:50
How about against the kind of troops that the Taurox will face the majority of the time in the background? Traitor Guardsmen and cultists can't hurt the thing without dedicated heavy or special weapons.
To be fair, krak grenades and support weapons like heavy bolters aren't that uncommon among those foes, and pose a significant threat to the Taurox's side armor.

AngryAngel
02-04-2014, 04:33
Which squad of nearby mooks? The super soldiers with gyrojet rocket submachine guns? Or the ones firing a storm of monomolecular blades? Or the ones that strip the atoms from the target with every shot? Or the race whose idea of low caliber firepower is .50 cal? Maybe the ones who arm all of their troops with plasma guns?

How about against the kind of troops that the Taurox will face the majority of the time in the background? Traitor Guardsmen and cultists can't hurt the thing without dedicated heavy or special weapons.

How about making it 11 to fend off the shots of all those countless ork shootas ? How about give it the side armor to fend off even the shots of the equally numerous nid small arms ? Both of which are also enemies of mankind and as numerous as say traitor guard. Why even bring up background as far as it relates to why they gave the vehicle the AV they did ? That is like asking why give hot shot las weapons ap 3, when guard face those so much more numerous guard forces. Needing ap 3 is needless at that point over rate of fire and less extreme ap.

GW do what they do, and reason is not a factor in their plan.

Ssilmath
02-04-2014, 05:12
Well, considering that the side armor can take considerable punishment from those Shootas before succumbing, I'd say it's fine. The point was, it's not some random group of mooks easily tearing a Taurox to pieces, it's elite soldiers or enemies for whom the idea of small arms is beyond what a human can shoot.

As far as in game goes, if the Taurox gets it's troops where they need to go, great. From there, it can provide fire support as needed. Now I realize that some meta's have more anti tank guns than others, and in those places I can see a Taurox not being too hot. But I seriously doubt that you're going to have to worry too much about Marines with Bolters sanding your armor off without you yourself having made some mistakes.

Mike3791
02-04-2014, 13:48
autocannons, scatterlasers, wave serpent energy wave thingy, multilasers, missile pods, Tesla cannons, vector strikes, Lootas, etc are probably fairly common in most play groups.

And none of those things can kill Chimeras just as easily? I still think the better weapons and BS will make the Taurox a viable choice, plus we don't know if Chimeras will see a points increase at this point either.

theJ
02-04-2014, 14:03
Does the Taurox really have an increased BS though? The Prime, sure, but that thing's piloted by stormtroopers. The garden variety of Taurox is driven by guardsman Joe Average, and should by all rights have the same BS as every other guard vehicle.

As for weapons, they're actually worse on the Taurox. twinlinked autocannon does not beat double autocannon.
The Prime is, again, a different matter, however that thing's 100+ pts, so we probably shouldn't even compare the two.

A.T.
02-04-2014, 14:05
Does the Taurox really have an increased BS though?Regular is BS3, prime is BS4

Vaktathi
02-04-2014, 15:13
And none of those things can kill Chimeras just as easily? I still think the better weapons and BS will make the Taurox a viable choice, plus we don't know if Chimeras will see a points increase at this point either. Given the Chimera's frontal AV12 vs the Taurox's AV11, even if the Chimera isn't the hardiest thing in the universe, the Taurox is drastically less so against such weapons.

Haravikk
02-04-2014, 15:42
IMO there was plenty of room for GW to squeeze the Taurox in as a good way to quickly deliver a glass-cannon squad while giving it a little backup or cover, but instead they've gone overboard. I'd have been happy with a Fast, good armour half-track with smoke launchers, re-roll terrain and room for say… six models, with a twin heavy-stubber/autocannon turret as an option. Instead it's got battle cannons, hot-shot volley guns and a huge great missile launcher, I mean why? It's not as if Imperial Guard were ever short on affordable firepower on their battle and support tanks…

Chem-Dog
02-04-2014, 16:22
Which squad of nearby mooks?

The rank and file troopers without any specialist anti vehicle equipment, the ones that feature in every army in abundance, usually in the troops section of the FOC.


How about against the kind of troops that the Taurox will face the majority of the time in the background? Traitor Guardsmen and cultists can't hurt the thing without dedicated heavy or special weapons.

Everything we've seen about the Militarum Tempestus and the Stormtroopers before has suggested they are not primarily employed in this way. They take on the missions that would be suicidal for the Imperial Guard to try, that's not Cultists or Traitor Guard, that's Traitor Astartes (Brigades of Storm Troopers were deployed in the final assault on the Palace of Thorns at the climax of the Babdad war) and other really nasty stuff. Even if they were employed in this way in the background, it's far from the experience on the table.

Ssilmath
02-04-2014, 16:59
The rank and file troopers without any specialist anti vehicle equipment, the ones that feature in every army in abundance, usually in the troops section of the FOC.

Those are not a threat to side armor 10, unless you consider the improbably low chance of a squad with Str 4 glancing it to death in a single turn to be a threat.


Everything we've seen about the Militarum Tempestus and the Stormtroopers before has suggested they are not primarily employed in this way. They take on the missions that would be suicidal for the Imperial Guard to try, that's not Cultists or Traitor Guard, that's Traitor Astartes (Brigades of Storm Troopers were deployed in the final assault on the Palace of Thorns at the climax of the Babdad war) and other really nasty stuff. Even if they were employed in this way in the background, it's far from the experience on the table.

Not so, the only piece of artwork I've personally seen showing them fighting is against Gaunts. Not saying they don't also fight against traitor Astartes, though. Either way, the Taurox is going to get them where they need to go and then provide backup firepower once in place. It's a battle taxi, not a main battle tank. Use appropriately.

Vaktathi
02-04-2014, 18:02
. Either way, the Taurox is going to get them where they need to go and then provide backup firepower once in place. It's a battle taxi, not a main battle tank. Use appropriately.That's the whole issue, another, more heavily armored option exists for roughly the same price (unless they majorly changed something) that'll be more reliable in getting them there, and have more firepower.

AngryAngel
02-04-2014, 20:44
Which is exactly the point. If it was a more armed or heavily armored choice, people could more easily embrace it. However, as is it is just an eh addition. Just another of what we already have in a transport that serves no point. Now that is assuming the chimera stays the same. The Prime may have had a place as a fast vehicle, but it being restricted just to scion squads handles that being a concern. The Taurox itself feels a lot like a poor mans chimera.

As well glancing side armor 10 with bolters or the like isn't really all too hard and one squad of rapid firing marines don't need to do all the work just to down it. AV 11 would have made a worlds difference on something that can cost quite a lot of points. However until we see the whole vehicle options and all this is all a bit needless, perhaps the devil is in the details.

corps
02-04-2014, 22:47
Everything we've seen about the Militarum Tempestus and the Stormtroopers before has suggested they are not primarily employed in this way. They take on the missions that would be suicidal for the Imperial Guard to try, that's not Cultists or Traitor Guard, that's Traitor Astartes (Brigades of Storm Troopers were deployed in the final assault on the Palace of Thorns at the climax of the Babdad war) and other really nasty stuff. Even if they were employed in this way in the background, it's far from the experience on the table.

I agree. all the guard player i saw play vets and not them. Why ? because it s troop choice( that may change) they have 3 special weapon and one heavy weapon. So they are more useful on a table than the stormtrooper...

Another question: the gatling is it worth it?

Chem-Dog
03-04-2014, 17:34
Those are not a threat to side armor 10, unless you consider the improbably low chance of a squad with Str 4 glancing it to death in a single turn to be a threat.

As a Veteran of the Mechanised Infantry for 14 years, I can tell you that "improbably" happens incredibly frequently.


Not so

The only fluff description I've encountered of Storm Troopers operating in force was the background regarding the assault on the Palace of Thorns at the culmination of the Badab war, where brigades were deployed alongside Loyalist Astartes forces. Now, I'm aware that one instance doesn't make a trend, but when coupled with GW description - " amongst the finest human warriors in the galaxy. They are fanatically dedicated to the act of following their orders - even if it may result in their own deaths - and often complete missions so dangerous that they would be deemed suicidal for a regular guardsman."
it seems pretty obvious they're a finite resource that isn't going to be deployed against mobs of cultists unless their prophet is there with them, once he's been whacked the regular Guard can mop up.
I don't think the Scion combat knife resembles a Misericorde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misericorde_(weapon)) by accident, either symbolically or functionally.


Now that is assuming the chimera stays the same.


AV 12/11/10 plzplzplz :D


I agree. all the guard player i saw play vets and not them. Why ? because it s troop choice( that may change) they have 3 special weapon and one heavy weapon. So they are more useful on a table than the stormtrooper.

Also because the Storm Troopers were considered too expensive for what they can be expected to achieve in a game. Those problems diminish somewhat when there's an entire army of them.


Another question: the gatling is it worth it?

I rate it for engaging hordes (which the Scions' limited numbers might struggle with), should be a great force multiplier if used to augment the Scions' own damage output.

Khornies & milk
03-04-2014, 19:39
I wouldn't buy a Taurox for any price...too damn pig ugly for my mind. Plus I have 12 Chimeras anyway so have no need whatsoever to get more transports. Mind you Dreamforge are in the process of making a 'wheeled' APC that looks really good, and I'd readily drop some dosh for 3....or however many I'd need to field an Allied Detachment to my massive Armoured Battlegroup force for Apoc games (only).

Of the 52 people in my group the only Taurox models been considered buying are for the Ork collectors...to loot the hell out of them.

draccan
06-04-2014, 10:36
So the chimera is now more expensive. (65 pts)
what a d*** move by GW to sell more Taurox'es.

Sanai
06-04-2014, 10:41
People were complaining before that guard lists had way too many cheap chimeras. Some tourney players I knew saw cheap Chimeras as the biggest advantage that guard had.

As to the Taurox having weak armour- modern militaries have been known to drive open topped humvees through hostile cities- vehicles that ak 47s can (And did) penetrate. Losses were generally considered acceptable.

lordbeefy
06-04-2014, 14:37
People were complaining before that guard lists had way too many cheap chimeras. Some tourney players I knew saw cheap Chimeras as the biggest advantage that guard had.

As to the Taurox having weak armour- modern militaries have been known to drive open topped humvees through hostile cities- vehicles that ak 47s can (And did) penetrate. Losses were generally considered acceptable.

Spoken in the words of someone who never had to sit in soft skinned vehicles in a warzone (ala Landrover defenders!) LOL.

But seriously, the chimera has had its points hiked up purely to make people buy the taurox...its so obvious as to defy any denial. That said i will trim my list somewhere rather than be forced to invest in such an awful model. That said, there are so many power gamers out there that they will flood the gaming tbles with these awful models because they are the current flavour of the overpowered gamers.

The chimera now fits in the bracket of medium transport/IFV....the taurox is the lightest option and the likes of the superheavies options are the highest (for Guard of course). Personally I wish they had made the taurox, not just the taurox prime a fast vehicle, as this would have gone some way to compensate for their eye meltingly hideous appearances, however by limiting it to Scions only they have again forced the issue of people having to buy more of the range.

Dont get me wrong, i dont want to appear a whiner, i just have an opinion and will readily express it.

Nothing will change my chimeras, they are the most solid and dependable transport out there in my opinion, the taurox will fold too quickly to any firepower in any facing...that is the most simple way of explaining why they wont replace the chimera. It would only replace the chimera if it could do a transports job better...ie getting its contents where they need to be. The taurox doesnt have the armour or the speed to do either and will die long before they have got their contents to objectives....for guardsmen the thought of foot slogging in the face of firepower means they will never get to their objective on foot. I look forward to fighting the taurox, these armies will die so fast!

jason_sation
06-04-2014, 15:31
I haven't seen it mentioned. Any reason on the Taurox to put the weapons on the side (with a limited firing arc) over the turret mounted version (which has a 360 degree arc)? I haven't heard mention of a point difference or a change in the vehicle's profile (i.e. open topped etc.).

Grand Master Raziel
06-04-2014, 16:21
Regarding the model itself:

The turret isn't bad looking at all. The hull is a little busy, but if some of the bling on it are optional bitz you don't have to use, it could be toned down. Also could be toned down by using plasticard in place of the louvered hood.

Where the model really fails is the super-high profile and the ridiculous little track units. I think it'd look enormously better as a 6-wheeled vehicle, 2 up front, 4 in back.

Voss
06-04-2014, 20:16
I haven't seen it mentioned. Any reason on the Taurox to put the weapons on the side (with a limited firing arc) over the turret mounted version (which has a 360 degree arc)? I haven't heard mention of a point difference or a change in the vehicle's profile (i.e. open topped etc.).

No, no difference. The main reason for the 'side mounting'* seems to be for the Prime versions where other guns get stuck in the turret slot, and the volley gun (upgradable to an AC) is built-in by default, and has to go... somewhere. On the 'normal' taurox, there is only the AC, which... not going in the turret is suboptimal as well as confusing from a rules perspective (since the rules don't do anything but hand wave weapons mounted in that fashion. You probably have a 45 degree arc from both sides of the hull, but can't hit anything standing directly in front of the grill. And its also twin linked even when shooting something that is only in the arc of one gun because 'rules', thats why.).

*such as it is. The side mounting really just seems to be 'stick the guns on the side of the hull.' You kind of have to hope that the exhaust pipes don't push them out of a flush position with the hull, as happens with the left one in the top down shot on the GW site.

Vaktathi
06-04-2014, 20:25
It's really unfortunate what happened to the Chimera, though I guess it does give a reason to use the Taurox. I'll think I'll be sticking with my IA12 Assault Brigade for a few years.

Nubl0
06-04-2014, 20:37
guys its not like the chimera is unusable, lets all calm down. This is only really a problem if you are min-maxing.

theJ
06-04-2014, 21:56
It's really unfortunate what happened to the Chimera, though I guess it does give a reason to use the Taurox. I'll think I'll be sticking with my IA12 Assault Brigade for a few years.

Eh, 55pts for two heavy weapons on an AV12 platform that didn't take up any slot was kind of ridiculous.

Keep in mind that Guard aren't really big on the whole "movement" thing - they prefer just mowing down the whole dang table with vastly superior firepower. The reason why the Chimaera is so popular is that it can do just that - shoot stuff without preventing its embarked unit from doing the same.
A single twinlinked autocannon and limited fire points will NOT allow the Taurox to do the same. Hence it can not compete with the Chimaera.

Not saying it won't have its uses, just that it'll never "take over" the role of the Chimaera.

Vaktathi
06-04-2014, 21:59
guys its not like the chimera is unusable, lets all calm down. This is only really a problem if you are min-maxing.Nothing is technically unusable, but it went from "pretty bad" in 3rd and 4th editions to "amazing" at the start of 5th and "very good" by the end to "ok" at the start of 6th and now to "oh it's starting to look like 4th edition again".

It already wasn't exactly stellar in 6th, hiking the price and removing useful wargear wasn't necessary. What most people don't understand is that for other armies, where they may only have 2-4, maybe 5 of such a unit, an IG army will have a lot more. Relative to my last mechanized list I ran, if I wanted to keep the smoke and lights, the price of the army goes up 176pts, 165 with just smoke and 110pts for naked transports.

Actually come to think of it, my last mech IG tournament list (it's been over a year since I've run it) is will now be nearly 350pts more expensive to keep everything as it was. 11 chimeras, 2 CCS's, 3 vendettas, 3 hydras, 6 infantry squads, 3 PCS's, the chimeras go up 10pts each plus smoke+searchlights, the vendettas go up 40 each (though something of that nature was to be expected), and the Hydras are now open topped (assuming no price changes, this means +15ppm for enclosed compartments). What was a 2000pt army would now be a 2341pt list (assuming no changes in cost on hydras or command squads).


Eh, 55pts for two heavy weapons on an AV12 platform that didn't take up any slot was kind of ridiculous. Not really, two mid strength BS3 weapons, only one turret mounted, on an AV12/10/10 platform? At the dawn of 5th edition perhaps, but they weren't so much by the end of 5th and certainly not since 6th edition dropped. One will notice the Imperial Guard didn't even make top 16 at this years Adepticon even as allies.

itcamefromthedeep
06-04-2014, 23:22
Actually come to think of it, my last mech IG tournament list (it's been over a year since I've run it) is will now be nearly 350pts more expensive to keep everything as it was. 11 chimeras, 2 CCS's, 3 vendettas, 3 hydras, 6 infantry squads, 3 PCS's, the chimeras go up 10pts each plus smoke+searchlights, the vendettas go up 40 each (though something of that nature was to be expected), and the Hydras are now open topped (assuming no price changes, this means +15ppm for enclosed compartments). What was a 2000pt army would now be a 2341pt list (assuming no changes in cost on hydras or command squads).I have trouble shedding tears for your car park, though not for love of the things that replaced it.

Vaktathi
07-04-2014, 00:05
I have trouble shedding tears for your car park, though not for love of the things that replaced it.

As I said, it was a tournament list I haven't run in over a year that in 5E was *very* powerful, but at the same time, it's not like it currently would be something most people would find particularly galling to face currently or really in any major need of a nerf at this point in 6E (especially not 350pts worth of nerf at this point :p), certainly not next to all the Tau+SM+INQ allies lists with formations and whatnot floating around.

Nubl0
07-04-2014, 00:48
What I dont get is... well did it actually get worse? has its capabilities been weakened? Or did it just get a price bump?

Coldblood666
07-04-2014, 01:08
It's a surprisingly ugly model

ehlijen
07-04-2014, 01:11
The strength of the chimera wasn't the speed. It was the fact that you could have all the firepower of an infantry squad hidden in a cheap bunker with extra guns that also took up less space behind an aegis line.

Few transports offered that, let alone for that cheap. It was not a good thing for the health of the overall game, drastically pushing the 'only upgrade weapons matter' mentality that basically screws armies that don't get upgrade weapons (unless they get over the top boosts to compensate).

Chem-Dog
07-04-2014, 01:14
Re the Chimera, where are the points costs coming from? If it's from C:MT, could it be that those ones are Bs4?

Theocracity
07-04-2014, 01:19
Re the Chimera, where are the points costs coming from? If it's from C:MT, could it be that those ones are Bs4?

It's from the iBook preview.

Voss
07-04-2014, 02:57
It's really unfortunate what happened to the Chimera, though I guess it does give a reason to use the Taurox. I'll think I'll be sticking with my IA12 Assault Brigade for a few years.
I've seen a couple people make vague statements to this effect (or that the chimera got nerfed to force people to buy tauroxen). But I'm not seeing it. The basic taurox... isn't good. It looks barely viable. (Really, autocannons aren't exactly rare the guard codex, you can field them by the boatload, in the vast majority of FOC slots)
It isn't even widely available within the codex, as far as I can tell. And the Prime is even less available and costs a ridiculous amount of points for what it brings.

So... what is the reason to use a Taurox?

Crazy Ivan
07-04-2014, 09:44
You probably have a 45 degree arc from both sides of the hull, but can't hit anything standing directly in front of the grill.
I don't disagree that there is a lot wrong with the look of the side-mounts, but this doesn't seem to be one of them to me. You couldn't hit someone standing directly in front of the grille with the turret mounts either. Seems that best way to guarantee not getting hit by a tank's guns is to stand as close to the thing as possible (though not directly in front of any of the guns themselves, mind).

Of course, if these things were real, any enemies who'd be stupid enough to stand directly in front of a taurox and go "nyer nyer you can't hit me" would quickly become a greasy smear on the ground as the Taurox's driver would simply run them over.

Lanacane
07-04-2014, 11:31
You couldn't hit someone standing directly in front of the grille with the turret mounts either.

so 360 LoS and a "if you can see it, shoot it" mentality of 6th and you claim you cant see something and inch from the grille?

I sense someone is giving you jyp

Crazy Ivan
07-04-2014, 11:41
so 360 LoS and a "if you can see it, shoot it" mentality of 6th and you claim you cant see something and inch from the grille?

I sense someone is giving you jyp

jyp? :confused:

Anyway, if we're talking about rules it's a different matter. But going by the model (any tank model) and talking even remotely realistically, you can't hit someone standing an inch in front of the grille. You can see him all you want, doesn't mean you can depress the barrel of your gun so much you can shoot almost straight down.

Valkyrie Sky
07-04-2014, 11:43
I love it when people talk in absolutes, but are absolutely wrong. The Viking BVS10 (http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/23247.aspx) is an articulated vehicle, meaning it's one vehicle which bends in the middle, not a vehicle and trailer, which runs on 4 tracks.
Sweet irony :p

duffybear1988
07-04-2014, 12:46
I've seen a couple people make vague statements to this effect (or that the chimera got nerfed to force people to buy tauroxen). But I'm not seeing it. The basic taurox... isn't good. It looks barely viable. (Really, autocannons aren't exactly rare the guard codex, you can field them by the boatload, in the vast majority of FOC slots)
It isn't even widely available within the codex, as far as I can tell. And the Prime is even less available and costs a ridiculous amount of points for what it brings.

So... what is the reason to use a Taurox?

This.

The chimera is still a perfectly viable option even if it did go up a bit (and it did need to).

totgeboren
07-04-2014, 12:56
Man, just now got a good look at the new Taurox. It looks really bad, especially the placement of the hull-mounted autocannons. So you can't open the doors to disembark while the rapid-firing cannons lay down suppressing fire? Either you disembark, or you shoot at the enemy. Sounds really useful...

I will definitely not buy a single one. On the other hand I have had to convert all my other GW IG tanks to have suspension, since I just don't like the design of 'only-being-able-to-travel-on-absolutely-flat-ground'. Finally I gave up and bought kits from other suppliers and converted them instead. Giving money for products you don't even want makes little sense.

Chem-Dog
07-04-2014, 16:38
Seems that best way to guarantee not getting hit by a tank's guns is to stand as close to the thing as possible

Coincidentally, that's also the place you should seek to be standing if you wish to successfully deploy a meltabomb ;)


Man, just now got a good look at the new Taurox. It looks really bad, especially the placement of the hull-mounted autocannons. So you can't open the doors to disembark while the rapid-firing cannons lay down suppressing fire? Either you disembark, or you shoot at the enemy.

Or, you know, just disembark through the rear hatch.....

totgeboren
08-04-2014, 09:32
Or, you know, just disembark through the rear hatch.....

I suppose, but to me it looks bad. Also, with the placement of the autocannons at the back, any passengers would have to sit on top of the ammo for said guns. It's so many things wrong with the design that I can't bring myself to like it.
However, with wheels and no guns at the back, it looks pretty cool. :)

chromedog
09-04-2014, 10:02
The taurox serves ONE purpose - and it does it well.
It serves to point out how much better looking the chimera is. The Taurox is like the pretty girl's 'interesting' friend.

Last time I saw a vehicle that ugly, it was on GI Joe.

Inquisitor Shego
09-04-2014, 12:36
Being an old Daemonhunters player with lots of storm troopers, I was sooo looking forward to Militarum Tempestus (aka Codex Stormtroopers). As expected, it's a bland nutrient paste that stops my army from starving to death without whetting too many taste buds. One thing however that has pissed me off is the inability to legally take chimeras. You are saddled with this ugly Empire Steam Tank with baroque ornate trimming and heraldry. I like how it's fast but the model is so grotesque I cannot bare to field it, so I'm instead taking Chimeras.

The new codex is stunning and beautiful and fluffy, but this tonka truck (ages 4+) makes me cringe quite heavily. Is THIS the elite of the Guard? Give me the Elysian fast moving forge world stuff with wheels any day.

duffybear1988
09-04-2014, 13:04
Is THIS the elite of the Guard?

Shego you are forgetting that they are completely distanced from the Guard now. They're just another human 'elite' army that sometimes turn up to fight.

In fact they're so elite that they lost their special operations rules... It's GW doing their usual job of wrecking the established fluff and delivering another hamfisted attempt at creating that elusive welled fluffed codex. As far as I'm concerned Storm Troopers are the elite crack troops of the Imperial Guard, who may have been raised and trained at the Schola Progenium, but are essentially attached to the Guard. They come in squads, not platoons, as I find the idea of entire armies of Scions ridiculous. Here's hoping they can get Chimeras in the Imperial Guard codex.

Inquisitor Shego
09-04-2014, 13:08
Shego you are forgetting that they are completely distanced from the Guard now. They're just another human 'elite' army that sometimes turn up to fight.

In fact they're so elite that they lost their special operations rules... It's GW doing their usual job of wrecking the established fluff and delivering another hamfisted attempt at creating that elusive good codex. As far as I'm concerned Storm Troopers are the elite crack troops of the Imperial Guard, who may have been raised and trained at the Schola Progenium, but are essentially attached to the Guard. They come in squads not platoons, as I find the idea of entire armies of Scions ridiculous. Here's hoping they can get Chimeras in the Imperial Guard codex.

I know, Duffy, I'm just..... :-/

This is why I'm giving them Chimeras regardless. My army looks like this

1 x Inquisitor
1 x Assassin
2 x Vendetta (I originally costed them at 180 points, so 10 points cheaper is a bonus)
6 x Storm Trooper squads
originally 2 infiltrated, and 4 had chimeras, but now I'm not so sure as Infiltrate vanished

I've learned the hard way you can't wait for GW to do things for you. They're too slow and usually too inept, so best to just make it yourself. I don't think chimeras + 2 x Vendetta is broken, but we'll see. I can't see myself lasting long against my opponents with their Tau, Long Fang Wolves, etc etc.

duffybear1988
09-04-2014, 13:22
I know, Duffy, I'm just..... :-/

This is why I'm giving them Chimeras regardless. My army looks like this

1 x Inquisitor
1 x Assassin
2 x Vendetta (I originally costed them at 180 points, so 10 points cheaper is a bonus)
6 x Storm Trooper squads
originally 2 infiltrated, and 4 had chimeras, but now I'm not so sure as Infiltrate vanished

I've learned the hard way you can't wait for GW to do things for you. They're too slow and usually too inept, so best to just make it yourself. I don't think chimeras + 2 x Vendetta is broken, but we'll see. I can't see myself lasting long against my opponents with their Tau, Long Fang Wolves, etc etc.

How are you getting that assassin into the list? Don't you need a troops choice from the Grey Knights codex? For some reason assassins were left out of the Inquisition supp. I'm guessing so they can then charge us another 10 for the rules later. I'm quite shocked they aren't churning out more ebooks as there are heaps of extras I can think of that would rake in the cash for GW...

As for the glory boys losing their special operations, I think it was a silly move. Having a gun with less range than a water pistol means you have to get pretty close to use them and in the Scions codex that pretty much means flyers or Tonka Trucks. I see a lot of people raving about Storm Troopers getting much better because they are cheaper and have access to orders, but I honestly don't think it's fixed them - if anything I say they got worse. Now when you see a list with Storm Troopers you know exactly what they are going to do - load up in a transport and drive towards something in power armour. It means that the other player knows exactly what you are doing and can counter it easily. Before he was left guessing - were you infiltrating them? Deep striking? Outflanking? Now all any half competent player has to do is shoot up a couple of trucks (assuming you take a command squad as well) and your plan has fallen to bits. Anything larger than a minimum unit with 2 special weapons is still a points sink.

The Taurox is too fragile to be worth it.

Inquisitor Shego
09-04-2014, 13:50
How are you getting that assassin into the list? Don't you need a troops choice from the Grey Knights codex? For some reason assassins were left out of the Inquisition supp. I'm guessing so they can then charge us another 10 for the rules later. I'm quite shocked they aren't churning out more ebooks as there are heaps of extras I can think of that would rake in the cash for GW.

As I said, I'm doing my own thing. Assassins are issued by Inquisitorial authorisation, so it makes sense to have one. Is it codex legal? Nah. Are GW codices any good these days? 50% of the time, no. So I'm making my own thing. Just like if I did CSM there would be no forced challenges or mutation table. I'm not paying through the nose for plastic toys only for GW to throw crap rules at me. If people don't like it, fair enough, I play them with something else, or we just don't game, but I'm done having the dev team hold my hand and tell me what to play (for obscene prices like 30 for a mini dex). As for your assessment of the Tonka trucks, I agree. I play Sisters of Battle, burdened with slow speed and short range. I already know the pain of pelting in armour 11 vehicles at the enemy. Storm Troopers got much much worse.

Vaktathi
09-04-2014, 16:12
Being an old Daemonhunters player with lots of storm troopers, I was sooo looking forward to Militarum Tempestus (aka Codex Stormtroopers). As expected, it's a bland nutrient paste that stops my army from starving to death without whetting too many taste buds. One thing however that has pissed me off is the inability to legally take chimeras. You are saddled with this ugly Empire Steam Tank with baroque ornate trimming and heraldry. I like how it's fast but the model is so grotesque I cannot bare to field it, so I'm instead taking Chimeras.

The new codex is stunning and beautiful and fluffy, but this tonka truck (ages 4+) makes me cringe quite heavily. Is THIS the elite of the Guard? Give me the Elysian fast moving forge world stuff with wheels any day.Indeed, the Tempestus book has been a gigantic letdown, it's literally just a "buy these new models" push, the only pre-existing model in it I believe is the Valkyrie. I would have loved solid Stormtrooper company book, but this one is just...lame. I'm really glad I didn't pre-order it. :p

Formerly Wu
09-04-2014, 17:27
As I said, I'm doing my own thing. Assassins are issued by Inquisitorial authorisation, so it makes sense to have one. Is it codex legal? Nah. Are GW codices any good these days? 50% of the time, no. So I'm making my own thing.
I feel this is increasingly the way to deal sanely with this hobby. Talk to your gaming group, fix what needs fixing, and don't worry about tying yourself to what people you'll never meet think or do.

Personally, I think the Taurox looks fine in concept, but its available configurations look goofy. So if/when I end up with one, it'll either be a stripped-down truck with just a heavy stubber for ~40 points, or I'll just replace the autocannons with the battle cannon. As long as it makes sense and doesn't affect the game too much, it'll be fine.

Iron_Lord
09-04-2014, 19:29
Regarding the Taurox Prime and the problematic lack of arc on the hull-mounted autocannons - would Missile Launcher + Autocannon Turret be a better combo?

Ghazbad_Facestompa
09-04-2014, 20:34
As I said, I'm doing my own thing. Assassins are issued by Inquisitorial authorisation, so it makes sense to have one. Is it codex legal? Nah. Are GW codices any good these days? 50% of the time, no. So I'm making my own thing. Just like if I did CSM there would be no forced challenges or mutation table. I'm not paying through the nose for plastic toys only for GW to throw crap rules at me. If people don't like it, fair enough, I play them with something else, or we just don't game, but I'm done having the dev team hold my hand and tell me what to play (for obscene prices like 30 for a mini dex). As for your assessment of the Tonka trucks, I agree. I play Sisters of Battle, burdened with slow speed and short range. I already know the pain of pelting in armour 11 vehicles at the enemy. Storm Troopers got much much worse.
This definitely seems the best approach. I'm suddenly glad that the GW-official stores in my normal area are closing down, that's much more likely to work in an independent shop.

AndrewGPaul
09-04-2014, 20:45
It'll need a bit of conversion work, but the Taurox turrets would be a good base for a Chimerax or Chimedon conversion.

Proiteus
12-04-2014, 23:22
I'd like to boot this thread back into action with the release of the codex today to compare the new standard Taurox to the chimera's updated rules...

Chimera
10pts more expensive.
Only 2 Models can fire from the top hatch instead of 5 now.
Still Transports 12 models.
Up to 6 passengers can fire the lasgun arrays (3 on each side) both of which can fire at different targets to the chimeras main weaponry and can fire regardless of how far it's moved, but still suffers stunned and shaken results. However they must use the chimera's BS of 3!

Taurox
50 Pts
1 less armour value on the front than the chimera.
Armed with Twin Linked Autocannon.
2 Fire points on each side.
Can reroll dangerous terrain.
3 Access Points
Just to note it's not a fast vehicle (only the Taurox Prime is fast and has the extra weapon options)

Looking at these I'm thinking the Taurox maybe better suited to veteran squads (which make up my army's troops) as the chimera seems better suited for infantry squads. Your thoughts?

Hawkkf
13-04-2014, 05:19
Does the lasgun array count as the vehicle firing, the occupants firing, or neither? If it is part of the vehicle firing then the part about the gunners is just to dictate when you can fire it. If it is part of the squad firing then they would still have to fire at the same target as the squad. It refers to the squad shooting it but only that it can fire at seperate targets form the vehicle not from the squad. I am understanding it as the vehicle firing, but i don't know how others are reading the wording.


One thing you forgot is that tauroxen have to pay for searchlights and smoke launchers. Many people would think smoke is more important on it due to the lower front armor. In the end its really just a cheaper transport with less weapons. I am still a fan of the chimera as my mechanized infantry almost always benefit from the extra heavy flamer helping soften the enemy at close range. I would dare say that I have gotten more use out of the hull flamers than the multilasers in the past.

Cadian144
13-04-2014, 05:32
My first thoughts when I saw the pictures were " How could I fix this to make it look good ? " So...not a good beginning as to my wanting any I suppose? I keep thinking if the tracks at the front can be replaced with a wheel of the same size, making more half track like, then.......maybe...? But overall I think it could have been much , much better IMO

But for the most part, my thoughts on buying 1-2 is for conversion parts. I doubt it will be fielded in my armys, but never say never.:rolleyes:

I have not found a picture yet online showing a Taurox beside a Chimera, how is it size wise ? I dont have the new codex so not sure if there is photos of the 2 together in that or not.

Iron_Lord
13-04-2014, 20:29
Here's hoping they can get Chimeras in the Imperial Guard codex.

They have access to both, in the main book.

Ironbone
14-04-2014, 21:06
Indeed. All squads to taurox/chimera, sicons to taurox prime as well.


They come in squads, not platoons, as I find the idea of entire armies of Scions ridiculous
I actually kinda like that. It fits imperial "manpower is only power we need" ideology, and kinda nicely represents that even guard elite are still so damm human that they have to outnumber enemy to equlize fighting chances. Stormtroopers are formed into regiments just like guard, they just usualy fight as smaller units attached to larger guard divisions as support, specialist units.

Thomson
14-04-2014, 23:39
My first thoughts when I saw the pictures were " How could I fix this to make it look good ? " So...not a good beginning as to my wanting any I suppose? I keep thinking if the tracks at the front can be replaced with a wheel of the same size, making more half track like, then.......maybe...? But overall I think it could have been much , much better IMO

But for the most part, my thoughts on buying 1-2 is for conversion parts. I doubt it will be fielded in my armys, but never say never.:rolleyes:

I have not found a picture yet online showing a Taurox beside a Chimera, how is it size wise ? I dont have the new codex so not sure if there is photos of the 2 together in that or not.

Currently thinking about getting one and replacing the front tracks with the wheels of a bike.