PDA

View Full Version : should ungorraiders carry slings?



twinsword
26-03-2014, 10:20
i think that ungor raiders should carry slings insted of the short bow.
why? well i think that they could really use the bost. as they are now theire a very meh skirmisher unit that cant do really do any thing special, they can do the standard march block and a bit of crew hunting, but other then that well almost every army has a better army for it. + i think that being primitiv a more primitive weapon should be applied. well thats my half assed opion. or the should all get melta guns and tankhunter special rule.....

Karak Norn Clansman
26-03-2014, 10:22
They should rather have the option to take slings instead of short bows.

Scammel
26-03-2014, 10:57
It might be slightly nicer fit thematically, but I think they're actually pretty good at fulfilling the cheap skirmisher role. Furthermore, the plastic kit is already quite lovely and I think there's some much bigger issues to be sorted out with the Beasts.

Colonel Mayhem
26-03-2014, 11:24
Isn't slings much harder to become skilled with than bows or am I imagining things? because then you could make the case they use what is easiest due to lack of dexterity and experience - I have a feeling they don't live long enough to learn much/pass knowledge on.

twinsword
26-03-2014, 11:36
well they only have BS 3 so they arent that good and the bow is not really an easy weapon to master

Scammel
26-03-2014, 11:47
BS3 isn't stellar (especially on a unit that's typically moving around a lot) but it's fine for plinking the occasional model off chaff units. I think you might be expecting a little too much of them.

StygianBeach
26-03-2014, 13:20
I would rather they had the option to take a second hand weapon.

Leogun_91
26-03-2014, 13:42
I agree that slings is a better and more fitting choice for them. It should be available as a choice IMO.

Karak Norn Clansman
26-03-2014, 13:56
Isn't slings much harder to become skilled with than bows or am I imagining things? because then you could make the case they use what is easiest due to lack of dexterity and experience - I have a feeling they don't live long enough to learn much/pass knowledge on.

Yes, slings are much harder to master than bows. Ancient elite slingers from the Balearic islands and Rhodes were said to be brought up in this way: If they couldn't catch their own food, they would not eat.

Still, Warhammer needs more slings, and Ungors should have them. Ungors could also do with BS2. :D

dementian
26-03-2014, 14:43
18" Str 3 Multiple shots (2)

So 5 Ungor Raiders with their BS 3...

Ignore cover issues the worst you can do with shortbows is move and long range so you would be hitting on 6s, Slings give equal hit probability. When hitting on 6s with slings and 5s with shortbows...same hit probability...
Slings outside 9" and moved. 10 shots (-1 for move, -1 for long range -1 for multiple shots) hitting on 7s. 10*1/6*4/6 = .83 hits
Shortbow outside 9" and moved. 5 shots (-1 for move, -1 for long range) hitting on 6s. 5*1/6 = .83 hits

The only time Slings are better is when:
Slings inside 9" no movement (-1 for multiple shots) hitting on 5s. 10*2/6 = 3.33
Shortbow inside 9" no movement hitting on 4s. 5*1/2=2.5

Why do you need slings?

twinsword
26-03-2014, 15:51
18" Str 3 Multiple shots (2)

So 5 Ungor Raiders with their BS 3...

Ignore cover issues the worst you can do with shortbows is move and long range so you would be hitting on 6s, Slings give equal hit probability. When hitting on 6s with slings and 5s with shortbows...same hit probability...
Slings outside 9" and moved. 10 shots (-1 for move, -1 for long range -1 for multiple shots) hitting on 7s. 10*1/6*4/6 = .83 hits
Shortbow outside 9" and moved. 5 shots (-1 for move, -1 for long range) hitting on 6s. 5*1/6 = .83 hits

The only time Slings are better is when:
Slings inside 9" no movement (-1 for multiple shots) hitting on 5s. 10*2/6 = 3.33
Shortbow inside 9" no movement hitting on 4s. 5*1/2=2.5

Why do you need slings?

thats more then i knew...you get -1 for multishots? screw it give theam throwing axes as well, now that would be intresting

twinsword
26-03-2014, 15:55
Yes, slings are much harder to master than bows. Ancient elite slingers from the Balearic islands and Rhodes were said to be brought up in this way: If they couldn't catch their own food, they would not eat.

Still, Warhammer needs more slings, and Ungors should have them. Ungors could also do with BS2. :D

the last thing beastmen needs is having thiere units get worse

dementian
26-03-2014, 16:00
thats more then i knew...you get -1 for multishots? screw it give theam throwing axes as well, now that would be intresting

Quick to fire at Str + 1...This I can agree with!

twinsword
26-03-2014, 17:07
Quick to fire at Str + 1...This I can agree with!

just to clarify they would have both throwing axes and short bows

Charistoph
26-03-2014, 21:40
I'd rather see the Gors with Throwing Axes. The Ungors already have the Bow, and really don't need much else., but slings would be cool. Javelins could work for anything that can get a spear, though.

badguyshaveallthefun
27-03-2014, 00:34
I think javelins would be cool. But I think they're already a stellar unit "even" with shortbows.

The way I play them though, they're there to die. Any wounds that they do from shooting is just icing on the cake.

twinsword
27-03-2014, 02:15
I'd rather see the Goes with Throwing Axes. The Ungors already have the Bow, and really don't need much else., but slings would be cool. Javelins could work for anything that can get a spear, though.

that would be cool s 4 hits on 4+ make theam a hord of 40 10x4 and you get 20 shots off on an enemy you migth not wanna charge.
do axes count as extra hand weapons? i know pistols do so why no throwing axes?

Ratbeast
27-03-2014, 09:34
that would be cool s 4 hits on 4+ make theam a hord of 40 10x4 and you get 20 shots off on an enemy you migth not wanna charge.
do axes count as extra hand weapons? i know pistols do so why no throwing axes?

Cause you throw your axe away!!!!!!!! you don't throw a pistol away

Dark Aly
27-03-2014, 10:06
Also flint lock and match lock pistols were designed to have a heavy weighted stock which could be used to club people because they took so long to reload and were quite inaccurate. Throwing weapons (knives, axes, javelins) are poorly balanced for close quarters and you'd usually be better of with bare hands than using one.

twinsword
27-03-2014, 10:41
Cause you throw your axe away!!!!!!!! you don't throw a pistol away

Ok i get it, plz stop screaming on the internet. i was just thinking that maby just maby you bring more then one

twinsword
27-03-2014, 10:48
you'd usually be better of with bare hands than using one.

No youre not, any weapon is better then no weapon especialy against an oppentent carrying a weapon, i know this from both traning kravmaga and HEMA
But if we are talking inbalance in the weapons....Well then we would more or less have to take away half of the weapons in the warhammer Universe :P i mean those hammers.

Memnos
27-03-2014, 11:01
Ungor Raiders are used in units of 3*2 to kill wizards. Their bows are a 'special effect'.

Much like the Cyclops anti-wizard rule, their bows aren't designed to really do anything during game. There's simply too few of them.

With a properly used herdstone augmentation, though, they're perfect for inexpensive core units designed to run in, kill a 2 wound model much more expensive than them, and die. Or act as speed bumps.

twinsword
27-03-2014, 11:18
Ungor Raiders are used in units of 3*2 to kill wizards. Their bows are a 'special effect'.

Much like the Cyclops anti-wizard rule, their bows aren't designed to really do anything during game. There's simply too few of them.

With a properly used herdstone augmentation, though, they're perfect for inexpensive core units designed to run in, kill a 2 wound model much more expensive than them, and die. Or act as speed bumps.

I Guess youre rigth, maby i should not have said anything snice i have never played a singel game of warhammer fantasty

twinsword
27-03-2014, 11:32
NEW CRAZY IDE!

What if the ungor "champions" rode around on chaos warhounds as a new unit so you could have a fast cavlry/shooty core unit? i think that could be really cool

Karak Norn Clansman
27-03-2014, 11:58
the last thing beastmen needs is having thiere units get worse

They're Ungors, there's your reason. :p

twinsword
27-03-2014, 12:08
They're Ungors, there's your reason. :p

eh ok? so since thiere the worst unit in the beastman book they should get worse? i dont really se youre point? Plz tell me how it would improve the balance of game cus i do not understand the logic atm?

Leogun_91
27-03-2014, 17:25
Cause you throw your axe away!!!!!!!! you don't throw a pistol awayAh, so that's what I'm doing wrong. Good thing I learnt that before my duel tomorrow dawn.


eh ok? so since thiere the worst unit in the beastman book they should get worse? i dont really se youre point? Plz tell me how it would improve the balance of game cus i do not understand the logic atm?Ungors are in fluff supposed to be the lowest and worst of the Beastmen hierarchy and thus it fits to make them reflect this. Of course the meaning is not to nerd them while laughing like a maniac and stroking your mustache. Instead you would nerf them thus and lower their points accordingly so that they become at least as good a choice as before.
Personally I believe their current stats and rules well reflect their fluff (though I agree with the idea of giving slings as an option) but a case can be made for lowering their stats.

Karak Norn Clansman
27-03-2014, 19:25
eh ok? so since thiere the worst unit in the beastman book they should get worse? i dont really se youre point? Plz tell me how it would improve the balance of game cus i do not understand the logic atm?

It's merely a standing joke in my hobby group about Ungors. When their plastic kit was released we joked a lot about GW missing out on introducing an Ungor hero.

In any case, I wouldn't mind Ungors becoming a dirt cheap horde unit like Goblins and Gnoblar. Though neither do I mind them being BS3.