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View Full Version : ideas for an army. thoguths feelings and suggestions please?



silverstone08
27-03-2014, 15:54
Hi all
so ive been thinking today abut a nice thematic (i think thats the right word for it) army involving an easy to play codex but with the adaptability of background and as far as i can tell this is either the new guard codex when its relaesed or the curretrn spavce marine one due to the many chapter tactics and wide range of plastic kits.

so im looking for an army that i cna pick up a unit or two at a time and really make indivsual loking something that shows that not only are indivsuals within an army but that each person has some indivsuality.
my plan is to use either one or or both fo the codexs (maybe an allied army) and create a custom space marine chapter centerd around free thinking indivsual nnear rengade (considering they're encouraged to think for themselves id expect that) marines who will most likely have damaged armour invisually paternds and wjhile contianing an overall color they may modify change and genrally make tit theyre own (think personal heraldy items and additions etc) done using greenstuff and plastic card. the guard will be squads of male and female troopers usigna variety of modified lasgun and marks of armour done using combination of oop guard models and again converting and modifying the guard themselves.

so thought comments suggestions etc?

Navar
27-03-2014, 16:50
I don't say this often, but that space marine chapter idea is almost unworkable. As you present it, it is actually not viable at all in a "fluffy" (or maybe "in world thematic") way.

In the fluff Space Marines are recruited as children and then programed using hypnotherapy and drug treatment. Individuality among space marines is fairly abhorant. It isn't a trait that would be selected when looking for recruits, and it is something that would be frowned upon by anyone with authority. Even among Chaos or Renegade space marine chapters individuality isn't a trait that commanders seek out when recruiting members into their warbands. Finally among elite fighting forces individuality is a determinant to the military strength of the force. Sun Tzu speaks at length about individuality, bearing, and drill even to the point of beheading a pair of women who won't heed his commands.

The Guard idea has merit however. There exists in the fluff the 13th Penal Legion, and they are an elite fighting force made up of criminals who are brought together under the banner of a particular Colonel who uses them for high hazard assignments. As such there exist males and females in the ranks and they are all very individualized. Here (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2008/242/a/5/Colonel_Schaeffer_by_GeneralCambronne.jpg)is a picture of members of that legion.

The problem I see you running into with the guard idea is the mixing and matching of old and new models. I am not sure how bad it is with the guard models, but the metal space marines are much smaller than the current generation of plastic space marines. What this causes is an odd sense of wrongness when looking at them on a tabletop. It may be tied to the Uncanny valley effect.

Also, not related to your post, but just a general comment/suggestion (because you asked) I have some advise for you. I don't know how you post to the forums, but if it is on a computer I recommend that you type your posts into a work processing program and then copy/paste them into the box on the forum. I did this for years until I discovered that Chrome (https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/)would point out spelling errors in the boxes into which I was typing, and I made the switch.

This post of yours is hard to read, you don't capitalize the first letter of your sentences, you don't seem to use enough punctuation, and your spelling and grammar is all over the place. It is disrespectful at the very least, but it forces those of us who want to determine your meaning to put more work into reading your post than we otherwise would have to.

If you are posting from a phone or tablet then I suggest that you upgrade your keyboard software. If it is an android device I personally suggest Swiftkey (http://www.swiftkey.net/en/). It is the program I use on my phone and tablet and it is very good, and saves me a lot of time.

silverstone08
27-03-2014, 17:14
Firstly thank you for the advice on the army from a thematic perspective. I am a relatively new player when it comes to space marines thus their fluff and fiction are not in my circle of knowledge.
Secondly. Yes i type directly into the post boxes and thus my spelling and grammar are not the best let alone the fact i have for my life had a number of learning disorders that make my writing pretty appalling so i shall take your advice and paste from word or something in the future thanks. For example this has been done on an iPad and i see tons of errors now.

In your eyes is their anyway a marine force can be individualised or is it going to have to be a fluff break to do such a thing?

Memnos
27-03-2014, 17:25
The easiest way to be a bunch of free thinkers?

Make an entire army of Fabius Bile's 'New Men'.

They're supposed to be smarter, stronger and faster than other humans. As smarter humans, they might realize "Wait a minute... Chaos gives me a 99% chance of something horrible happening to me while alive and a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999% chance that something horrible will happen to me when I'm dead. I don't think I'm good on all this Daemon-craziness."

You could make a bunch of Ayn Rand-style marines who deliberately looted loyalist armor and now, because of enlightened self-interest, are seeking to create a stable, non-crazy region of space.

The best part? If you're truly, honestly, genuinely good, your chapter is doomed to be hideously killed by the Inquisition. Or Chaos. Or aliens who hate humanity.

I think I'm going to do this: Paint 'em up like Rainbow Warriors as an homage to Rogue Trader - They were supposedly wiped out by the Sororitas, so it would be the ideal group for renegades posing as loyalist marines. It wouldn't be the first chapter to have its records lost and suddenly be 'found' to be important.

Navar
27-03-2014, 17:37
In your eyes is their anyway a marine force can be individualised or is it going to have to be a fluff break to do such a thing?

This is my opinion based on my knowledge of the fluff, but I just don't see a way it would work at all for a number of reasons. If it really is something that you want to try then I suggest you read up on the Deathwatch fiction/fluff.

[I am about to WAY oversimplify something in the fluff]
The Deathwatch is a group of marines from various chapters who all join up to help the inquisition. They all paint their armor black, but they [mostly] leave one shoulder pad painted with their original chapter color scheme and badge (icon/whatever).

You could make an inquisitorial force with the new AM codex, lead by an Inquisitor who has requisitioned a squad or two of Deathwatch marines. You might even be able to pull it off using Codex: Legion of the Damned so you could include a single squad or three.

Short of the Deathwatch I really cannot think of a way to pull of a group of individualized marines.

Also I caution you against trying to diverge from the fluff too much in search of a niche. The Mary Sue effect can play in too much and your "superawesome unique snowflake of doom" force could end up looking like an insane fever dream.

I would suggest that you read more of the fluff and learn more about the universe as well. A really cool chapter with a lot of really cool conversion potential/individuality that just sprang to mind is the Soul Drinkers. So there may be something out there that I am overlooking.


I think I'm going to do this: Paint 'em up like Rainbow Warriors as an homage to Rogue Trader - They were supposedly wiped out by the Sororitas, so it would be the ideal group for renegades posing as loyalist marines. It wouldn't be the first chapter to have its records lost and suddenly be 'found' to be important.

This really isn't fair.

#1 the fluff of the Sororitas wiping them out is pretty shaky, it involves some "implied" knowledge that all have to be true. For example the Death Strike chapter shares their badge (and for the most part color scheme minus the red) so it could have been another chapter with the same badge. There is fluff justification to imply that they fought alongside the Relictors and Fire Lords, but ended up losing their Chapter Master in the process just 250 years ago (as it were.)
and
#2 Silver Stone doesn't really know the fluff all that well, but many players do, and the Rainbow Warriors aren't really "individualized" in the least. They are ultramarines with yellow and red streaks on their helmets. I don't think they offer much in the way of conversions or personalizations.

Chem-Dog
27-03-2014, 18:56
Personally, I see great scope in individualising an Astartes army. Although all marines are indoctrinated as children (give or take a few years) there is still plenty of range in personalities, which is why only some Marines become Tech Marines, Chaplains, Apothecaries and even Captains and Chapter Masters, this can extend to the "rank and file" members of the Chapter with some preferring close combat and others preferring long range work (it's said that only the most balanced warriors can join the tactical squads, having to be able to swing between the two extremes as battle dictates). Temperament plays a big part in an Astartes' progression within his Chapter which wouldn't be the case if they were simply brain-washed super soldiers.
Chaos Marines would extend this even more, with each theoretically following his own whims even within a larger group.

The IG is another good place to do individual trooper-level characterisation, provided that you don't try to individually characterise an entire regiment (possible but incredibly hard work). Each human is an individual beyond drill, regimental doctrine and whatnot and their being human makes it easier to sympathise with them and create a back story that works.

Another approach would be to build an army based about one of the setting's more individualistic forces, An Inquisitor or Rogue Trader would be the first options in this instance. Neither have any hard and fast rules as to how they acquire followers, some might second entire regiments to further their aims where others might hand pick useful individuals from across the Imperium as need and opportunity dictate. This can lead to any amount of customisation you desire, a common resource pool can make them all appear relatively similar even if they have wildly different backgrounds, allowing you to build a cohesive force but populate it with individuals. On the flip-side the heretics of the Imperium are equally capable (if not more so) of creating individualistic war bands as lone heretics club together, talented individuals within the group gain standing and favour.



i shall take your advice and paste from word or something in the future

Google Chrome has spell check built in. Might be of some use to you, depending on the platform you use. :) (helps me out no end).

death2uall
28-03-2014, 15:15
A Sisters of Battle (with Imperial Guard backup) army might be another good, and characterful, choice, if not quite in the way silverstone was talking about. But there's plenty of room for individual heroines in a Sisters army, and the combination of a small, heavily-armored core with a large force of squishy Guardsman with a lot of rock-hard tanks might make for some interesting play.

Minigiant
28-03-2014, 17:24
If you want your original idea how about 40k Space Marine 'Bretonnians' they are recruited from the noble houses of its planet. They still wear their houses colours with pride. You could probably do the same with a Samurai theme

DoctorTom
28-03-2014, 20:13
I think Memnos is onto something in suggesting using Chaos Marines instead of the regular Space Marine codex, at least as a concept. You could do the Fabius Bile bit, or just have them be Marines who have been judged heretical for having individuality. Or, they might have developed the individuality from being stuck in a Warp tainted area too long (which would, of course, end up with them being judged heretics). It could theoretically be done with the regular Space Marine Codex.

You might want to wait and see what's in the upcoming Guard/Adeptus Militariwhatevertheycallit codex and the Tempetus/Stormtrooper thing that should be in the White Dwarf this or next week. Those Scion models are including I think 17 heads for 5 bodies, so there's a good chance for customization there. Those would be the "Bretonnians" that minigiant is talking about. If you go that way, it wouldn't be hard to tie them in with Imperial Knights if you wanted to go that way.

T10
29-03-2014, 13:03
I don't see a problem with a Space Marine "free company". There are plenty of failed and fallen Space Marine chapters. It's not hard to imagine that the surviving (and loyal) members that could not be absorbed into other chapters would instead band together. They could operate outside the normal command structure of the Imperium, sponsored by planetary governors, Rogue Traders or the Inquisition as ultimately disposable assets. Their job would be to take the missions for which the Imperium is unwilling to invest "proper" resources,

I would suggest the "default" Ultramarines chapter tactics for this group, as this can very well represent "moments of inspiration" on behalf of this melting-pot of a chapter.

-T10

DoctorTom
29-03-2014, 21:23
I don't see a problem with a Space Marine "free company". There are plenty of failed and fallen Space Marine chapters. It's not hard to imagine that the surviving (and loyal) members that could not be absorbed into other chapters would instead band together. They could operate outside the normal command structure of the Imperium, sponsored by planetary governors, Rogue Traders or the Inquisition as ultimately disposable assets. Their job would be to take the missions for which the Imperium is unwilling to invest "proper" resources,


And if they could take a Taurox as a vehicle we could call them the A-Team :p

Ruination Drinker
31-03-2014, 20:41
I love the Taurox... as a potential kit bash for Battlewagons.

Spider-pope
31-03-2014, 21:10
This is my opinion based on my knowledge of the fluff, but I just don't see a way it would work at all for a number of reasons. If it really is something that you want to try then I suggest you read up on the Deathwatch fiction/fluff.


I have to disagree. There are plenty of Chapters that don't follow the codex strictly. And examples of chapters that do favour individuality. The Iron Snakes for example send out a single Space Marine to complete missions on a regular basis. Are such chapters the norm? No, but there is nothing to say he can't create another exception.

The only restriction should be to make sure they aren't uber marines with overly powerful background. Give them flaws to balance out their strength and any fluff he creates should be fine.



#1 the fluff of the Sororitas wiping them out is pretty shaky, it involves some "implied" knowledge that all have to be true. For example the Death Strike chapter shares their badge (and for the most part color scheme minus the red) so it could have been another chapter with the same badge. There is fluff justification to imply that they fought alongside the Relictors and Fire Lords, but ended up losing their Chapter Master in the process just 250 years ago (as it were.)

It's not just implied, it's outright stated that they fought alongside the Relictors and Fire Lords in the Blood Star campaign. And to back you up, the whole killed by Soritas is based on one image of one Sorita killing one Rainbow Warrior, for the sake of a pun. Not to mention their other Rogue Trader fluff has been retconned, since they were originally a First Founding Chapter and the Ultramarines were one of their successors.



#2 Silver Stone doesn't really know the fluff all that well, but many players do, and the Rainbow Warriors aren't really "individualized" in the least. They are ultramarines with yellow and red streaks on their helmets. I don't think they offer much in the way of conversions or personalizations.

There really isn't anything at all on the Rainbow Warriors to rule out anything someone wants to do with them. Personally i've kept mine codex without any massive deviations, but i know people who have given them an extreme Aztec makeover and really pushed the boat out on their individuality.