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iantheace
28-03-2014, 09:19
Hi all, i have played a certain way for years as has our whole club, but we are being told that it's incorrect, however i still read what we do as correct (as do the rest of us).

Basically the scenario is a 10 wide unit, charges a 5 wide unit, and a chariot goes in with it.

HOW WE WOULD PLAY IT:

The chariot goes in, as does the unit, in order the maximize the number of MODELS in combat you have 6 models in contact from the horde and the chariot clips the corner of the 5 wide unit.

HOW IM TOLD TO PLAY IT:

Both units go in, you have to have the maximum number of models attacking each unit. The net effect is that the 10 man horde has 3 models in contact (sharing in the middle) and the chariot. This means 3 of the defending unit are in contact with the chariot, 3 are in contact with the horde.



I have a lot of problems with how im TOLD to play it int hat it's totally open to abuse and would make it super easy to avoid attacks from horde units .

What it also means:

If you have a 5 wide unit, charging a 5 wide unit with 2 chariots, the charge is impossible because you couldn't evenly distribute models between units. I accept that if you charged said unit with a 6 wide unit and 2 chariots, 1 unit would have to fail the charge.



The rules on page 23 seem to explain everything the way that we think it works, let me know what you think.

theunwantedbeing
28-03-2014, 10:05
You're playing it correctly.

thesoundofmusica
28-03-2014, 10:29
TUB has your answer. Out of curiousity, who is telling you to play it differently?

Andy p
28-03-2014, 11:19
Sounds like the people who try to tell me I have to slide across when receiving a charge, just because they don't want to go into the woods I've placed my unit partially in, because that would mean they might lose precious steadfast.

iantheace
28-03-2014, 12:11
Ah the guy who advised me is a tournament organiser who's normally very accurate, i wouldn't normally question but i was so sure about how this works :)

I wont name names though it doesnt benefit anyone, just wanted to have it right for mine & my club's sake.

GrudgeBringer
28-03-2014, 16:29
I am not sure that either is actually correct since charges dont happen simultaneously, you have to maximise with each charger individually as they charge. If both units are composed of models with 25mm bases and the chariot is on a 50/100 if the chariot charges first it maximises to contact 4 models and the unit charging second moves in bases to base with the chariot and gets 1 whole model and 1 corner to corner. Whereas if the 10 wide unit charges first it get 7 models in against the 5 man unit and the chariot automatically fails.

iamjack42
28-03-2014, 16:35
I am not sure that either is actually correct since charges dont happen simultaneously, you have to maximise with each charger individually as they charge. If both units are composed of models with 25mm bases and the chariot is on a 50/100 if the chariot charges first it maximises to contact 4 models and the unit charging second moves in bases to base with the chariot and gets 1 whole model and 1 corner to corner. Whereas if the 10 wide unit charges first it get 7 models in against the 5 man unit and the chariot automatically fails.

I believe the BRB has a special section on multiple units charging the same target, and that it clearly states that you must maximize between all charging units. Don't have the book to hand, but my understanding is you even roll each charge distance before moving any units in such a circumstance.

theunwantedbeing
28-03-2014, 16:43
I am not sure that either is actually correct since charges dont happen simultaneously, you have to maximise with each charger individually as they charge. If both units are composed of models with 25mm bases and the chariot is on a 50/100 if the chariot charges first it maximises to contact 4 models and the unit charging second moves in bases to base with the chariot and gets 1 whole model and 1 corner to corner. Whereas if the 10 wide unit charges first it get 7 models in against the 5 man unit and the chariot automatically fails.

Page 23, same section that details having to maximise models in base contact.

Henry_37
28-03-2014, 16:50
I am not sure that either is actually correct since charges dont happen simultaneously, you have to maximise with each charger individually as they charge. If both units are composed of models with 25mm bases and the chariot is on a 50/100 if the chariot charges first it maximises to contact 4 models and the unit charging second moves in bases to base with the chariot and gets 1 whole model and 1 corner to corner. Whereas if the 10 wide unit charges first it get 7 models in against the 5 man unit and the chariot automatically fails.

I thought the maximisation was only from your models point of view. as in I need to maximise the number of my guys in combat regardless of the number of opponent models. So if my 5 wide unit charges a horde so long as all my 5 guys can attack I don't need to ensure that 7 opponents can attack back?

GrudgeBringer
28-03-2014, 18:01
I thought the maximisation was only from your models point of view. as in I need to maximise the number of my guys in combat regardless of the number of opponent models. So if my 5 wide unit charges a horde so long as all my 5 guys can attack I don't need to ensure that 7 opponents can attack back?

Maximisation is from both sides if a 5 wide unit charges a 7 wide unit every one has to be in base to base assuming the bases are the same size.

iantheace
28-03-2014, 18:03
I am not sure that either is actually correct since charges dont happen simultaneously, you have to maximise with each charger individually as they charge. If both units are composed of models with 25mm bases and the chariot is on a 50/100 if the chariot charges first it maximises to contact 4 models and the unit charging second moves in bases to base with the chariot and gets 1 whole model and 1 corner to corner. Whereas if the 10 wide unit charges first it get 7 models in against the 5 man unit and the chariot automatically fails.


It clearly states you roll the charge distance for all units at the same time, so the charge is resolved simultaneously.

iantheace
28-03-2014, 18:06
I think another important part of page 23 to quote ass well is 'Remember however, that your PRIMARY goal is to always maximize the number of models fighting'

Saldiven
29-03-2014, 02:56
Ah the guy who advised me is a tournament organiser who's normally very accurate, i wouldn't normally question but i was so sure about how this works :)

I wont name names though it doesnt benefit anyone, just wanted to have it right for mine & my club's sake.

The guy who told you this is giving you a ruling that doesn't actually maximize the number of models in combat. By his ruling, several models in the block of infantry that could possible be in combat are being left out, which is explicitly against the rules.

Wilhelm das Blutige
30-03-2014, 20:43
It clearly states you roll the charge distance for all units at the same time, so the charge is resolved simultaneously.

I think you mean't that all the charges are resolved simultaneously (which they are). I would have a difficult time rolling all the charge distances simultaneously, especially if I had multiple units charging. The mental image I get is having sets of dice in each hand, in the crooks between my upper and forearms, in my armpits and in my mouth and trying to drop them all onto the table at the same time without them getting mixed up, falling on the floor or hitting my opponent in the eye.

Blkc57
31-03-2014, 08:25
I actually see this error quite frequently. Its due to people failing to fully understand page 23 of the BRB for Multiple Charges when it says "equalize the number of fighting models from each charging unit." They usually refer to this as Splitting Frontage, because the easiest way to calculate this is to simply divide the frontage into parts and give each part to a different charging unit. What they fail to do is continue reading the section where it says that the PRIMARY goal though is to always maximize the number of models fighting, and that it is acceptable to have an unequal division of the frontage if to do otherwise would prevent the maximum number of models from fighting in combat. So to answer your question OP (as many have already stated): you were correct, the TO was wrong.