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SanDiegoSurrealist
28-03-2014, 15:15
If a unit charges a DE Cauldron that is centered in a unit of Witch Elves with no champion, can the Hag on the Cauldron refuse the challenge?

If a unit charges a unit of Witch Elves, Cauldron centered in a unit, in the flank can the Hag on the Cauldron accept the challenge? If yes does that mean that the Cauldron can make way?

Artiee
28-03-2014, 15:21
A) I don't think so. There is no where the cauldron can move to get out of the fight.

furrie
28-03-2014, 15:29
there is nothing preventing the cauldron from accepting a challenge, when two models are in a chalenge they don't need to be in base contact.(see the chalenge rules in the brb)
*note this is only when there is no way to get the models in to base contact*

SanDiegoSurrealist
28-03-2014, 15:34
there is nothing preventing the cauldron from accepting a challenge, when two models are in a chalenge they don't need to be in base contact.(see the chalenge rules in the brb)
*note this is only when there is no way to get the models in to base contact*

Forgot about that, my main question is can a Cauldron Make Way?

Mr_Rose
28-03-2014, 17:31
Not normally, no. But remember also that if one model is immobile for some reason the other will move. Unless neither can in which case the challenge is carried out via hurled weapons/insults/minions (delete as appropriate).

SanDiegoSurrealist
28-03-2014, 18:14
I have a game tomorrow against a friend, and he always brings the Cauldron with 30-40 Witch Elves, trying to figure out a way to deal with it other than just running around and avoiding it.

dms505
07-04-2014, 19:49
I'm still not satisfied that the Hag on Cauldron can't move over to accept a challenge or make way. If it weren't able to do that then why would a Tomb Prince on chariot be able to make way and/or mover for a challenge. Both model types specify where they must be placed at the beginning of a battle and both fall under the rules for characters and challenges which allow them to move. As with any character in a unit they just have to move back to the legal spot in the unit after the combat/challenge.

Knifeparty
07-04-2014, 20:15
The problem is that the rules for the Cauldron say that it must stay as close to the middle of the unit as possible at all times.

TsukeFox
08-04-2014, 03:17
But it is a character mount with the same foot print as the unit.

There just needs to be an FAQ. Which is weird since there has 4 books since the Daemon book

dms505
08-04-2014, 15:46
The book's actual wording is

"It can also join units and leave as if it were a character, save for the fact that it must always be placed in the center of the front rank. . ."

This doesn't seem to be any different than a normal character having to be placed int he front rank, but still able to move for a challenge as long as they go back to the front rank afterward.

White_13oy
09-04-2014, 16:00
Couldn't the enemy character move to the cauldron, kinda like when an enemy unit has to close the gap when you charge if you can't fully swing.

dms505
09-04-2014, 17:59
Well if they are able to move to the caldron then yes they must, and otherwise they are still assumed to be in contact without actually moving. that's straight out of the BRB. The main question is whether the cauldron is able to move to the side of the unit for a challenge or just simply to make way to fight as a character is allowed.

The reason that question is important is the idea that you could bait someone into charging the flank of a unit with cauldron, move the cauldron with character over to attack or challenge and the enemy unit has to put all of it's attacks against the character or cauldron making it a slim chance to do any wounds other than the 2 for the hag if you get through her terror causing, WS6, 6+, 5++. If they accept or have to accept a challenge then that unit is now locked up until they can destroy the cauldron.

I have no doubt that they will FAQ this but in the mean time read as is this seems legal. Since the Bell/Furnace has the FAQ that explains the rules for it specifically they will have to do the same for the Cauldron. They SHOULD have made the FAQ say that "Any model, other than a character in a unit of the same troop type, who must be placed in a specific position within a unit must stay in said position and may not move for any reason". That would have encompassed this new cauldron as well. Or maybe they could have just put the rule in the original DE army book. I can't imagine this question never came up in play testing. Though it may have just been assume people would use the ruling for the Bell/Furnace.

dms505
22-10-2014, 12:52
After thinking about my above post and reading others again I noticed here that I am wrong depending on how many models are in contact. Even if we were able to move the cauldron over to fight, we aren't allowed to take models out of combat. However I could see a gray area in moving the cauldron over to the corner in order to be base to base with the enemy character. X being the enemy character and C being the cauldron moving from the center of the witches (W). By doing that the same number of witches would be in combat as would the characters but would keep the ranks as close to the original as possible.


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It's still not easy but it's an option to the way the rules might be interpreted. Just remember they don;t REALLY have to be in contact to say they are in a challenge. That's usually just used by one side or the other to allow less attacks on a unit. However in this situation it would always be nice to cause fear tests from the cauldron and even mo betta if the hag has Cry of War.