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hobojebus
31-03-2014, 21:27
As most of us will acknowledge the Valkyrie has been a little on the strong side since 6th ed came out having some of the heaviest armour yet being somewhat undercosted because they were skimmers when the codex first came out.

I don't do guard and i'm not curious enough to make the 2 hour long trip there and back to find out, but has the valk changed much, has it lost armour, has the points cost risen at all?

If someone has the tempestus book i'd be interested to know, dont need the points or stats just curious if you think they've addressed some of the issues people had with that unit.

Theocracity
31-03-2014, 21:34
I don't think you're going to get an answer yet. The book's still on pre-order.

AngryAngel
31-03-2014, 21:38
I don't recall anyone really saying the Valk was too much, I think it was the vendetta that people complained about. As to what they've done ? Until people get their books towards the end of the week, we won't know. Though we still may not know the whole story until the end of next week when the proper guard codex is supposed to drop.

Ironbone
31-03-2014, 21:41
The book's still on pre-order.
No, it's not :p.

What is in pre-order is miltarum tempestus, stormtroppers suplement ( or mini codex, name as you wish ), NOT a IG ( renamed astra militarum ) codex. Unless stormies will get valkirie as DT :o.

Theocracity
31-03-2014, 21:45
No, it's not :p.

What is in pre-order is miltarum tempestus, stormtroppers suplement ( or mini codex, name as you wish ), NOT a IG ( renamed astra militarum ) codex. Unless stormies will get valkirie as DT :o.

I'm expecting the Tempestus list to include Valkyries in some form.

hobojebus
31-03-2014, 21:55
AH for some reason i had it in my head it was out.

Sgt John Keel
31-03-2014, 22:14
I'm expecting the Tempestus list to include Valkyries in some form.

It's in the online store under the MilTemp category, so it's pretty much a certainty as far as I am concerned.

MajorWesJanson
31-03-2014, 22:53
Yes, MT seems to include:
Commissar/Lord Commissar
Scions
Scion Command squad
Taurox Prime
Chimaera
Valkyrie(/Vendetta?)

MagicHat
31-03-2014, 23:01
Yes, MT seems to include:
Commissar/Lord Commissar
Scions
Scion Command squad
Taurox Prime
Chimaera
Valkyrie(/Vendetta?)

I don't think Inquisition got vendetta so those are probably out. Chimaera is not 100% either, as that might only be for Astra Militarum scions.

Stormraven were AV12 skimmers that didn't change in price, so we will see. Might not change as much as people expect.

Bartali
01-04-2014, 11:30
Unless there's a new/rejigged flier box, I can see the Vendetta getting squatted or moved to Forgeworld only

AndrewGPaul
01-04-2014, 11:43
it already is. :)

Bartali
01-04-2014, 15:57
Last I looked it was in the IG codex, no ?

Dwane Diblie
01-04-2014, 16:37
The Valk is in the scions codex and is part of the scions army as it is listed as so on the GW website. As for whether it is dedi transport or FA is anyones guess.

f the Taurox is anything to go off then we may be in for a BS4 valk which will (should) have different points to the IG valk of now and to come.

As for if it has actually changed with edditions, no it hasn't. It got some clarification in the flyer sup and that is also in the IG faq. But, no points or rules changes yet.

DoctorTom
01-04-2014, 21:58
No, it's not :p.

What is in pre-order is miltarum tempestus, stormtroppers suplement ( or mini codex, name as you wish ), NOT a IG ( renamed astra militarum ) codex. Unless stormies will get valkirie as DT :o.

They get Valkyries in some form, given their presence in the Tempestus Scions Expeditionary Force package that GW has for preorder :P

carldooley
01-04-2014, 22:27
Valkyries are also dedicated transport options in Codex: Inquisition. There is no change that I could tell, but as they are in C:I, & MT, if there is a change, there will have to be a FAQ for the change in the other books (and how often does that happen?).

Ironbone
01-04-2014, 22:27
Good, so if there will be any changes to how valkiria operates in codex IG/AM, similar ones should been apilied to ones used in Militarum tempestus as well :) .

hobojebus
02-04-2014, 01:07
Valkyries are also dedicated transport options in Codex: Inquisition. There is no change that I could tell, but as they are in C:I, & MT, if there is a change, there will have to be a FAQ for the change in the other books (and how often does that happen?).

Surprisingly digital codexs are kept up to date fairly regularly, if the new guard codex changes them then the inquisition book will probably change with it.

carldooley
02-04-2014, 01:34
Surprisingly digital codexs are kept up to date fairly regularly, if the new guard codex changes them then the inquisition book will probably change with it.

actually, it was meant to be academic. think psychic hoods.

Lanacane
02-04-2014, 01:55
Stormraven were AV12 skimmers that didn't change in price, so we will see. Might not change as much as people expect.

and are close to 200pts..

ValkDettas are 1-3 Squadrons for 50pts less.. in a codex where troops were already cheap.

when the other guy has 12+ on the board and you just have the ADL for AA..

MagicHat
02-04-2014, 02:09
and are close to 200pts..

ValkDettas are 1-3 Squadrons for 50pts less.. in a codex where troops were already cheap.

when the other guy has 12+ on the board and you just have the ADL for AA..

And yet SR and Vendetta/Valkyrie where both released as AV12 skimmers in 5th and when the SR was updated to 6th it didn't change at all, and neither did the Valkyrie in the Inquisition codex.
So honestly, the fact that pretty much everyone thinks it is underpriced means nothing. GW may or may not rebalance it. Might even relegate it to be a FW option.

Hawkkf
02-04-2014, 07:35
The inquisition codex has little bearing on how the valkyrie will change. As far as I have seen the black library digital only codexes were limited to using only existing models and are mostly copy/paste. They aren't meant to be full blown permanent codexes with the full (testing?) writing processes that sit static for 4 years before getting a measurable change. The positive side is that once a measurable change does take place, the digital only product can be easily updated as it does not require a physical reprint.

I do not expect the Valkyrie to change much in the way of points. There is little complaint for the valk itself. It's main weapon is a multilaser and missiles that are one shot and ordnance so are never taken. Most people swap out for MRP which aren't game breaking and can't be fired when forced to jink. Sure they can take side gunners, but the arc needs to be determined to avoid arguments. The problem is in the Vendetta as you swap out the MRP and Multilaser for 3 twin-linked lascannons for zero cost without losing carrying capacity.

The tempestus codex will certainly have the newest rules for the valkyrie. I doubt it will be very different from the militarum varient unless it gets a scion BS and special missiles/rockets or a special insertion rule akin to the re-roll scatter that storm troopers could opt for. What the tempestus codex will tell us is if the base cost has drastically changed, if they fixed the issue with one shot ordnace missiles, and if they address the side gunner arc question. We will have to wait until militarum comes out to see if the vendetta even makes the cut (no proper model and only a FW upgrade kit) to see how they decide to address its issues.

The Emperor
02-04-2014, 11:44
We will have to wait until militarum comes out to see if the vendetta even makes the cut (no proper model and only a FW upgrade kit) to see how they decide to address its issues.

Apparently it has.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=14000022


Imagine an army made entirely of Tempestus Scions, dropping from the sky on grav-chutes and engaging the enemy with extreme prejudice. Picture them racing forward in Taurox Primes supported by Valkyries and Vendetta Gunships, scything down their foes with well-drilled precision, their hot-shot lasguns lighting up the battlefield like Christmas.

Lanacane
02-04-2014, 12:13
Apparently it has.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=14000022

its out saturday..

until then its pissing in the wind and hoping you didnt get wet

The Emperor
02-04-2014, 12:17
I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Guardsman Marbo
02-04-2014, 12:35
its out saturday..

until then its pissing in the wind and hoping you didnt get wet

Most stores will get the codex Thursday or Friday. I'm sure someone on the globe will 'leak' it before that. A big rule change on the vendetta would spread like wildfire.

DoctorTom
02-04-2014, 15:12
its out saturday..

until then its pissing in the wind and hoping you didnt get wet

Yeah, Lord knows we wouldn't want to take GW's own website at their word for what's going to be in the army. :rolleyes:

Lanacane
02-04-2014, 18:34
Yeah, Lord knows we wouldn't want to take GW's own website at their word for what's going to be in the army. :rolleyes:

no need for snark..

the question is "has the valk changed?"

until saturday we do not know.. so hey presto you are acting the jester

DoctorTom
02-04-2014, 18:46
no need for snark..

the question is "has the valk changed?"

until saturday we do not know.. so hey presto you are acting the jester

Your reply was to someone mentioning the vendetta has made the cut in response to someone else asking if it had been included. If you had meant to address "has the valk changed" rather than "is the vendetta in the list" then maybe you should make your response to a post that directly addressed that. Then, it doesn't look like you're trying to dispute what GW's website is saying (which is something that definitely deserved snark). Sorry, I'm not a mind reader to be able to tell you're addressing a different point from the person you're quoting, I'll call the psychic hotline next time to see if you're commenting on the right thing. :rolleyes:

EDIT: The Emperor's comment right after you should have tipped you off that you might not have been clear about what you had been saying. ;)

Lanacane
02-04-2014, 21:41
Your reply was to someone mentioning the vendetta has made the cut in response to someone else asking if it had been included. If you had meant to address "has the valk changed" rather than "is the vendetta in the list" then maybe you should make your response to a post that directly addressed that. Then, it doesn't look like you're trying to dispute what GW's website is saying (which is something that definitely deserved snark). Sorry, I'm not a mind reader to be able to tell you're addressing a different point from the person you're quoting, I'll call the psychic hotline next time to see if you're commenting on the right thing. :rolleyes:

EDIT: The Emperor's comment right after you should have tipped you off that you might not have been clear about what you had been saying. ;)

I cant possibly comment on a book that isnt out yet.

neither can the others in this thread.

the ValkDetta may have been changed.. guess when we find out? Oh boy you were right... SATURDAY

DoctorTom
02-04-2014, 22:19
I cant possibly comment on a book that isnt out yet.

neither can the others in this thread.

the ValkDetta may have been changed.. guess when we find out? Oh boy you were right... SATURDAY

I'm not dealing with when we find out if they changed, and your original post didn't look like it was either. When GW gives us information that something is in the army before the codex is out, then we should be able to take that as being true. They said today that the Vendettas are included. Hawwkf asked if the Vendettas are included in the list. The Emperor said they did, and provided the link. You said we can't know until Saturday, which is a patently stupid thing to say at that point as there has been a statement by GW that they are in there. So, we can comment on a book that isn't out yet based on statements that the company has released now about what's in the book, despite your Sergeant Shultz attitude of "I know nu-thing! nu-thing!"

You didn't make any reference in that post about talking about changes, you made your"until then it's pissing in the wind" comment about the statement that it's being included. continuing with the "Guess when we find out?" questions about when we find out when it's changed doesn't change you responding to a "It's in the army" comment essentially with "we can't possibly know until Saturday" despite being told by GW today it is in there.

Your response makes you seem like you just want to be bullheaded about this and ignore the fact that what you thought you were commenting on wasn't a proper reponse to the post you quoted. Continuing with the "oh boy you were right...SATURDAY" type comments won't change that. You're right, we won't know about changes until Saturday, but we do know about the unit being present in the list now. Unless you think we can't possibly comment on statements that GW has made about a book they will be publishing and presumably know the contents of. :eyebrows:

EDIT: Spoiler alert - they will also have the Scions and the Taurox in the Codex. Or is that something else that can't possibly be commented on until the book is out?

Lanacane
02-04-2014, 23:56
EDIT: Spoiler alert - they will also have the Scions and the Taurox in the Codex. Or is that something else that can't possibly be commented on until the book is out?

Someone not get their morning milk?

It can be commented on because in the White Dwarf (ya know their official magazine?) it shows whats available.. also by what is on preorder.

what we cant comment on is whether or not the valkDetta has changed profile wise..

Unless of course Dr.Snark has the answer?

Spiney Norman
03-04-2014, 13:31
Yeah, Lord knows we wouldn't want to take GW's own website at their word for what's going to be in the army. :rolleyes:

Where exactly on the GW website can you find the full profile, special rules and points cost for the Valkyrie/Vendetta as printed in the Militarum Tempestus codex? Its going to be difficult to judge whether the power issues with the vendetta have been addressed until we see that.

Since that is what this whole thread is about...

MagicHat
03-04-2014, 14:14
Where exactly on the GW website can you find the full profile, special rules and points cost for the Valkyrie/Vendetta as printed in the Militarum Tempestus codex? Its going to be difficult to judge whether the power issues with the vendetta have been addressed until we see that.

Since that is what this whole thread is about...

Hawkkf raised the point that we are not even certain if the vendetta is in the codex, since it is not in the =][= codex, The Emperor and DoctorTom said that, according to the GW website, it is in.
That is all he said. That is what the quote you quoted says.

DoctorTom
03-04-2014, 16:18
Where exactly on the GW website can you find the full profile, special rules and points cost for the Valkyrie/Vendetta as printed in the Militarum Tempestus codex? Its going to be difficult to judge whether the power issues with the vendetta have been addressed until we see that.

Since that is what this whole thread is about...


Hawkkf raised the point that we are not even certain if the vendetta is in the codex, since it is not in the =][= codex, The Emperor and DoctorTom said that, according to the GW website, it is in.
That is all he said. That is what the quote you quoted says.

MagicHat's correct. This has become a derailment since Lanacane replied to the Emperor's statement saying we couldn't possibly know what's in the book until it's out despite GW confirming that the Vendetta is in the Codex. And the questions you raise aren't what's in the army (as you quoted me), that was beyond my statement. I'm sorry that I derailed the thread by disagreeing with Lanacane and pointing out that we actually can know some things before the book comes based on things GW confirms about the book beforehand (something Lanacane finally agreed to in his last post). I wasn't making any comments about knowing if the profiles have changed, and I'm sorry that people think that when someone answers someone else's question in the thread (as The Emperor did to Hawwkf) and someone else comes in and incorrectly states that we can't know that (Lanacane), that it's inappropriate to correct that person and point out that we in fact do know the things about the book that GW has informed us. Or, should nobody have said anything in the first place to answer Hawwkf's question about whether the Vendetta was in the Codex because that wasn't in the original post for the thread? :eyebrows:

Atrum Angelus
03-04-2014, 16:22
The Vendetta is not in the Militarum Tempestus codex, sadly. I was really hoping it was.

Spiney Norman
03-04-2014, 17:53
The Vendetta is not in the Militarum Tempestus codex, sadly. I was really hoping it was.

Have you seen the book? Is this just another hilarious case of GW's left hand not knowing what its right have is doing?

Atrum Angelus
03-04-2014, 18:05
From what I know the point cost went up by 25% too.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
*edited

Ozendorph
03-04-2014, 18:08
Do you mean to say it went up 25% (to 125% of its previous cost), or do you actually mean its cost rose by 125%?

The Emperor
03-04-2014, 18:09
There's no way its cost rose 125%. I think it's safe to say he meant that it's now 125% of its old price. I guess GW really wants to sell some Hydra's, if they're eliminating the Vendetta, which is a pretty badass aircraft.

Atrum Angelus
03-04-2014, 18:09
As in the cost is 125% its current cost. Sorry. An increase of 25%.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Spiney Norman
03-04-2014, 21:54
As in the cost is 125% its current cost. Sorry. An increase of 25%.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

That still seems pretty cheap for what you're getting if you compare it to your average flyer (storm talon), but any increase is warranted for how cheap they are ATM.

Atrum Angelus
03-04-2014, 22:15
On the topic of Vendetta's, they may be just moving to Forgeworld with a "40,000 Approved" stamp. Which means it's still legal for regular games, it just moves it to the purview of Forgeworld models.

AndrewGPaul
04-04-2014, 00:24
The Vendetta is not in the Militarum Tempestus codex, sadly. I was really hoping it was.


From what I know the point cost went up by 25% too.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
*edited

I take it you mean that the Vendetta is not in Codex: Militarum Tempestus, and that the entry in Codex: Astra Militarum has increased?

Atrum Angelus
04-04-2014, 00:41
The Vendetta is not in Militarum Tempestus and the Valkyrie increased in the same codex.
I know nothing about the Astra Militarum codex.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

hobojebus
04-04-2014, 13:05
So someone has the codex and has said the following:

valk has gone up 25 points
You can upgrade to one lascanon for 10 points
You can do missiles for 10 points they are no better than before.

In the scion book there is no option to take vendettas so we have to wait for the IG book for them.

DoctorTom
04-04-2014, 17:09
It will be interesting to see if the IG book contains a Vendetta formation (or if one comes out in an online dataslate) as a way to include them in an MT army without using an ally slot.

Gungo
04-04-2014, 17:32
So someone has the codex and has said the following:

valk has gone up 25 points
You can upgrade to one lascanon for 10 points
You can do missiles for 10 points they are no better than before.

In the scion book there is no option to take vendettas so we have to wait for the IG book for them.
Considering the removed the rerollable deep strike rules for storm troopers and the fact the valk doesn't have a great weapon load out And it's in reserves. I think the point cost increase will mean you are going to see more taurox then valk transports. Unless of course this new valk is a stormtrooper varients with bs4. I just don't see see a lot of use for a redundant expensive anti infantry transport that can't reliably drop expensive troops. But maybe that's the point and they want people buying the taurox instead at 1/3 the cost of the valk, quicker and more reliable transport, with better weapons and a bit less survivabilty.

The vendetta I heard was 170 points and only had a transport capacity of 6. Making it reasonably priced and able to drop a cheap late game contesting SWS w flamers and or demo charge.

The Emperor
05-04-2014, 02:24
The vendetta I heard was 170 points and only had a transport capacity of 6. Making it reasonably priced and able to drop a cheap late game contesting SWS w flamers and or demo charge.

That's funny because, according to a new rumor, Special Weapons Squads are gone...

Gungo
05-04-2014, 03:59
That's funny because, according to a new rumor, Special Weapons Squads are gone...
Not gone that list is based on the index at the back of a codex. Sws are just normal imperial guards. Although that doesn't bode well for hwt's this implies they are still toughness 3 wound 2 model that can be insta killed. I hope they give hwt's rules similar to saber platforms. And I'm wondering if the death strike missile is a D weapon like it should be and was in apocalypse before they ported it over to 40k.

Sgt John Keel
05-04-2014, 17:09
And I'm wondering if the death strike missile is a D weapon like it should be and was in apocalypse before they ported it over to 40k.

I don't remember the Deathstrike being in Apocalypse before the 5th edition Imperial Guard Codex. (Or was it as a separate weapon? I don't recall that either, but I'm not 100 % sure.) After the release of the Codex, there was a datasheet with a Deathstrike with a Vortex Missile though.

Gungo
05-04-2014, 20:17
I don't remember the Deathstrike being in Apocalypse before the 5th edition Imperial Guard Codex. (Or was it as a separate weapon? I don't recall that either, but I'm not 100 % sure.) After the release of the Codex, there was a datasheet with a Deathstrike with a Vortex Missile though.
Sorry it was epic not apocolypse. You can still see the miniture online.

corps
06-04-2014, 10:14
The troop capacity hasn't changed, the reduce transport capacity was just a rumour. At least for what i see.

The Emperor
06-04-2014, 11:16
The troop capacity hasn't changed, the reduce transport capacity was just a rumour. At least for what i see.

It's the Vendetta which is supposed to have seen reduced troop capacity, not the Valkyrie.

corps
06-04-2014, 11:17
On what basis? i m curious to know.

The Emperor
06-04-2014, 11:25
Somebody who reportedly saw a copy. The Vendetta's got a transport of 6 now and costs 170 points.

corps
06-04-2014, 11:28
Unless the structures of squad in the next book has changed it s severely limit the number of option of what can get in.

The Emperor
06-04-2014, 11:30
Unless the structures of squad in the next book has changed it s severely limit the number of option of what can get in.

That's probably the point. :\

corps
06-04-2014, 11:33
That make it a downgraded imperial version of the falcon whitout the benefits of what can get in.

Lanacane
06-04-2014, 13:56
That make it a downgraded imperial version of the falcon whitout the benefits of what can get in.

I think that a meltavet squad at full strength in a vendetta was a little overkill..

I think that a scion squad or command squad inside is far more believable

lordbeefy
06-04-2014, 14:41
I can confirm that the cost is 170 with transport of 6.

I will still field my two vendettas....still well worth the cost in my opinion. These things simply cut through enemy armour so so well. I reckon they are some of, if not the best air option in the game. The only thing that remains will be whether i need to invest in a valkyrie to give additional carrying capacity, but i doubt it, will stick with vendettas providing aircover for my armoured fist squads.

Lanacane
06-04-2014, 19:44
I can confirm that the cost is 170 with transport of 6.

I will still field my two vendettas....still well worth the cost in my opinion. These things simply cut through enemy armour so so well. I reckon they are some of, if not the best air option in the game. The only thing that remains will be whether i need to invest in a valkyrie to give additional carrying capacity, but i doubt it, will stick with vendettas providing aircover for my armoured fist squads.

still a squadron? as that will kill it off if it isnt.

170 is still cheap for what it does.. and it handled the turkey well enough.