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myafed2900
05-04-2014, 09:23
Ok Im new to Warhammer 40k and I started CSM army of World Eaters but I have a few questions that I want ppl with more experience can maybe help me out,
To my understanding the "bunny ears" helmet was part of the world eaters theme , not just for the berzerkers, looking in the lexicanum world eaters theme you see the shoulder pad insignia , colors and helmet, so I guess that's the world eaters theme of the whole warband ? Also the forge world World Eaters Conversion Set says "Ten Replacement shoulder pad sets, heads and torsos for the plastic Chaos Space Marines, depicting World Eaters and Khorne iconography" so why some people and even Games workshop refer to it as " khorne berzerkers upgrade paks"? ??? => here http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=5900002-gws I know for a fact that all the world eaters are not berzerkers , also not all berzerkers are world eaters. Can someone share some light here ? Thank u


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Scammel
05-04-2014, 09:51
'World Eaters' and 'Khorne Berzerkers' are used pretty much interchangeably, don't think too hard about it. To my knowledge the 'ears' are more commonly found on the Berzerkers and other CSM combat specialists as opposed to the ranged support, but in reality it's entirely up to you how you want to mix and match.

Sanai
05-04-2014, 10:07
Berzerkers are not a specialist unit with the World Eaters- the Bunny ears and red armour is not a uniform for Berzerkers, it is the uniform of the World Eaters in general, it is just that as the remnants of the World Eaters roam around looking for fights in Berzerker armour, those that join or emulate them emulate their aesthetic. Berzerkers squads are the World Eaters equivalent of Chaos Marine squads. World Eaters chosen would generally just be more elite Berzerkers, Havocs would be slightly more lucid berzerkers that shoot people because they have not succumbed to bloodlust as much as the others, and etc.

If you need evidence that the Berzerker aesthetic is how all world eaters look, look at the Forge World World Eaters upgrade kit for Terminators. Same bunny ears.
Remember that any real organisation or institutional sanity they had went out the window when Kharn fractured the legion.

myafed2900
05-04-2014, 10:22
Sanai what you said about the WE chosen and regular CSM you mean their look right ? Because you'll still using the chosen or CSM stats no? Sorry for all the noob questions guys


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Sanai
05-04-2014, 10:31
For the Chosen I would use Chosen stats with Mark of Khorne and a close combatty loadout, and a more ornate version of the Berzerker look.

For regular Chaos Marines I would probably just not use them and use Berzerkers instead with Kharn unlocking Berzerkers as troops. If I wanted to avoid using Kharn, I would use Chaos Space Marines with close combat weapons & bolt pistols, with some berzerker bits mixed into the unit to make them look more similar to berzerkers.

But thats just how I would do it- I do plan on running a small world eaters army one day, but mine is just going to be Kharn, Berzerkers and some WE terminators. My advice would be to just buy the various WE bits, a few boxes of berzerkers, whatever space marine or chaos space marine kits you think has the coolest bits and mix and match between it all. Most of my Alpha Legion CSM are made of bits from multiple kits. No one is going to complain if a few guys out of each squad have different helmets, as long as its all painted the right colours and the army comp fits the style of the army.

Scammel
05-04-2014, 10:37
I'll just point out that you don't need Kharn to unlock Berzerkers, any Khorne lord will do. Plus, standard CSM could well represent aspirant CSM from other warbands who haven't yet undergone the full surgery to become true Berzerkers.

Sanai
05-04-2014, 10:38
I'll just point out that you don't need Kharn to unlock Berzerkers, any Khorne lord will do. Plus, standard CSM could well represent aspirant CSM from other warbands who haven't yet undergone the full surgery to become a true Berzerker.

Good points actually.

Everto
05-04-2014, 17:27
I run at least 1 squad of CSM with bolters and MOK just for tactical flexibility because even if they get charged they have the counter attack special rule and I find they hold their own against everything apart from specialist CC unit. Occasionally I also run a plasma death havoc squad in a Rhino or Dreadclaw as a bit of a surprise to my opponents. Both units are suitably modeled using Forge World upgrade packs. The point I'm trying to make is my army may not be a traditional World Eaters army but I can still play a fairly competitive list with World Eaters instead of fighting an uphill battle from the start.

Spider-pope
05-04-2014, 17:48
I run at least 1 squad of CSM with bolters and MOK just for tactical flexibility because even if they get charged they have the counter attack special rule and I find they hold their own against everything apart from specialist CC unit. Occasionally I also run a plasma death havoc squad in a Rhino or Dreadclaw as a bit of a surprise to my opponents. Both units are suitably modeled using Forge World upgrade packs. The point I'm trying to make is my army may not be a traditional World Eaters army but I can still play a fairly competitive list with World Eaters instead of fighting an uphill battle from the start.

I do similar. I've got a unit of havocs and Warp Talons converted with Berzerker parts for my World Eaters army. Just because they are mad, doesn't mean they can't do anything else. And my havocs have charged more than one squad and beaten them to death with their special weapons anyway.

Everto
05-04-2014, 20:07
I do similar. I've got a unit of havocs and Warp Talons converted with Berzerker parts for my World Eaters army. Just because they are mad, doesn't mean they can't do anything else. And my havocs have charged more than one squad and beaten them to death with their special weapons anyway.

I feel the World Eaters are seriously at an injustice because of the fluff, how could an army of maniacs that chuck themselves head on into the enemies guns survive 10,000 years without some serious recruiting. I could even see some warbands stop implanting the nails in every recruit and just saving them for the assault units. I know it goes against what's established but I feel the frothing nutter vibe makes them a tad one dimensional.

Scammel
06-04-2014, 01:39
I feel the World Eaters are seriously at an injustice because of the fluff, how could an army of maniacs that chuck themselves head on into the enemies guns survive 10,000 years without some serious recruiting. I could even see some warbands stop implanting the nails in every recruit and just saving them for the assault units. I know it goes against what's established but I feel the frothing nutter vibe makes them a tad one dimensional.

Interpretations vary, but the best one probably is: They aren't just frothing nutters. Well, they are, but they're certainly not unintelligent about how and when they pick fights. That rage is twinned with the warcraft inherent to any Space Marine. Speaking of 'any Space Marine', it's also worth remembering that Berzerkers are still the same ridonkulously powerful Marines that we tend to see in pro-Imperium literature, only angrier, more skilled and often considerably older to boot. There's not many things in the galaxy standing up to a single Berzerker.

Sanai
06-04-2014, 04:14
Also remember that the World Eaters are no longer a single organisation. They broke up completely. Sometimes some warlord or other manages to gather a whole bunch of them together, but the rest of the time each little warband is fending for itself and recruiting for itself. The World Eaters will probably die out completely eventually, with no one left that is an original World Eater.

Everto
06-04-2014, 09:53
They're are probably very few original World Eaters left in the 41st millenium which lends itself to their direct style of warfare. It'd be interesting to have some more information in regards to recruitment practises across the traitor legions as a whole. Fabius Bile can't service every single warband in existence after all.

Sanai
06-04-2014, 10:21
I suspect that the World Eaters might no longer recruit in the way other Legions do- while most like the Iron Warriors, Black Legion, etc still take in mortals and change them into Astartes, the World Eaters could very well have lost the patience for weakling mortal aspirants and just recruit existing Astartes renegades who wish to dedicate themselves to Khorne- it means someone else did all the hard work of providing gene seed/training/etc for them, all the World Eaters need to do is let the prospective world eater fight alongside them for a while until he earns the right to psycho-surgery.

Or it could be a mixture of both- though how mortal recruits can survive the presence of angry, often violently impatient Astartes that utterly despise the weakness of mortals for long enough to be trained and changed into Astartes is beyond me.

Questions like this is why groups like the World Eaters need more fluff written for them- given that Black Library have done little ebooks for Plague Marines and Rubrics, hopefully Berzerkers will get one soon, and it will shed light on how they recruit.

Dr.Clock
06-04-2014, 14:17
Yeah... I think Khornate forces are incredibly likely to end up being a hodgepodge LatD-style affair. In a galaxy where there is ONLY WAR, the Blood God will surely have many followers. Any group of original Berzerkers is going to have a following of cultists and all kinds of other strangeness from within the Eye.

It would in no way surprise me to learn that a significant number of 'new' marines who fall to Chaos, fall to Khorne - as in, more than 25%. This is based simply on the fact that Marines are made for war, and that is the food of Khorne. Any individual marine who does so, and flees to the Eye, will likely find his way into a World Eaters band.

This more or less corresponds to how Khorne armies work in-game. Aside from a solid core of Berzerkers, you really DO need other kinds of units to achieve goals like claiming objectives or, you know, shooting.

As far as the helmets go, I'm not entirely sure how close the connection is between their form, and the God of War Himself... from a design perspective, it's worth noting that WHFB Khorne warriors have similar helms. However, recent art of Heresy-era WE have them with similar designs.

In sum, there's no reason for a Khorne marine to have or not have any kind of helm. The 'Khorne Berzerker' nomenclature problem stems from the essential current overlap between "World Eater" and "Berzerker"... Death Guard and Plague Marines have a similar problem, except that all DG ARE PM. More specifically, however, the upgrade pack in question WAS designed with WE Berzerkers in mind... for the Vraks Servants of Slaughter list, which allowed ONLY Berzerkers for the SM part (IIRC).

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Sotek
06-04-2014, 22:12
Not all WE are Berzerkers, not all berzerkers are WE.

You can have WE tanks, long ranged guns etc. Even *gasp* psykers (through 'necessity', they may not be as repected but they get the job done, and khorne isn't going to be giving them any particular favours)

Also fluff wise new recruits could be given guns and stuff in order to prove themselves before they get the nails and become berzerkers.

Inquisitor Engel
06-04-2014, 22:16
Not all WE are Berzerkers, not all berzerkers are WE.

It's actually been canon since 3rd Edition or so that all World Eaters are now Berzerkers.

Lord Damocles
06-04-2014, 22:19
Not all WE are Berzerkers, not all berzerkers are WE.
Actually...

'Every member of the World Eaters Legion is a Berzerker, although not every Beserker originates from that Legion.'
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (3.5 ed.), pg.29

Although not every Berzerker need be an axe-wielding crazy all of the time. We know that the World Eaters have tank crews, and some remain (relatively) sane enoguh to carry out brain surgery, for example. 2nd (and 3rd?) ed. Berzerkers could take Bolters.

myafed2900
07-04-2014, 04:35
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This is the guy I'm working on right now, i guess it will be my aspiring champion in a CSM squad of world eaters army …. or maybe i make a Berzerker champion ??? both arms are magnetized so i can give him some axes for an axe rampage

myafed2900
07-04-2014, 04:53
Good point there archaist, before kharns betrayal they used to have normal csm and berzerkers correct me if I'm wrong, after the betrayal that they got scattered into war bands and then all left is berzerkers right?

Inquisitor Engel
07-04-2014, 17:12
Despite Khârn being portrayed for years as a raving lunatic, incapable of regular cognition outside of "KILL! MAIM! BURN!" his recent appearances in the Horus Heresy series, as well as his audiobook adventures show someone who, whilst at the mercy of his implants from time to time, is very much in control of his actions for much of the time. He even has a seneschal that follows him around at one point, whom he manages to not kill, because he finds them useful. He's also got a plan to keep the World Eaters from ever uniting again (for what reason, I don't think is made clear) and is going about executing that plan.

I don't think Khârn is the exception to the rule. Don't forget that even though Berzerkers might be blood-crazed lunatics in the rulebook, that only represents how they are on the field of battle, not once the Butcher's Nails have been satiated.

That said, I doubt they have very many Apothecaries...

Overlord Krycis
07-04-2014, 17:28
He's also got a plan to keep the World Eaters from ever uniting again (for what reason, I don't think is made clear) and is going about executing that plan.

What was this in? I may have missed it...

Theis
08-04-2014, 01:39
What was this in? I may have missed it...

If I'm remembering the audio book correctly, he was killing the remaining high ranking officers of the legion, as part of an oath to Khorne, in order to cement the remaining World Eaters allegiance to the blood god. The idea being, if there's no one remaining of sufficient rank to command loyalties based on their time in service to the Empire, when they were a legion, then that frees true champions of Khorne to rise from any rank, any origin, and command his warriors.

By keeping the legion sundered, he frees his brothers from their old loyalties, their old command structure, all of which led them to a failed attack on terra, and all that came after.

I may be misremembering some of it though, listened to it last on a road trip a couple of years ago.

Sanai
08-04-2014, 03:34
Despite Khârn being portrayed for years as a raving lunatic, incapable of regular cognition outside of "KILL! MAIM! BURN!" his recent appearances in the Horus Heresy series, as well as his audiobook adventures show someone who, whilst at the mercy of his implants from time to time, is very much in control of his actions for much of the time. He even has a seneschal that follows him around at one point, whom he manages to not kill, because he finds them useful. He's also got a plan to keep the World Eaters from ever uniting again (for what reason, I don't think is made clear) and is going about executing that plan.


That was 10 thousand years ago. How sane would you be after thousands of years of endless fighting and slaughter while under the influence of cranial implants designed to drive you into a killing rage and make you addicted to killing, if you weren't even that much of a stable personality to begin with?

The only information about Kharns current mental state that is reliable is stuff set in the current timeline of the 41st millenium.

Same goes for the Alpha Legion- people assume that 40k Alpha Legion are enemies of chaos because 30k Alpha Legion were, which if you read the Chaos Codex you see it is an incorrect conlcusion.

Dr.Clock
08-04-2014, 03:41
It's not at all clear to me that Kharn did this IN ORDER to effectively disband the Legion.

Instead, it's implied that command is due only by right of prowess - that the commanders were petty, weak schemers in search of POWER rather than slaughter itself.

By eliminating the existing command structure, the likelihood of bands beginning to merge for common cause starts to increase. So yes, while the time since the Heresy has caused the WE to slip into total anarchy, the ethos of Khorne is that the strong should lead. Kharn's brutal purging of the Legion is ironically intended to improve and (potentially) unite the Legion. What he's after is a Legion who perfectly embodies the will of the Blood God.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Everto
08-04-2014, 08:47
But then the fluff contradicts itself, in the 3.5 dex it did have the quote about all World Eaters being bezerkers. But in earlier fluff wasn't the Teeth of Khorne a unit choice? A unit of havocs equipped with heavy bolters. But then I suppose this can be justified away by saying they're bezerkers in a different manner as they still spill blood.

Dr.Clock
08-04-2014, 12:31
Quite simply, if all Berzerkers are always and forever filled with insatiable bloodlust to the point that they cannot stop themselves from throwing themselves at the nearest foe, then the Legion would have essentially killed itself through internecine warfare a long, long time ago.

In battle, sure - they go off something fierce, and most especially in close quarters. And certainly, some are likely to be nothing more than frothing maniacs even at other times. Likewise, there has to be SOME killing a lot of the time in order for them to satisfy their unending hunger. However, the simple fact that "they still impart [the surgery] to those they consider worthy" (6th ed. codex) means that at least some of them are able to complete tasks other than simple slaughter. Pretty much all the flavour text about them talks about their state in battle, not on what they do in between.

Quite simply, we have to allow that World Eater Berzerkers have the ability to refrain from murder or suicide MOST OF THE TIME while not in battle. To propose anything else would mean that they would all be dead in M41, and likely long before. There's a reason that Kharn is called "The Betrayer" - it's because his attitude is markedly murderous and indiscriminate even among a Legion known for bloodlust.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Sanai
08-04-2014, 12:51
No one is arguing that berzerkers are not sometimes calm (though they become irritable/twitchy when not fighting, like an addict who hasn't had his fix).

The argument is over whether all or the majority of World Eaters are Berzerkers or not.

Also, I am not actually sure who exactly it is that does the surgery. Is it some kind of World Eaters Apothecary, or mortal serfs of some kind, or even surgical devices under World Eater supervision?

Inquisitor Engel
08-04-2014, 15:37
That was 10 thousand years ago.

Not for Khârn it wasn't.


if you weren't even that much of a stable personality to begin with?

Khârn is repeatedly shown to be one of the most measured, balanced and in-control members of the legion. He's also one of the oldest, being Terran. He's Equerry to Angron (who actually listens to his advice) and is the one who talks Angron out of just butchering his Legion upon being "saved" by the Emperor at De'shea.


The only information about Kharns current mental state that is reliable is stuff set in the current timeline of the 41st millenium.

Yes, at which point he has long, extremely philosophical moments of lucidity. http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/chosen-of-khorne-mp3.html Chosen of Khorne is set in "present" day 40k, or extremely close to it.


The argument is over whether all or the majority of World Eaters are Berzerkers or not.

As has been stated officially a number of times, "Not all Berzerkers are World Eaters, but all World Eaters are Berzerkers" has been the official GW line for some time.


Also, I am not actually sure who exactly it is that does the surgery. Is it some kind of World Eaters Apothecary, or mortal serfs of some kind, or even surgical devices under World Eater supervision?

Originally it was the Legion Apothecaries. It's entirely possible that there may still be some, though it's probably something mortal serfs can do for "recruits," from other Legions. The World Eater-based warbands don't strike me as the kind to raise up aspirants as much as absorb willing Astartes. Khorne doesn't care where your gene-seed is from!

TheFang
08-04-2014, 18:33
The old Slaves to Darkness Lost and the Damned background had the Khorne miniatures with bolters and RT had heavy weapons and WE equivalents of Tac and Devastator marines. The "All WE are Berzerkers" retcon and some of the "attack the nearest visible enemy" rules meant that Berzerkers could be easily led around the battlefield and would be on a short road to extinction. Outside of direct combat they must be able to think coherently otherwise they'd never crew a tank or ride a bike.

A World Eaters apothecary would be a very dangerous opponent. Someone who knows exactly where to strike to do maximum damage with the skill and ability to make that strike. Given the almost parasitic or symbiotic nature of the nails it seems as if any competent medical tech could almost literally whack the nails in but there must be some group to organise manufacture of the nails and the geneseed recovery and replacement. While I'd agree the majority of "fresh" traitors would tend to follow Khorne there has to be some way for the WE to replace combat losses. Even the normal resupply and rearming needs some sort of sanity otherwise the WE are hitting people with dead chainswords and armed with pistols without bullets.

Everto
08-04-2014, 19:37
I think it's safe to assume that they're still must be too some degree apothecaries within the ranks, how good they are at what they do is anyone's guess but they achieve a basic level of success or the knowledge behind the procedure would have died out.

Inquisitor Engel
08-04-2014, 19:42
The old Slaves to Darkness Lost and the Damned background had the Khorne miniatures with bolters and RT had heavy weapons and WE equivalents of Tac and Devastator marines. The "All WE are Berzerkers" retcon and some of the "attack the nearest visible enemy" rules meant that Berzerkers could be easily led around the battlefield and would be on a short road to extinction. Outside of direct combat they must be able to think coherently otherwise they'd never crew a tank or ride a bike.

Exactly. I think people are getting too caught up on how Berzerkers as a unit act in-game and how someone who calls oneself (or has been deigned to be) a Berzerker in-universe.

Lord Damocles
08-04-2014, 20:39
The fact that the 'all Berzerkers all the time' 3.5 World Eaters list included Marines doing things other than waving chainaxes and foaming at the mouth, proves that Berzerkers can/could do other things.

=Angel=
09-04-2014, 04:25
It's confusing because we think of berzerkers as a unit rather than berzerkers as recipients of the surgeries.

It's fairly easy to picture a world eater screaming 'kill maim burn' while firing a bolter on full auto.

Particularly because berzerker units don't get flamers.

Hell yeah heavy bolter worldeaters.

Everto
09-04-2014, 08:24
It's confusing because we think of berzerkers as a unit rather than berzerkers as recipients of the surgeries.

It's fairly easy to picture a world eater screaming 'kill maim burn' while firing a bolter on full auto.

Particularly because berzerker units don't get flamers.

Hell yeah heavy bolter worldeaters.

But then say I was to give a havoc unit 4 flamers, in game they're not bezerkers but in universe they are. This is where the problem is steming from, differentiation from in game and in universe.

Dr.Clock
09-04-2014, 12:14
Precisely... if we submit that Berzerkers are not ALL RAGE ALL THE TIME, then there is room to interpret individual WE units as having load-outs and abilities not reflected in the single Berzerkers unit entry...

This is precisely the problem that Chaos players of all stripes fall into all too often IMO: the insistence that the army list units, and the marked and cult units in particular should serve as a severe limitation in thematic list design.

I've been thinking the last couple days, in fact, of putting together a unit of Khorne's Teeth using counts-as Necron Immortals.

- They have a marine stat line except for I2, which would be covered effectively by the fact that they're wielding HBs

- Gauss Blasters are effectively rapid-fire HBs, which accounts for their hulk-out ability to fire said HBs from the hip

- Reanimation Protocols is easily represented by the fact the Butcher's Nails supposedly allow them to 'ignore wounds that would disable even a conventional marine' even though this has never had an in-game effect. I LOVE the idea of a dude falling over momentarily after taking a bolted round in the chest only to get back up and keep firing his HB.

And Bob's your uncle - a dedicated midrange, semi-mobile shooting unit to walk up behind a cultist screen and plink away at light transports and medium infantry.

Heck, while you're at it, why not take a unit of possessed Raptors as Wraiths - mount them on 40mm bases give them each a pair of chain axes (makes sense for their higher S and lower I if we use power axes as a precedent), and you've got a unit far closer to what I envision Khornate Warpclaws to be. Hell, even give a few of them gladiatorial nets and spears to count as whip coils...

In sum, I'd argue that in order to fill out a faction whose fluff only part-way matches the things available in a codex, we should never be afraid to look elsewhere if it allows us to come up with a more-or-equally fluffy and more viable list.

I love building my dedicated Khorne force, but I also like building unique units and not spamming any more than I have to. I'm highly unlikely to ever want more than 2 units of CC Berzerkers, because I like the CHAOS of Chaos.

Anway... I know we're pretty much OT now, but I appreciate the discussion nonetheless.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Lord Damocles
09-04-2014, 20:13
I've been thinking the last couple days, in fact, of putting together a unit of Khorne's Teeth using counts-as Necron Immortals.
Why not as actual Havoks with actual Heavy Bolters and actual Mark of Khorne...?

=Angel=
09-04-2014, 21:52
Why not as actual Havoks with actual Heavy Bolters and actual Mark of Khorne...?

Because as it is written the Mark of Khorne doesn't affect shooting.
You'd be giving them attacks in close combat- where you don't want them to be.

This is not the place for codex whining but there's a huge disconnect between what servants of Khorne can do in the background and what they do on the tabletop.

A Khorne marine should be a crazed gunman, favouring rate of fire or strength of impact weapons that can produce a lot of kills.
Maybe a rule like the Templar's kill them all- passing a reduced ld test to fire at anything but the closest target.
Or to not fire- a worldeater should find stealth really difficult- in a mission with sentries or whatever, trying to move forward without killing should be a constant mental battle.

At any rate, a world eater with a boltgun should be different in some way than an ultramarine with a boltgun. That difference imho should not be +1 A

Dr.Clock
10-04-2014, 06:22
Yeah... the Immortal idea is to reflect the fact that Khorne will favour those who CLOSE with the enemy and deliver death right in the face of the opposing forces. I usually want my Khorne force to operate as a tidal wave of angry... units advancing relentlessly, facing down all opposition through sheer power.

To be clear - these blokes are intended to be essentially Berzerkers... unlikely to simply camp out on a hill or the top of a ruin, they throw caution to the wind and advance, laying down withering fire from massive, high rate of fire weapons, daring the enemy to come near.

On the table, I think it'll help a Khorne list get more than two effective troop units. While I love my Berzerkers and Beastmen cultists, that makes for a pretty limited 'pallet'... added to this, it gives you something that can effectively dominate an objective and still do something - I like my cultists and Berzerkers to close into assault, so some kind of effective shooting in a Troops slot fills a clear role in the list. I've toyed with either MoK CSMs or using Chosen through Black Legion, but neither is quite to my liking.

There are plenty of instances I've seen of people using Necrons for Admech and the like - so I think I'm still within the realm of the 'conceivable' with this idea - especially if we're realistically only looking at maybe 2 troops lead by Necron Lords. Added to this, there are other units in the Necrons list that lend themselves well to Dark Mech engines (Stalker? Anni Barge? C'Tan as 'ForgeLord'?). As I tend to want dual Maulerfiends and Oblits pretty routinely, a dedicated shooting ally contingent really picks up the slack in the larger lists I tend to play (2.5k+).

Of course, for now I'm still working on my CSM + Daemons... and I have rudimentary designs on Khornate Orks, who fluff-wise I'm going to have 'sharing' the Space Hulk that my marines call home.

All in all, as I've said, I really like the CHAOS of chaos... as a result, I view the CSM codex as a starting point - a foundation for realizing the 'true' zaniness of our warp-borne friends.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.