PDA

View Full Version : Dan's Weekly Poll #7: Which Lore Would You Change?



Lord Dan
08-04-2014, 23:04
You've been hired by the GW design team to rework the Lores of Magic for Warhammer 9th edition. There's a catch, though: you're only allowed to change a single Lore. Within that Lore you can change anything you want - spells, casting values, lore attribute, etc., however all of the other Lores will be worked on by other team members, and there's therefore no guarantee that they'll see any change between editions. Given this, which Lore would you choose to work on?

Please take a moment to answer the poll, above.

ArtificerArmour
08-04-2014, 23:21
Death. Its attribute is a bit rediculous, Id perhaps say you get one pd per character killed (lifes cheap, only a worthy souls death would increase the winds of death). That or the caster gains a wound for each model he kills through spells, upto his starting ammount)

kylek2235
08-04-2014, 23:33
Officially, my vote is go to a scaling miscast chart, as that's the real problem. Shadow edges out Death for specific lore changes for me though.

MOMUS
09-04-2014, 02:02
Fire I choose you! Would change it to something like the following:

LORE OF MOMUS

Sig: manifold missiles of mourn lvl 5 30
2d6 S2 hits. if a double is rolled, roll a further 2D6 hits
unit that suffers wounds is -1Ld until spell ceases

1: momus' matchless machinations lvl 7 hex range 24
Enemy unit in combat must swap one stat with your unit (ws/i/a)
can be boosted to affect all three lvl 11

2: malevolent macabre mauling lvl 6 direct damage range 12
snipe spell, target chosen must immediately fight a round of combat against itself.
Boost for range 24 lvl 10

3: marvellously malicious mojo lvl 7 hex range 18
targets movement value is reduced by d6 (min 1)

4: magnificent magical masculinisations lvl 8 augment range 18
target may make an additional move as if it had not moved in the movement phase.

5: momentary manic madness lvl 10 direct damage range 24
target suffers d6 S4 hits no armour save
target may not use inspiring presence until next spell ceases

6: mighty magenta maelstroms of MOMUS special lvl 14 range 24
pick a point in range, place small template and scatter 1D6. The template counts as impassable terrain and blocks line of sight.
boost for larger template lvl 19

Lord Dan
09-04-2014, 02:09
I have to admit, I'm a bit surprised the word "magma" didn't show up somewhere in there. ;)

Sinsigel
09-04-2014, 09:03
Officially, my vote is go to a scaling miscast chart, as that's the real problem. Shadow edges out Death for specific lore changes for me though.

I concur. Miscast table seems too forgiving for blowing out entire unit of low-I models or sending lv4 wizards to oblivion with one strength test.
I would also get rid of the "double sixes and the total dice value doesn't matter" rule if I could.

If I were to change magic system, I'd rather focuse on modifying spells that remove models with no saves allowed, instead of specific lore.
But if I have to choose one lore, I'd pick life. Pit of Shades allows no saves, but at least it scatters and allows LoS.
Purple Sun doesn't scatter but it also allows LoS and the casting wizard has to be fairly close to the target for maximum effect.
Single dwellers not only removes half to one-thirds of a unit but also removes expensive casters and characters with no saves and LoS allowed.

I do realize dwellers below is a good countermeasure against deathstars and character-stars, but I think it should at least allow characters(if not rank-and-file models)
to take a single ward save. I just hope dwellers become similar to new dark magic 6th spell(insta-kill spell allowing single ward save) if next edition comes out.

Lorm
09-04-2014, 10:25
I concur. Miscast table seems too forgiving for blowing out entire unit of low-I models or sending lv4 wizards to oblivion with one strength test.
I would also get rid of the "double sixes and the total dice value doesn't matter" rule if I could.

If I were to change magic system, I'd rather focuse on modifying spells that remove models with no saves allowed, instead of specific lore.
But if I have to choose one lore, I'd pick life. Pit of Shades allows no saves, but at least it scatters and allows LoS.
Purple Sun doesn't scatter but it also allows LoS and the casting wizard has to be fairly close to the target for maximum effect.
Single dwellers not only removes half to one-thirds of a unit but also removes expensive casters and characters with no saves and LoS allowed.

I do realize dwellers below is a good countermeasure against deathstars and character-stars, but I think it should at least allow characters(if not rank-and-file models)
to take a single ward save. I just hope dwellers become similar to new dark magic 6th spell(insta-kill spell allowing single ward save) if next edition comes out.
Agree, but remember that if you take out instant-death spells (and btw i absolutely agree that it should be done) wizards won't be that scary anymore, meaning that having a too severe miscast table could be nerfing them too much. (like GW always do, they seem do overnerfing everytime they have something to nerf...)

Anyway i voted Heavens, super cool lore in my opinion, but pretty disappointing to play now, i would try to make it much more interesting :) (but never overpowered)
If i could choose a non-rulebook lore i would instead choose Tzeentch, another extremely cool lore with great potential and crazy/strange spells, that is now very disappointing and boring... :(

Spider-pope
09-04-2014, 10:45
None of the above. The lore in most desperate need of change is the Lore of Athel Loren.

Kakapo42
09-04-2014, 12:33
None of the above. The lore in most desperate need of change is the Lore of Athel Loren.

Not the Lore of the Wild?

Snake1311
09-04-2014, 13:39
Lore of the Wild is actually decent. Viletide is good, especially when combined with rerolls to wound, traitorkin wrecks MCs; devolve, scream and mantle are OK in certain situations.

I'd go death, even though dwellers on its own makes life a strong second contender. Lore attribute is OTT when combined with PSun, PSun is OTT itself, spirit leech keeps changing due to 'unmodified Ld' not really being defined properly, and aspect of the dreadknight is virtually never ever used.

duffybear1988
09-04-2014, 13:46
If I can't change Athel Loren then it would have to be Heavens as it's just so bland.

SuperHappyTime
09-04-2014, 19:07
If I can't change Athel Loren then it would have to be Heavens as it's just so bland.

I'd rename the Lore of Heavens into the Lore of Storms so my wizards could be badass.

Mozzamanx
09-04-2014, 19:32
I'd change Fire personally, because it's consistently been both the coolest and the most mediocre BRB Lore since I started. I think that the concept of an 'artillery' Lore is fine, it's simply undergunned. A Magic Missile should be capable of creating the same level of carnage as a Withering or Dwellers if they share the same casting value.

To that end, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the Lore starting at S5 rather than S4. Increased damage across the board, maybe tweak the Attribute so that subsequent castings cause D6 S4 hits as well as the bonus to spellcasting, to really reward burying an enemy under massed amounts of firepower. I don't think you'd even need to change the actual spells, just increase the damage output.

@allmyownbattles
09-04-2014, 20:58
None of the above. The lore in most desperate need of change is the Lore of Athel Loren.

Yep, it's awful. Definitely worse than Lore of the Wild.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Maoriboy007
09-04-2014, 21:45
The Miscast table doesn't need to be harsher, its plenty hard on a TK Liche priest or Goblin Shaman , for example. Its just a couple of spells that are too high value at the moment and probably still would be regardless of the harshness of miscasting, if you can devastate whole sections of your opponents army with a single spell then no miscast table could be harsh enough. Attacking the Miscast table seems backward to me, especially when it affects totally reasonable lores (Waagh, Nehekara, Fire) equally as harshly as the broken ones. You could simply reorganise the current miscast results so that they scale to the amount of dice rolled and have every result cause an automatic wound on the caster and that's as harsh as it would actually need to be.

kylek2235
09-04-2014, 22:01
The Miscast table doesn't need to be harsher, its plenty hard on a TK Liche priest or Goblin Shaman , for example. Its just a couple of spells that are too high value at the moment and probably still would be regardless of the harshness of miscasting, if you can devastate whole sections of your opponents army with a single spell then no miscast table could be harsh enough. Attacking the Miscast table seems backward to me, especially when it affects totally reasonable lores (Waagh, Nehekara, Fire) equally as harshly as the broken ones. You could simply reorganise the current miscast results so that they scale to the amount of dice rolled and have every result cause an automatic wound on the caster and that's as harsh as it would actually need to be.

Sigh

What about a table that scales to the number of dice you use, like say, the Steam Tank misfire chart. The current one is too harsh for two dicing spells and not harsh enough for 6 dicing them.

Mozzamanx
09-04-2014, 22:34
How about, roll a D6 and then add the number of dice used in the attempt. You'd therefore have a table ranging from 3-12, with the cheaper spells being totally incapable of rolling higher than an 8. You'd then have free reign to make the 12 result utterly ruinous without hurting the innocent Liches and Goblins.

Maoriboy007
09-04-2014, 23:52
Sigh

What about a table that scales to the number of dice you use, like say, the Steam Tank misfire chart. The current one is too harsh for two dicing spells and not harsh enough for 6 dicing them.While it wouldn't be a bad idea, you'd still be just as well off fixing the one or two problem spells first. Compare skull storm and Purple sun. Both require the same amount of dice, but Purple sun is still way overpowered compared to skullstorm, yet a miscast punishes both equally, in that light a harsher miscast table doesn't necessarily scale well, and as it is now people are throwing 6 dice happy to risk a potentially disastrous miscast anyway, there are currently bad results on the miscast table, yet its profitable to brave them regardless. Yes, while it'd be nice to have a table that scales like the steamtank one, I still find the approach backward for not fixing the most important problem first.

While all the BRB lores need a tweak , I'd probably start with death, as per the original post.

zunjinto
10-04-2014, 08:55
Lore of the wild. Half the spells need fixes so that they are even playable.

Spider-pope
10-04-2014, 09:41
Lore of the wild. Half the spells need fixes so that they are even playable.

Still better than the Lore of Athel Loren, where ALL of the spells need fixes. Seriously, i'm a Beastman player. I know the Lore of the Wild is less than stellar. But then i decided to use a 500 point Wood Elf army in a tournie and discovered the utterly useless Lore Wood Elf players have been stuck with for a decade.
And unlike the Beastmen, they can't even choose a different Lore for their mages.

Urgat
10-04-2014, 10:32
All of them, bring them back to AB lore models. Removing autokills, ignoring ward saves, etc. Also improving the spells that everybody ignores for obvious reasons. When you look at your spell list, you should ponder about what you're gonna cast, and not just go "I got Razor, why bother with anything else?"


Officially, my vote is go to a scaling miscast chart, as that's the real problem. Shadow edges out Death for specific lore changes for me though.

And of course there's that. I think I've repeated myself enough already so that people are sick of reading me explaining what I'd do again :p

Metacarpi
10-04-2014, 11:40
I don't think I'd change any specific lore. What I would like to see the back of are spells that "remove models as a casualty" without any sort of save. As on Ogre Kingdoms player, those spells hurt.

I'd also like to see a scaling miscast chart, prefereably with more devastating results for 5 and 6 dicing spells.

Zombie P
10-04-2014, 16:42
I have to agree with whoever said make heavans more interesting.

ZP

Timathius
10-04-2014, 17:03
I have to agree with whoever said make heavans more interesting.

ZP

same

Though if nehekara was a choice i would have chosen that, looking at the vampire lore and then that pile of garbage is cringeworthy

Spider-pope
10-04-2014, 18:18
same

Though if nehekara was a choice i would have chosen that, looking at the vampire lore and then that pile of garbage is cringeworthy

Main change i would make to the Nehekara lore is to their attribute. Make it regain wounds after casting any spell, and suddenly the Tomb Kings become way more effective. I've been using that as a house rule in the Warhammer campaign i've been running, and it's worked well so far.

Spiney Norman
10-04-2014, 19:11
Of the 8 battle magic lores I would overhaul life because it is at once both one of the strongest and weakest lores in the game. Its main problems are the OP 6 spell and the rest of the lore's utter dependency on throne to be worth casting.

Tone down dwellers to affect d3 models (or D6 models in horde formation) per rank and make it cause a wound with no AS allowed instead of auto-removal.

Alltaken
10-04-2014, 20:14
Of the brb, heavens ugh I hated being stuck with it forma skinks

From my servoskull

Spiney Norman
10-04-2014, 20:44
Of the brb, heavens ugh I hated being stuck with it forma skinks

From my servoskull

You know it amazes me how many people don't realise what an amazing lore beasts is for Lizardmen...

Alltaken
10-04-2014, 20:46
You know it amazes me how many people don't realise what an amazing lore beasts is for Lizardmen...

Forgot to mention that was for 7th :P
I love beasts, wysans is more or less my favourite spell ever hahaha.

From my servoskull

Imperator64
10-04-2014, 23:09
Death because of sniping.