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View Full Version : Are skavens on the top ranks in tournament nowadays?



Sinsigel
09-04-2014, 08:03
I might have missed most of the tournament results(esp. uncomped) out there, but lately I've been getting an impression
that skavens surprisingly don't perform as well as I expected. Ludicrously cheap cannon fodder(aka slaves), tons of magical template shooting attacks
and T-test spells which excel at erasing infantry and cavalry, high and reliable leadership, devastating warmachines(although not THAT great in monster hunting),
and the A-bomb. Add in the storm banner and the opposing army will struggle to remove key combat models easily, even if they are empire or dwarfs.

And most importantly, all of these great assets can be taken altogether at once leisurely at 2.5K+ pts. A cheap, numerous hordes army that can theoretically deal with almost
everything at tournaments : now that's what i would call "top-tier" army tournaments. Yet I haven't seen much skaven players dominating top ranks at tournaments.
Most tournaments results I've observed showed large number of WoC players and rather equal mixture of other races. But skavens didn't come out conspicuously.
And this is something I've always wondered whenever I took a peak at tournament results.
So, to summarize the question, are skavens considered to be top-tier armies(like they were in the last years of 7th ed.) in tournaments(esp. uncomped, I emphasize)?
Or are they not that overwhelming?


P.S. On a side note, Empire list with Lv4 Life mage backed up by warmachines, dual steam tank and several units of demigryphs also seem incredibly brutal.
Any idea how these lists perform on tournaments?

ArtificerArmour
09-04-2014, 08:33
Theyre just dull and true tourny players would prefer the 30+ warrior chariot spam to the 300+ slavebuss lists.

I honestly have never enjoyed playing against skaven. Its dull, open to abuse of rules (theres too much weird and whacky tables) and takes an age to play. I think true tournent winners have the ability to win with an army that isnt random and is quicker and more fun (to play and to paint)

Bingo the Fun Monkey
09-04-2014, 16:07
What about the wacky randomness of Orcs and Goblins? Are they also highly abusable due to their wacky tables? Do "true" tournament winners stay away from them as well?

Also, plenty of Skaven players don't spam slaves.

Folomo
09-04-2014, 16:19
Well, O&G are definitely not top tournament winners. The randomness of their rules means they have a high chance of losing at least one game just on die, which you just cant accept for a top tier list.
The same applies to Skaven. Auto-winning two games, winning two games based on skill and auto lossing one game is just not acceptably for a tourney winner. You need to aim to win 5 games.
Also, the O&G "wacky" rules don't conflict with the basic rules as much as the skaven "wacky" rules do (like shooting into close combat, ignoring obstacles with their cannons, their magic ignoring tons of basic magic rules, etc) which is the main problem and abuse that skaven cause.

And there may be Skaven players who don't spam slaves, the same as some skaven players dont use the A-Bomb or their cannons. Not using the best models in your book is viable, but probably not the best plan if you want to win a tournament.


And what is "fun" or "boring" definitely varies.
I don't enjoy an all all-chariot-all-monster WoC list.
I find them extremely boring and dull, without mentioning the lack of any list-building skill in them.
Also, I don't feel like fighting a real army when the opponent list consist of less than 40 models. 300 models may be too much, but it still feels like fighting an army. 30 models just doesn't make it for me.

boli
10-04-2014, 00:23
The problem with skaven is if you bring the fun toys, people moan and complain you are power gaming; but if you leave them all at home you are basically left with rat Ogres and Clan Rats... And that's about it.

I'm guessing a lot of players just got sick of hearing every win being put down to broken toys and every loss "deserved".

Kahadras
10-04-2014, 00:48
Skaven are still a pretty good tournament army. They get Slaves which are probably the best tar pit unit around and have the added benefit that the Skaven player can shoot into combat. They get a couple of nice one shot weapons which can be taken by cheap Warlock Engineers which can cause a lot of damage if you roll well if you miss then it's no major loss. Their Warp lightning cannon is a steal for it's points cost. The rat dart is a solid, cheap redirector. This isn't even looking at things like the A-bomb. Currently WoC appear to be the top tournament army and I think one of the reasons is that it's cheaper to collect/easier to paint than a Skaven army.

Rhellion
10-04-2014, 12:06
I did pretty well at Adepticon. The last scenario had rules to end the game early, and if I would have gotten a 5th turn (only got 4) I could have placed 4th overall out of 150 players. I definitely would have won if I got the full 6 turns. With the loss I still got 22/150 as the highest placing Skaven. First scenario also had special rules which blew up my Grey Seer first spell, along with 20 Storm Vermin.

I still think they are competitive. I played DoC, WoC, Dwarfs, Dwarfs, and Empire... Nurgle, Nurgle Chariots w Tzeentch magic, 3 Dwarf blocks Strollaz, balanced Dwarfs with 2 cannons, and 3 units of Demi's w Light Council. I ran double Grey Seer with a power scoll and Storm Vermin horde w Assassins. Abom, Wheel, double Cannon.

Lorm
10-04-2014, 12:51
The problem with skaven is if you bring the fun toys, people moan and complain you are power gaming; but if you leave them all at home you are basically left with rat Ogres and Clan Rats... And that's about it.

I'm guessing a lot of players just got sick of hearing every win being put down to broken toys and every loss "deserved".
It's been a while (some months) since i played a big tournament, but everytime i saw a skaven player he had the same damn list with little to none variations. It gets pretty boring when everyone play just "the fun toys", while if a skaven player try to effectively play clan rats and such, or at least make a themed army, he has my respect for sure.

Skaven still (as far as i know and heard) as competitive as always, maybe their biggest problem is that everyone now prepares to face them and know the tricks they can use, they're known and expected; also very expensive (money and time) to play, a lot of models...

Orcs and Goblins aren't considered competitive just because you can lose to bad rolls, but the chances aren't so high and instead i believe they make for a bit overpowered army.
As an Empire player i don't see it very competitive except for a couple of builds, but even then there is an insane amount of effective counters to them (tarpitting steam tanks, sniping wizards, etc...)
WoC are less expensive to play, a powerful army that does a lot of damage and they have a couple of overpowered tools (for example the daemon prince), don't know if it's going to change though, more and more people expect and prepare to face them and their daemon prince.