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View Full Version : Naestra and Arahan on Gwindalor



some_scrub
03-05-2014, 15:01
How the heck does this work? My understanding is that mounting them on Gwindalor makes them monstrous cav, so they use Gwindalor's T and W stats. Does this mean that the first half of Conjoined Destiny just doesn't work then? Also can you use the ability from the Talon of Dawn if they're on the eagle?

Mr_Rose
03-05-2014, 20:36
Isn't Gwindalor a dragon? As in a Monster?
How would that make them monstrous cavalry?

They're characters mounted on a monster; see BRB pp.105-106, starting from "Rideen Monsters" for how that works.

Knifeparty
03-05-2014, 20:39
No, Gwindalor is an eagle. Therefore they are monstrous Cavalry.

And I was also wondering how this works. Do they use the eagles wounds (3) and toughness (4) for both of their profiles. Do they randomize between the two girls to see if one of them dies and not the other? It's confusing. They need an immediate FAQ.

Mr_Rose
03-05-2014, 20:46
Right, that's messed up then. Hmm. Clearly someone in head office still thinks it's fifth edition….

Masque
03-05-2014, 20:50
Just thought I should point out that the rules for Monstrous Cavalry have zero interaction with Toughness, only Wounds.

Tae
03-05-2014, 21:07
Just thought I should point out that the rules for Monstrous Cavalry have zero interaction with Toughness, only Wounds.

The BRB FAQ says otherwise.

Mr_Rose
03-05-2014, 21:10
Just thought I should point out that the rules for Monstrous Cavalry have zero interaction with Toughness, only Wounds.

Check the BRB rules update again; monstrous cav were errata'd to use the highest toughness as well.

orionwoodking
04-05-2014, 08:44
I am not sure if I am misinterpreting the rules but at the moment, it counts as a single model, which as such can only make one shooting attack?

forseer of fates
04-05-2014, 11:08
Very good spot, indeed they will be a single model and would require a special rule to let them fire both bows lol, terrible.

Odin
07-05-2014, 10:43
I am not sure if I am misinterpreting the rules but at the moment, it counts as a single model, which as such can only make one shooting attack?

On a slight tangent to this, when on the Dragon, I assume they always have to fire at the same target as each other (and the breath weapon too if it's being used)? No way to target one bow at a monster and the other at a unit?

As for the main question, I'd probably houserule it to say any shooting hits are randomised between the sisters, and they both use the S and T value of the eagle. Where that leaves the bow's healing ability I don't know! Possibly the most blatant example of "we didn't even playtest this once" that I've ever seen from GW.

orionwoodking
07-05-2014, 12:01
I think that this book was designed for the new edition that could be potentially coming later in the year. The lack of errata's and easily fixable inconsistencies with the books and the rules etc. I think that in 9th ed the sisters will work fine

furrie
07-05-2014, 12:24
On a slight tangent to this, when on the Dragon, I assume they always have to fire at the same target as each other (and the breath weapon too if it's being used)? No way to target one bow at a monster and the other at a unit?

As for the main question, I'd probably houserule it to say any shooting hits are randomised between the sisters, and they both use the S and T value of the eagle. Where that leaves the bow's healing ability I don't know! Possibly the most blatant example of "we didn't even playtest this once" that I've ever seen from GW.

It looks like they count as 1 unit and as such they need to fire at the same target

Lord Dan
08-05-2014, 06:51
Well, if they're "one unit" they actually can't both fire.

furrie
08-05-2014, 07:13
Well, if they're "one unit" they actually can't both fire.

That is only true if its 1 model, otherwise when you have a unit of archers only one of them could fire.

Wesser
08-05-2014, 07:58
Why are people discussing this now? What have you been doing with Sisters since 8th started?

With the introduction of 8th and the new rules for Monstrous Beasts the rules for Sisters changed.

With the new book the absolutely only that's changed is that it longer specifically says the Sisters (and Dragon if it's there) can shoot at different targets. That's all, so the only problem is that the old issue wasn't cleared up.


The Sisters are pretty unique in that one model (Ridden rules) have three profiles. But there really isn't a basis for anything else than Eagle Sisters being Two T4, W3 profiles. No, it isn't covered specifically in the Rulebook, so I can't argue it directly, but anything else is pretty much annihilating half their special rules, so this is a case of no RAW, but an easy RAI.


And of course they can both fire. Arguing that point is nit-picking. Would you say that a Glade Lord on a Dragon can't fire his bow if the Dragon uses it's breath weapon? I don't need the rulebook to discount blatant nonsense

Lord Dan
08-05-2014, 08:09
You're reading far too much into my comment, and it's probably my fault for not being more clear.

I'm certainly not advocating that the ladies shouldn't both be able to fire, only highlighting the earlier point about single models only having a single shot. This is controversial no matter how you approach it.

For instance, your work around of having both Sisters have 3W and T4 is already problematic - not only in that it isn't specifically covered by the rules, but in the fact that one could just as easily argue that they should all count as a single, 3W T4 model.

orionwoodking
08-05-2014, 08:23
With the new edition the old FAQ was removed, and is no longer applicable. There was a fairly large section that 'fixed' the sisters in it, but the rules cant really be carried over in the same way, unless of course your opponent agrees :P

Aranel
08-05-2014, 11:35
You're reading far too much into my comment, and it's probably my fault for not being more clear.

I'm certainly not advocating that the ladies shouldn't both be able to fire, only highlighting the earlier point about single models only having a single shot. This is controversial no matter how you approach it.

For instance, your work around of having both Sisters have 3W and T4 is already problematic - not only in that it isn't specifically covered by the rules, but in the fact that one could just as easily argue that they should all count as a single, 3W T4 model.

I had a very long debate with a friend of mine about this very issue, myself arguing the former and him the latter. Ultimately, trying to navigate the murky waters of RAW and RAI is going to be very difficult without GW shedding some light on a pretty unique case that the rulebook simply does not cover. I look forward to them doing so soon, but won't be holding my breath!

Wesser
08-05-2014, 11:43
With the new edition the old FAQ was removed, and is no longer applicable. There was a fairly large section that 'fixed' the sisters in it, but the rules cant really be carried over in the same way, unless of course your opponent agrees :P

Hardly. If I recall it was just their equipment (spear & LA) as well as Gwindalor being a Monstrous Beast that was clarified

The rules are unclear, but then they are unclear in a lot of unusual situations. I've actually had a Vampire Lord flee rather than crumble because he had joined a unit of allied Chaos Warriors.


But really. What is the purpose of arguing for one profile rather than 2? Or for them just shooting one bow? There's no RAW either way to cover it, and I've rarely seen a clearer RAI. Indeed the unit have barely changed, and no one's had problems before. Do you think any opponent will argue this point?

Odin
08-05-2014, 12:13
Why are people discussing this now? What have you been doing with Sisters since 8th started

...nothing at all. In fact, I've pretty much been doing nothing with WE since 8th.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Wesser
08-05-2014, 12:20
...nothing at all. In fact, I've pretty much been doing nothing with WE since 8th.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

That's shame

If you ever ran a Spellsinger with a Deepwood Sphere into a wood containing 40 White Lions you'd know...

Wesser
08-05-2014, 12:36
Double Post