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View Full Version : "Hawk-eyed Archer" special rule / Sniper shot



kokodrilo
03-05-2014, 19:52
Hi,

Can the waystalker combine "hawk eyed archer" and "sniper shot"?

Can he make twice sniper shots?
Can he make one sniper shot with no armor save?

Thank u

TheKingInYellow
04-05-2014, 00:17
Hi,

Can the waystalker combine "hawk eyed archer" and "sniper shot"?

Can he make twice sniper shots?
Can he make one sniper shot with no armor save?

Thank u

Yes he can, why wouldn't he?

Dasi
04-05-2014, 11:11
Yes he can, why wouldn't he?

Yes, my feelings exactly. But in Spanish forums theer's all this rumbling about whether you can make more than one single Sniper shot or not.

forseer of fates
04-05-2014, 11:22
Ofc you can, the witch hunter can with a brace of pistols and ive never seen anyone grumble about that, who cares about some s3 arrows hitting something, you can always put stuff in front, then it would be at worst moving, long range, shooting through a unit, and sniper, so that's -5.

Mr_Rose
04-05-2014, 11:25
True but at Ballistic Skill 7 he's still hitting on a 5+ with that modifier, or better than many regular archers average during a game….

forseer of fates
04-05-2014, 11:32
Aye, but I guess its up to what agreement you and your opponent come up with atm, since gw are sleepy sleepy on the faq front. I cant believe they have not proof read it better. Some good examples are the sisters of twilight, looks like they cant fire both their bows, and does Orion get to use the fancy spear in combat.

MasterSplinter
04-05-2014, 11:53
For apology of the GW design team i think its fair to say that the crowd will always find a glitch which is exploitable if a person wants to do it. IMO that comes more to the maturity of ones mind to deal with this stuff.

On topic, i donīt know how one could come to the assumption that you canīt do several sniper shots with the waystalker as the rules in the (german) brb state that you can exchange your normal shooting to sniper shooting with a -1 modifier for that. It nowhere states that it has to be a single shot.

T10
06-05-2014, 12:55
As far as I can tell, a model may either...

* Fire a normal shot.
* Fire using the Multiple Shots special rule (this instead of firing a normal shot).
* Fire using the Sniper special rule (this instead of firing a normal shot).

Still, that's only what I got from reading the rules. I know some disagree.

I am sure your local gaming group can come to a decision on wether stacking Multiple Shots + Sniper is a good idea or not. Players that lose their level 4 wizards in a single turn may have a thing or two to say on the issue.

-T10

Da GoBBo
06-05-2014, 19:22
That's how I read it too :(

Voss
06-05-2014, 20:38
For apology of the GW design team i think its fair to say that the crowd will always find a glitch which is exploitable if a person wants to do it. IMO that comes more to the maturity of ones mind to deal with this stuff.

On topic, i donīt know how one could come to the assumption that you canīt do several sniper shots with the waystalker as the rules in the (german) brb state that you can exchange your normal shooting to sniper shooting with a -1 modifier for that. It nowhere states that it has to be a single shot.
Hmm. In the English rules Sniper provides 'a Sniper shot' which is inherently singular, and constantly referred to as singular throughout the text of Sniper, though admittedly it doesn't explicitly say may only make one attack, it is always 'a sniper shot'.

MasterSplinter
06-05-2014, 20:41
@ T10: Thatīs not how i read it. In the german rule book it states (translated exact wording): "A modell can decide to do a sniper shot instead of to shoot normal" thats a difference to a "normal shot" as the letter one leaves still room for interpretation if it means a single shot or the whole shooting of a modell. To me its relativly evident that the wording "instead of shoot normal" stands for the shooting phase of the moell itself and all actions it joins together.

That beside what sense would there be in a character like the waystalker? The whole surrounding with the special rule to ignore armour saves and the rules for the bow of loren, its pricing and its ruletext speak the language as if it was implied as that it works together.
I must say that i clearly count myself to the rules as interpreted faction, even if this may cause some discussion its relativly simple to come to an accord with your opponent - if you assume common sense and switch off the button to only think in ones own profit.

Donīt get me wrong! I donīt want to put anyone who goes the way of raw in the basket of beeing selfish and lack of common sense, the opposite is the case i welcome the debate of raw as the rules and their correctness are the basement for a functional game.

MasterSplinter
06-05-2014, 20:44
Ok, voss, maybe then iīll have to get my hands on an english book to back that up (not that i donīt believe you). Its still a closed case for me and my gaming group, as long as we got a Keeper running around wearing an ASF-sword on his belt, striking with rerollable attacks at +d3 S I and A. Oh, i forgot, thats raw.

Da GoBBo
07-05-2014, 13:17
Hmm. In the English rules Sniper provides 'a Sniper shot' which is inherently singular, and constantly referred to as singular throughout the text of Sniper, though admittedly it doesn't explicitly say may only make one attack, it is always 'a sniper shot'.

Actually it does say that very explicitly, or do you want to argue that when you mother used to tell you could get a cooky, that meant you had free roam of the cookyjar? I don't know about the intend of this rule, but it's clearly singular.

The only way out I see is to propose an argument which says multishot and ignore armour aren't covered by 'shooting normally', and as such it's not the options for multishot or ignore armour that are replaced by snipershots.

Rake
09-05-2014, 13:06
Whats the ASF Keeper with D3? Deamon Keeper of Secrets with the deamon weapon?

Lord Dan
09-05-2014, 19:21
The real question is whether or not he can fire his "Armor Piercing" shot through the Bow of Loren...

MasterSplinter
09-05-2014, 20:22
Whats the ASF Keeper with D3? Deamon Keeper of Secrets with the deamon weapon?

Yes, its a Keeper of Secrets with deamon weapon and asf sword.


The real question is whether or not he can fire his "Armor Piercing" shot through the Bow of Loren...

Do you really need to make it even more complicated :P
What do you mean by armour piercing? If you mean the armour piering rule indeed i guess he can use it as the BoL is an asrai longbow.
What are the arguments for not making use of the "hawk-eyed archer" special rule for ignoring armour saves when using the BoL, if you mean that? I donīt see that there is confusion as with the multiple-shot aspect of the "hawk-eyed archer" special rule and BoL.

Mr_Rose
09-05-2014, 20:43
Hawk-eyed applies when the model makes "a shooting attack" and I see no way to claim the bow of Loren doesn't make "a shooting attack" so it must work, surely?
Admittedly, it's not the armour piercing rule being tacked on (redundant with any asrai longbow anyway) but it's still an additional rule being applied to any shooting attack.

olderplayer
09-05-2014, 21:04
The sniper shot should be able to use the Asrai Long-bow the model is equipped with and the Hawk-eye special rule applies since it is a shooting attack. The replace normal shooting with a sniper shot is singular in the BRB in English, so that would appear to preclude using the multishot ability.

orionwoodking
10-05-2014, 09:10
Honestly I think that he can combine the Hawk-eyed Archer rule with the Sniper rule. My definition of a normal shot one that you have not voluntarily made better.
Due to the fact you are not given the option to shoot basically (i.e. without the hawk-eyed archer rule), the now modified shooting attack is the most basic one the model can make, and therefore it is shooting normally. Therefore he can combine Sniper with the Hawk-eyed Archer rule.

Mr_Rose
10-05-2014, 11:10
I still say the fairest solution is to allow the multiple shots and then allow the augmentation of one of those shots with the sniper rule since it's definitely singular.

As a side question though: Bow of Loren vs. Savage Beast of Horros; does the bow get three extra shots when the user is under the influence of the spell? I reckon yes.

MasterSplinter
10-05-2014, 13:38
Yep, 5 shots in total. With my interpretation that it was done on purpose in synergy with the sniper rule.... so 5 sniper shots, how i will play it.

Lord Dan
10-05-2014, 14:54
5 Sniper shots, ignoring armor saves? :D

MasterSplinter
10-05-2014, 14:56
yep. (10 characters (waystalkers in this case))

Mr_Rose
10-05-2014, 15:26
Altogether though, I'd rather give the bow to someone with an actual attacks value and give the hawk-eyed hero the hail of doom arrow. Then point him and his armour-ignoring 3D6 S4 shots at the nearest heavy armour/cavalry unit.

Lord Dan
10-05-2014, 15:35
Altogether though, I'd rather give the bow to someone with an actual attacks value and give the hawk-eyed hero the hail of doom arrow. Then point him and his armour-ignoring 3D6 S4 shots at the nearest heavy armour/cavalry unit.

Unfortunately, GW saw what you were planning. The HoDA is 5 points more than the Waystalker's point allowance. :shifty:

Mr_Rose
10-05-2014, 15:38
Yes, that is unfortunate indeed. Infernal "mini-heroes" with reduced stats and item points! *rassum frassum mutter*
…they could at least call them "captains" or something…

What's worse is that the waystalker would be paying five times as much for the equivalent of a quiverfull of swiftshiver shards that other units and characters can take as part of their unit options….