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View Full Version : Shoot cannons and organ guns through units?????



Yersinia Pestis
10-05-2014, 23:20
Last game i played with my WoC i played against dwarves, offcourse he brought a gunline....
I was thinking to move my units in a way so his own units would stand in the way of his cannons and organ guns....
So this was what i did..... But after my turn he just opened fire on my troops, declaring he could fire OVER his own units as if they weren't there....
To be honest, i went to a metal gig the night before and one of the bands ended up "sleeping" (we partied all night long, lol) in my home so i didn't ask what special rules applied and all.
The result.... Daemon prince gone, skullcrushers gone and the game was actually over....
In retrospect, i'm not convinced he can fire through another unit or over them (his own or mine) so i'm posting this here to hear what you guys have to say about this.....

forseer of fates
11-05-2014, 00:09
The current rules for line of sight are very very lax. Not much blocks line of sight 100%, so most of the time cannons can fire through units, however an organ gun would count the unit it fires through as hard cover so that's -2 on top of any other modifiers. I always but my daemon prince behind 6 trolls so a cannon ball has to kill two trolls to even hit him.

Ramius4
11-05-2014, 02:33
an organ gun would count the unit it fires through as hard cover so that's -2 on top of any other modifiers.

I may be wrong about this, but I think the rules also say that your own troops never give cover to the enemy.

Blkc57
11-05-2014, 07:05
I may be wrong about this, but I think the rules also say that your own troops never give cover to the enemy.

The E-book (pg 87) lists obscuring models from the shooter's view as either "friend or enemy", so your own troops do give cover to enemy models.

GrudgeBringer
11-05-2014, 19:14
The current rules for line of sight are very very lax. Not much blocks line of sight 100%, so most of the time cannons can fire through units, however an organ gun would count the unit it fires through as hard cover so that's -2 on top of any other modifiers. I always but my daemon prince behind 6 trolls so a cannon ball has to kill two trolls to even hit him.

Is the daemon prince a large target? As if he is he cannot benefit from the hard cover given by other units or walls.

Yersinia Pestis
11-05-2014, 19:27
The WoC daemon prince is not a large target.

Invincible Sword Goddess
11-05-2014, 20:24
Is the daemon prince a large target? As if he is he cannot benefit from the hard cover given by other units or walls.

The large target rules don't say anything about units, provided they obscure at least 50% of the model. Same with walls actually, they just don't automatically grant cover to large targets for being in contact with them.

Artiee
12-05-2014, 19:47
For cannons you have to be able to see the spot that he is aiming at. Not the model he is shooting at but the spot he says he is aiming at. IE if he states that he is shooting 8" from the front of the targets base, he has to be able to see the ground spot that is 8" in front of the target.

theunwantedbeing
12-05-2014, 20:32
For cannons you have to be able to see the spot that he is aiming at. Not the model he is shooting at but the spot he says he is aiming at. IE if he states that he is shooting 8" from the front of the targets base, he has to be able to see the ground spot that is 8" in front of the target.

If the spot is a model then he's fine if he can see that model.

SanDiegoSurrealist
12-05-2014, 20:32
The WoC daemon prince is not a large target.

Large target or not it is "True line of sight", if they can see it they can shoot it, the organ gun just fires over the heads of his unit into the DPs face because he towers above and can not claim cover, unless 50% or more of the model (excluding wings and what-not) is obscured, infantry or cav would gain -2 cover shoot through his own unit.
If the point he is aiming a with the cannon is obscured from sight then he can not fire.

Mid'ean
12-05-2014, 22:38
That's why you have a laser pointer handy for gits that think they can just shoot where ever they please thru what ever they please.

MasterSplinter
13-05-2014, 04:08
Is the daemon prince a large target? As if he is he cannot benefit from the hard cover given by other units or walls.

He isnīt but to my understanding he would gain cover from other units in this case but not from obstacles like walls or fences as it is worded in the brb.

SanDiegoSurrealist
13-05-2014, 13:46
He isnīt but to my understanding he would gain cover from other units in this case but not from obstacles like walls or fences as it is worded in the brb.

Still does not cancel out true line of sight, have to get down on the table at eye level of the shooter. Only if the target is more than 50% obscured (in this case was by Dwarves so there's that to consider as well) do they gain the cover save bonus.
You are correct about large target no being able to claim cover save bonus from walls and fences.

minionboy
15-05-2014, 22:07
Actually, to fire a cannon, you must have LOS to the spot you nominate, not the intended target. If you have a unit in the way, it's going to be almost impossible to draw LOS to that point on the ground. Additionally, they can't nominate a spot where it would be possible in any way to hit their own models (none of their own models for 20" beyond the initial spot).

Firing a cannon through a unit at a monster is almost impossible because of the way firing cannons work. Organ guns however are a different story.

theunwantedbeing
15-05-2014, 22:45
Firing a cannon through a unit at a monster is almost impossible because of the way firing cannons work.

Except that you can nominate a model as the initial spot, it doesn't have to be a point on the ground.

minionboy
16-05-2014, 17:53
But you can't nominate a friendly model as the point, just an enemy model or a point on the ground, which still makes it very hard to shoot at a monster though a friendly unit.

theunwantedbeing
16-05-2014, 18:04
But you can't nominate a friendly model as the point, just an enemy model or a point on the ground, which still makes it very hard to shoot at a monster though a friendly unit.

It mostly depends on how much the friendly unit blocks line of sight which in most cases is "not much", given that movement happens before shooting and most cannon users aren't ******.

Seems I found a blocked word, rhymes with "boron" for those curious.