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Adohan
14-05-2014, 15:56
Hey Guys,

Do Units with the Ambushers rules have to be deployed using this rule or can you elect to deploy them as normal units?

SteveW
14-05-2014, 16:06
They must deploy using ambush. So your glade riders cannot start on the field.

Adohan
14-05-2014, 16:34
Does that not make glade riders bad?

Also pointless giving enchanted arrows to, because by the time they turn up (turn 3) we are into combat stage of the game?

Ramius4
14-05-2014, 16:37
Does that not make glade riders bad?

Also pointless giving enchanted arrows to, because by the time they turn up (turn 3) we are into combat stage of the game?

No, not bad at all if you actually want to use Ambush...

Enchanted arrows aren't so bad for them, they're usually going to be a smaller unit anyways so it doesn't cost much. Besides, on the turn they arrive, all they can really do is shoot.

SteveW
14-05-2014, 16:42
It depends on what role you want them for. If you want bog standard redirectors, yeah they're bad for that job. If you want warmachine hunters or harasser's they're better than they were.

Ramius4
14-05-2014, 16:47
If you want warmachine hunters or harasser's they're better than they were.

That's highly debatable. You can't do much machine hunting or harrassment if you don't show up until turn 4 or 5. Ambushers rule is nothing if not unreliable.

If all you want to do is hunt a war machine or two, you're better off spending your points on 10 Glade Guard with Poison arrows. On average they kill a 3 Wound war machine in 2 rounds of shooting.

Lorcryst
14-05-2014, 17:52
I don't have the Wood Elves army book, but I think that you need to carefully read the entries of the units with the Ambushers special rule ...

For example, in the Dwarf army book, the Miners have the "Underground Advance" special rule, stating :


A unit with this special rule can (not must, emphasis mine) deploy using the Ambushers special rule. Additionaly, in the turn in which the unit arrives as Ambushers, they are counted as being in soft cover.

Beastmen have their special version of Ambushers (Beastmen Ambush), Tomb Kings have Entombed Beneath the Sands (those units must start in ambush, but don't move as normal Ambushers do), and the only unit that I know of that has the straigth Ambushers special rules without any additional shenanigans is the Ogre Kingdoms Gorger ...

In the case of the Glade Riders, I don't know the exact wording, but if it's "Ambushers" and nothing else, they indeed must start off the table and come into play on a roll of 3+ starting from the start of your second turn.

Ramius4
14-05-2014, 18:04
In the case of the Glade Riders, I don't know the exact wording, but if it's "Ambushers" and nothing else, they indeed must start off the table and come into play on a roll of 3+ starting from the start of your second turn.

It's just Ambushers.

SteveW
14-05-2014, 18:59
That's highly debatable. You can't do much machine hunting or harrassment if you don't show up until turn 4 or 5. Ambushers rule is nothing if not unreliable.

If all you want to do is hunt a war machine or two, you're better off spending your points on 10 Glade Guard with Poison arrows. On average they kill a 3 Wound war machine in 2 rounds of shooting.




I didn't say they were good, just better than they were.





Sent from my lumina 925 using ninja's

Ramius4
14-05-2014, 19:06
I didn't say they were good, just better than they were.

I know, I read it right the first time. That's the part that's highly debatable...

They've gained a couple tricks with AP and being able to purchase enchanted arrows, but they've lost a lot of reliability by getting the Ambushers special rule. They've also lost the no To Hit modifier they used to have while moving. You can't count on them showing up at the right time, which I feel is kind of a prerequisite for being better than they used to be.

I do think it would be fun to do a non-deployment army with them as Core though. A couple units of 20 and see what happens :p

SteveW
14-05-2014, 19:19
They can take the no penalty arrows and still be the same price as they used to be with now having better shooting ASF and AP. so even though better is subjective, I'd say they're better and most would probably agree.

Ramius4
14-05-2014, 19:25
They can take the no penalty arrows and still be the same price as they used to be with now having better shooting ASF and AP. so even though better is subjective, I'd say they're better and most would probably agree.

Fair enough. It is definitely a subjective thing. And I'm sure you'd agree that a lot of it depends on what role you want them to play.

Ultimate Life Form
14-05-2014, 19:26
Well, yeah. If it has the rule it has the rule. Not much to argue here.

SteveW
14-05-2014, 19:26
Fair enough. It is definitely a subjective thing. And I'm sure you'd agree that a lot of it depends on what role you want them to play.
Yep, that was my original point /rollseyes

sorberec
14-05-2014, 22:38
Also pointless giving enchanted arrows to, because by the time they turn up (turn 3) we are into combat stage of the game?

Only if you're not making use of your Eagles and small throwaway units to stop the enemy getting into your own units (granted it's harder to do that these days, especially when fast moving armies could be charging in turn 2)

ewar
14-05-2014, 23:44
Tomb Kings have Entombed Beneath the Sands (those units must start in ambush, but don't move as normal Ambushers do)

FYI this got Errata'd so they now have the option to Entomb.

Lorcryst
15-05-2014, 08:02
FYI this got Errata'd so they now have the option to Entomb.

Ah yes, you're right, I forgot to check the FAQs when I trawled through my stash of Army Books.

So, if I read this right, the only two units in the current rules that have the Ambushers rule without anything added to it are the Ogre Kingdoms Gorgers and the Wood Elves Glade Riders ... my WE book should be in the mail today, I'll have a carefull read of it :p

SimaoSegunda
15-05-2014, 09:49
Ah yes, you're right, I forgot to check the FAQs when I trawled through my stash of Army Books.

So, if I read this right, the only two units in the current rules that have the Ambushers rule without anything added to it are the Ogre Kingdoms Gorgers and the Wood Elves Glade Riders ... my WE book should be in the mail today, I'll have a carefull read of it :p

Unless you count Monstrous Arcanum, where units of Fimir have ambushers.

boli
15-05-2014, 12:04
I know, I read it right the first time. That's the part that's highly debatable...

They've gained a couple tricks with AP and being able to purchase enchanted arrows, but they've lost a lot of reliability by getting the Ambushers special rule. They've also lost the no To Hit modifier they used to have while moving. You can't count on them showing up at the right time, which I feel is kind of a prerequisite for being better than they used to be.

I do think it would be fun to do a non-deployment army with them as Core though. A couple units of 20 and see what happens :p

I say if you treat the sisters of the thorn as the old glade riders (slightly more expensive for a 4++ amongst other things) and the new glade riders as a completly new unit and ambushing core option then it makes a lot more sense.

One thing the new glade riders do is completely wreak gun-lines; especially move and fire ones such as dwarfs

I *think* if you add in a character (who subsequently leaves the unit) they will start as normal as the character does not have the ambushing rule; although this may not work as you deploy characters last and place them in units already on the table (which the GRs will not be)

Ghorros Ghorrosson
15-05-2014, 12:26
I *think* if you add in a character (who subsequently leaves the unit) they will start as normal as the character does not have the ambushing rule; although this may not work as you deploy characters last and place them in units already on the table (which the GRs will not be)

Nope. The only character you could put in their unit would be one with the Ambush special rule. Of which there are none in the Wood Elf book. They could only be used for fast cav character bunkers if you started your character in with Wild Riders or Sisters and they later jumped unit into the Glade Riders.

Tae
15-05-2014, 15:36
Ah yes, you're right, I forgot to check the FAQs when I trawled through my stash of Army Books.

So, if I read this right, the only two units in the current rules that have the Ambushers rule without anything added to it are the Ogre Kingdoms Gorgers and the Wood Elves Glade Riders ... my WE book should be in the mail today, I'll have a carefull read of it :p

And Snagla Grobspit's Deff Creepers unit

Lorcryst
15-05-2014, 15:45
And Snagla Grobspit's Deff Creepers unit

We don't use Special Characters in my gaming group, nor in the couple of tournaments in my neck of the woods, so I tend to ignore/forget them :p

Karenia
05-06-2014, 03:02
Hi, I'm new here and I just want to borrow the thread. When do ambushers arrive? Can they arrive on the opponents turn? I don't feel the rule book is very clear. On page 12 it says para quote "whenever the rule book refers to a turn it means a player turn" the ambusher rules says that "from turn two onwards role etc..." which then means player turn 2 which means the second half of the first game turn. no were does it say controlling payers turn/your turn. I read this as it's always player turn 2. no matter what. And even if you argue it's game turn 2 it can still be your opponents turn. Maybe I missed something. Ambushers sucks if it's your game turn 2 onwards, and It makes my glade riders horsies sad.

Ramius4
05-06-2014, 03:18
Hi, I'm new here and I just want to borrow the thread. When do ambushers arrive? Can they arrive on the opponents turn? I don't feel the rule book is very clear. On page 12 it says para quote "whenever the rule book refers to a turn it means a player turn" the ambusher rules says that "from turn two onwards role etc..." which then means player turn 2 which means the second half of the first game turn. no were does it say controlling payers turn/your turn. I read this as it's always player turn 2. no matter what. And even if you argue it's game turn 2 it can still be your opponents turn. Maybe I missed something. Ambushers sucks if it's your game turn 2 onwards, and It makes my glade riders horsies sad.

They can only arrive on your own second turn (or later, but always on your own turn).

It doesn't suck, although it would have been better if it were optional whether or not you have to use it.