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Verm1s
18-05-2014, 16:52
I've quoted some discussion from the pricing thread, spurred by GW's 'Visions of the Dark Millenium' art book, that could arguably use a topic of it's own:


Oh, a $75 for a 144-pg, book of recycled rulebook and codex art - that is another one having me say, is there really that many idiots out there? Did they not learn from the resounding failure of Warhammer Visions?


In some ways the art book approach is a more valid one, I can see someone buying an art book - though 45 is ludicrous for its actual contents. Perhaps if its full of lovely paintings it might be more palatable if it wasn't for the fact that we've probably seen them all and own them in a myriad of other cheaper publications by them.


I don't think Visions and an art book is comparable at all. Armies of Renown (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/Armies-of-Renown) on the other hand… but at least that's a look at some models you haven't seen a hundred times before.

I would absolutely pay 45 for some artbooks (I did pay $90 for Rebecca Guay's book (http://www.rebeccaguay.com/kickstarter-gifts.html)), but the sample pictures for Visions of the Dark Millennium do not showcase particularly great art direction IMO*. (Nor am I convinced of the actual physical quality of GW's books, so I would not be prepared to buy it unseen.) Now, if someone were to put out a Karl Kopinski retrospective, I'd be interested.

*Speaking of which, it would make a lot of sense if they would show more pictures and/or a list of the contents. I'm sure no-one that is potentially interested in buying the book will be content with tiny jpegs instead.


I have paid more for some, and will happily do so again - as long as the quality matches the price. The page count alone suggests that GW will not deliver the quality I expect at such a price point. My previous experience with GW publications (not FW though) only supports that suggestion...


Absolutely, if the art books are high quality they're really nice pieces to have (general art books I'm talking about). But a GW one would have to be of that quality to be worth the price and would have to pull off something extra special in terms on its content. All they normally do is just reuse the same old art and photos we've seen before in other publications of theirs. It's just not worth that money.


Say what you like about everything else, but I've never been sorry to buy a GW art book, even their old ones were at fairly high prices. GW has some of the best fantasy/scifi artists in the world working with or on the team. The artbooks are very solid fare and actually pretty reasonable when you compare them to high quality traditional art book pricing from a gallery or museum. Admittedly, these are inflated as well, but it's not the level of absurdity that other GW products have reached.


Is that in the same way that GW makes the best model soldiers in the world?


A shame that that's not the appropriate comparison. A couple of years back I bought Adrian Smith's Illuminations limited edition art book with a signed print. It was 27.90 including postage.

His name might be familiar as he's one of those 'best fantasy/scifi artists in the world working with or on the team'...


There's also this from Paul Bonner (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Forests-Art-Paul-Bonner/dp/1845767055) - a fantastic fantasy artist who's depictions of Orc/ks have never been surpassed- not bad for 13.39 delivered.


I bought The Emperor's Might a few years back for $40 and I though it was okay for the price, but nothing exceptional. I'd have to be wrong in the head to pay nearly twice as much for it. An artbook full of recycled art I have probably already paid for, coming at a paltry 144 pages, is in no way, shape or form worth $75.

PS I'd hesitate to call the current team of illustrators "the best in the world". This might've been the case 10 years ago, but not anymore. Some of the current CG pieces are shockingly unfinished, this even includes cover art, or plain average. Certainly not art work I would call "the best" in any category.

Please note that though I've quoted some comments about prices, I'd appreciate it if this topic concentrated on the content and names included alongside those costs and comparisons, to prevent the modhammer coming down. Aithangyew. ;)

And to add my own comments: who's producing art for the rulebooks, army books and codexicicicies these days? Last one I bought was the 7th ed Skaven book. I assume Karl Kopinski, Adrian Smith, Paul Dainton and Dave Gallagher are still the four most prominent? (Listed in order of personal preference, too)

Ultimate Life Form
18-05-2014, 17:20
If you're into that kind of thing you'll love it. If not you'll see it as a ripoff.

Art has its price, but at least in the case of GW this is questionable. They will have to back it up. If it turns out to come straight from the recycling bin/be a glorified sales catalogue then it's an obvious attempt to milk some more cash from their customers.

azhagmorglum
18-05-2014, 17:39
I don't know who are the nowadays artists for GW, it's been a long time since I last purchased any book from them (rulebook or armybooks/codecii), I'll let you guess why.

Anyway it should be written in the first page of the book, or is it a kind of "by the GW's illustrator team", just like for their rules ? I find that so impersonal, but that is pretty much what they have become, haven't they?

Sgt John Keel
18-05-2014, 18:29
Anyway it should be written in the first page of the book, or is it a kind of "by the GW's illustrator team", just like for their rules ? I find that so impersonal, but that is pretty much what they have become, haven't they?

Since they started with the hardcovers it just says "Art Design, Production and Reprographics by the Games Workshop Design Studio".

jtrowell
18-05-2014, 23:38
Well, I see no problem with using such a generic description, but I find hard to believe that "some of the best fantasy/scifi artists in the world" could be described as simply as "Games Workshop Design Studio".

If we are to believe that they are truly among the best, surely they should at least give us some names, else it's just a pool of some talented but anonymous artists used by a corporation and then replaced as needed.

Sgt John Keel
19-05-2014, 02:02
I assume Karl Kopinski, Adrian Smith, Paul Dainton and Dave Gallagher are still the four most prominent? (Listed in order of personal preference, too)

Kopinski went freelance at the end of Fantasy 7th, I think. Seems like he's doing mostly Magic cards and video game art nowadays.

Ultimate Life Form
19-05-2014, 08:59
Maybe the artists did not want to be associated with GW...?

Just like some authors use a pseudonym when they write something... less reputable.

Verm1s
19-05-2014, 13:12
Adrian Smithee? :D

Slightly annoying that the artists aren't credited. I wonder if it's still easy enough to tell those first four by style.

theredknight
20-05-2014, 03:36
Since they started with the hardcovers it just says "Art Design, Production and Reprographics by the Games Workshop Design Studio".
yet another step in the wrong direction

theredknight
20-05-2014, 03:38
Kopinski went freelance at the end of Fantasy 7th, I think. Seems like he's doing mostly Magic cards and video game art nowadays.
yes. so did mark gibbons

lorelorn
20-05-2014, 12:11
I think Gibbons left GW a few years before Kopinski, but I could be mistaken. Karl Kopinski is indeed kicking butt and producing some great card art for Magic: the Gathering. I wrote a showcase article here (http://scentofagamer.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/mtg-artists-karl-kopinski/), which includes a very good Hydra piece, the article also links to all the cards he's done. He also has a Facebook page called Art of Karl Kopinski which features his art for GW, Wizards, and historical game boxes.

MusingWarboss
21-05-2014, 02:31
Well, if you've got deep pockets and you'd like to own some real Games Workshop art, then head over to Robin Dews eBay site where he's selling off an original Dave Gallagher painting. Be warned though, its pricey!!

Here's his text on the piece:


If you've been following my recent auctions, you'll know that I am currently in the process of clearing my attic and of a large stash of Games Workshop games and miniatures from the late 1980's and early 1990's that are slowly going on sale through eBay.


Well we've been through some of the rare and unusual items I own, and have now moved onto to the completely unique!


This auction is for a piece of DAVE GALLAGHER ORIGINAL ARTWORK from the EARLY 1990's. This piece was painted by Dave for either the 'Waaagh the Orks' or 'Ere We Go' books - I can't remember which.


I completely loved the way Dave lit the painting, with the stark blue/white light of the spotlights contrasting with the ruby red glow coming up from the grill and illuminating the central figure of the Boss and his Henchmen. In fact I liked it so much that Dave gave it to me...which was often the case in those days. I phoned him up the other day and told him I was planning to sell it and he was happy for it to go to a new owner.


I repeat - this auction is for a piece of original artwork! This is not a print and is a completely unique one-off chance to own a piece of GW history. The painting is quite large and measures 42cm by 31cm. It is in acrylic on lineboard and was internally catalogued DG056C (this stands for Dave Gallagher - painting number 56 - colour). Dave has signed it with his 'D' symbol in the lower right corner.


The starting price and the postage rates reflect both the value and rarity of this item. I don't intend to put it in a jiffy bag and send it to its new owner.
Happy bidding and if you want any more information, international postage rates or more specific photos of the piece then please drop me a line.


Best Regards
Robin Dews


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181409960060

Coldhatred
21-05-2014, 15:57
Gosh, I miss awesome art like that!

azhagmorglum
21-05-2014, 17:33
Yeah great piece, never seen it before.


Slightly annoying that the artists aren't credited. I wonder if it's still easy enough to tell those first four by style.

Definitely a bad thing I think. GW is losing its identity I think, and by identity I mean that it's all the artists and sculptors and designers that represents GW in my mind, now it's just streamlined stuff, "design studio", "studio's illustrators" soon Eavy Metal will disappear to the "studio's painting team" or whatsoever...

It's just sad

Gorthaur
22-05-2014, 04:14
Most of the great artists GW had are gone now. If you look at the newer books being released, especially the fantasy army books you can see a hugely increasing trend of cheaply done digital art. I think they have 1 or 2 new artists cranking this digital art out. It just lacks soul. Examples of this are greasus goldtooth in the current OK book, the awful awful Wood Elves spellsinger piece on pg 39 of their book who doesn't even look like an elf. the Glade Guard on the next page, lacking finesse and detail...looks like something I could do in photoshop if given a day or two and little experience. Tehenhauin in the Lizardmen book, they should have just redone the old one in color cause the new one looks amateur. The art is losing its gribbly frightening details, epicness etc and the things that made both 40k and Warhammer unique looking fantasy universes. The best art in all these books usually is just the old pieces redone in color with a few exceptions.

lorelorn
22-05-2014, 10:19
While we are wallowing in nostalgia here, Kev Walker (http://scentofagamer.wordpress.com/2014/03/01/mtgakw/) and Wayne England (http://magiccards.info/query?q=a%3A%22wayne+england%22&v=scan&s=edition), who produced art for GW in the early to mid-nineties, also produce card art for Magic: the Gathering, as does Carl Critchlow (http://magiccards.info/query?q=a%3A%22carl+critchlow%22&v=scan&s=edition), who illustrated Thrud waaaaaay back in the day. Greg Staples (http://scentofagamer.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/mtgags/), who never drew for GW that I know of but produced some great work for 2000AD in the early nineties, also does cards for Magic. Seriously, it was 'familiar faces' like these that drew me into that game.

theredknight
29-05-2014, 12:59
I think Gibbons left GW a few years before Kopinski
you are right, but he later rejoined GW and left at the same time as kopinski.

theredknight
29-05-2014, 13:03
While we are wallowing in nostalgia here, Kev Walker (http://scentofagamer.wordpress.com/2014/03/01/mtgakw/) and Wayne England (http://magiccards.info/query?q=a%3A%22wayne+england%22&v=scan&s=edition), who produced art for GW in the early to mid-nineties, also produce card art for Magic: the Gathering, as does Carl Critchlow (http://magiccards.info/query?q=a%3A%22carl+critchlow%22&v=scan&s=edition), who illustrated Thrud waaaaaay back in the day. Greg Staples (http://scentofagamer.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/mtgags/), who never drew for GW that I know of but produced some great work for 2000AD in the early nineties, also does cards for Magic. Seriously, it was 'familiar faces' like these that drew me into that game.

mr. England is currently working for avatars of war, doing some of the best fantasy concepts available nowadays.
most of it is posted on the aow website (on their World of Saga background website www.worldofsaga.com)