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tiberius122
24-05-2014, 10:34
Hiya all! Just a question, I am sure you can help me to find out...

I just got a Kromlech jetbike and I gonna use It for a DA librarian (as a normal bike). Librarian will be blue, no doubt about this.

So what about the bike's colour?

DA Green?
Ravenwing Black?
Librarian Blue?

At the end of the day I can paint It as I wish,but still I would appreciate some suggestions.

Cheers!

Eldarsif
24-05-2014, 10:39
Only the Librarian armor is blue. The bike will be colored based on where it is from. Ravenwing then it is black, otherwise DA green.

MaliGn
24-05-2014, 11:58
Are you giving him robes? If not you could do it in death wing bone.

Lord Damocles
24-05-2014, 12:07
Since he's a member of the Librarium and not the 2nd Company, he'd probably get one of the Chapter's standard pool of bikes - so I'd go green (then again, the studio's Ravenwing army had a Techmarine on a black bike...).

I can't think of a canon example of a bike Librarian colour scheme, but the studio's biker Ultramarine Chaplian had a black bike, so there is some precedence if you wanted to go blue.

Hammer49
24-05-2014, 12:12
I would think it would be black due to all the other bikes etc seemingly from the 2nd company.

Sir_Turalyon
24-05-2014, 12:25
Since he's a member of the Librarium and not the 2nd Company, he'd probably get one of the Chapter's standard pool of bikes - so I'd go green (then again, the studio's Ravenwing army had a Techmarine on a black bike...).



I think each company has a permanently attached Techmarine and Apothecary (moreso for Ravenwing), hence Techmarimne on Raenwing bike.

Purist asnwer is Dark Angels green (there are no blue bikes and ravenwing does not lend their own.)

My best answer? Use colour that looks best. Blue librarian (possibly in white robes) riding Dark Angels green bike may look strange, especially is he joins squadron of Ravenwing. Maybe DA green blackened with inks / watered down black to make it stand out less?

Nkari
24-05-2014, 12:32
There are ZERO green bikes in the Dark angels, they are ALL black, no exception, just as there are no green terminators.

DA 1 and 2nd company are non codex, in that they pool ALL of the chapters Terminator armours and bikes/landspeeders and attackbikes into those 2 companys, no exception.

So to answer your question, its a Ravenwing bike, even tho the librarian is from somewhere else.

Lord Damocles
24-05-2014, 16:05
There are ZERO green bikes in the Dark angels, they are ALL black, no exception
'Battle Company Squadrons: In addition to the Ravenwing being equiped to employ bikes and Land Speeders, the sixth company can call upon brethren trained to ride Space Marine bikes into battle, and the seventh company has access to Space Marines trained in the use of Land Speeders'.
'Codex: Dark Angels Update' in Chapter Approved 2004: The Fourth Book of the Astronomican

As far as I can see, neither the 4th or 6th edition Codexes actually contradict this.

Surgency
24-05-2014, 16:32
'Battle Company Squadrons: In addition to the Ravenwing being equiped to employ bikes and Land Speeders, the sixth company can call upon brethren trained to ride Space Marine bikes into battle, and the seventh company has access to Space Marines trained in the use of Land Speeders'.
'Codex: Dark Angels Update' in Chapter Approved 2004: The Fourth Book of the Astronomican

As far as I can see, neither the 4th or 6th edition Codexes actually contradict this.

While it doesn't directly contradict, the Chapter Organisation section of the new DA codex(pg 14/15), combined with the description of the Ravenwing on page 20(specifically that the Ravenwing fill the role of outriders and scouts for the battle companies), strongly indicates that the sixth and seventh companies are formed of regular tactical squads that are used in the traditional roles that tactical squads fill. Additionally, there is no mention of bikes used outside of the Ravenwing at any point in the book. I think it's reasonable to assume that the sixth company has been retconned to not have bikes anymore.

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frikandel speciaal
24-05-2014, 16:53
I would make a robed Librarian, armour black, robe as usual, blue shoulderpad, bike black. Looks great.

Lanacane
24-05-2014, 17:22
Only the Librarian armor is blue. The bike will be colored based on where it is from. Ravenwing then it is black, otherwise DA green.

All DA bikes (except some successors and maybe scout bikers) are black of Ravenwing.

There isnt a green bike in sight

Sir_Turalyon
24-05-2014, 17:49
FAQ for 4th edition codex precised that bikes used by Chaplains and Librarians are not-revenwing (as in, no teleport homers). In codex before, DA could field green codex bike squads in addition to Ravenwing. There is nothing (except fan speculation) supporting "All DA bikes are black" idea.

Beppo1234
24-05-2014, 18:16
bikes will be RW bikes. This is not much of a big deal, since the librarium is a circle interior to the DW circle, which itself is interior to the RW circle.

that being said, if we find a librarian on a bike, or any DA on a bike who is superior to the Ravenwing circle of authority, I think we can safely assume that they trained with, or were actual Ravenwing at some point.

Surgency
24-05-2014, 18:16
FAQ for 4th edition codex precised that bikes used by Chaplains and Librarians are not-revenwing (as in, no teleport homers). In codex before, DA could field green codex bike squads in addition to Ravenwing. There is nothing (except fan speculation) supporting "All DA bikes are black" idea.

Except for the fact that you can no longer field standard marines on bikes, which supports my retcon theory. Additionally, the apothecaries in the new codex ride black bikes, but the Apothecarion is a separate organization that does not belong to the Ravenwing

Plus, a green bike will look out of place amongst all the black bikes

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Beppo1234
24-05-2014, 18:17
Except for the fact that you can no longer field standard marines on bikes, which supports my retcon theory. Additionally, the apothecaries in the new codex ride black bikes, but the Apothecarion is a separate organization that does not belong to the Ravenwing

Plus, a green bike will look out of place amongst all the black bikes

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every company has a techmarine, apothecary, standard bearer, chaplain and captain by fluff... so a ravenwing apothecary is very possible

Surgency
24-05-2014, 18:29
every company has a techmarine, apothecary, standard bearer, chaplain and captain by fluff... so a ravenwing apothecary is very possible

They have those assigned to the companies, but by fluff they are not always from that company. The Chaplains are always a part of the Reclusiam, the Techmarines are always a part of the Armoury, the Librarians are always a part of the Librarius, and the Apothecaries are always a part of the Apothecarion. From those organizations they are assigned to separate battle companies as needed.

A marine can be raised out of a company to one of the special organizations and then assigned back to the company he started in, but he is still a part of the central organization that he was raised to, and can be reassigned from that organization to any company

Lord Damocles
24-05-2014, 19:29
Except for the fact that you can no longer field standard marines on bikes, which supports my retcon theory.
You can no longer field Penal Legion squads either.

Not being a playable unit doesn't [necessarily] equate to 'removed from background'.

Freman Bloodglaive
24-05-2014, 23:55
There weren't non-Ravenwing bikes in second edition either.

I painted my Librarian bike blue to match his armour. I just assume it's his personal hog.

Lanacane
25-05-2014, 01:44
You can no longer field Penal Legion squads either.

Not being a playable unit doesn't [necessarily] equate to 'removed from background'.

pray tell point to me where in the fluff does it say that there are bikes not of RavenWing, or indeed if they are not black if they not in the former?

4th ed FAQ is no longer valid, 4th ed codex is no longer valid.

The fluff that is in the 6th ed codex is the current fluff.

Santtu
25-05-2014, 03:41
All fluff is valid if you want it to be.

Drasanil
25-05-2014, 04:53
All libbies are part of the inner circle IIRC, meaning that any libbie on a bike would have basically been seconded to the ravenwing and borrowed one of their rides, so the bike should probably be black.

Sanai
25-05-2014, 06:54
Based on the chapter organisation in the current codex (the only codex that matters) the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th & 9th Companies are made up entirely of tactical/assault/devastator squads. Hence, they don't have bikes. Dark Angels don't have scout bikers, and the 1st company doesn't have bikes. This leaves only the 2nd Company, which the organisation specifically states has bikes.

The Dark Angels have concentrated all of their bikery into one company. The only time a non-ravenwing specialist would be called upon to ride a bike is when he accompanies the ravenwing into battle- in which case the ravenwing would provide him a bike.

frikandel speciaal
25-05-2014, 08:26
In 4th is was perfectly allright to have a Librarian on a green bike. Every time i encountered one, it was green. Heck, even mine was green. If i remember correctly he was pretty worthless and the green bike really looked odd between my Ravenwing. So i would go for black.:)

Harwammer
25-05-2014, 08:39
While it doesn't directly contradict, the Chapter Organisation section of the new DA codex(pg 14/15), combined with the description of the Ravenwing on page 20(specifically that the Ravenwing fill the role of outriders and scouts for the battle companies), strongly indicates that the sixth and seventh companies are formed of regular tactical squads that are used in the traditional roles that tactical squads fill. Additionally, there is no mention of bikes used outside of the Ravenwing at any point in the book. I think it's reasonable to assume that the sixth company has been retconned to not have bikes anymore.

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The 2nd ed codex was also explicit that DA had non-ravenwing bikers, even though no rules were provided for them.

If the Librarian is an honorary member of deathwing could the bike be white? I remember seeing DA art before where the hero was wearing bone coloured power armour.

lordbeefy
25-05-2014, 09:30
Blue...hes a librarian, its not unreasonable to think he would get a dedicated bike...given the superstition and views of 'normal' space marines who view even their battle brothers nervousaly when they are 'touched' by the warp i dont imagine people would want to use his bike when he is not on it, so it would be blue to match his armour.

Plus it also gives it that bit more 'pop' in comparison to your army.

AndrewGPaul
25-05-2014, 11:36
Whatever colour you like. If you're not fielding him alongside a Ravenwing force, then IMO a blue Librarian on a black bike is going to stick out like a sore thumb. Personally, I'd go with green; I'd probably do the Librarian in green too, with a blue shoulder pad, but then I've never liked the odd-coloured specialists.

Black, green, blue - it doesn't matter, as far as the writers are concerned you can change the background if you like.

tiberius122
25-05-2014, 18:53
Are you giving him robes? If not you could do it in death wing bone.

Yes, I am. Still I prefer that colour just for termis armours.

tiberius122
25-05-2014, 19:11
Hiya, thanks to everyone for suggestions and opinions.

As far as It is a jetbike (kromlech non GW model) IŽll go black. Just for a really simple reason: even If according to all the codexes Sammael is the only one riding a jetbike, those flying bikes were heresy/pre-heresy machines, so It should be DA Legion black. I'll just assume that someone found another jetbike in one of the Rock's secrets rooms...Then for the librarian blue armour and green shoulder pad.

Thanks to all of you.

tiberius122
25-05-2014, 19:14
Whatever colour you like. If you're not fielding him alongside a Ravenwing force, then IMO a blue Librarian on a black bike is going to stick out like a sore thumb. Personally, I'd go with green; I'd probably do the Librarian in green too, with a blue shoulder pad, but then I've never liked the odd-coloured specialists.

Black, green, blue - it doesn't matter, as far as the writers are concerned you can change the background if you like.

Yeah, u're right. Indeed I changed the background as I am giving a jetbike to a librarian...but man...I pay for the minis so I can change background IMO
cheers

tiberius122
25-05-2014, 19:19
I think each company has a permanently attached Techmarine and Apothecary (moreso for Ravenwing), hence Techmarimne on Raenwing bike.

Purist asnwer is Dark Angels green (there are no blue bikes and ravenwing does not lend their own.)

My best answer? Use colour that looks best. Blue librarian (possibly in white robes) riding Dark Angels green bike may look strange, especially is he joins squadron of Ravenwing. Maybe DA green blackened with inks / watered down black to make it stand out less?

Indeed, I gonna use a olour wheel to check up what colours fits better with the blue armour.

tiberius122
25-05-2014, 19:22
I would make a robed Librarian, armour black, robe as usual, blue shoulderpad, bike black. Looks great.

May he then look as an Inquisitor? Still, nice idea.

tiberius122
25-05-2014, 19:23
There are ZERO green bikes in the Dark angels, they are ALL black, no exception, just as there are no green terminators.

DA 1 and 2nd company are non codex, in that they pool ALL of the chapters Terminator armours and bikes/landspeeders and attackbikes into those 2 companys, no exception.

So to answer your question, its a Ravenwing bike, even tho the librarian is from somewhere else.

Well, I gonna paint blue my librarian in terminator armour...to me looks better within all those white termis..;)

Leftenant Gashrog
26-05-2014, 03:45
The 2nd ed codex was also explicit that DA had non-ravenwing bikers, even though no rules were provided for them.


Yes and no, Codex: Angels of Death had a fair few editorial snafus in it, the text description of the companies which was a modified copy-paste of the Blood Angel descriptions, claimed they had them but the actual chapter organisation chart did not. The chart coupled with the lack of rules suggests the text was a copy-paste error. Certainly Armies of the Imperium (from whence the chapter organisation originated) explicitly did not give bikes & speeders to the DA reserves.

Beppo1234
27-05-2014, 14:37
The 2nd ed codex was also explicit that DA had non-ravenwing bikers, even though no rules were provided for them.

If the Librarian is an honorary member of deathwing could the bike be white? I remember seeing DA art before where the hero was wearing bone coloured power armour.

like this guy? DA company masters should be white... studio just got lazy over the years.

193904

Leftenant Gashrog
27-05-2014, 19:12
The studio has always been lazy: see Blood Angel Chaplain in the 1st edition Space Marine Paint Set painting guide - they just changed the chapter badge on the studio's Howling Griffons Chaplain, even left his legs half yellow!.

Captains/Company Masters have never been depicted in white armour (barring the neon-Dark Angels on the cover of the Dark Millenium suppliment for 2nd edition, and even that guy was half green), nor has the Chapter Master, Interrogator-Chaplains or Librarians, because although they are all a part of the Deathwing organisation, they are not a part of the Deathwing company which is what the white armour denotes.

Harwammer
27-05-2014, 21:12
Yes, just like that guy!

Perhaps captain armour colour is a personal choice. Maybe marines that have been promoted from the 1st company to captaincy of a 2nd-10th company chapter wear white armour as a badge of honour?

I kinda like that colours/markings aren't too fixed in 40k and variations due to personal taste/artistic license can be claimed as campaign or timeline specific colours.

Beppo1234
28-05-2014, 01:37
The studio has always been lazy: see Blood Angel Chaplain in the 1st edition Space Marine Paint Set painting guide - they just changed the chapter badge on the studio's Howling Griffons Chaplain, even left his legs half yellow!.

Captains/Company Masters have never been depicted in white armour (barring the neon-Dark Angels on the cover of the Dark Millenium suppliment for 2nd edition, and even that guy was half green), nor has the Chapter Master, Interrogator-Chaplains or Librarians, because although they are all a part of the Deathwing organisation, they are not a part of the Deathwing company which is what the white armour denotes.

I always figured Captains/masters personalized once they got to the inner circle. I mix between DW and Chapter colours, especially those company masters deployed in terminator armour. One thing I despise though, is the green robes on current DW terminators!

tiberius122
29-05-2014, 22:19
Cheers to everyone!