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View Full Version : A question for Vets: Why do YOU still play 40K?



Malakai
24-05-2014, 14:54
I've been playing since 2nd edition. Since then I have kept current models for all of the armies I own and bought every edition that has come out. Admittedly there have been years that have gone by without me being able to put my models on the battlefield. Still I'm a collector and painter first and foremost so it didn't really bother me all that much. However, my collections were always centered around building an army, maybe not a competitive one but based on models that I liked. As a collector I was one of the more disappointed people of the finecast line. Still I rolled with the punches, it is 40K afterall! Prices going crazy, again I took the hit...it's 40K afterall! Sixth edition comes out..beautiful boxset!! Two armies that I already own? Hell yeah!. I bought all of the little gizmos and gadgets like the skull measuring tape, the dice packs, the wacky templates, large hardback rulebook, limited edition psychic cards for armies that I didn't even own in preparation for future opponents, hell I even bought the Dark Vengeance novel!

Unfortunately I never got a SINGLE game in with VI ed. After only two years it's pulled? What the hell? Is the shelf life for editions been moved from 4 years to two years now? Or was there some fatal flaw in the system that made GW make a mad scramble to push out a playable set of core rules? I don't get it man. So after..I don't know how many years..for the reasons stated above I think it's finally time for me to cry uncle.

But my question to the vets is why do YOU still play? I'm hoping that maybe there is a great, insightful answer out there that will change my mind and bring me back into the fold. I doubt it though so this question is really more academic than anything else.

hobojebus
24-05-2014, 15:01
7th barely changed anything it's just that the company is losing profit year on year and they are doing anything they can to make money and every one needs the rulebook.

I started in 2nd I enjoyed the game liked painting but was never big on the modelling I just built the kits, I stayed because the game was fun but 6th stopped me playing SW as a assault army and I find gun lines dull to play, with 7th not fixing that and the crap with battleforged and unbound has finally convinced me to stop playing.

I was in for almost 20 years I had alot of good times but that ended in 6th, I hoped 7th would fix things but it's not a new edition just a supplement priced like one.

wanderingblade
24-05-2014, 15:51
I played cos my friends got me back into it and it was a fun thing to do together.

We agreed to go back to rpg'ing about a month ago.

I apologise for not giving an inspiring answer. For what it was worth, our 6th ed games were mainly a lot of fun and very interesting. With everyone on the same page, it was a pretty cool game.

dragonet111
24-05-2014, 15:55
I love the world they build with 40K. GW does a lot of stuff wrong but there is one thing they do right and this is artworks. They always look amazing and the reason why I stick around. 40K is just my favorite scifi setting. Even if the last time I played the game seriously was during 4th ed I bought every edition and I'm waiting for the my copy of the new edition. I know a friend who will love the new rules because he will be able to play the army he wants (not a Waac so no worries).

From what I read 7th may be the edition that bring us back into 40K (still need my Bretonnia armybook for Battle).

duffybear1988
24-05-2014, 15:56
I've been doing it for 20 years now and honestly I'm not sure I am going to continue doing it. In that time I've witnessed the rise and fall of 40k and I just don't like where it's ended up.

I originally started playing because my dad introduced me to model kits and whilst I was in the shop buying some napoleonic figures I stumbled across some converted plague marines in the shop display case. Right there and then I bought my first figures and copy of white dwarf. I spent a week drooling over all the cool stories and conversions in the mag and I knew I had to know more. I was hooked.

So I joined the local club. I was just a wet behind the ears 6 year old but the men there were really great and we joked about my poorly painted marines who were wearing lipstick and had tattoos painted badly on their faces - I was a Slaanesh fan at the time. They taught me how to play, paint and how to convert. At that time there wasn't really a tournament scene, but as I got older and 3rd edition flourished I watched as the older chaps went off to take part in tournaments and came back with their stories of close games and fighting against tough players. I knew I wanted to be part of it. So I threw myself into the game. I didn't just want to win, I wanted to find out everything about the game and I wanted to fight with an army that I really felt connected to.

That army turned out to be Space Wolves, and whilst I have dabbled in everthing else since then SW are still my favourites and the only army I ever take to tournaments.

Unfortunately late 5th/6th edition killed off fun tournament play and 7th doesn't look to have helped it at all.

I guess that over the years my tastes have changed. In the past I loved RT and 2nd edition, but these days I'm more interested in quicker pick up games that are more streamlined. I don't favour the forced narrative or the randomness any more.

Recently I've been spending time painting and converting to see if that side of things can entice me to keep playing, but it just feels soulless and cold. My reason for converting and painting was so I could go off and fight against other skilled players using equally beautiful armies. As tournament play has dwindled I've restricted myself to pick up games and organised play at my local club. The problem is that they don't have painted armies and have adopted this WAAC style that I find boring to play against. Talking to them is often like getting blood from a stone. They just don't see the problems I see and ignore the fluff conpletely. I'm often left wondering why they actually bother playing 40k at all considering how bad a rules set it has.

I work long hours and clubs are few in my area so if I don't play them then I just don't play. I've found a couple of slightly more relaxed Fantasy players recently so I'm probably just going to give up on 40k altogether, at least for a while. Fantasy, even with all its faults is more enjoyable now.

mightymconeshot
24-05-2014, 16:04
Because it is one of the last ways for me and my best friend to still get some friends time in and a break from real life. With both of us working 2 jobs and school plus all the other things in life, we try to put aside all of the crazy one afternoon and go get 2 games of 40k in twice a month. I still occasionally try and go get games in with other people but I hate every minute of it. Right as they start deploying and I see what they are, I just lose the desire to even play. I don't know if it is the rules that are bad or just the players, but I remember back in 4th and 5th all the times I went to play and had a blast. Now I just don't. I think it is because all the crazy rules like flyers, assault, HP, and fortifications. And with 7th being basically a big update I may sit it out. I got a rulebook on the way, and I will give it a go, but I may just move over to the collecting side of things.

Astor
24-05-2014, 16:13
In the 15 years I've been in the hobby, I think I've played about 30 games in total. Not sure if that counts as 'Veteran' status, but I've always stuck around with 40k and the Universe because I love the background, and I really enjoy painting and converting armies. I always have the intention of playing the game, but just never seem to get around to it - I would have completely missed out 6th too, if it wasn't for my local club running a tournament next week.

For a long time I rarely visited clubs or even GW - and I must admit recent visits have put me off a little. There's still the warmth and camaraderie there, but there's a hint of elitism (powergaming, maybe?) that I never noticed before - I like talking to other players about their models, not their armies, and how quickly they'll be able to scythe through my poorly-chosen and not optimised force selections, or told that I've wasted my time buying the models I've got, or even that I should collect a completely different army. The organiser of this tournament I'm playing in even laughed when I said I was taking Rough Riders, and then went off to giggle with his mate (who is also playing in the tournament, so I'm not too happy about that).

I guess I'm trying to recapture that element of fun that I found when I was playing as an 11 year old. But maybe it was never truly there.

Lantern
24-05-2014, 16:28
I still play because I've always found the game fun. No matter how the rules change, improve or get worse, I still enjoy myself every time I roll a dice. So what if Unit A isn't as good as it was, or if Unit B is overpowered. Each change brings with it new challenges, through Hero-hammer, rhino rush, the onset of flyers etc. the game is always changing and I enjoy the fact that no matter how long I've been playing (20 years now), I always have something to learn.

IncrediSteve
24-05-2014, 16:35
I've said for years that it's a hobby first, game a distant second. Unfortunately for the game GW seems to be taking that mentality and running with it nowadays.

I was so excited for 6th. It added flanking into the game due to it's simple closest-first wound allocation, a massive improvement over 5th's bizarre and abusable wrapping system. And the book itself and the hardback codexes; totally gorgeous. The frantic pace of Codex releases made it look like we were finally going to get a complete edition, as in every single codex made with the same style and design mentality. All they had left was Orks, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Gray Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves. Four of those nearly write themselves and would just be color swaps and a supplement's worth of updates. They could have done that within 9 months if they wanted to. No one would even be mad; 3 years to the edition would still be noticeable escalation, but who cares if they actually finished said edition? Granted, I suppose it will depend on what the Ork codex looks like next month or so. If it's the same cover style, I'll be happy. If it's all white bordered clearly sticking out nonsense like the 7th edition rulebook, guess it'll be whine time for me.

But I'll still keep "playing". I only played 5ish games of 5th edition, and I only played 5 games of 6th edition. But I liked all 5 of those 6th edition games, and really all 7th edition has done is add a psychic phase. Paying for the update is annoying, but the game isn't actually changing much.

And the hobby aspect is better than ever. Modern kits are gushing detail and piles of bits for conversions, and the paint line is great once you get over the shock of Boltgun Metal being called something different.

My advice Malakai, is to wait for the boxed set with its mini rulebook. It's hard to find time to play anyway, not having the current rules for a little bit wont hurt anything. Maybe break out an old project and finish it, focus on the parts of the hobby that don't change: building and painting badass miniatures. Once you've got the [basically free] copy of the rules, if you really still want to quit at that point, there would be very little loss. When it was new, I was able to part out 3 different copies of Dark Vengeance, keeping the Chaos bits and still made a profit. That way there's no money risk, and time lets you make the best decision as well.

I've been in the hobby 14 years myself, I see no reason to quit just because an edition is "bad". Hell, Battlefleet Gothic is dead, but it's still a fabulous game worth having and playing.

Harbinger
24-05-2014, 17:04
I started about 20 years ago, and for me the biggest draw was the background, modeling and the artwork. The game itself was always flawed regardless of the edition. But the majority of my games were are with long term friends. It is a way to hang out away from work and family responsibilities and have a good time. My only real complaint is move towards a younger audience. I think the Imperium is loosing the grim dark edge it used to have and xenos/chaos are merely violent and less horrific then they used to be. Which the part of the background that me back in the day. It was not star trek or Star Wars, and there were no lawful/chaotic good adventurers saving planets. Yeah, prices can be a pain, but I convert a lot from other company lines, and since I do not play at gw stores, no one cares as long as it resembles what it is.

So, I keep playing because I like it when they produce new artwork, new miniatures to paint and convert, and friends get together for a good time.

Metal Handkerchief
24-05-2014, 17:12
The only thing that's saved me from quitting is a local gaming group that are just as fed up with GW rules as I am, we have long 'locked in' our rules (mix of 4th, 5th and 6th with house rules)

And the ability to buy second-hand so GW doesn't get any money.

NagashLover
24-05-2014, 17:14
I still play because I enjoy the models and I have a solid group of people who play it. That said it isn't my only miniature game so if I want to shelf it for awhile I always have other options (Warmahordes/Malifaux/Infinity/Fantasy/Monsterpocalype/Mantic Stuff/ and more). In that way I don't really feel the impact the same way as others might. 21 years now.

I'll play every edition but every time a new edition drops I still play, and encourage others to play, previous editions that might fit better.

Or we make house rules or even our own "game". For example in Fantasy I ran a small event where everyone picked a hero character, gave them standard equipment and we dropped them onto a board that was inspired by Night of the Living Dead. We had multiple moving objectives for the players to try and escape the zombie horde, played by myself, and at the end the any survivors were shot up by some HE bowmen.

We're looking at doing an "Aliens" and a "Predator" inspired scenario for 40K. I guess the point is I stick around because it's like cycles. You get your good and your bad and when I hit the bad I just stick to a previous edition, makes some changes to the new edition or use the basic framework to create our own little games. We'll get new blood who come in and want to play it "by the book" and we normally do for awhile, and then we start introducing him/her into how the book is more of a recommendation and that you can do much more with it than what's written on the pages.

I know it will be harder for some than others but I recommend trying. So what keeps me in 40K? The models, the memories and most importantly my adaptability.

Hengist
24-05-2014, 17:16
To the limited extent I do still play - I think I managed to get in about seven or eight games with the 6th ed rules, most of them low model count Zone Mortalis scenarios - I've no better answer than nostalgia for the game I loved in my teens. It used to be that I could at least claim the ready availability of opponents as a reason to persevere with 40k in the face of gouging prices and horrible rules, but now even that has dried up - it's easier for me to find ancients players than 40kers.

Killgore
24-05-2014, 17:17
Because it is fun.

I have the right gaming environment, a great choice of game styles to play and armies that I enjoy collecting, painting and playing.


Who can say 40K has got boring when GW and Forgeworld have created a huge number of expansions and lists to use? Now we can use Unbound lists, the possibilities are endless.

I find that most complaints centre around abused options. Well that is also a player issue. If people do not want to confront the gamers that ruin the fun for others, that is their problem. Find new people to play.

Sephillion
24-05-2014, 17:19
Not sure I count as a "vet" but I play because I invested in my armies, which I like, and got friends into it. I generally like the system.

Saunders
24-05-2014, 17:20
I still play because I'm still excited by following the game. *shrug*

insectum7
24-05-2014, 17:26
Been playing on and off pretty consistently for about 20 years. Despite all the changes and particular quirks from edition to edition that throw me a bit, the game remains fun and challenging when played with good people, and I can put my sweet, sweet model collection to use.

Edit: I don't know if I'm in the minority on this, but I have precisely zero interest in tabletop gaming outside of the 40K universe.

ashc
24-05-2014, 17:33
I'm invested in the background enough to keep me in it; it is my favourite scifi/fantasy universe.

Please note that I do not play much at all, but do enjoy reading, modelling and painting.

R.D.
24-05-2014, 18:49
Because I enjoy it?

Generally my crowd is flexible enough that I can all manner of games in and the few powergamers get singled out quickly. And, well, it's still the most popular system in my parts. Does it have problems? Sure, but I don't think it's quite as utterly unplayable as some make it out to be.

tiger g
24-05-2014, 19:05
Currently 40k is my favorite flavor. Have our 30 systems to play but the background is one of the best ( American civil gaming background is better for me)

Zombie P
24-05-2014, 19:16
I have been playing for 16 years and I always come back to the environment. Its the whole grimdark ideal of it all, and achieving that is what i play for. I play my armies to their inbuilt mechanics and stories, not to win. My space marine captain with a power sword and a combi bolter still charges that Hive Tyrant. I know hes almost certain to die, but thats what a space marine would do. Its funny, if you play like this you will be surprised what actually happens. Things with dice don't always turn out like you would expect.

It does help to have a gaming group that feels the same way. With the current incarnations of the rules, the game does need a way of controlling its self to avoid it being exploited in a detrimental manner. If anyone is into tournament gaming, my only hope is that the new unbound system will cause the TO's to wake up and start realizing they are going to need to be the ones in control of balance.

I can see how some people feel cheated by 7th, but for me I got more than my fair share of usage out of 6th and its nice to have a new rule book, especially one that does its best to answer some of the issues of last edition. Its a shame that some of the other items in the book that I had issues with have not been addressed, but it is clear now that is what jervis is going for rather than a happy accident.

ZP

Ssilmath
24-05-2014, 19:33
Been playing for a bit more than 10 years now, and easily have triple digits of games under my belt. I still play because, regardless of whether I win, I almost always manage to have a good time. Fun stories can come out of games (Though they don't always), and it's hard for me not to have a good time playing a laid back game with other people. I avoid tournaments now (Though I didn't always), but still enjoy making decently strong lists from various themes (Even weaker themes). And I love painting models, with GW models standing out to me as the best of the bunch. The universe itself is really enjoyable, if you go into it knowing that everything is driven by the rule of cool and not trying to make tooo much sense out of it.

HereComesTomorrow
24-05-2014, 19:40
I don't play anymore.

6th mortally wounded the game for me, 7th killed it. The last models I bought were for Nids in January and look at how that turned out. Even more so with the new 7th Ed rules further nerfing what little worked for them.

So yeah, I'm done. We'll see how 8th goes when its released in 6 months.

Khornies & milk
24-05-2014, 20:02
I have for the past 18 months only played Apoc Games and standard 40K games using 5th Ed and earlier, because GW and its core game isn't the duck's nuts it once was, and other company's games are at least as much FUN as 40K is/was.

Why I still play? I have over 40K of models so using them is better than not using them, and the people in my group are fun as hell to play against. Doesn't matter if we're using highly competitive army lists or lists at the other end of the spectrum.

Coasty
24-05-2014, 20:08
I don't play the current edition. Whatever that is. 6.5?

I play 2nd Ed. and Gorkamorka. I was really getting into BFG and Epic, too, when GW killed them off.

I play 2nd Ed. because it has a weird kind of '80s (I know it was the 90s, but it feels '80s) comic feel to it, like the bizarre offspring of Full Metal Jacket and a Saturday-morning cartoon.

Telemachus
24-05-2014, 20:14
Why?

Because I love the fluff and the miniatures.

And above all; because I can accept that GW are a company; whose aim is to make money at my expense.

All of that, and the fact that I'm not bored with it yet.

Coldblood666
24-05-2014, 20:21
A mix of cheesy players determined to win at any cost and the fact that these kids armies look like unpainted (at best) or horribly converted/painted (at worse) crap turns me off the entire thing these days. I remember going to the last local tournament and wanting to pack up and leave because I felt like I wanted to spend my time doing other things. I'm not sure if I'll buy this new rulebook and I'm not sure if I'm going to continue with the hobby. I'm actually considering selling off a lot of stuff. Now that I really think about it I think I was done at 5th edition.

Bunnahabhain
24-05-2014, 20:37
I don't any more

Played in 2nd, 4th, 5th but the end of 5th ed launched such an assault on the Background, it no longer held any intrest for me. Background falling apart, Rules bad and failing to improve, models going from expensive to stupid money, so I quit.

I've got something like 10K of Guard, as well as Fantantsy armies in storage. I've only used them as proxies for other games with so much better rules.

Even with good local groups, trying to make the best of what's there simply isn't good enough. I played in a huge Imperium vs Chaos Game being run as part of a Stag weekend. That was the point where I decided I'd simply had enough of I-Go-You-Go. Alternating avativations simply make a much better game- they remove the need for overwatch and the like, they make the game more tactictal, and they mean one playe doesn't end up doing nothing except make some saves for 25 minutes.

Scribe of Khorne
24-05-2014, 21:14
Because of the setting, and especially now, 30K.

Sir Didymus
24-05-2014, 21:23
Because I like to make some cool models, and I like showing them off to other people and marvel at theirs.

-

The game is bad, but has been so since its first inception. But is good enough to be fun, as long as you don't take it too seriously and delude yourself with the title of 'general' :p

Amnar
24-05-2014, 21:41
I don't play 40k anymore. Love the world, hate the actually game. I still play epic, and I'll play second edition with anyone who'd like to play. The only reason I still lurk around here is the unrealistic dream that one day GW will overhaul 40k and make it awesome again...

gitburna
24-05-2014, 22:17
I don't get to play anywhere near as much as i'd like and I think that's why i've never got bored with it. I actively avoid playing this month's fad army. I build my own scenery, i have lots of different armies (some have been moved on because of a lack of space) I read the Horus Heresy books. I don't go to tournaments or mix with players who are prepared to push the game to its breaking point week in week out. I dont play the same army every week and get bored of it and i don't cram it full of the same units. When my friends come over we play and have a laugh because we've not seen each other for ages and we have jobs, families and are all in our mid 30s now. If we don't play standard 40k we'll try City Fights or Zone Mortalis, Combat Patrol, Kill Team, Necromunda or Space Hulk. One friend plays the 40k role playing game and is trying to get us into that too, and i have a couple of BFG fleets. No-one wants to get thumped but we don't mind losing as long as the game is closely fought.

Mr_Foulscumm
24-05-2014, 23:00
Because no other game has Orks. Proper Orks.

the1stpip
24-05-2014, 23:05
I still play 40k cos I have armies, thats it. Not gonna buy much new stuff, I have been starting to invest elsewhere.

Fear Ghoul
24-05-2014, 23:28
Because of the sunk cost fallacy?

Hengist
24-05-2014, 23:30
Because of the sunk cost fallacy?
Aaand we have the real answer!

malisteen
24-05-2014, 23:36
Sunk cost.

Though, honestly, I don't play all that much anymore. Mostly because I sold off my old, poorly painted models to clear the way for the better paint jobs I can manage now, but my slow painting speed and busy life mean I still am not back up to a painted army. Since I don't care much for the rules these days, and mostly consider games as opportunities to show off my models, that means I don't have much motivation to play at the moment.

stroller
24-05-2014, 23:39
Because it's fun.

It's not realistic - but ACW and Napoleonics bore me to tears. I like skirmish games. I like oddball. It IS fun - with a like minded opponent. I like building and planning - and then executing that plan and seeing what happens when it comes up against the other guy's plan.

Now, I am NOT criticising the OP here but - if you haven't played - are you still a player? And what's wrong with collecting the latest edition and figures just because you want to have them? That's fun too....

Wolf Lord Balrog
25-05-2014, 01:13
I love my armies. I put a lot of hard work (and not a few of my paychecks) into my model collection, and I don't want to give up on playing a cool game with them. I have so many great memories from 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and early 5th Editions. I live in hope that I might have great experiences like that again someday.

Scribe of Khorne
25-05-2014, 02:29
I played in a huge Imperium vs Chaos Game being run as part of a Stag weekend. That was the point where I decided I'd simply had enough of I-Go-You-Go. Alternating avativations simply make a much better game- they remove the need for overwatch and the like, they make the game more tactictal, and they mean one playe doesn't end up doing nothing except make some saves for 25 minutes.

This is why Apoc has, and always will, sucked for me. Even larger games of the normal game but especially huge apoc games. Its *********** boring, loud, obnoxious, and just an exercise in rolling dice and moving models while bringing out the next 'surprise!' dick move.

Hate apocalypse, but the next one that we run i'm going to push for alternate activation.

Inquisitor Shego
25-05-2014, 03:14
I play this game less and less and less, but now I like to read about it more, paint more, and collect more. Ultimately though, I'm playing less of everything.

SonofMagnus
25-05-2014, 03:39
I love how the question is "why do you still PLAY 40k" and we have a bunch of negative nancies who feel this need to say "well I don't play and here's why". Totally against the point of the thread. Get. Out. If you don't play, don't post in the 40k section of a forum. Is that a difficult concept for some? (Pardon the aggression, I'm so tired of the negativity surrounding just talking about 40k and GW in general. Especially in a thread dedicated to actually PLAYING the game)

OT: I play 40k as its a fun game, as long as you are playing with like minded people the rules are fine and enjoyable. 7th ed I'm fairly excited for, been playing since 3rd edition consistently. Have a large 30k Word bearers army, Collect heresy stuff. Easy to see why I enjoy it so much as 30k opened up a massive slew of models and storyline to work with. "narrative" and all that jazz.

Abaraxas
25-05-2014, 04:54
I rarely get to play, but I always enjoy getting to use my little painted dolly men on the table.
My heart lies with the 80s and 90s 40K, since getting back into it in 09 my thing has been collecting and painting those old minis I always wanted but never had back in the day.
When I get a game in it's with 2nd edition, so the current GW, the constant updates and edition changes don't get me upset really.

Amnar
25-05-2014, 07:55
I love how the question is "why do you still PLAY 40k" and we have a bunch of negative nancies who feel this need to say "well I don't play and here's why". Totally against the point of the thread. Get. Out. If you don't play, don't post in the 40k section of a forum. Is that a difficult concept for some? (Pardon the aggression, I'm so tired of the negativity surrounding just talking about 40k and GW in general. Especially in a thread dedicated to actually PLAYING the game)

OT: I play 40k as its a fun game, as long as you are playing with like minded people the rules are fine and enjoyable. 7th ed I'm fairly excited for, been playing since 3rd edition consistently. Have a large 30k Word bearers army, Collect heresy stuff. Easy to see why I enjoy it so much as 30k opened up a massive slew of models and storyline to work with. "narrative" and all that jazz.

Stick your head in the sand all you want bud, but one day you'll wonder why fewer and fewer people are playing with you. People who are posting and giving their reasons why they don't play don't do it because they want 40k or GW to fail, quite the contrary.

Born Again
25-05-2014, 08:06
I enjoy the models and background. I play the game when I can, but I wouldn't do that if it wasn't for the models and background I wouldn't, I don't play other games because as much as I enjoy exercising some tactical thought and playing a good wargame, no other games has models and background that appeals to me. The games are a way for me to explore that background, while seeing my models, assembled and painted, on a nicely modeled battlefield.
Am I feeling a bit jipped that 6th got pulled after only 2 years? Yep. Do I have a lot of reservations about some of what I've heard about 7th. Again, yes. Will I keep playing. You betcha, because the models and background are still there. The great thing about 40k is no-one forces you to use the most current ruleset unless you regularly play in tournaments or pickup games with opponents you may not know. 99% of my games are with the same friend in my house, and we can do whatever we want. We're not in any rush to pick up 7th edition (mostly due to finances than being stuck in the past), but we've enjoyed 6th and there's nothing to stop us continuing to use it, unless we get in a situation where there a models we really want, with a codex entry that doesn't make sense or refers to something new introduced in 7th. Likewise, I understand there is a small but not insignificant number of people that still play both 2nd edition and Rogue Trader.
I'd recommend you do the same. If you have a group of friends that play that a similarly disillusioned with the state of the game these days, just play like it's the 'good old days' - as long as all players are in agreement no-one's going to stop you.

Red Skullz
25-05-2014, 08:42
Totally agree with Killgore! People need to start focusing on having a good time and not go all mathammer...I'm so tired of reading x number of posts and blogs on how bad the game is. I will recuperate from all of the negativity in the hobby forums, that always helps :)

My group also play a host of games so we kinda follow the group consensus on what we want to focus on. We rarely have time to get bored of one system at any given time. The big three for us are 40k, Blood Bowl and Fantasy, in that order. 40k the last year has given my group the biggest boost, converted the most players and we are pretty much in the best period of miniature hobbying I've been in since the early nineties :)


Because it is fun.

I have the right gaming environment, a great choice of game styles to play and armies that I enjoy collecting, painting and playing.


Who can say 40K has got boring when GW and Forgeworld have created a huge number of expansions and lists to use? Now we can use Unbound lists, the possibilities are endless.

I find that most complaints centre around abused options. Well that is also a player issue. If people do not want to confront the gamers that ruin the fun for others, that is their problem. Find new people to play.

Hendarion
25-05-2014, 08:49
But my question to the vets is why do YOU still play?Because I love my models.

lordbeefy
25-05-2014, 09:10
I play very very little. I model and paint incessantly though, and the key to me for 40K is and always has been its backstory...the fluff.

When all else fails, its the fluff that carries the game side of it for me.....for the 2-6 games a year i actually manage to play, the fluff forgives any clunkiness or oddities in the rulesets. I just wish they would progress the storyline beyond Abaddons assault on Cadia. I am an IG player and have had my cadian regiment for my entire time in the hobby, so I want to take them forward.

stonehorse
25-05-2014, 09:23
After 20 years I keep asking myself this. I love the models, and for most parts the background is good.

I like gaming, however the changes that have happened over the last year or so are pushing me to rely more and more on Netrunner for my gaming fix.

lordbeefy
25-05-2014, 09:24
I play very very little. I model and paint incessantly though, and the key to me for 40K is and always has been its backstory...the fluff.

When all else fails, its the fluff that carries the game side of it for me.....for the 2-6 games a year i actually manage to play, the fluff forgives any clunkiness or oddities in the rulesets. I just wish they would progress the storyline beyond Abaddons assault on Cadia. I am an IG player and have had my cadian regiment for my entire time in the hobby, so I want to take them forward.

SpanielBear
25-05-2014, 09:32
But my question to the vets is why do YOU still play?

For the same reason I sing that song so loud.

Because I want to.

Because I want to.

duffybear1988
25-05-2014, 10:03
I love how the question is "why do you still PLAY 40k" and we have a bunch of negative nancies who feel this need to say "well I don't play and here's why". Totally against the point of the thread. Get. Out. If you don't play, don't post in the 40k section of a forum. Is that a difficult concept for some? (Pardon the aggression, I'm so tired of the negativity surrounding just talking about 40k and GW in general. Especially in a thread dedicated to actually PLAYING the game)

OT: I play 40k as its a fun game, as long as you are playing with like minded people the rules are fine and enjoyable. 7th ed I'm fairly excited for, been playing since 3rd edition consistently. Have a large 30k Word bearers army, Collect heresy stuff. Easy to see why I enjoy it so much as 30k opened up a massive slew of models and storyline to work with. "narrative" and all that jazz.

Most people here aren't saying they don't play, just that they play less and then state the reasons why.

Also this is an internet forum. People are allowed to do as the please as long as it's not illegal or insulting. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you have the right to demand anything. The fact that so many people now post negatively suggests far more about the state of the game than you are obviously willing to admit.

So no, I won't be shutting up and I won't be moving on. I suggest if you personally don't like it then you start adding people to your ignore list.

Madfool2
25-05-2014, 10:15
Well I'd answer with "because it was fun!" and I've enjoyed 4th, 5th and 6th edition 40k. I don't enjoy the idea of paying 50 for an FAQ.

I enjoy the models, the background (The older stuff anyway) and I have had fun. But that's slowly draining, that and I have local player base issues. I've been looking more into other systems, and I can't justify buying 7th for a multitude of reasons.

SonofMagnus
25-05-2014, 10:34
Most people here aren't saying they don't play, just that they play less and then state the reasons why.

Also this is an internet forum. People are allowed to do as the please as long as it's not illegal or insulting. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you have the right to demand anything. The fact that so many people now post negatively suggests far more about the state of the game than you are obviously willing to admit.

So no, I won't be shutting up and I won't be moving on. I suggest if you personally don't like it then you start adding people to your ignore list.

Or Could it be that this is the internet with a loud minority. Certainly a possibility. Where I live in Virginia 40k is doing quite well. FTW games is rife with people who play frequently and are passionate about the hobby in general. Among other gaming stores in the area.

Im well aware its an open internet forum, but pardon the annoyance at the endless negativity, then again this could be a perceived personal bias... I guess a certain other war gaming site reminiscent of ork shooting made me jaded to internet complaints regarding moving plastic figurines around a table.

totgeboren
25-05-2014, 10:47
I enjoy painting and converting, and the social aspect of playing a game and drinking beer with my friends.
When I play, I get inspired to paint and such, and when I paint I get inspired to play.

So I play to make myself enjoy the hobby more.

sure, there are problems with the rules, but you can always house-rule if it annoys you enough. My group managed to play 6ed with only one house rule, and that is that the owning player gets to pick casulties first from barrage weapons, with the constraint that he must pick models in the open first, and then go through the ones with a 6+ cover, then 5+ and so on. Cover is assessed from the center of the blast.
It looks like we will keep using that house rule in 7:ed, but so far I can't find any rules that are so bad I couldn't enjoy the game. Fixed challenges, fixed chariots, better assault through cover, more fun psychics (though abusable), fixed jink. These are good things about 7:ed, and to me it looks much better than 6:ed. Too bad they didn't fix Hull Points, but instead nerfed low Ap weapons (wtf?).

All in all I stay in the game because I enjoy it. And it might be the same psychological phenomena that happens when people spend a lot of money on fixing up old cars. They would have been better of just selling it in the first place, but if you spend a lot of money on something, you are much more likely to continue spending money on it. So they continue spending and fixing to the point that they could have gotten a much nicer car if they had just spent that money on a newer one in the first place.

I think 40k is a bit like that. You invest not only money but time and 'love' into your army. Just letting it go would feel like some sort of defeat, or a loss somehow. But I do take breaks, sometimes for a year or so. I hardly played 3ed, and 5ed got maybe 10 games all in all or so.

Doomseer
25-05-2014, 12:05
I've been playing for 27 years along with a few of the other guys at my local club. We used to play an awful lot but since the end of 5th edition we just got tired of codex creep leaving one or more of us behind and how the game has devolved into netlisthammer. Fewer and fewer people coming into, or maturing with the game embrace the fluff and will take anything that wins easier or more often. A couple of situations Vs a few opponents had me considering bubble-wrapping a Wave Serpent with Guardians?! That's just never going to happen and does not represent Eldar at all but it was the best thing to do in those games. :(

We still play but rarely, pick-up games are arranged in advance and with particular opponents to ensure that we get the kind of game that we want. I've been a tournament gamer and can mix it with the best but the state of the 'game' now is so far removed from the experience it once was, I'm hard pressed to take part competitively anymore.

I do have some hope that more players can come back round to the 2 way experience mindset that GW have always promoted. Too many players are only interested in smashing their opponent to bits with loopholes and shenanigans and don't give a damn what the person opposite was wanting from the game. Just because it can be done does not mean we should do it as some would have us believe.

This game has never been balanced but it has also never been this far out of balance. It's now a time where players have to have a conversation about the type of game they want and for this reason I'm actually optimistic and it's the main reason why I haven't given up yet! :)

Lantern
25-05-2014, 12:33
Most people here aren't saying they don't play, just that they play less and then state the reasons why.

Also this is an internet forum. People are allowed to do as the please as long as it's not illegal or insulting. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you have the right to demand anything. The fact that so many people now post negatively suggests far more about the state of the game than you are obviously willing to admit.

So no, I won't be shutting up and I won't be moving on. I suggest if you personally don't like it then you start adding people to your ignore list.

All he meant was that thread is entititled "Why do you still play 40K". If people want to start a thread called "Why did you give up 40K", go right ahead, but hijacking this thread with a list of complaints is rather petty. I enjoy it when more optimistic threads come up. My gaming circle is small, but we enjoy every version that we play. If more people sat down with the intention of enjoying the game rather than winning the game, there would be less need for sharp toned replies like your childish one to SonOfMagnus. Try and enjoy the game.

hobojebus
25-05-2014, 12:51
All he meant was that thread is entititled "Why do you still play 40K". If people want to start a thread called "Why did you give up 40K", go right ahead, but hijacking this thread with a list of complaints is rather petty. I enjoy it when more optimistic threads come up. My gaming circle is small, but we enjoy every version that we play. If more people sat down with the intention of enjoying the game rather than winning the game, there would be less need for sharp toned replies like your childish one to SonOfMagnus. Try and enjoy the game.

Except the majority that gave up no longer bother with forums about that game they left behind, for some 7th has been the final straw and they've only just decided to stop playing.

Zustiur
25-05-2014, 13:03
I play for the reasons already stated. I play because I enjoy the game, because I like the models and because I like the background.

Malakai
25-05-2014, 14:12
I love how the question is "why do you still PLAY 40k" and we have a bunch of negative nancies who feel this need to say "well I don't play and here's why". Totally against the point of the thread. Get. Out. If you don't play, don't post in the 40k section of a forum. Is that a difficult concept for some? (Pardon the aggression, I'm so tired of the negativity surrounding just talking about 40k and GW in general. Especially in a thread dedicated to actually PLAYING the game)

If you're against the point of the thread then why post on it? There are many threads on Warseer that I don't post on because I'm either not interested or I don't feel I have anything to contribute. And to be blunt sir this is a legitimate question and I don't appreciate you telling me where I can and can not post. Let's leave that up to the moderators.


People who are posting and giving their reasons why they don't play don't do it because they want 40k or GW to fail, quite the contrary.

Exactly. No I definitely do NOT want GW to fail. As I stated in the OP I was looking for some sort of insight or inspiration to justify continuing to spend time and money on a hobby that I feel has seen far better days. Do you think I WANT to mothball all of the thousands of dollars worth of minis and material that I've spent DECADES on? OF COURSE NOT!

Red Skullz
25-05-2014, 16:00
Malakai...that comment was not aimed at you..

Lantern
25-05-2014, 16:14
If you're against the point of the thread then why post on it? There are many threads on Warseer that I don't post on because I'm either not interested or I don't feel I have anything to contribute. And to be blunt sir this is a legitimate question and I don't appreciate you telling me where I can and can not post. Let's leave that up to the moderators.

Exactly. No I definitely do NOT want GW to fail. As I stated in the OP I was looking for some sort of insight or inspiration to justify continuing to spend time and money on a hobby that I feel has seen far better days. Do you think I WANT to mothball all of the thousands of dollars worth of minis and material that I've spent DECADES on? OF COURSE NOT!
I believe he was agreeing with the thread. What he disagreed with was people saying why they stopped playing (the opposite of your thread title)

Amnar
25-05-2014, 16:14
Or Could it be that this is the internet with a loud minority. Certainly a possibility. Where I live in Virginia 40k is doing quite well. FTW games is rife with people who play frequently and are passionate about the hobby in general. Among other gaming stores in the area.

Im well aware its an open internet forum, but pardon the annoyance at the endless negativity, then again this could be a perceived personal bias... I guess a certain other war gaming site reminiscent of ork shooting made me jaded to internet complaints regarding moving plastic figurines around a table.

GW revenues are down, so it's not just whiners making waves online. I'm equally annoyed by apologists, so that makes us even.

Amnar
25-05-2014, 16:18
All he meant was that thread is entititled "Why do you still play 40K". If people want to start a thread called "Why did you give up 40K", go right ahead, but hijacking this thread with a list of complaints is rather petty. I enjoy it when more optimistic threads come up. My gaming circle is small, but we enjoy every version that we play. If more people sat down with the intention of enjoying the game rather than winning the game, there would be less need for sharp toned replies like your childish one to SonOfMagnus. Try and enjoy the game.

Sharp reply to people unhappy with the game ok. Sharp reply to people unhappy with people unhappy with the game childish. Got it.

cornonthecob
25-05-2014, 16:32
The thing that I dont get are people who make cheap exscuses as to why they stick with the game when they are unhappy.

Do you like the fluff ? There is the rp game or inquisitor. Have you invested in the army ? There are multiple game systems that use 'marines' of some kind, most of which have fairly easily manipulated fluff for them, alternatively just play it up as a joke "The grim-dark hordes spewed forth from the portal, disturbed by the lackadaisical attitude of the Hashimoto 32nd Corporate troops whom were busy selling Denim to the local Marauder Orx the marines of The Darkgrim chapter charged !"

MadmanMSU
25-05-2014, 16:51
I've been playing since 2nd edition. Since then I have kept current models for all of the armies I own and bought every edition that has come out. Admittedly there have been years that have gone by without me being able to put my models on the battlefield. Still I'm a collector and painter first and foremost so it didn't really bother me all that much. However, my collections were always centered around building an army, maybe not a competitive one but based on models that I liked. As a collector I was one of the more disappointed people of the finecast line. Still I rolled with the punches, it is 40K afterall! Prices going crazy, again I took the hit...it's 40K afterall! Sixth edition comes out..beautiful boxset!! Two armies that I already own? Hell yeah!. I bought all of the little gizmos and gadgets like the skull measuring tape, the dice packs, the wacky templates, large hardback rulebook, limited edition psychic cards for armies that I didn't even own in preparation for future opponents, hell I even bought the Dark Vengeance novel!

Unfortunately I never got a SINGLE game in with VI ed. After only two years it's pulled? What the hell? Is the shelf life for editions been moved from 4 years to two years now? Or was there some fatal flaw in the system that made GW make a mad scramble to push out a playable set of core rules? I don't get it man. So after..I don't know how many years..for the reasons stated above I think it's finally time for me to cry uncle.

But my question to the vets is why do YOU still play? I'm hoping that maybe there is a great, insightful answer out there that will change my mind and bring me back into the fold. I doubt it though so this question is really more academic than anything else.

Honestly, you don't sound much like a player to me, more into the painting and modeling. I think if you're looking for someone to give you a solid reason to start enjoying the gaming side of 40k, you might be disappointed. It's one of those things where you like it or you don't, ya know?

Personally, I hate painting/modelling. I like playing the game. And while I don't buy anything from GW anymore because I refuse to support their continuing take on the rules, I still play games with my friends. Admittedly, we have started playing other games instead of 40k, but the 40k stuff comes out now and then.

duffybear1988
25-05-2014, 17:00
It depends how you define cheap excuses. Some people only have 1 club in their local area so if you want to play then you play there or not at all. I love the majority of 40k fluff and I love converting and painting which is why I stick with it. The problem is that building a cool army is great but if it's just going to sit in a case then what's the point? Then when you do finally get some games in it often feels like you're just removing tokens from the table. Therefore I end up playing less 40k as I always leave feeling disappointed.

I'd also like to add that just because you don't play regularly it doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't up to date or involved in the hobby. For example I regularly visit my local club to hang out with my friends and watch their games. There are plenty of times when we have all stood there and as a group gone WTF were GW thinking when they wrote X, Yor Z? There have also been moments when we have stood around gawping at the cool new kits GW have created.

I guess it's a love hate relationship.

Minsc
25-05-2014, 17:05
I started playing 40k 10 years ago, not sure if that qualifies me as a veteran or not?

williamsond
25-05-2014, 17:05
I play because i have time and effort invested in 40k, however these days i play a lot of none GW stuff which 10 years ago i would never have done(D&D Excluded)

hobojebus
25-05-2014, 17:24
It depends how you define cheap excuses. Some people only have 1 club in their local area so if you want to play then you play there or not at all. I love the majority of 40k fluff and I love converting and painting which is why I stick with it. The problem is that building a cool army is great but if it's just going to sit in a case then what's the point? Then when you do finally get some games in it often feels like you're just removing tokens from the table. Therefore I end up playing less 40k as I always leave feeling disappointed.

I'd also like to add that just because you don't play regularly it doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't up to date or involved in the hobby. For example I regularly visit my local club to hang out with my friends and watch their games. There are plenty of times when we have all stood there and as a group gone WTF were GW thinking when they wrote X, Yor Z? There have also been moments when we have stood around gawping at the cool new kits GW have created.

I guess it's a love hate relationship.

I'm the same I don't think the modelling side alone is enough to keep you in the hobby, if there isn't a game worth playing with those models then there isn't a point in sticking with 40k, it's a package deal.

Homeworld
25-05-2014, 17:31
I played for about 20 years.

I still play because:

- I LOVE my Eldar models (and their fluff)

- I love the hobby (painting, converting, ecc)

- Most important, I belong to a very tight group of friends (I grew with them, actually) and we have a very balanced approach to the game (no WAAC lists, no allies, few fliers, very few Fortifications, very few Lords of War, just because we think all of those things would spoil the fun)

I'm lucky, I guess :)

Last Edition
25-05-2014, 17:32
Played 40k since early 90s, but my armies have been shelved since 6th edition. I really dislike the current rules...still like the universe of Warhammer 40k though. Now I only play Warhammer fantasy.

George Dorn
25-05-2014, 18:03
Because of the sunk cost fallacy?

Never heard of this before, but wow, yes.


With a nod to Homeworld:-

I played for about 20 years.

I still play because:

- I LOVE my Marines (and their fluff)

- I love the hobby (painting, converting, &ct)

- Most important, I belong to a very tight group of friends (I got old with them, actually) and we have a very balanced approach to the game (no WAAC lists, no allies, few fliers, very few Fortifications, very few Lords of War, just because we think all of those things would spoil the fun)

I'm lucky, I guess :)

Time was that there was always a game or two of 40K at the club... not so much now though.

Malakai
25-05-2014, 18:08
To be fair I wanted to hear from both sides of the isle. I've been on this site long enough to know that I would receive answers of both why people were still hopeful and happy with the game and why some were frustrated and taking a break from it or walking away altogether. It is my fault that the title of the thread was poorly worded or ambiguous.

To Magnus I apologize if there were any misunderstandings, but again, I DO welcome the opinions of everyone and enjoy reading them... whatever their take on the current situation. And there SHOULD be discussion about the direction of 40K. That is what this thread is for. I wanted to share my frustrations, but also hoped to hear positive experiences. I also know that I am not alone in my frustrations though. A dialogue weighing the pros and cons of the hobby is ultimately the whole point of this thread.

I know that I may have "painted" myself (see what I did there? ;) ) as just a collector and painter, but that's really just the surface. As I explained I collect armies to be playable within the rule set. When I did play, my armies were often beaten badly because I collect fluffy armies...but they ARE playable (and no I don't mind losing unless it's to a sore winner). So when I am putting in all of those hours crouched over a desk painting a miniature I am considering how they will eventually perform on the battlefield. I've always tried to strike a balance between the two, collector/gamer. Unfortunately no one in my area plays 40K anymore, not since 5th edition. And to be honest I'm not sure I care anymore. I want to care, but the game just seems... out of hand. My dilemma is that although I enjoy the collecting, painting, background and art much, much more than the gaming side, without the possibility of having a positive gaming experience to go along with all of that I don't think I can continue the other side of the hobby. I would desperately love for that to change but it's looking less and less likely with where GW is taking 40K.

Sorry, this is a bit of a rambling mess but I think you get the point.

Oh and did you see poor Jervis? Look into his tired, old eyes as he explains 7th edition rules and you'll have some sense of how I feel about this. lol! He may tow the company line, but inside I bet he's feeling a bit like a used car salesman.

-Totenkopf-
25-05-2014, 18:22
7th barely changed anything it's just that the company is losing profit year on year and they are doing anything they can to make money and every one needs the rulebook.

I started in 2nd I enjoyed the game liked painting but was never big on the modelling I just built the kits, I stayed because the game was fun but 6th stopped me playing SW as a assault army and I find gun lines dull to play, with 7th not fixing that and the crap with battleforged and unbound has finally convinced me to stop playing.

I was in for almost 20 years I had alot of good times but that ended in 6th, I hoped 7th would fix things but it's not a new edition just a supplement priced like one.

I don't read the financial reports for GW so I can't say if they are in fact losing money,. BUT, if they were, their current business model will not help them.. The problem with GW is their tremendous overhead. They are trying to fuel this with higher prices when really they need to shed some weight.. I will use the store in my home town as an example. Premium downtown location right across from a popular comic book shop that now sells paints, warmachine etc.. It is a small shop and always has a small handful of people in their painting.. Great.. No money is being spent.. none... They don't hold tournaments because the shop is too small and they just don't believe in it. I know that there are successful GW shops but I am going to say that a huge percentage of the ones I have visited cost more money than they bring it... They need to close these shops and make it worthwhile for 3rd party retailers to sell their product. There are more 3rd party sellers and through them, they can reach a wider variety of new players..

Sorry for not being on topic but I had to rant...

-Totenkopf-
25-05-2014, 18:28
To be fair I wanted to hear from both sides of the isle. I've been on this site long enough to know that I would receive answers of both why people were still hopeful and happy with the game and why some were frustrated and taking a break from it or walking away altogether. It is my fault that the title of the thread was poorly worded or ambiguous.

To Magnus I apologize if there were any misunderstandings, but again, I DO welcome the opinions of everyone and enjoy reading them... whatever their take on the current situation. And there SHOULD be discussion about the direction of 40K. That is what this thread is for. I wanted to share my frustrations, but also hoped to hear positive experiences. I also know that I am not alone in my frustrations though. A dialogue weighing the pros and cons of the hobby is ultimately the whole point of this thread.


I know that I may have "painted" myself (see what I did there? ;) ) as just a collector and painter, but that's really just the surface. As I explained I collect armies to be playable within the rule set. When I did play, my armies were often beaten badly because I collect fluffy armies...but they ARE playable (and no I don't mind losing unless it's to a sore winner). So when I am putting in all of those hours crouched over a desk painting a miniature I am considering how they will eventually perform on the battlefield. I've always tried to strike a balance between the two, collector/gamer. Unfortunately no one in my area plays 40K anymore, not since 5th edition. And to be honest I'm not sure I care anymore. I want to care, but the game just seems... out of hand. My dilemma is that although I enjoy the collecting, painting, background and art much, much more than the gaming side, without the possibility of having a positive gaming experience to go along with all of that I don't think I can continue the other side of the hobby. I would desperately love for that to change but it's looking less and less likely with where GW is taking 40K.

Sorry, this is a bit of a rambling mess but I think you get the point.

Oh and did you see poor Jervis? Look into his tired, old eyes as he explains 7th edition rules and you'll have some sense of how I feel about this. lol! He may tow the company line, but inside I bet he's feeling a bit like a used car salesman.



I can understand what you are saying. I have only played 40k for maybe 5 years but I have played Fantasy since the mid 90s.. For me, 40k has been moving at a pace that I can only dream that Fantasy will.. Through the editions, there will be ups and downs for everyone.. They can't please us all. You really have to look inside and figure out what a "positive gaming experience" To me it is hanging out with some friends, having some beers and pushing our soldiers around the table. Win or lose, you have to enjoy your opponents just as much as the game system and if you even only have one opponent, a positive experience can be found.

George Dorn
25-05-2014, 19:17
<snip> They can't please us all. You really have to look inside and figure out what a "positive gaming experience" To me it is hanging out with some friends, having some beers and pushing our soldiers around the table. Win or lose, you have to enjoy your opponents just as much as the game system and if you even only have one opponent, a positive experience can be found.

Exactly!

I just wish that the bean counters didn't have so much influence on where GW is going.

Chem-Dog
25-05-2014, 19:50
They got me early.....

I was a naive young lad, I fell for the story of a failed messiah-god and a galaxy spanning realm that struggles constantly to uphold his vision of the destiny of mankind, the legacy of his sons - some loyal, some traitorous some forgotten. I was sucked in by the cargo-cult partner state that juxtaposed scientific endeavour with religious fervour and in the process hobbled mankind so completely. I was tainted irrevocably by the knowledge of the dark unfathomable entities that manifest so many of the ills that beset the worlds of mankind.

I play whatever system is currently in the shops because that's what most people I meet will be playing, if your playing with an army that doesn't fit my 40K universe, that's ok - it's non canon. It doesn't stop me exploring the setting to my liking. I play because I have armies already. I play because I enjoy the activity.

lethlis
25-05-2014, 20:26
I started at around 10, and have played on and off since then.

I really love the background of the universe and I enjoy painting the models. What keeps me in it is that I enjoy the hobby and I enjoy the collecting, and converting, and the crazy painting. I buy less and spend less but that is because I dont need as much. Its the only hobby that I still have left so spending on it really isnt a problem for me. Especially now that I am old enough to attend major events on a reliable basis its a lot of fun.

SonofMagnus
26-05-2014, 02:46
GW revenues are down, so it's not just whiners making waves online. I'm equally annoyed by apologists, so that makes us even.

And if you think I am a "GW Apologist" check yourself. I'm not an apologist. I just play the game and realize that its a "first world problem" In the end it doesn't matter. Could the game use some sprucing up? surely. Perhaps get a group "more" competent to work the ruleset? Definitely. Will this stop me from playing the game? Not foreseeable.

As for the "down revenues" They took a hit. Sure. But are they dead or dieing? Don't kid yourself. Eventually? Maybe. But that eventuality is so far out that its probably a decade or more away. And before they "die" they would sell to a company that would pick up the Warhammer license. Despite them mis-using the property like tards and abusing the fanbase - its still a huge and viable property.

Commissar Merces
26-05-2014, 02:54
The Universe. Certainly not for the rules.

Surgency
26-05-2014, 02:58
And if you think I am a "GW Apologist" check yourself. I'm not an apologist. I just play the game and realize that its a "first world problem"

Sadly the new popular thing to do on Warseer is to call anyone who disagrees with the "GWSUXXXX!" mentality an apologist. Take it as a badge of honor that you don't follow the crowd! :p

Ssilmath
26-05-2014, 03:00
The Universe. Certainly not for the rules.

This is not a criticism Merces, as often as I oppose you on these boards...

Have you considered other avenues for getting into the world? The FFG RPG's are a fantastic representation of the universe, and the rules are pretty good. It'd even be possible to whip up a system that allowed you to use characters generated from their books to play skirmish level games reminiscent of Rogue Trader. It seems to me that it'd be the best situation for you.

Amnar
26-05-2014, 03:03
And if you think I am a "GW Apologist" check yourself. I'm not an apologist. I just play the game and realize that its a "first world problem" In the end it doesn't matter. Could the game use some sprucing up? surely. Perhaps get a group "more" competent to work the ruleset? Definitely. Will this stop me from playing the game? Not foreseeable.

As for the "down revenues" They took a hit. Sure. But are they dead or dieing? Don't kid yourself. Eventually? Maybe. But that eventuality is so far out that its probably a decade or more away. And before they "die" they would sell to a company that would pick up the Warhammer license. Despite them mis-using the property like tards and abusing the fanbase - its still a huge and viable property.

That's great, but you also rip on others for giving reasons why they don't play the game, so in my eyes you are indeed an apologist.

Don't underestimate how quickly companies can go under. TSR immediately comes to mind...

I like the 40k world, and I want to play 40k. I hope that GW will see the error of their ways and reboot 40k from the ground up.

Commissar Merces
26-05-2014, 03:07
This is not a criticism Merces, as often as I oppose you on these boards...

Have you considered other avenues for getting into the world? The FFG RPG's are a fantastic representation of the universe, and the rules are pretty good. It'd even be possible to whip up a system that allowed you to use characters generated from their books to play skirmish level games reminiscent of Rogue Trader. It seems to me that it'd be the best situation for you.

We play a lot of the old school kill team games which are a lot of fun for a person who enjoys small skirmishes. We have also taken to playing 1,500pts and below, most notably the 1,250 mark.

I really don't have an interest in RPG's.

The rules have just gotten too clunky for me, but in general, must of the new rules are a lateral move. It's not as bad as most people seem to think, but it isn't great either. I just feel like there has to be a better way to play 40k and make the rules more coherent.

Ssilmath
26-05-2014, 03:18
We play a lot of the old school kill team games which are a lot of fun for a person who enjoys small skirmishes. We have also taken to playing 1,500pts and below, most notably the 1,250 mark.

That's how I tend to play as well.


I really don't have an interest in RPG's.

Well, that's why I suggested using them to make more detailed kill teams. The XP system they use keeps most characters approximately even, though some care needs to be taken. Just a suggestion though, if you wanted to go a bit deeper with some adaptation work.

Red Skullz
26-05-2014, 05:34
Playing smaller games is actually a great idea. During 4-5th we played 40k in 40 minutes in my group. That was an alltime high until we started playing 750 pts games last year using the allied detachment FoC* as a frame for our games. That led to a huge boom in players, actually more than doubled our little 40k group in my little town. So right now we`re having a really good time playing. Of course eventually the pointscreep will come in as people want to use more of their unevitable growing collections of minis but our target is the nationals in october which most likely will be 1750 pts so we try to steer towards that.

Oh and my groups favourite scenario of all time is the classic "carnage" scenario. 4 way, 18" apart, one objective in the center, 4 turns, the one who holds it at the end wins. I adjusted it a tad, seize the initiative each turn (so from highest to lowest result in game turn), and added secondary objectives first blood (this one is important as this is the one that more often than not wins you the game), and slay the warlord (3 enemy warlords out there, this also can bring home the V) and that only scoring can take and hold the objective and others can contest (this one at least will have to change with 7th changes). We play it with 750 points as that`s the best size for a good flow in the game.
Everytime I think people are tired of this one, this is the one everyone likes to play on our weekly gatherings.

One thing I do like with the unbound thing that`s coming (my 7th ed book is not here until june 2nd..) is that it will open up for some small and crazy skirmish games. Will be fun to try out kill team with unbound as a frame and some house ruling just for laughs and some good old grimdark fun :)

R

*Allied detachment FoC as it is out of 6th:
1 HQ
1-2 TROOPS
0-1 ELITES
0-1 FAST
0-1 HEAVY

ss_cherubael
26-05-2014, 08:59
I play because I love the universe, it is an escape from the daily grind

Gonefishing
26-05-2014, 10:04
I like the 40k world, and I want to play 40k. I hope that GW will see the error of their ways and reboot 40k from the ground up.

I honestly don't see how they can re-boot back from the changes they have made for 6th and 7th as they were so radical (the gap between the tighter, more structured, 5th edition ruleset and ideology, and the game as it is in 6th is huge)- Pandora's box has been opened and then nailed to the ceiling.

A lot of people who hate the "forging narrative /Cinematic / do what the hell you want / apocalypse in a can" have already quit, so if GW reverse back to a tighter more constrictive rules set they have no guarantee those customers will actually come back. The people who like the new editions have spent money embracing the changes, filled up with allies, fliers, super heavies, knights etc, are now the customers GW is focusing on, if they suddenly start focusing on the game again and tell those people "Hey guys - you cant use any of that stuff anymore" - then the chances are high that they will lose all of those people as they scream in collective rage and quit too.

Basically the changes have been too radical, too large (in a very short space of time) and have polarised the community to much for them to roll back any significant amount, they have already lost a shedload of customers(and a change may not bring them back) and they wont want to risk losing the people that stayed because they like the changes - all they can do is try to sell these people twice as much stuff - knight armies and unbound anyone?.

I think the only thing they can do now (if they were smart), would be to introduce a secondary version of the game for Gamers and have two 40k editions running concurrently, the flagship anything goes buy buy buy version, and a tighter more constrictive Gamers version for the people who want that sort of rules set (rather than a book filled with the word "Cinematic"). Then people would have the choice on what sort of game they want, the community would be less polarised and they would be able to roll back / reboot with out alienating the customers they have left.

baransiege
26-05-2014, 11:08
Loved watching 2nd edition from a distance so when 3rd edition came out I started playing 40k and wow, what a disappointment. Dumbed down and simplified rules, sure I kept playing, better than nothing but it was such a letdown. 4th and 5th just seemed to get worse, hated the huge amount of transport and vehicle spam, plus there were some seriously unbalanced factions. Compared to the depth of Fantasy, 40k had turned into a shallow, basic experience.

6th brought a lot more thought back into the game with vast improvements in the form of wound allocation, vehicle damage and snap shooting among other elements. Overall it brought so much more depth to the game for me, best ruleset of 40k I ever played (baring in mind I never actually played 2nd edition). Still not as tactically rewarding as Fantasy, but starting to get there and a noticable improvement. Not to mention the models just keep getting better and better. 6th got me back into 40k, and if 7th turns out to be a dud (which it doesn't sound like so far) I'll just stick on 6th.

Rogue
26-05-2014, 15:43
I honestly don't see how they can re-boot back from the changes they have made for 6th and 7th as they were so radical (the gap between the tighter, more structured, 5th edition ruleset and ideology, and the game as it is in 6th is huge)- Pandora's box has been opened and then nailed to the ceiling.

A lot of people who hate the "forging narrative /Cinematic / do what the hell you want / apocalypse in a can" have already quit, so if GW reverse back to a tighter more constrictive rules set they have no guarantee those customers will actually come back. The people who like the new editions have spent money embracing the changes, filled up with allies, fliers, super heavies, knights etc, are now the customers GW is focusing on, if they suddenly start focusing on the game again and tell those people "Hey guys - you cant use any of that stuff anymore" - then the chances are high that they will lose all of those people as they scream in collective rage and quit too.

Basically the changes have been too radical, too large (in a very short space of time) and have polarised the community to much for them to roll back any significant amount, they have already lost a shedload of customers(and a change may not bring them back) and they wont want to risk losing the people that stayed because they like the changes - all they can do is try to sell these people twice as much stuff - knight armies and unbound anyone?.

I think the only thing they can do now (if they were smart), would be to introduce a secondary version of the game for Gamers and have two 40k editions running concurrently, the flagship anything goes buy buy buy version, and a tighter more constrictive Gamers version for the people who want that sort of rules set (rather than a book filled with the word "Cinematic"). Then people would have the choice on what sort of game they want, the community would be less polarised and they would be able to roll back / reboot with out alienating the customers they have left.

I think that you are right that GW has crossed a Rubicon in both WFB and 40K in the latest editions, with what they have created in the form of monstrous cavalry and flyers for each genre. I don't see how they can un ring those two bells without upsetting a significant portion of their fan base, but GW's business model seems to be an exercise in sadism so we shall see. Lest we forget what happened to the squats, or DOW. I don't see how they would have two different systems that are virtually the same type. It is one thing to have an Apoc. system and then the standard 40K, however basically two different 40K gaming systems is one too many.

Back on the topic:

I am by far not a veteran, however, I have experienced 3 editions of 40K in my tenure of collecting and playing 40K. What I am a veteran of is WFB of 16 years before I moved to playing 40K. The reason why I am interested at all in 40K is the models, and the background, which is ironically the same reason why I am tepidly interested in WFB still. I have been reading some of the older editions of both games, and I tend to like how things were put together back around the 4th or 5th edition for 40K, and I am a die hard 6th fan of WFB. I am one who will agree that no game system that I have read are perfect, however those particular editions are my starting points for any house ruled games. It is my hope that I can cultivate like minded people to start playing some of the older editions. One thing that I am sure of is that I am not going to be playing the 7th edition until I can get the rules for around $10.00 from EBay, however. The good news is that I can now buy the hardback 6th edition book for cheap if I wish.

fenrisbrit
26-05-2014, 16:14
Simple answer: ubiquity. I love table top gaming as a social pastime and 40k, for all it's faults, is THE game which keeps hobbyists talking. Great background, great models and controversial rules. You can find a game wherever you go (and I travel widely). If GW lose that status and something else captures the soul of the hobby then I will undoubtedly migrate with it.

Gonefishing
26-05-2014, 16:56
It is one thing to have an Apoc. system and then the standard 40K, however basically two different 40K gaming systems is one too many.


Standard 40k is apoc. now though, so they theoretically could issue a dialled back 40K Gamers edition, to fill the reverse apoc. niche :P

Wayshuba
26-05-2014, 17:57
As for the "down revenues" They took a hit. Sure. But are they dead or dieing? Don't kid yourself. Eventually? Maybe. But that eventuality is so far out that its probably a decade or more away. And before they "die" they would sell to a company that would pick up the Warhammer license. Despite them mis-using the property like tards and abusing the fanbase - its still a huge and viable property.

Don't bet on it. Once companies cross the threshold it is usually very quick to death (like two to three years). Very rarely do companies ever have a slow death (TSR, DEC, Lehman Brothers, Wang Computer, et al. as just some examples). So, unless GW is able to buck standard business failure paradigms, it is not going to be ten years away.

As it is, word on the street is that things this current period are much, much worse than people realize or are even expecting (and this would explain the obvious rush job to get 40k 7th out the door before period end and the intense focus on "sell more models" rules and the willingness to throw out 25 years of fluff to the wind). Guess we'll know how true that is in another two months when the financials are reported. I will say this though - if it so happens that sales are down 25% or more this current period, that is your clear indicator GW will most likely not even survive to the end of 2015 unless their is a radical restructuring of management and the company. Which is highly unlikely.

We can revisit this in July when the numbers are known.

Azulthar
26-05-2014, 18:23
We're too invested. We know this universe, we know the game, and we have mostly painted armies.

History of (the core of) our gaming group:
2nd edition - Started playing, the good ol' days (though may they rest in peace) :D
3rd edition - It's dumbed down, RAGEQUIT!! :mad:
4th edition - ...and we're back. The game is pretty nice, actually :)
5th edition - Man, the fluff is taking a dive (looking back, we missed the best fluff during 3rd!) :o
6th edition - Eh, we like our games more abstract/balanced these days, GW :(
7th edition - A small improvement, hopefully... :shifty:

Brother-Captain Endymion
26-05-2014, 20:33
Using Azulthar's model:

History of (the core of) my gaming group:
3rd Edition - Started playing, enjoyed the game for what it was.
4th Edition - As Azulthar said, was a complete joy
5th Edition - This was our version of /ragequit. Well, not really. We all went to different systems.
6th Edition - A few of us came back. Most disliked the Allies system, but came back when they learned most of us didn't use it.
7th Edition - We shall see. I'm excited for it, personally. I've heard tales of the awesomeness that was 2nd Edition and this seems to be the closest to it.

As to why I continue to play? Because it's fun. I don't see many extremists in my area. A few powergamers attempting to subvert order by using netlists, but then they fail miserably because they aren't good players. There are enough problems in the real world. Serious problems. But it is nice to shuffle painted models across a table and have fun for a couple of minutes/hours. If I wanted to be stressed all the time, I'd just stay at work.

Spider-pope
26-05-2014, 21:38
Because after 19 years, i still enjoy the game. Which is the only reason to play anything really.

Wayshuba
26-05-2014, 22:03
Because the four of us left in the area (after sixth retired another 20+ players) have decided to stop at 6th. House rule it to work and get off the GW insanity bandwagon for good.

Simple things we have done include eliminating all flyers (and anti-flyers) except transports (with adjusted rules for that), limiting mini-titans (riptides and Wraithknights) to 0-1, eliminating stupid, we need to sell models units (Centurians) and a host of other small corrections, including starting work on a balanced point system.

Quite frankly, it is working well for us. But not so well for GW. Which suits us fine. Back to enjoying games of 40k, but we are still working on how to reduce the ridiculous amount of time it takes to play a game.

As it so happens, be playing in a hour at my house and we are trying some alternative activation rules tonight to see how that works out.

hobojebus
27-05-2014, 02:18
For me I was happy until 6th I played weekly for a year and bit by bit my enthusiasm waned until I found myself making excuses not to play, I started doing x-wing and battletech instead and rediscovered fun.

The reason for my dissatisfaction was how bad assault was made in 6th it took away my favourite style of play making me play a shooting army and I hate that, I had a slim hope 7th would address that problem but when I got confirmation there was no improvement I decided to call it a day I can't face another 2-4 years with the game like this.

Bob Hunk
27-05-2014, 10:13
For the background (which can't be beaten IMO), the hobby side and the social side. :)