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god octo
18-06-2006, 21:27
This is my first dogs of war list. I have decided to go for a combined arms approach, with both infantry and cavalry. What do you guys think?

Heroes-454
126-General w/ Heavy armour, enchanted shield and sword of might
88- Paymaster w/ Bright Helm of Myrmidia, heavy armour, shield and pistol
145- lvl 2 wizard w/ 2 dispell scrolls
95- wizard w/ scroll and steed.

Core-1136
239-19 pikemen w/ full command and heavy armour
300-20 republican guard
80- 10 crossbowmen
81- 9 duelists w/ pistols
81- 9 duelists w/ pistols
197-8 heavy cavalry w/ full command
80- 5 light cavalry w/ bow and spear
80- 5 light cavalry w/ bow and spear

Special- 267
72- 12 halflings
195-14 paymaster's bodyguard w/ full command, heavy armour and warbanner

Rare-135
85- cannon
50- halfling hotpot

The bright helm comes from a list of unofficial magic items designed for an italian campaign and can be found here-
http://merchantprince.homestead.com/DoWMagicItems.html ( sorry, linky doesnt work)


I plan to keep all my infantry together, with the duelists protecting the flanks. The cavalry wil try to get behind the enemy to cause chaos.

(edit: sorry, edit due to spelling.)

CarlostheCraven
22-06-2006, 16:11
Sticking to the combined arms approach here is what I would recommend

Characters
The paymaster does not need that helm (since it is not GW tourney legal I would not bank on it friendly games, as it may throw you off down the road) or the pistol. The Talisman of protection may be worth it, though.

The Wizard on steed should be on foot, as he will not get anything done on horseback other than be killed more easily.

An option I occasionally used with my dogs was a magic heavy list loaded with powerstones - this works really well if you are patient and happen to have the Storm of Cronos.

Core
- 20 pike is ok, but what you really want is 24-28 to maximize frontage and # of attacks.
- xbow and duellists look good
- 4 wide heavy cav isn't that good, and with only 3+ saves you will lose that rank in no time. The standard is essentially easy victory points for your opponent as you will not be able to break most infantry on the charge. I recommend running 6 wide (114 pts), possibly with musician (+1 to rally) (129pts) - without the musician you could almost have two units of 6 for the price of your other unit.
- the light cav are not terrible useful. If you are going to bother with spears then you should include shields, but then they are 18 pts VS 19 pts for heavy cav. Using small units with bows for harassment and marchblocking is ok just do not rely on them for combat.

Special
- The halflings work for fluff reasons, but the fact they do not skirmish really hurts their usefulness, and Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks are too expensive.
- The bodyguard are crap at 15 strong, drop them to strengthen your pike units or add a small unit of ogres, placing them between your pike units for some good flank charging action.

Rare - perfect

Other units you may want to consider

Long Drong's Slayer Pirates - at 16-20 strong they are a great anchor unit - though with the rumoured changes to pistols in 7th their value drops considerably.

If you must have a hammer knight units go with the Venators which are effectively inner circle Mercenary Knights lead by a hero.

The Lost Legion is one of my favorite Pike units - they provide you with a little more shooting and provide you with another hero.

Cheers

Sinew
22-06-2006, 16:48
A few thoughts of mine:

If you're taking heavy cavalry, that's where I'd put the Paymaster. It might seem odd, throwing him into combat, but it's the best way to protect him IMO. The Paymaster is the real Achilles Heel of Dogs of War, and due to their lack of magic items it's really hard to protect him. Even if he's in the front of a really nasty pike unit people will throw suicide charges into the front of it with cheap units or lone characters just to try to take him out. If they do then slightly under half your army is likely to leg it - including all the stuff you put close to the board edge. By being on a barded warhorse, you can reduce your paymaster's vulnerability, and with heavy armour and the enchanted shield he can get up to a 1+ save.


- 20 pike is ok, but what you really want is 24-28 to maximize frontage and # of attacks...
The bodyguard are crap at 15 strong, drop them to strengthen your pike units or add a small unit of ogres, placing them between your pike units for some good flank charging action. I totally agree with CarlostheCraven, on these points - especially regarding the Bodyguard unit. One of my regular opponents plays Dogs of War, and initially his army was a riot of different units including Dwarf infantry and the Paymaster's Bodyguard. Soon enough all the infantry except Pikes (and the occasional unit of Norse) disappeared. It's just not as good as Pikemen for the cost.

I'm not so sure I'd write off Lumpin' Croop's Fighting Cocks (if you can bear the awful name) as they're quite mobile, quite accurate and the skirmishing stops them being so horribly vulnerable with their T2. Still probably worse than crossbowmen point for point but I'd consider taking them as I doubt there's much in it really.

god octo
22-06-2006, 19:22
Thanks for your comments guys. Ill do another list, getting rid of the bodyguard and swapping the cavalry for venators. ill also swap some other units around, but i dont want to include ogres, as i hate the models and i dislike them in all forms.

Adlan
22-06-2006, 22:54
A little know trick would be to swap out the sword of might for a morning star. Saves quite a few points, though you no longer have magical attacks.

Sanjuro
23-06-2006, 07:57
Yeah, and it's only good for the first round.

I think you should up both mages to level 2. Either that, or just bring a single scroll caddy. A level 2 and a level 1 isn't that good a mix.

Other than that, I have nothing really to say. These guys are all veteran DoW generals and they have given you good tips. The thing is, with DoW the precise army list is really secondary to how you play it (true for all fantasy armies, but almost more so with DoW). You have to be able to use all units to their potential, which is not easy in the game climate we have today. It was easier a couple years back, but these days most armies out there are pretty much over the top when compared to the rather humble Dogs of War.

DoW is the perfect choise for the modeller and historical enthusiast. I won't lie to you though - they are one of the weaker armies in WH. It is entirely possible to do well with them, but that depends on so many factors. And unlike almost all other armies, you have no crutch to lean on. I.e. undead don't break, HE have good magic and cav, DE are fast as heck, etc. You don't really have a schtick of your own so you just have to make do with what you got.

It's quite challenging actually, and I find DoW is one of the most interesting armies out there (coupled with Empire of course) in that you can see some parallels with how real world 15-16th century armies would fight (well, apart from the ogres and monsters and that stuff). For a history buff like me, that's a big plus.

What attracted you to DoW, god octo?

god octo
23-06-2006, 16:43
well, im actually a wood elf player, but the variety of different troops and uniqueness of the list made me seriesly consider them. i havent actually started collecting, as i have no money at all, but i cant stop myself. I just love the different lists that you could make, and all the unique units like pikemen and duelists- some of the best infantry ever. And although im not a brilliant conversionist, i like modeling and swaping models' bits and weapons. also with DoW, no two armies look the same and i hate it when you have models or units that look the same.

Anyway, heres my new list:

Heroes: 415

109-General w/heavy armour, enchanted shield and morning star (thanks Adlan!!)
76-paymaster w/ heavy armour, shield and talisman of protection
145-lvl 2 wizard w/ 2 scrolls.
85- wizard w/ scroll

Core- 1143
250-20 pikemen w/ heavy armour and command
300-20 republican guard
80-10 crossbowmen
72-8 duelists w/ pistols
72-8 duelists w/ pistols
219-6 volands venators
75-5 light cavalry w/ bows
75-5 light cavalry w/ bows

Special-289
72- 12 halflings
217-17 dwarfs w/ heavy armour, shields, great weapons and command

Rare-135
85-cannon
50-halfling hotpot.

This is my new list. i have 18 points left over, but im not so sure about the dwarfs in my special choices. they were to replace my paymasters bodyguard and protect the paymaster, but im not so sure if they're up to it. what do you guys think? I kept my paymaster on foot so that he could stay near my infantry and use his BSB skills to reinforce my lines.

CarlostheCraven
23-06-2006, 17:40
The Dwarfs are definitely a step in the right direction - better toughness, armour save, leadership, the option for str 5 GW attacks, and more bodies, at the loss of stubborn and initiative and movement - all in all a good deal.

I will offer a possible alternative for the 217 points plus 18 to spare you have available. You could have 2 units of 6 heavy cav, with no upgrades, for 114 pts each or 228 pts. You can use them as "tactical missiles" with movement 8 that can hunt down enemy wizards that are in units, you will probably break, but them (hopefully) outdistance their pursuers, and rally to fight again. Even if they die its ok... think of it as an exchange. 114 points of cav for x pts of wizard and usually you will come out ahead, even when targetting scroll caddies.

Cheers

god octo
23-06-2006, 17:53
What should i do with my last 18 points? i havent enough to upgrade my wizard to level 2 and i could only get one other pikeman. should i get some more crossbowmen or halflings?

CarlostheCraven
23-06-2006, 21:47
Why not increase the duelists to 9 strong - at 8 you take a panic test if you lose 2 models, at 9 strong 3 have to die to panic.

Cheers

DirtJumper
23-06-2006, 22:18
Boost those Pikemen units up in size. Most people use their units as 5 wide, so you want to be 7 wide in order to maximise your attacks, and you want to be 4 deep for the same reason. Ricco's republican guard is amazing, and Ogres provide a good punch in combat to the army, but if you rally don't want to use them, no one is going to make you. I would also advise using only lvl 2 wizards (lvl 1 is pretty useless), and I would also say switch your Genral out for a Wizard Lord (much more usesul, gives you a very good magical offence) Other then that, take out the halfling and Light cav for some Heavy cav, and you can even Bard their armor (2+ save), because the extra movement is not vital.

god octo
23-06-2006, 22:44
with the lvl 1 mage, i thought i would choose lore of beasts and pick the default spell. this would then allow any fleeing troops to rally. I thought about that Carlos, and i think its the best idea.dueslists with pistols are fun:D Thanks for all your help, you've been a really aid.

@DirtJumper, i choose a general and not a wizard lord, as the wizard has a measly Ld of 8 and Dogs need as high a LD as they can get.

Adlan
23-06-2006, 23:14
I'd personally get rid of the crossbow men and upgrade your lvl1 to a lvl 2, then maybe some (overpriced) musicians for the light cavelry.

What Tactics are you planning on using with this force? because at the moment the list screams my own personal favourite, Marching Steel.

Advance with the Pikes, hopefully towards a terrain bottle neck, while using the dwarfs and dullists to protect your flank, use the board edge to protect the other, This usually unnerves your opponent and they can either retreat, or charge. If they charge they will die on the pikes of your wall (unless they are uber Cavalry, even pikemen can be defeated somtimes. Magic out anything to Nasty, at least weaken it a bit.). If thye don't you can advance and corner their units, ganging up on them with a unit of dullists and pikemen, one in the flank and one in the front.

If there is no terrian bottle neck You can use the dwarfs as bait, by placing them in between your pikemen, Thus:
:Pikes: :Dullists: :Dwarfs: :Dullists: :Pikes:
the enemy would rather charge dwarfs than pikes. At this point your two units of dullists can swarm forwards. and mob the foolhardy unit that charged your line. Be sure to keep the dwarfs infront of the dullists and the pikemen about 3' on either side of the dwrfs.

My own Army has no Cavalry yet, so the tactics for the horses are just theory hammer but in Marching Steel would be to as you first said "to get behind the enemy to cause chaos." Hopefully Smashing Venetors into the flank or rear of a unit while the light cav take out lone wizards and warmachines.

The minimum shooting thats really worth it are 2 units of crossbowmen 5*2, and it is well worth it to advance up on to a hill (or have one in your deployment zone). One unit dosn't cut it.

Crazy Harborc
24-06-2006, 01:11
Well, so far I am in the running in the local campaign, with my DoW. Here's my 2000 pts worth.
141 Mec. Gen. warhorse, heavy armour, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield.

61 Paymaster...a hand weapon, heavy armour and shield.

220 2 Level Ones with 2 dispel scrolls each (I like Lore of Fire)

320 Four units of 10 each of crossbows.

254 For 11 Heavy Cav, lances, shields, heavy armour and full command.

84 For 12 Duelists with extra hand weapons.

294 For 24 pikes with heavy armour and full command.

214 For 23 Norse Maurauders, hand weapons, light armour, shield and full command.....Frenzy:evilgrin:

405 For 20 Cursed Company :evilgrin:

It's fun and that's the important part for me.

god octo
24-06-2006, 14:46
Adlan, that is actually very similar to my plan. I would make the two pikemen blocks and the dwarfs (who would be inbetween the pikes) my battle line. i would guard their flanks with the duelists and place my shooting units (crossbowmen, halflings, cannon and hotpot) on terrain or to create firing lanes.I would either place all my cav on one flank, split them. i planed to use my light cav to draw out charges and then flee. at 75 points, they are very cheap. My heroes would stand around with my infantry to lend leadership and spells.

I thing i will only have one unit of crossbowmen and i unit of halflings, as the have good BS, and rate of fire, but crossbowmen cannot move and fore, so they may die easily from flyers etc.