PDA

View Full Version : DOC or WOC - Help me choose my second army, please



Alojolo
25-05-2014, 21:31
Hello! I'm a Dark Elf player and I'm willing to build my second army. My two choices are Daemons of Chaos and Warriors of Chaos, but I've got to choose one and I'm somewhat undecided.

I have to admit it: I love the idea of commanding a Daemonic army. I played Daemons back in 7th, but that wasn't much fun because of how broken the army was. My favorite God is Nurgle, Tzeentch being the second (and I have no real interest in Khorne or Slaanesh). I've always loved Plaguebearers and would build my core around them and Pink Horrors (another of my favorite units in the game). What I really don't like that much is the reign of chaos table (or the randomness there is), but the army as a whole feels like music to my ears. Also, those Plague Drones... I need two units of them!

Warriors of Chaos seem quite nice too. I love the models, specially the Skullcrushers, the core Warriors, the chariots and virtually most of them. But I really don't know if I would enjoy them as much as DOC (yeah, I think DOC are fun to play with).

My main opponents are Dwarfs, High Elves (BotWD I'm looking at you), Empire and Skaven. Nonetheless, that stupid banner wouldn't stop me from playing DOC.

So... yeah, I guess I'm a bit more inclined to play DOC; but I'd like to hear your thoughts too.

Any recommendations, feedback or ideas? They will be highly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ultimate Life Form
25-05-2014, 21:48
I'm in the same boat as you. I like Daemons but the recent randomness has put me off. Frankly they are not a very safe bet to put your money on. They have a tendency to change very much between Editions, and while this may be in character for the army it is a major pain from a player point of view. I dabbled a bit with them but I really can't recommend them to anyone. I will get the Plague Drones regardless; they are awesome models and either they will be playable with 9th Ed unbound or I'll find a way (=excuse) to convert them into something for one of my other armies.

Malagor
25-05-2014, 21:48
I would say DoC since they are more fun to fight against then WoC.

Sexiest_hero
25-05-2014, 21:53
DOC, have better shooting more variety of units, lots of fun colors and themes and you one **** off your friends as much.

Malagor
25-05-2014, 21:57
Well he can still **** off his friends but due to the random nature of Daemons they don't get nearly as much hate.

peukestas
25-05-2014, 22:08
I voted for WoC. Apart from mass-monster lists and unkillable Daemon Princes, you have a wide range of options you can use and have fun with. If you like DoC for their randomness/unreliability you can play the same style with WoC (Altars, forsaken, giants, trolls, chaos spawns). One more reason I would prefer WoC is their fluff. Consider that, if gw makes the fantasy magic phase similar to that of 40k, you may be able to summon daemons.

Alojolo
25-05-2014, 22:12
I really don't like randomness in my armies, I try to avoid it (although if I chose DoC I'd live with it). I'm starting to think that WoC could be a great choice and a bit more "reliable".

Sexiest_hero
26-05-2014, 00:48
If you have dice you have random, The only thing about the DOC random nature is the reign of chaos table, and WoC has the Eye of the gods, and there is a item the pretty much lets you reroll the table result. Magic is random and so is charging, and the weather. If you are just looking for the most dependable lists you'll end up being another in a long line of Nurgle daemonprince players. Head on over to the Daemon thread and look at all the cool things they can do before you lock yourself into an army with march forward and chop

Alojolo
26-05-2014, 01:18
If you have dice you have random, The only thing about the DOC random nature is the reign of chaos table, and WoC has the Eye of the gods, and there is a item the pretty much lets you reroll the table result. Magic is random and so is charging, and the weather. If you are just looking for the most dependable lists you'll end up being another in a long line of Nurgle daemonprince players. Head on over to the Daemon thread and look at all the cool things they can do before you lock yourself into an army with march forward and chop

What's wrong with dependable lists? Honestly, I don't think there's nothing wrong with wanting a reliable army or list.

adtheis
26-05-2014, 01:40
Of the two, I've only owned a WoC army, but also recently sold it. My problem was that even though it's sweet to be able to build a super lord that can/will kill everything, actually playing with the army isn't that fun tactically. You have SO much freedom in your build but on the tabletop you play the same game every time - especially with Nurgle. DoC, on the other hand, might be more restricted in builds, but be more fun to play with. You don't even necessarily choose what your general is armed with, but that allows to to be armed with something new every time!

As for the Reign of Chaos table, I imagine the randomness would spice things up a bit. It's only on a 6 (per unit) that anything happens, plus it's helping the Daemons player... in most cases.

I don't think there's anything wrong with reliability - my main army is Bretonnians where the only air of randomness is my charge range - but imo randomness suites DoC perfectly. Additionally, you'd be rolling for random stuff SO often that you can almost bank on the law of large numbers to give you some consistency by the end of the day.

Obviously just my opinion. I voted Daemons. Warriors suck to play against, and in my experience get boring to use.

Ultimate Life Form
26-05-2014, 01:47
The sheer amount of dice you have to throw when you play Daemons, especially when it's Tzeentch and lots of Horrors are involved, quickly reaches ridiculous dimensions. If you're into that kind of thing you can just as well play a regular dice game instead. Far cheaper.

I second your thoughts about WoC though. To be honest neither is my cup of tea, but with WoC you at least know what they'll be doing.

Alojolo
26-05-2014, 02:40
Despite the randomness I see a lot of Daemons winning and/or placing very high at many important tournaments, but still they don't seem to receive the overall hatred WoC do (at least not in this thread... yet).

Malagor
26-05-2014, 06:55
Well Nurgle is powerful with DoC as well but they aren't nearly as bad as Chaos warriors with the mark.

EvanM
26-05-2014, 07:27
play WoC but just dont be seduced by the power to win every single game, resist the urge and take a sensible army instead.

Brother Haephestus
26-05-2014, 08:09
Here is my WHY on Daemons ...

1) Same army for 40K as fantasy. Two armies for the price of 1.
2) Several in-army factions, allowing you to mix and match as you see fit.
3) Big honking daemons!
4) Stupid-easy to paint. Check this out:
- Prime Bloodthirsters black. Drybrush with Khorne Red. Paint metal highlights. Maybe a little orange drybrush on scales. Done.
- All others: Prime white. Select appropriate colored wash and put on. Paint odds and ends like scales and blisters. Done. See links below.
5) Stupid-easy to base. Glue sand. Paint black. Drybrush grey. At some clumps of scorched static grass. Done.
6) Prime for some of the most amazing kit-bashes and conversions if you are a modeling/painting hobbyist.
7) Decent power base. I'd call it a top 25% army, easy. Can be both a finesse army or a brute power army. Pick a force depending on your mood.

Things you may not like:
1) Limited in choices. The army is not nearly as deep options-wise as WoC.
2) Outdated Greater Daemon models. Some of them are just butt-ugly. Forge World's are much superior, but that is some $$ to get them.
3) Carry the army book around and people think you've joined a cult ... (yes, I have, but it's a cult of plastic and metal miniatures, not monsters).
4) Anti-daemon bias. No matter how brilliantly you play, people will always disregard your skill and say that it was the army that won, not you.
5) Warriors, Knights and Chosen are some very gorgeous models, though the foot warriors are a bit common. They're still one of my favorite fantasy kits though.

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt169/Despyria/863DD0E0-8736-40D5-83AC-274E6D9BD326-1175-000000A0A2146445_zps5c70060e.jpg (http://s608.photobucket.com/user/Despyria/media/863DD0E0-8736-40D5-83AC-274E6D9BD326-1175-000000A0A2146445_zps5c70060e.jpg.html)

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt169/Despyria/1277486A-ADF8-4B41-ACF5-D0941467688A-1175-0000009F86AF7C37_zps0e787d13.jpg (http://s608.photobucket.com/user/Despyria/media/1277486A-ADF8-4B41-ACF5-D0941467688A-1175-0000009F86AF7C37_zps0e787d13.jpg.html)

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt169/Despyria/F17F54AC-4A40-4AF8-9D4D-8AF84AF91605-2601-00000220F143B168_zps6170b7fa.jpg (http://s608.photobucket.com/user/Despyria/media/F17F54AC-4A40-4AF8-9D4D-8AF84AF91605-2601-00000220F143B168_zps6170b7fa.jpg.html)

Mortarions scythe
26-05-2014, 12:44
I voted daemons because you clearly have more of a passion for them. This means you won't loose interest in painting/assembling them. Don't be turned off by one bad rule as in a few years it could be gone and a warhammer army is a big investment.

Nagash333
26-05-2014, 13:18
I'd echo the comments from one previous posters, certainly looks like daemons are the best fit for you.

Also they are an excellent army, option of mono god (WoC not as important an issue) plus lots of great plastic models

theunwantedbeing
26-05-2014, 13:20
Daemons, unless you're going to stick them on the 40k bases and then try to use them for fantasy.

Snake1311
28-05-2014, 14:03
Go DoC - especially as you like Nurgle and Tzeentch; thats where the goodness is (with the exception of the Skillcannon).

They are nowhere near as random as people think - the reign of chaos results and the weirdness of double 6s/1s on break tests compensates for them being immune to psychology and unbreakable, i.e. your untis do what you want them to do more so than with other armies. The random aspect if just managed differently, but then you don't have to worry about those aspects of the game whcih otehr armies have to consider.

BotWD elves are not as bad of a matchup as it seems on paper. Keep the main unit occupied with your numerous cheap options (furies, single beasts) while you take out everything thats not under the banner.

Metacarpi
28-05-2014, 14:18
I'm voting Daemons. I have both DoC and WoC armies, and my DoC see far more table time.

Although if you prefer the WoC army, but like the DoC models, you can always do what I'm in the process of doing with my WoC - kitbash the appropriate kits together! I bought a load of Plaguebearer bits off of a bitz site and am in the process of bashing them into my current batch of WoC troops to represent the blessings the units have recevied from Papa Nurgle.

Dominatrix
28-05-2014, 14:29
I would say go with WoC.. For starters you might enjoy the change of pace because they play quite differently than the DE you already own. DoC play more akin to DE. Second you state you hate randomness, so Reign of Comedy and random gifts to your characters will probably not be very appealing to you. Third you state you dislike Khorne and Slaanesh so if you are dead set on excluding units from these two deities you are missing kannons and slaaneshi magic which is quite strong. Fourth even though you don't seem to take it into account, if you have a regular HE opponent and he is using the skill banner games against him with DoC will be as fun to you as pulling out your own teeth. When all is said and done its up to you to decide but based on your current army and the information you have provided I believe you will enjoy WoC a lot more.

Alojolo
28-05-2014, 14:48
Despite the amount of votes DoC are getting, I feel like WoC are growing on me quite fast. It's very interesting and helpful to read all your comments. Right now, I'm feeling more inclined to play WoC. Any other feedback or thoughts will be highly appreciated.

Dominatrix
28-05-2014, 15:05
One last comment to bear in mind.. WoC are considered according to internet wisdom to be a lot more broken than DoC.. thus more people dislike them.. thus DoC get more votes by virtue of being the less OP army.. If you disagree with this ask yourself the following: How many people would advise you to try DoC if this were 7th edition?

SSquirrel
28-05-2014, 15:12
WoC is more visually appealing to me. Crazy Vikings in armor vs a ton of demons. I get the Prince w either army. I'm doing WoC for my 2nd army bc I was already buying a prince for Storm of Magic and figured that was 1/5 a Chaos army, may as well :)

Snake1311
28-05-2014, 15:37
One last comment to bear in mind.. WoC are considered according to internet wisdom to be a lot more broken than DoC..

Internet wisdom is wrong. WoC are better at smashing new players into the ground, but when you play against people who know what they are doing and have optimized lists, DoC provide more options.

Dominatrix
28-05-2014, 15:41
Internet wisdom is wrong. WoC are better at smashing new players into the ground, but when you play against people who know what they are doing and have optimized lists, DoC provide more options.

Hehe no arguments from me on that.. I used the term "internet wisdom" because quite a lot of times it is anything but.

Spiney Norman
28-05-2014, 15:47
One last comment to bear in mind.. WoC are considered according to internet wisdom to be a lot more broken than DoC.. thus more people dislike them.. thus DoC get more votes by virtue of being the less OP army.. If you disagree with this ask yourself the following: How many people would advise you to try DoC if this were 7th edition?

Except that is simply not true, its possible to make a daemon army every bit as foul as a min-maxed warrior list if you spam the right units, actually I think you could potentially make something worse with daemons because broken warrior builds generally revolve around spamming chimeras and a kitted out DP while the rest of your list are just points fillers, with daemons you can get great points efficiency from all your units.

I'm not particularly attracted to any of the chaos factions, but of the two I would choose daemons, the warrior book, despite being powerful, is one of the worst designed, most unbalanced books they have produced this edition.

Nubl0
28-05-2014, 16:23
I own all 3 chaos armies, of the 3 I find DoC most fun to play. However if I really want to play a game with a true combat lord that can keep on chugging then nothing is cooler than a kitted out chaos lord. However I feel DoC are better because of all the options and play styles you can try. Plus a quick shout out to the loveable beastmen, these guys by far are the most visually appealing imo, however they are just not that fun to play right now as their book is so weak, nothing quite like a unit killing doombull though.