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TheWhitestLotus
27-05-2014, 08:51
I am reading the new rulebook and from what I've gathered, the only two advantages to having a high Psychic Mastery Level are:

1. More warp charges overall
2. Better DTW

Am I missing something here? It seems like a Mastery Level 3 Psyker isn't actually that much better than a Mastery Level 1 Noobie Psyker, and this disappoints me. Why can a ML1 Chaos Sorcerer (potentially) cast as well as Ahriman / Fateweaver? It makes no sense.

I must be missing something.

Changer
27-05-2014, 09:10
A level 1 could cast as well as Ahriman even before 6. Edition, pretty much in every edition. So this isnīt something new, is it? However: More Mastery Levels will result in more powers you know, which will influence how many the modell may attempt to cast.

TheWhitestLotus
27-05-2014, 09:23
I completely missed the part about how many spells you generate... Thanks! Are there any additional benefits to having a high Mastery Level?

Changer
27-05-2014, 09:27
Well, yes. These are quite clearly written in the psi section and are usefull in terms of DTW and generating dice.

AndrewGPaul
27-05-2014, 12:32
Does a Chaos Sorceror have as high a Ld as Ahriman or Fateweaver? Mastery Level is only one way the rules distinguish between psykers of different ability.

Changer
27-05-2014, 13:03
Yes, they do. However, in a german boad, they discuss if your ML determines the amount of spells per psi phase you can cast. For instance, ahriman could cast 4 blessings, while a ML 1 sorc could cast just 1. The argument depends on the first bold paragraph about ML.

Itsacon
27-05-2014, 13:14
A spell cast by a high ML psyker is also harder to nullify.

The +1 to DTW is given for being a higher ML psyker than the casting psyker. So against a Lvl 3 caster you will rarely get this bonus.

A psyker can never cast more spells in a turn than ML+2 (if he has a force weapon and psychic focus), since spells can't be case twice by the same psyker.

ubertek
27-05-2014, 14:22
Yes, they do. However, in a german boad, they discuss if your ML determines the amount of spells per psi phase you can cast. For instance, ahriman could cast 4 blessings, while a ML 1 sorc could cast just 1. The argument depends on the first bold paragraph about ML.

It's quiet clear.

You can cast 1 power per mastery level. Page 22

Changer
27-05-2014, 14:32
While Witchfire tells you to cast as long as you have dices. Is Witchfire an exception to this rule?

ubertek
27-05-2014, 14:42
While Witchfire tells you to cast as long as you have dices. Is Witchfire an exception to this rule?

It does not say that.

therefore it is NOT a exception.

"A Psyker may manifest several different witchfire powers during the same phase"

1. You can cast 1 power per mastery level.
2. you can cast each power you have once, up to the number you are alowed to cast (see point 1)
3. you can have multiple witch fire powers...

It really is very simple

Itsacon
27-05-2014, 14:53
It's quiet clear.

You can cast 1 power per mastery level. Page 22

The text there says `The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.'

It doesn't say `The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn is limited to his Mastery Level.

It depends on it in the respect that ML determines the number of powers a psyker knows, and he can't cast powers twice. But nowhere does it say you can't cast more powers than your ML, if you know them.



While Witchfire tells you to cast as long as you have dices. Is Witchfire an exception to this rule?

The text literally says `Unlike firing a shooting weapon though, a Psyker can manifest several different witchfire powers during the same phase'

So you can't fire the same witchfire twice. But you can cast multiple witchfires.

TheWhitestLotus
27-05-2014, 17:05
One question comes to mind after reading this thread, regarding Psychic Focus. Since it appears that the book does not explicitly state that a Psyker's maximum spells per turn is equal to his Mastery Level, it would seem that any ML1 Psyker has the ability to cast two spells a turn, due to Psychic Focus. And if that ML1 Psyker were to somehow learn three or more powers, he would be free to cast all of them every turn.

This is of course assuming that GW didn't screw up their wording on page 22. Perhaps the misleading sentence does intend to state that ML1 = 1 spell/turn, ML2 = 2 spells/turn etc.. Who knows?

I hate arguing semantics every new edition, but honestly, this stuff matters. Does anybody else agree?

AndrewGPaul
28-05-2014, 10:30
The text there says `The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.'

Yes. The number of spychic powers a psyker knows is determined by his mastery level (with a couple of caveats). He can cast each of his powers once per turn, so the number of powers used per turn is also (indirectly) determined by his mastery level. Simples. :)

Mind you, as I understand things, you'll be wanting to use multiple warp charges per "level" of the power (or whatever the proper term is), so I think you'll run out of dice long before every psyker can use every one of his powers in a turn.

totgeboren
28-05-2014, 10:47
Mind you, as I understand things, you'll be wanting to use multiple warp charges per "level" of the power (or whatever the proper term is), so I think you'll run out of dice long before every psyker can use every one of his powers in a turn.

Unless you *gasp* only use a single psyker! :eek:

A single lvl 2 psyker with say two warp charge 1 powers and one warp charge 2 power could definitely get all powers of. Say you roll a 5 for charge generates so you got 7. You really want your charge 2 power off so spend 4 dice on that and succeed. Then one of your wc1 powers feels more important, so you spend 2 dice on that and succeed. Then you only have one dice left for a wc1 power, giving you a 50/50 chance of succeeding, which you could very well manage.

I omitted Force, since that is sort of a special case, but as long as you don't spam psykers they could definitely get all their powers off, especially if they have many lvl 1 powers.

AndrewGPaul
28-05-2014, 11:21
Yes, that occurred to me after posting. Then again, most of the discussion seems to be about spamming psykers - it looks like doing that might give you diminishing returns when it comes to actually using all those powers. Effectively, the D6 rollis your "buffer" of additional psychic charges to improve your odds, and the more psykers you have, the more thinly-spread that becomes. As for "Say you roll a 5 for charge generates ", well, you're just as likely to roll a 1 or 2, meaning you might need to blow all of those 3 or 4 dice on a single 2-charge power. A 50% chance for me isn't something I'd plan for - that's basically at the stage of "well, I've tried everything I wanted to cast and I've got a die left. Let's risk something..."

totgeboren
28-05-2014, 11:30
Hmmm, that got me thinking that CSM Sorcerers with familiars are actually really good now, especially when it comes to casting cheaper powers. A 'normal' psyker needs to spend two dice to get a 75% chance to cast a wc1 power, but a CSM scorcerer only needs to spend 1 dice to get the same odds (since they get to reroll their psychic test). From a statistical point of view, they sort of get a one dice discount on casting which is pretty neat.

ashc
28-05-2014, 11:42
Hmmm, that got me thinking that CSM Sorcerers with familiars are actually really good now, especially when it comes to casting cheaper powers. A 'normal' psyker needs to spend two dice to get a 75% chance to cast a wc1 power, but a CSM scorcerer only needs to spend 1 dice to get the same odds (since they get to reroll their psychic test). From a statistical point of view, they sort of get a one dice discount on casting which is pretty neat.

I had figured this out too, go Chaos Sorcerers!

don_mondo
28-05-2014, 13:18
It's quiet clear.

You can cast 1 power per mastery level. Page 22

Problem is, it's not that clear. All it says is that ML determines how many powers a psyker can cast, but doesn't tell us exactly what that means. Nowhere does it say ML1 can cast 1, ML2 can cast 2, etc. So does it mean a 1:1 correlation or does it mean that since ML determines how many powers a psyker can know, that a psyker can cast everything they know?

AndrewGPaul
28-05-2014, 14:53
At the moment, I'm going with the latter.

ashc
28-05-2014, 14:54
Is it set in fantasy that a wizard can attempt each spell he knows once as long as magic dice generated allows it?

I think that may be the case with this too?

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druchii
29-05-2014, 18:54
It does not say that.

therefore it is NOT a exception.

"A Psyker may manifest several different witchfire powers during the same phase"

1. You can cast 1 power per mastery level.
2. you can cast each power you have once, up to the number you are alowed to cast (see point 1)
3. you can have multiple witch fire powers...

It really is very simple

#1 simply isn't true.

d

ashc
29-05-2014, 19:40
#1 simply isn't true.

d

I agree with this. As far as I can see you can attempt to cast as many powers as you know once, as long as dice will allow it.

hobojebus
29-05-2014, 19:53
GW hasn't printed clear rules? colour me shocked.

druchii
29-05-2014, 20:16
GW hasn't printed clear rules? colour me shocked.

The rules are pretty darn clear, in this case, to be fair.

d

SimaoSegunda
29-05-2014, 21:42
How do the dual powers work from the Eldar "runes of battle" lore? For example, I think with conceal/reveal, you can only cast either conceal or reveal each turn, but knowing some of the rules lawyers I play against, who might try to cast both claiming them as different powers, I'm not sure which rule to use to stop them if they try these shenanigans.

hobojebus
29-05-2014, 21:48
The rules are pretty darn clear, in this case, to be fair.

d

Does this thread not prove otherwise?

ashc
29-05-2014, 21:58
How do the dual powers work from the Eldar "runes of battle" lore? For example, I think with conceal/reveal, you can only cast either conceal or reveal each turn, but knowing some of the rules lawyers I play against, who might try to cast both claiming them as different powers, I'm not sure which rule to use to stop them if they try these shenanigans.

Good question. It says a power from the Runes of Battle gives the warlock access to two separate abilities. It then goes on to say when using this psychic power, choose which ability the psyker is attempting to use.

I read that as one psychic power with 2 'modes' which you must decide when casting, so I don't think you can cast both Conceal and Reveal by the same psyker in the same phase, for instance.

I could be wrong, but it is my interpretation of what is written.

druchii
30-05-2014, 04:01
Does this thread not prove otherwise?

This thread? Nope. Rules still perfectly clear.

d

DoctorTom
30-05-2014, 18:39
Good question. It says a power from the Runes of Battle gives the warlock access to two separate abilities. It then goes on to say when using this psychic power, choose which ability the psyker is attempting to use.

I read that as one psychic power with 2 'modes' which you must decide when casting, so I don't think you can cast both Conceal and Reveal by the same psyker in the same phase, for instance.

I could be wrong, but it is my interpretation of what is written.

I'd agree with this, given that they say the unit casts each power once, not each ability once. It wouldn't suprise me to see if FAQ'd at one point if they want to treat the reversible powers as 2 separate powers, but until then you treat them as the same power.

Axeman1n
31-05-2014, 01:35
Should be fun with Scrolls of Magus, potentially casting a dozen powers on my sorcerer. I just hope I can survive all the perils.

MajorWesJanson
31-05-2014, 04:35
While GW is FAQing psychic powers, they may want to look at the Psychic Choir powers in Apoc. They seem like they need some adjustments- Storm of change is pretty powerful for a Warp Charge 2 power, and Force Vortex as a Warp Charge 4 power seems extremely likely to perils if they want to pass it, which also triggers a Terrors of the Warp.

Spiney Norman
01-06-2014, 08:31
GW hasn't printed clear rules? colour me shocked.

I'm the first to complain when rules are genuinely unclear, but in this case it is definitely a case of not attributing to bad writing what can adequetly be explained by lack of reader comprehension.

Souba
01-06-2014, 08:36
straight out of the rulebook first sentence in the Mastery levels paragraph:


The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.

anyone saying this isnt clearly written simply wants to cheat.

Spiney Norman
01-06-2014, 08:40
straight out of the rulebook first sentence in the Mastery levels paragraph:



anyone saying this isnt clearly written simply wants to cheat.

I totally agree, but it does rather depends on what you think it means.

For example what that sentence definitely does not mean is "the number of psychic powers a psyker can use each turn is equal to his mastery level".

One is dependent on the other only so far as his mastery level dictates the number of powers he knows and he can only cast each power once. If the psyker finds a way of knowing more powers, he can use more powers.

DoctorTom
01-06-2014, 17:30
straight out of the rulebook first sentence in the Mastery levels paragraph:



anyone saying this isnt clearly written simply wants to cheat.

I agree with Spiney Norman here. ''Depends on'' is not the same as ''is equal to''. It depends on mastery level in that ML helps determine the number of powers you have, and you can't cast each power more than once (unless you are Ahriman and have his Machine Gun of Witchfire Powers) or cast powers once you have used up your Warp Charge dice. All that is clear from the rules. Anybody trying to claim that you can't cast more powers than your ML is misreading the statement you quoted.

Now if they mean for a psyker to not be able to cast more powers than his ML, I'm sure they will take care of it when they FAQ the main rulebook. Until that happens, though, that limit doesn't exist.

ashc
01-06-2014, 17:48
Rollng for additional warp charge and giving you extra powers seems a little redundant if you can then only cast a single power per mastery level.

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Souba
01-06-2014, 18:33
Rollng for additional warp charge and giving you extra powers seems a little redundant if you can then only cast a single power per mastery level.

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ever thought about that each psychic power in every discipline has different effects than the rest? why could there be a reason for that?

a telepathy ML 1 psyker that for instance rolled terrify also gets the primaris for free but why? because it lets you some tactical decision on what power you use for each situation.
example: there stands a fearless enemy infront of you.. might aswell use psychic shriek because terrify wont help much... on the next turn there is a enemy non fearless unit holding that objective you cannot reach. might aswell try terrify now to get him off that objective.
do you get the point? it lets your psykers take action on almost every situation and not just "hmm i cannot cast this power because it has no use against my opponent... my psyker is useless now. great...xxx points down the trashcan"

why are there additiional warp charges... well that question wouldnt even be questioned if you actually read how psychic powers are cast now. its no longer that LD you have to pass with 2d6. its a D6 roll per spend WC that you have a 50% chance of passing per dice. good luck with that if you seriously believe those additional warp charges are just there for you to use more powers per psyker than allowed. those additional dice are there for you to more safely pass a psychic power. otherwise the psychic phase would be so damn broken noone ever would use psykers ever again with a 50% chance of getting a WC 1 power off. and a lv 3 psyker would almost never be able to get a single WC 3 power off without additional dice. good luck with that.

also: a ML 1 psyker is no longer bound to only cast WC 1 powers. he can also cast powers with a higher WC usage. thats why those additional charges come in handy aswell.
look at focused witchfires. those powers give you benefits if you actually use more dice than needed.

seriously, read the damn book and dont come here speculating stuff that is clearly written. if you did read the book you might aswell try to read it again. if there are questions i guarantee you that most here will help you out here but posting such nonsense like this does not help anybody here.

MagicHat
01-06-2014, 18:34
Rollng for additional warp charge and giving you extra powers seems a little redundant if you can then only cast a single power per mastery level.

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Hardly true when you can have WC3 powers, and WC1 powers requires 2 dice to have some measure of dependability.
Also, I doubt that you question IG senior officers having 9 orders when they can only use 2/turn. Having Prescience and Perfect Timing, but only the capacity to use one of them, means you must make a choice when firing PC devastators on a unit in 4+ cover for example.

EDIT: Ninja'd by a wall of text. My sensei will be most displeased.

Felwether
01-06-2014, 18:42
Rollng for additional warp charge and giving you extra powers seems a little redundant if you can then only cast a single power per mastery level.

That's now how I would have interpreted it. In my eyes, at least, your ML determines how many powers you know - not how many you can manifest.

In many cases you will only know a number of powers equal to your mastery level and will therefore only be able to cast that many. However, with Psychic Focus you know the Primaris Power in addition to any other powers you know.

I can't see anything that suggests a ML2 psyker with Psychic Focus can't cast two powers AND the Primaris Power.

hobojebus
01-06-2014, 18:46
Hardly true when you can have WC3 powers, and WC1 powers requires 2 dice to have some measure of dependability.
Also, I doubt that you question IG senior officers having 9 orders when they can only use 2/turn. Having Prescience and Perfect Timing, but only the capacity to use one of them, means you must make a choice when firing PC devastators on a unit in 4+ cover for example.

EDIT: Ninja'd by a wall of text. My sensei will be most displeased.

Your dishonour is grave!

But yeah I stand by my earlier comment gw has been doing this 3 decades now they should be able to use accurate language instead of the vague terms they do.

Souba
01-06-2014, 19:19
That's now how I would have interpreted it. In my eyes, at least, your ML determines how many powers you know - not how many you can manifest.

In many cases you will only know a number of powers equal to your mastery level and will therefore only be able to cast that many. However, with Psychic Focus you know the Primaris Power in addition to any other powers you know.

I can't see anything that suggests a ML2 psyker with Psychic Focus can't cast two powers AND the Primaris Power.

now this is getting redicilous. is the primaris power a psychic power or is it a special rule or is it even a order? to answer the question read the highlighted words. you can cast as many psychic powers per turn as you have mastery levels.
did you know you can still change to select a rolled result for the primaris power. because, yknow there are still players with psykers who dont actually use psychic focus.

Felwether
01-06-2014, 19:40
now this is getting redicilous. is the primaris power a psychic power or is it a special rule or is it even a order? to answer the question read the highlighted words. you can cast as many psychic powers per turn as you have mastery levels.
did you know you can still change to select a rolled result for the primaris power. because, yknow there are still players with psykers who dont actually use psychic focus.

Sorry, I must have missed the section that states you can manifest one power per ML. Which page is it on?

Souba
01-06-2014, 19:43
Sorry, I must have missed the section that states you can manifest one power per ML. Which page is it on?


on the psychic phase page. the very first sentence that is highlighted big under mastery levels:

"The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level."

Ssilmath
01-06-2014, 19:48
on the psychic phase page. the very first sentence that is highlighted big under mastery levels:

"The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level."

Of course it is. A unit can only attempt to cast a certain power once, and a psyker will have a number of powers equal to their ML (and sometimes ML+1). However, it does not say 'A psyker is limited to the number of times they can cast, determined by mastery level." Take Ahriman for example, being able to cast a witchfire three times (instead of just once). I see no reason why he can't toss three witchfires, then another three of a different witchfire (Provided you have the dice).

Souba
01-06-2014, 19:50
The number (X) of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level (X).

why do you guess are there mastery levels in numbers and not flufflike categorized in epsilon, delta, gamma, beta, etc... like it actually is in the fluff? yeah.. could be rule purposes.

Minsc
01-06-2014, 19:51
Of course it is. A unit can only attempt to cast a certain power once, and a psyker will have a number of powers equal to their ML (and sometimes ML+1). However, it does not say 'A psyker is limited to the number of times they can cast, determined by mastery level." Take Ahriman for example, being able to cast a witchfire three times (instead of just once). I see no reason why he can't toss three witchfires, then another three of a different witchfire (Provided you have the dice).

This.

If they wanted a ML(3) psyker to only be able to cast 3 powers (despite actually knowing 4-5 most of the time) they would've said so in the BRB, loud and clear, and with a emphasis.

"Depends on his mastery level" means just that - the higher ML, the more powers the psykers know, the more powers can the psyker (try to) manifest.
A ML(3) psyker will always be able to manifest more powers than a ML(1) psyker, but they aren't restricted to their ML.

Right now, more masterylevels give you the following benefits:

*More warpcharges.
*Better DtW (if targeted)
*More psychic powers, which indirectly also means more attempts to manifest powers. Not because of the actual ML's, but because the psyker simply knows more powers.

Souba
01-06-2014, 19:54
This.

If they wanted a ML(3) psyker to only be able to cast 3 powers (despite actually knowing 4-5 most of the time) they would've said so in the BRB, loud and clear, and with a emphasis.

"Depends on his mastery level" means just that - the higher ML, the more powers the psykers know, the more powers can the psyker (try to) manifest.
A ML(3) psyker will always be able to manifest more powers than a ML(1) psyker, but they aren't restricted to their ML.

must be nice just ripping stuff out of a whole sentence doesnt it? making a "Depends on his mastery level" out of "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level" is just magic.

you guys dont get that having multiple powers to chose from is a TACTICAL advantage. there are psykers that dont got psychic focus because they take multiple disciplines for instance. so a ML 3 psyker still only got 3 powers and is limited in his actions whilst a psychic focus psyker has more powers to chose from does not make him a ML 4.

whatever, im done. if you guys cant even think properly there is no reason to talk to you guys at all. must be awesome running blindly through the world and only reading/seeing what you want to see.
just going to be funny seeing you guys scream in terror how overpowered a Kairos for example is.. casting 6 powers per turn. just because you turn rules how you want them to read.

Minsc
01-06-2014, 20:11
whatever, im done. if you guys cant even think properly there is no reason to talk to you guys at all.

Bye.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Souba
01-06-2014, 20:33
Bye.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

just shows how much you can add to a argument... but just as a last thing for you so your brain might actually start working:

why is is written : "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.

and not: "a psyker can use as many psychic powers each turn as he knows." ?

with that gn8

Itsacon
01-06-2014, 20:38
just shows how much you can add to a argument... but just as a last thing for you so your brain might actually start working:

why is is written : "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.

and not: "a psyker can use as many psychic powers each turn as he knows." ?

with that gn8

Because he can't always cast as many as he knows, since he might not have enough power dice.

Right back at you:

why is is written : "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.

and not: "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn is equal to his Mastery Level" ?


I'm sure you've had math at school:

If A = (B + 2), then the value of A depends on B. But it is not equal to B.

Minsc
01-06-2014, 20:39
just shows how much you can add to a argument...
[...]
with that gn8

I'm not the one who's hurling personal insults around.

Sleep tight.

Souba
01-06-2014, 20:48
Because he can't always cast as many as he knows, since he might not have enough power dice.

ah okay a psyker mastery level 1 that knows 2 powers can cast both powers because he has suddenly more warp charge dice than a psyker that knows 2 powers and can cast as many powers as he knows...
also a psyker mastery level 3 can cast 4 powers because of the primaris because he has "suddenly" more warp charge dice than a psyker that knows 4 powers and can cast as many powers as he knows...
...interresting.
did you realise in both sentences mentioned previouslythere is a can and not a must? that allready mentions if you have the requirements on using psychic powers, having enough warpcharges.


I'm not the one who's hurling personal insults around.

Sleep tight.

its just when someone doesnt add anything as argument in a discussion except for "dont let the door hit you on your way out" is aggravating. nothing personal. so sorry if i stumbled on your toes there.

Losing Command
01-06-2014, 21:11
There is also no mention whatsoever about ML being equal to numbers of powers a psyker can cast each turn in the 'casting psychic powers sequence' list. It basicly tells you to pick a power, point at a psyker who didn't cast that power yet and start rolling dice. That's what convinced me the most tbh.

Now to find a way to cram more warp-charges in the armylist so that Ahriman can cast 15 witchfire powers each turn :cheese:

DoctorTom
01-06-2014, 21:39
The number (X) of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level (X).

why do you guess are there mastery levels in numbers and not flufflike categorized in epsilon, delta, gamma, beta, etc... like it actually is in the fluff? yeah.. could be rule purposes.

No guess needed. Mastery levels help determine the number of powers you get. It increases the number of warp charges you get. If you have a power being cast on your unit, you get a bonus to Deny the Witch if your Mastery Level is higher than the person casting.

Now, can you show us in the rules where "depends on" is stated to be the same as "equal to", or someplace else in the rules where it states the number of powers you can cast is equal to (or less than) the number of powers you have.



must be nice just ripping stuff out of a whole sentence doesnt it? making a "Depends on his mastery level" out of "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level" is just magic.

What are you on about? Everybody's talking about how many psychic powers a Psyker can cast a turn. The key thing in that which you are still misinterpreting is the phrase "depends upon".


you guys dont get that having multiple powers to chose from is a TACTICAL advantage. there are psykers that dont got psychic focus because they take multiple disciplines for instance. so a ML 3 psyker still only got 3 powers and is limited in his actions whilst a psychic focus psyker has more powers to chose from does not make him a ML 4.


Yes, having multiple powers to choose from is a tactical advantage. It is also irrelevant to the discussion of how many you get to cast outside of the rule that you can't (without a stated exception in your entry or the entry of some piece of wargear that you have) cast any power you have more than once. That is your normal limit - either you run out of powers to cast or you run out of warp charge to be able to cast them. "Depends on Mastery Level" is not an absolute limitation.

But, you seem to be having a problem with "depends on". (Is English your native language? EDIT: This is a serious question, I'm not trying to be snarky with the question. If you're not, it might explain some things.) Here's what the MacMillan dictionary gives us as a result for "depends on":


depend on
- definition


phrasal verb [transitive]

or depend upon something

1
[never progressive] depend on something if one thing depends on another, it is changed or affected by the other thing

Their future depends on how well they do in school.
depend entirely/solely on something:

How much money you get depends entirely on your individual circumstances.
depend largely (=mainly) on something:

2
depend on someone/something to need someone or something in order to survive or be successful

The project's success depends on the support of everyone concerned.
depend on someone for something:

The young birds depend on their parents for food for several weeks.
depend on someone to do something:

The horses all depend on Mr. Jackson to take care of them.

3
depend on someone if you can depend on someone to do something, you are sure that they will do it

I wasn't worried, I knew I could depend on you.

4
as if your life depends on it with as much effort as possible

She began to sing as if her life depended on it.

5
depending on according to

Prices vary depending on the area you choose.


I don't see anywhere in there where it states "depends on" is "equal to". (EDIT: The rules would be working off the first definition - it is affected by Mastery Level, That's not the same as equal to Mastery Level, though.) Do you have someplace where it's defined as such?

But, a Level 1 sorceror can, if he rolls enough warp charge, has a force weapon and is otherwise specialized in one area (giving him a primaris) able to do 3 things - activate his force weapon and cast both powers. Obviously he can't do this if he rolls a 1 on the d6 his side gets and he's the only psyker in the army, but if he rolls a 6 he could try to cast all 3, putting 2 dice into 2 of them and 3 dice into the third (or 3 dice into 2 of them and one into the third).

=Angel=
01-06-2014, 21:48
The number of burgers you may eat at mcDonalds depends on the dollars you have brought.

Well yes, but that tells us nothing about how it depends on the dollars.
How many burgers do I get for a dollar? Is it two? One burger for two dollars?
Say I have three dollars? Is that enough to buy all the burgers in the restaurant? It might be, unless I see a menu.

The sentence needs more information.

Itsacon
01-06-2014, 22:22
ah okay a psyker mastery level 1 that knows 2 powers can cast both powers because he has suddenly more warp charge dice than a psyker that knows 2 powers and can cast as many powers as he knows...
also a psyker mastery level 3 can cast 4 powers because of the primaris because he has "suddenly" more warp charge dice than a psyker that knows 4 powers and can cast as many powers as he knows...
...interresting.
did you realise in both sentences mentioned previouslythere is a can and not a must? that allready mentions if you have the requirements on using psychic powers, having enough warpcharges.

A level three psyker who knows three WC 3 powers and rolls anything less than a 6 in the psychic phase can't cast three powers, since that would require a minimum of 9 power dice.

A level one psyker who knows two WC 1 powers can always try to cast both his powers.

That's what I mean by `can'.

I repeat my question:

why is is written : "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.

and not: "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn is equal to his Mastery Level" ?

don_mondo
02-06-2014, 15:48
just shows how much you can add to a argument... but just as a last thing for you so your brain might actually start working:

why is is written : "The number of psychic powers a Psyker can use each turn depends on his Mastery Level.

and not: "a psyker can use as many psychic powers each turn as he knows." ?

Actually it does say that a few pages later.....

"If, After attempting to manifest a psychic power, you still have Warp Charge points left, you can attempt to manifest another psychic power with the same unit... but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic Phase." (BRB pg. 24 last paragraph under the first column)

Asura Varuna
02-06-2014, 16:26
If they wanted to limit the number of powers a specific psyker could manifest in a single turn, the section written about manifesting psychic powers would have some mention of this limitation. There would be more to that argument than just one badly worded sentence, and it would probably have been listed in the summary describing how powers are manifested. The only limiting factors in that section of the rules (can't quote a page reference because I have the ebook version), is the number of warp charges available and that powers cannot be manifested more than once by the same unit.

ashc
02-06-2014, 16:32
Actually it does say that a few pages later.....

"If, After attempting to manifest a psychic power, you still have Warp Charge points left, you can attempt to manifest another psychic power with the same unit... but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic Phase." (BRB pg. 24 last paragraph under the first column)

and there you have it.

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