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View Full Version : SUPER Cheesy? Or just stupid? 2500 points.



Fupduck
29-05-2014, 11:58
Simply out of curiosity (@Fupduck random 2 min. noodle posts):

Lords
Prince (General) - Ogre Blade, Shield, Heavy Armour, Tailsman of Preservation, The Other Trickster's Shard, Elven Steed, Ithilmar Barding
Archmage (Lore of Life) - Level 4 Wizard, Dispel Scroll, Elven Steed, Ithilmar Barding

Heroes
Noble - Lance, Shield, Heavy Armour, Elven Steed, Ithilmar Barding, BSB, BotW
Noble - Great Weapon, Elven Steed, Ithilmar Barding
Noble - Great Weapon, Elven Steed, Ithilmar Barding [The above 5 characters go into the Silver Helm deathstar]
Noble - Star Lance, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Great Eagle

Core Units
15x Silver Helms - Shields, FC
5x Ellyrian Reavers - Bow instead of spear
5x Ellyrian Reavers - Bow instead of spear
5x Ellyrian Reavers

Special Units
Lothern Skycutter - Bolt Thrower
Lothern Skycutter - Bolt Thrower

Rare Units
Frostheart Phoenix
Frostheart Phoenix
Great Eagle - Swiftsense
Great Eagle - Swiftsense

Exactly 2500 points on the nail. Core is at the minimun 625. Shredding Talons on the Great Eagles, as well as Swiftsense on one of the Noble's Eagle, had to be dropped so that I could fit within the points limit.

So... a lot of hitting hard and hitting fast. Will this list work? Or is this downright stupid?

Slashattack
29-05-2014, 12:40
Its definitely cheesy, but not of the blue variety.

That bus can be wrecked by one good ignore ward save spell such as Dwellers or Final Transmutation.

Also, do you really want to put that many points in one unit! It just seems wrong and quite boring.

Slash

Snake1311
29-05-2014, 12:57
I ran something similar, however under ETC comp, so it had different rare selection choices (2nd Frost Phoenix was 3 Bolt Throwers).

The concept is solid, but needs work on getting the details right to be winning. I'll go through bit by bit:

Lords:

- Prince: Shard is a no-no, you end up rerolling your own ward saves. Talisman of preservation is also often redundant due to the banner. What you want out of this guy is to max out his armour (either dragonhelm or enchanted shield), give him a dawnstone (rerollable 1+ should do OK against most mundane attacks) and upgrade him to giants blade - so he starts really shining, even aaginst high T and armour - this is after all the only reasonable damage output you have if you aren't charging.

- Archmage: this kind of army list is actually more vulnerable to magic than it looks - obvious threats like dwellers are bad times, but hexes also hurt bigtime as they apply to nearly all your points. If you can, fit the book on him; if not sceptre of stability is very nice on your main dispeller. Barding is unnecessary, he will virtually always be in the second rank. Crown of command for such a list is an absolute must, mine was on my mage.
A lot of your games you will also get chaffed by trash units, so you need a magic lore that actually collects points at range - otherwise you take whatever trash gets put in front of your bus, rest of your units outside it get taken off, and you lose. I tried heavens, then high, then life, and finally stopped on death and havent looked back since. The snipes collect points that go on your scoresheet (as opposed to softening units which then run away), and as added two big plusses you can 1) throw purple suns through your own unit with near-impunity, e.g. at units which have flanked you, or through combat, and 2) can on occasion help terrorbomb something with the phoenixes with doom and darkness. Soulblight is nice too and works well with the high armour/low strength of the unit.

Heroes:

BSB: sits on second rank, carries a banner. all good.

Nobles: Great Weapons are bad times, 3+ armour means Low S mundane attacks start dropping these guys and you bleed points. Lance + Shield all the way, except maybe on one guy in the second rank if you want to be playing around with initiative steps and step-ups. Also, unless your hero allowance is packed, do give them dragon armour - its a minor, minor amount of points for a 6++ and flaming resistance which comes in handy now and again. The guy on an eagle shouldn't be on an eagle, but should join the unit. Some cheap gear on them is also decent, as the returns on points are very high proportionately. I ran my starlance guy with ench shield like yourself, and also a luckstone; and I also had a dude with charmed shield (its only 3 points more than the mindane one, why the hell not!) and the ring of fury - the ring is nice early turns if there is nothing in charge range,and this guy oten used to elave the unit if it was safe and bomb away at small units.

Mage: you need a support mage to 1) carry your dispell scroll, 2) exert ranged pressure, preferrably from combat, and 3) make sure your level 4has the right spells. A level 2 on death on a horse with a scroll is just fine - roll his spells first, take one you dont want and the other becomes a second spirit leech (goes off easily on 3 dice at 24", and tests on Ld10 thanks to the prince).

Core:

Silver Helms: you want to get that unit to be a little bit bigger if possible - I ran 18 under a fairly strict comp pack; would have probably gone up to at least 19 with the 6 characters in them.

Reavers: fine. I ran two units of archers instead, but reavers can do the trick, especially as you have no BTs to protect. The job of the remainder of the core is to tackle/shoot down enemy trash units to keep them away from blocking the bus up, so anything from archers, reavers, or another small helms unit is fine

Specials:

These need to be minimal, as you want to have as few points as possible outside of the helm bus - as they are easy to get usually. I've ersonally been somewhat dissapointed by skycutters, but they are fine. I ran a unit of 5 shadow warriors with the aim tomostly stress out enemy deployment, block up their vanguards, force them to protect warmachines etc - and I was quite happy with how they turned out.

Happy gaming!

Wesser
29-05-2014, 13:34
Looks super boring...

Also I play Empire, VC and Wood Elves

I'm trying to find out which army is the least scared of that deathstar cuz there's sure as hell none of them that's scared....

Fupduck
30-05-2014, 07:11
Looks super boring...


The fun is in the idea. I don't think I'm ever going to actually buy this list. If you really want the full story, my friend and I were talking about cheese (the gaming variety). He had to pop out to the shop and while my noodles were in the microwave, I banged this list together.

Anyway, @Snake:

I suppose that I took GWs to the end that, eventually, I'll run up against a Stubborn 40 man unit (Temple Guard and Hammerers come to mind), and I won't be able to slam 'em all out in a turn's worth of combat. As a result, I took GWs to have that constant S6... though now, when I think about it, my nobles aren't going to survive for that long anyway if I give 'em GWs.

Trickster's Shard... oops?

I'll certainly try Lore of Death.

And, of course, your other suggestions. Thanks a bunch.

Snake1311
30-05-2014, 11:02
eventually, I'll run up against a Stubborn 40 man unit (Temple Guard and Hammerers come to mind), and I won't be able to slam 'em all out in a turn's worth of combat. As a result, I took GWs to have that constant S6... though now, when I think about it, my nobles aren't going to survive for that long anyway if I give 'em GWs.


The High Elf bus isn't a grind list - you don't rush forward and smash into heavy units T2-3. In those kind of matchups, you clean chaff and stay at range for the first half of the game - leech characters, purple sun units like the ones you mentioned - then in T5 you commit into the big block. If you take it out in 1-2 rounds of combat, good on you, you get a massacre; if you don't, the game ends before they grind you out, and you get a small win.

And of course, Purple Sun gets cast from combat into combat no problem.

Fupduck
02-06-2014, 12:33
My humble thanks again Snake.

Of course, with the topic of cheesy (which translates to boring for many of you out there) lists at hand, I thought I just might...

Lords
Supreme Sorceress (General, Lore of Death) - Level 4 Wizard, Dispel Scroll, Cloak of Twilight, Dark Pegasus
Heroes
Master - BSB, Lance, Charmed Shield [cannonball catching], Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Tailsman of Preservation, Dark Pegasus
Master - Lance, Shield, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Dark Pegasus
Master - Lance, Shield, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Dark Pegasus
Core Units
3 units of 5x Dark Riders - Repeater Crossbows
3 units of 6x Dark Riders - Repeater Crossbows
Special Units
War Hydra - Fiery Breath
War Hydra - Fiery Breath
8x Shades - AHW
Rare Units
5x Doomfire Warlocks
5x Doomfire Warlocks
Kharibdyss
Kharibdyss

Total: 2883 points

Sorry... couldn't resist.

SteveW
03-06-2014, 18:35
6 units of dark riders? Horrible idea. you now have 8 units of fast cav that will be getting in the way of each other and will undoubtedly end up causing a few nits to panic off the table.

Wesser
06-06-2014, 06:43
Meh, Don't see Dwarfs or Woodies being scared of that list, but in the right circumstances sure it can be annoying