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Mschaff
31-05-2014, 22:00
So I haven't seen much discussion on them and I was thinking of being one, but I don't want to spend 140 to find out its a piece of crap. So I was wondering what everyone's thoughts on them were. Are they any good? Are they competitive? Thanks.

Ivanzypher
31-05-2014, 22:10
Are they competitive? No idea. However they ARE big and stompy. And that's always a good thing.

NemoSD
31-05-2014, 23:18
So I haven't seen much discussion on them and I was thinking of being one, but I don't want to spend 140 to find out its a piece of crap. So I was wondering what everyone's thoughts on them were. Are they any good? Are they competitive? Thanks.

I've played against a couple, and one of them is 'meh' if the opponent decides he doesn't want to deal with, as most armies have enough firepower to down it in a turn or two. Two or and they become horrible, because now your opponent has to choose between the Knights or ground troops, and ignoring either is bad, resulting a split fire to deal with transports and the knight.

Spoik
01-06-2014, 20:45
Having unleashed my Knights a few times, I find a single Knight can be very effective, or can die fairly easily (although I think they'll a smidge tougher under the new edition rules). As stated above, two Knights are a more significant threat. Either way, they can be useful if you go in for a bit of psychological warfare, as they seem very threatening.

I am starting to prefer the Errant, as it's a potent ranged threat to vehicles (and anything else, for that matter). Killing vehicles is what Knights do best. Against infantry and the like, they aren't reliably super-killy. They are ALWAYS lots of fun, allowing you to make squishy noises as you trample on stuff.

kaimarion
01-06-2014, 22:27
Knights are awesome. The main problem I see is people refusing to play against pure knight lists.
They'll be even more fun to use once FW finally releases the ones seen at the open day :D .

lethlis
02-06-2014, 05:52
Yep, I think 1-2 are fine in a list as long as you have other components that draw attention from anti-tank weapons. Knights are only as strong as the troops that support them has been my experience.

I am also waiting with crying wallet for the new knight variants to come out

Jind_Singh
02-06-2014, 08:39
I've been using mine quite alot - the version with Thermal cannon as I love Multi-melta weapons!

It's a mixed blessing:

- it attracts a lot of attention
- It's not as tough as one would hope so
- It's not packing much of a punch in close combat - and that was BEFORE 7th ed allowing invulnerable saves vs D close combat
- But it can mangle units up good if that gun works
- Moving through cover REALLY hampers it as it goes from 12" move to D6 - and being so big it can take some time to exit the terrain piece

But I can't imagine not using one -2 would be fantastic - and I can't wait to see how it fares in 7th ed

Stormxlr
02-06-2014, 08:42
Ive been playing with my knight the day the model was released :) I got him to ally in with my DA and its been amazing best support "vehicle" ever! Imho best money spent on a model for price/point value 4++ 13/12/12, multi targetting, all are amazing.
I havent lost a single game when I field him... Okay I did but only because I went for kills not objectives. Victory is not in poker chips, but when the land is
drowned in blood of heretics is the victory won, sadly its hard to kill everything on the board in 5-6 turns.

@Jind_Singh (http://www.warseer.com/forums/member.php?52816-Jind_Singh) its pretty damn tough, put a libby with PFG and prescience and its nigh unkillable, if you roll a 6 to get Senechel is even better.
Its a target magnet and thats great! let em shoot everything in it while I roll up my Rhinos and Land raiders.
Also I prefer Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon, 72" str8 ap3 Ordinance Heavy 2, is much better than 36"/18" melta str 9,ap1.
Paladin> Errant, extra pie plate shot, extra Heavy Stubber.
Its a beast in melee, I was playing vs Eldar and got unlucky rolls in the begining of the game loosing my land raider, dakka banner, terminators and half of the tacticals. Decided to switch my knight from ranged support to frontlines and it killed everything in range, slaughtered Avatar and Wraithknight in melee, it single handedly won me the game.

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NazaryleLordofFate
02-06-2014, 10:14
I've played vs one they are fun to play against :)

Godzooky
02-06-2014, 10:54
So I haven't seen much discussion on them and I was thinking of being one

Not sure the current level of technology on Earth will allow that, but, if you do manage it, please provide pics. :):yes:

Aliarzathanil
02-06-2014, 10:56
I don't think difficult terrain slows monstrous creatures anymore.

daemonprinceyourself
02-06-2014, 13:52
I don't think difficult terrain slows monstrous creatures anymore.

Well considering Imperial Knights are super heavies and not monsterous creatures, I think that point is moot....

Spider-pope
02-06-2014, 17:34
How are the various communities feeling about pure Knight armies? Just curious because the really nifty Forgeworld Lancer is singing it's siren call to me, so a full army of Knights is pretty appealing.

Sir Didymus
02-06-2014, 17:41
I'd say booooring :p

But I'd say the same about any spam army, you'd bring ;)

Spider-pope
02-06-2014, 17:58
I'd say booooring :p

But I'd say the same about any spam army, you'd bring ;)

But would you play them? I'm just trying to gauge the sentiment towards Knight armies, so i don't go out and spend 300 on an army that will earn me death threats.

lethlis
02-06-2014, 18:25
If it is a legal army(with some restrictions like full blown unbound for the point of maximization) I will play against whatever. Then again I would see it as a novel challenge and if my list has no way to handle it then there are short comings in my list that need to be addressed. So that is my mindset, not sure how prevalent it is.

Personally I think an all knight army is not very strong. Anything more than three and you are really running into diminishing returns. I am personally super excited for the lancer to come out and all the other variants. A knight army is only as good as the units that support it so three gives you the ability to bring a lot of support.

NemoSD
02-06-2014, 18:55
I wouldn't run a full knight army, I would play one though. However, it is a list I have to prepare for. My normal lists are designed around the fact that the other list wont consist only of giant super-heavy vehicles, thus rendering 99% of my normal weapons moot. That is the problem with all Knight lists, in my opinion.

Now three or even four, operating in support of a guard/marine army, that sounds awesome, and my little guys still have something to shoot at.

Gungo
02-06-2014, 19:05
So how do you handle an all knight list? Flyers such as the vendetta, high strength barrage weapons that avoid hitting a shield facing, and multiple melta weapons? Basically a list you would take for any av14 armour?

Spider-pope
02-06-2014, 19:07
I wouldn't run a full knight army, I would play one though. However, it is a list I have to prepare for. My normal lists are designed around the fact that the other list wont consist only of giant super-heavy vehicles, thus rendering 99% of my normal weapons moot. That is the problem with all Knight lists, in my opinion.

Now three or even four, operating in support of a guard/marine army, that sounds awesome, and my little guys still have something to shoot at.

I certainly think that's a fair requirement, to let opponents know before hand and allow them to change their list to compensate. And i certainly wouldn't use the army for random pick ups, this would be for regular opponents. I just don't want to field an army that would be impossible to deal with. If that means letting opponents know in advance what i'm using, then that seems fine to me.

daemonprinceyourself
02-06-2014, 19:33
I certainly think that's a fair requirement, to let opponents know before hand and allow them to change their list to compensate. And i certainly wouldn't use the army for random pick ups, this would be for regular opponents. I just don't want to field an army that would be impossible to deal with. If that means letting opponents know in advance what i'm using, then that seems fine to me.

I think with a warning beforehand they are fine. Can make for some epic story driven games in fact.

Fingers
02-06-2014, 19:50
Knights took a huge nerf with he change to D weapons. Honestly I think their point costs should be reduced as such.

lethlis
02-06-2014, 20:29
Knights took a huge nerf with he change to D weapons. Honestly I think their point costs should be reduced as such.

and they got a HUGE boost from the changes to the weapons table. You very rarely actually hullpointed knights out. That takes about 12 results against av 12/13. No easy feat. What killed knights was the explode result on the table. Now that most weapons dont even have a shot at it and the weapons that could have a harder time they are much more survivable than they used to be

The ronin knight
02-06-2014, 23:24
I have quite a few knights. I find that they are so much fun to use. Get used to hating flyers though. It's a lot better now vector strike is worse, but not being able to fight back has stopped me tabling a few games. That said, if I was tabling and only didn't because of the flyers, I guess that says a lot about the army.

Horus31
02-06-2014, 23:37
Forge world Lancer has been released -

Woot!

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/CERASTUS_KNIGHT-LANCER.html

jeffersonian000
03-06-2014, 20:06
A pure Knight army is actually a Battleforged army, not Unbound. Although, without a Troops, the difference is mostly academic.

SJ


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stonehorse
04-06-2014, 01:04
Speaking as a Tyranid player, they are near enough unstoppable for my army. Best I can hope is to strip them of hull points. They are also a lot better in combat than my Monstrous Creatures, the changes to Smash have made what was a tough job into what feels like an incredibly tough job. Personally I would play against them, just to see what I could do, that being said I would go into said game knowing that I will be frustrated and more than likely have no fun.

Other armies may be able to deal with them, so they may be more open to play against them.

Wolf Lord Balrog
04-06-2014, 01:08
I think if I were ever going to use a Super-Heavy, getting a plastic Knight and converting it to a Lancer would be an attractive option.

NotMyIfurita
04-06-2014, 02:11
SH Walkers get Move Thru Cover.. so Knights will run thru those woods to krump you now :)

Tebrey
04-06-2014, 02:42
They are still only moving a maximum of 6" through cover, instead of 12" normally. They needed to fix this.

NotMyIfurita
04-06-2014, 03:01
And they really didnt include any information about units that move over 6" with Move Thru Cover... I guess I'm no better than GW cause I missed it too, LOL!

lethlis
04-06-2014, 03:05
After two incarnations of the rules I have to assume it is intentional at this point.

Really not a big deal IMO, they are all around better than before IMO and they fill a lot of gaps. Although it is rough to work one in with the two source limits.

Mauler
04-06-2014, 08:50
I think it's intentional; a Knight moving through a forest will be like a human moving through entangling weeds or foliage. It won't slow you completely but if you're crashing through trees and whatnot they'll be offering resistance to your forward momentum, plus the pilot may not be able to see his footing...

Ruins are possibly just as much of a trip hazard but the pilot will be keeping an eye on his footing here also thus compromising speed for stability...especially if you have weapons for arms and falling poses a serious risk of not getting upright again for the rest of the battle.

Grarik
04-06-2014, 14:29
Speaking as a Tyranid player, they are near enough unstoppable for my army. Best I can hope is to strip them of hull points. They are also a lot better in combat than my Monstrous Creatures, the changes to Smash have made what was a tough job into what feels like an incredibly tough job. Personally I would play against them, just to see what I could do, that being said I would go into said game knowing that I will be frustrated and more than likely have no fun.

Other armies may be able to deal with them, so they may be more open to play against them.
I've noticed this too, thankfully where I play almost no one uses them. I've heard that a suicide rush by a full brood of carnifexes has a decent chance of wrecking it, although that's obviously a less than wonderful method, especially if you were facing an entire army of them.

Ananiel
04-06-2014, 14:37
To answer the question posed, I don't know. I was and am very much against Knights in 40k. GW has decided to shift the Meta a bit, and I am going to play 'old school' mostly, as that's what I enjoy. In a store, if someone told me he was looking for a game with a knight list, I would probably decline. But its not absolute. If a buddy (or known store acquaintance) asked me to play versus his knight list I may accept if I was looking for a waffle print on my face that night. :)

Ananiel