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Sam Spade
02-06-2014, 04:25
I was wondering which armies do you think take the most skill to play? I am getting tired of my Ogres and looking for a new army that is something different than just push straight forward. I'm not just looking for someone to say Beastmen or Brets because they are the oldest books. I have lost to both of them, so I know that if played well, just like every other army, they can be good. I like the idea of Wood Elves, haven't played against their new book, after seeing bat reps on Youtube I just don't understand them I guess. I mean I am so used to the take your most powerful unit and line it up against theirs style that with the WE I just don't get how it is played. Also a magic heavy TK army is kind of interesting as well.

I'll stop rambling now, just curious what you guys thought are armies that take a lot of skill a thought to play?

NemoSD
02-06-2014, 04:51
I was wondering which armies do you think take the most skill to play? I am getting tired of my Ogres and looking for a new army that is something different than just push straight forward. I'm not just looking for someone to say Beastmen or Brets because they are the oldest books. I have lost to both of them, so I know that if played well, just like every other army, they can be good. I like the idea of Wood Elves, haven't played against their new book, after seeing bat reps on Youtube I just don't understand them I guess. I mean I am so used to the take your most powerful unit and line it up against theirs style that with the WE I just don't get how it is played. Also a magic heavy TK army is kind of interesting as well.

I'll stop rambling now, just curious what you guys thought are armies that take a lot of skill a thought to play?

Take the SM/Butcher out, and run a 6-9 sized Irongut unit, and watch Ogre skill needs sky rocket.

Also, High Elves, outside of a couple of niche combinations, are actually an army that takes a lot of on the table skill. Everyone talks about broken combos, but if you can not deploy and move smart, those combos mean jack.

CountUlrich
02-06-2014, 04:54
You hit two of the big ones in Wood Elves and Tomb Kings. I feel Vampire Counts are an army that takes alot of skill to use as well. Yes, VL's can 'wreck face', but outside of that and the Terrorgheist, none of the units on their own really stand out. You are very reliant upon synergizing well, tactically deploying and target selecting well, and building the lists to synergize correctly.

Sexiest_hero
02-06-2014, 04:54
Any army without the internet build takes skill to play. It's the builds that remove skill not the army.

Snake1311
02-06-2014, 09:45
Ogres take quite a lot of skill. They are quite squishy for their points, they've got leadership to worry about, they've got access to a decent performance in each of the 4 phases.

Thats of course if you aren't running 10+gutstar +3x4mournfang + 2 ironblasters. That build plays like a steamroller (at least in club games), but its not the only viable one in the book.

I think all armies (and lists!) take a lot of skill; some just have an easier learning curve, so that skill doesn't show until you come up agaisnt a decent opponent.

That said, if you are looking for MSU-type armies to contrast your ogres, and you dont want to to Ogre MSU, woodies, dark elves, WoC and DoC do that quite well.

Lorcryst
02-06-2014, 10:04
If you have the cash, pure Night Goblin army ... Animosity will wreck your plans, so you'll have to think on your feet, and the quality of the troops is ... poor to say the least.

WS 2 S3 T3 I3 A1 LD 5 is quite a challenge in itself.

MOMUS
02-06-2014, 10:29
I second the MSU suggestion, MSU lizzies or daemons could be your thing.

Fupduck
02-06-2014, 13:40
And one must not forget those wood elves. They seem to be, almost inherently, a MSU army given that they have little brick infantry. They have next to no armour or an abundance in Matt Ward saves, making their strategy revolve around a tricky combination of shooting and flank charges (or so my recent scouring of the WE tactics seem to suggest). Even the most cookie cutter of netlists (as far as cookie cutter and Wood Elves go together) seems to, still, pose an interesting challenge.

monkey10120
02-06-2014, 15:22
And one must not forget those wood elves. They seem to be, almost inherently, a MSU army given that they have little brick infantry. They have next to no armour or an abundance in Matt Ward saves, making their strategy revolve around a tricky combination of shooting and flank charges (or so my recent scouring of the WE tactics seem to suggest). Even the most cookie cutter of netlists (as far as cookie cutter and Wood Elves go together) seems to, still, pose an interesting challenge.

I have been loving my new WE since the update. They at least now have a glimmer of hope of showing up in the competitive scene. It is true about no armor saves and very few things even having a 6++ save. It can be tough at times because you have to pull your opponents army apart then focus each unit down with a combo of 2-3 charges and shooting. They became my new favorite army after playing Lizarmen for so long. I just enjoy actually moving :P

I do have to agree with Sexiest_Hero though. Its like most games that rely on rng such as magic the gathering for ex. You could give a new guy who has never played the game before a Vampire tournament deck and he would still beat good players non-tourny decks. The skill in Warhammer is trying to increase your chances with everything you do to win and the way your army is built is a huge part of it.

Snake1311
02-06-2014, 16:44
Well, army building is part of the skill - and some lists are more forgiving than others, so are more prone to getting netlisted.

That said, many of the 'netlists' are far from auto-pilot; and the ones that claim to be can't autopilot against good opponents - many have alternative strategies and backup plans built into them.


They at least now have a glimmer of hope of showing up in the competitive scene.

New woodies are scary. Good long ranged pressure, access to a lot of lores, and Wild Riders are relatively fragile but hit like a freight train (better than warrior skullcrushers for their points and frontage!)