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View Full Version : Combining the army books?



dalezzz
03-06-2014, 13:07
I noticed this brought up again earlier and wondered what people thought? Personally I think it's a bad idea for anyone except chaos/demons/beastmen as it will surely just lead to units being removed and loss of identity ? After all is there that much difference between the different types of elf spearmen? I'm sure some people will think that's a good reason to merge the books of course :p

However after reading about so many people complaining that eternal guard no longer had a weapon that gave them an extra attack but just had 2 attacks, I realised these little things are important to folk.

Imperator64
03-06-2014, 13:25
They only have one attack.

Avian
03-06-2014, 13:33
I don't see any profit in combining army books. If GW wanted to make more money from the books, they'd allow extensive allying but keep the books separate and just update them frequently.

ashc
03-06-2014, 13:42
If anything they seem to be on the path of releasing more and more army books and supplements. I think it is easy money for them in comparison to model development.

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HelloKitty
03-06-2014, 13:49
Anticipate an ally system like 40k.

theJ
03-06-2014, 13:51
Frankly? I don't see the point.
All it would do from GWs perspective is give them less books to sell, and all it would do from our perspective is A; fill our books with pointless drivel about armies we ain't interested in, maybe B; give us less "fluff" about the armies we DO care about, and possibly even C; Remove flavour, options, and character from our beloved armies, depending on how the books themselves work out.

I suppose there is the arguement that it'd encourage some players to pick up more armies(since they've now got the rules for them, anyway), but that's a really tiny advantage next to the mountain of disadvantages, AND is far better achieved through other means(skirmish, ally rules(however much I hate their implementation in 40K), etc.)

ashc
03-06-2014, 14:39
Anticipate an ally system like 40k.

I think this is a certainty.

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Jind_Singh
03-06-2014, 18:15
yeah I can see allied systems in 9th - but mind you 8th already has a component of that.

It will be interesting to see what happens with 9th - as to me 8th is already a solid edition.

Really excited actually as I wasn't thinking 8th would change the game for me so much the way it did

Adohi-Tehe
04-06-2014, 03:04
If anything they seem to be on the path of releasing more and more army books and supplements. I think it is easy money for them in comparison to model development.

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This would be interesting and I think supplements are quite doable for Warhammer. There would be lots of options as there are many different realms/provinces/groups within the existing army books that could be expanded on. For example, they could do supplements for existing books like Dark Elves: Cult of Pleasure, Lizardmen: The Southlands or Warriors of Chaos: Children of Hashut (I am sure the latter and some accompanying models would make many people happy).

PlasticSwap.Com
04-06-2014, 17:16
I don't see any profit in combining army books. If GW wanted to make more money from the books, they'd allow extensive allying but keep the books separate and just update them frequently.

^^^ This. GW makes a huge amount of money for each book sold. The time spent writing the book is mostly in the art and the "rules balancing." However if GW moves to a full ally type system with unbound armies this means they can speed the progress of releasing books and therefor making addition profit.

Alltaken
05-06-2014, 17:11
For us the gain is faster rules update for all. Cram a couple of armies together and posible alliance builds between them and it might be an interesting thing

From my servoskull

Avian
05-06-2014, 20:21
I don't think I'd want faster updates once we've updated all the books for the current edition. I'd much prefer it if they left the books alone and just came out with more models.
(Like PP is doing...)

Ramius4
05-06-2014, 20:46
I'd much prefer it if they left the books alone and just came out with more models.

Amen to that.

The one thing I would add is if they ever did leave the army books 'as is', it would be nice to see a few erratas put out online. Just to tweak and adjust balance here and there.

Alltaken
05-06-2014, 22:13
I don't think I'd want faster updates once we've updated all the books for the current edition. I'd much prefer it if they left the books alone and just came out with more models.
(Like PP is doing...)

By faster I meant tomb kings, dwarfs, beastmen, wood elves, bretonia, skaven getting an update every edition. Not once a year

From my servoskull

Avian
05-06-2014, 23:00
Well, that is the *current* speed, is it not? It's not at all unlikely that all armies will get an update during 8th edition without any need to combine books.

Alltaken
06-06-2014, 00:44
Well, that is the *current* speed, is it not? It's not at all unlikely that all armies will get an update during 8th edition without any need to combine books.

8th is kinda out of the norm, 6th was a case of global invalidation

From my servoskull

SuperHappyTime
06-06-2014, 02:18
As usual, I agree and disagree with everyone. :D

On the one hand, having to need only two books (one for game rules, one for model rules) would be awesome to start a new army. I don't have to start by plunking $50 to start a new army, I can build it from my Model Rules book.

On the other hand, the good fluff is pretty much gone, and the game becomes just a game. Then I'm asking why I can't combine the best of High Elves, best of Ogre Kingdoms, and the best of WoC into a single Crush-All-Comers Bestest Army List of All Tiem!!! Basically, I'm playing 40K 7th Edition (rimshot)


I don't think I'd want faster updates once we've updated all the books for the current edition. I'd much prefer it if they left the books alone and just came out with more models.
(Like PP is doing...)

I like this idea, but I can't help but point out the obvious; The big problem with doing this is that the armies aren't even close to balanced at this point.

TKs and Beasties are too jank, Greenskins and Skaven are too random, and WoC, Elves, and *insert_the_bane_of_your_existence_here* are too OP.

And a single/two new unit(s) isn't going to help fix the above. It's going to increase the problems of power-creep and make more "WTF GW!" threads.

Sir_Glonojad
06-06-2014, 05:49
Avian, why would You care? You quit Warhammer already :p


Seriously, though - I doubt GW would do that. Granted, having five books instead of fifteen might get the rules updated faster, but... rules update was never a priority for GW. Sorry. They're all about selling miniatures. Other than that there's little to gain from combining books fof both GW and gamers.

ashc
06-06-2014, 06:46
Sorry to snip, but


.... They're all about selling miniatures...

Actually I think they do a very good turn on selling overpriced army books, supplements, and rulebooks to people too. This will be why they won't condense four or five armies to one book.

Chaos used to all be in one book and look at what happened... why sell you one book when we can sell you three...

Avian
06-06-2014, 06:49
Avian, why would You care? You quit Warhammer already :p
I have three painted armies and if 9th edition is good I'll be back in ten seconds.

Ultimate Life Form
06-06-2014, 06:50
I have three painted armies and if 9th edition is good I'll be back in ten seconds.

Bye-bye. :rolleyes:

Snake1311
06-06-2014, 11:03
I like this idea, but I can't help but point out the obvious; The big problem with doing this is that the armies aren't even close to balanced at this point.

TKs and Beasties are too jank, Greenskins and Skaven are too random, and WoC, Elves, and *insert_the_bane_of_your_existence_here* are too OP.

And a single/two new unit(s) isn't going to help fix the above. It's going to increase the problems of power-creep and make more "WTF GW!" threads.

They are *reasonably* balanced. Beasties don't have a new book yet, neither do Skaven, so not a fair comparison. "Too random" isn't actually an issue with skaven or OnG, because they have redundancy built into their design via cheap point costs. WoC mostly come through as broken in club games where people just run into each other in a straight line (exaggeration obviously, but you gte the point). High Elves and Wood Elves are balanced books.

...so, the only potential outliers from your arguement are TK (which could get better as the meta shifts toward elfses) and Dark Elves, where warlocks and Sea Dragon Cloaks are a bit of a design boo-boo. Not perfect, but not exactly a tragic state :)



I do think Avian meant release models, not new units - there are plenty of unit entries out there without the relevant model, and a lot more with old metals, and then a bunch of newer ones where plastics are just ugly and could use a new kit.

Sir_Glonojad
06-06-2014, 17:40
Sorry to snip, but



Actually I think they do a very good turn on selling overpriced army books, supplements, and rulebooks to people too. This will be why they won't condense four or five armies to one book.


Well, yes, but this uctually underlines my statement, doesn't it? It's not in the interest of GW and not necessarily in the interest of gamers.