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View Full Version : Imperial Knight model alternative for $34.99 + tax



shinankoku
03-06-2014, 18:51
Okay, it was $34.99, the $1.99 I spent at Hobby Lobby for the base plus bits. This is that obnoxious Fox (American) Football-Robot 'Cleatus' thing. I got him over at the local sports fan shop. A few extra bits, a good paint job (as I hail from the eighties, I'm thinking a 'Team Bonzai' theme) and he's good-to-go. He stands 10.5", and I think he'll be a perfectly acceptable Imperial Knight (not to be used at your local GW shop)http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/04/ytyba7ub.jpg


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Minsc
03-06-2014, 19:08
Urgh.

I personally found that model absolutely hideous, but maybe that's just me.

Sir Didymus
03-06-2014, 19:09
"Perfectly acceptable"?

As a piece of scenery perhaps. I'm not sold on the concept :p

Theocracity
03-06-2014, 19:09
Urgh.

I personally found that model absolutely hideous, but maybe that's just me.

It's not just you. The Fox football robot is annoying enough on the TV.

HelloKitty
03-06-2014, 19:31
It likes football. It likes watching the creatures play - but it does not like this model thing.

Lord Damocles
03-06-2014, 19:34
...it doesn't look all that much like a Knight, to be honest.

shinankoku
03-06-2014, 19:41
No, I guess it doesn't *look* like an Imperial Knight. I guess I meant it was an acceptable size, robot-like, etc. I did just shot-gun some weapons on there. I suspect that with some proper modification it would look better (i.e., less Cleatus-like). Eh, I'm cheap and don't want to spend $140 on a model.


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Spider-pope
03-06-2014, 20:17
I like to own models that look good...that does not look good. Being cheaper isn't enough.

DoctorTom
03-06-2014, 20:18
It looks closer to a Revenant Titan than to an Imperial Knight (and frankly, not that close to that either). For $34.99 + tax + cost of base, though, if your group is okay with it, more power to you! You've saved up enough money where you could still spend a good amount on conversions.

nagash66
03-06-2014, 21:37
Urgh, just no.

chadenej
03-06-2014, 22:02
Wow guess what, I also found a PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE replacement for Imperial Knight model. Plus, it comes already painted.

194319

mods: please close this thread...

=Angel=
03-06-2014, 22:16
Might I direct good sirs to the Dreamforge site where you can get lovely giant robots with a gothic appearance for less than a small car.
The main problem with that particular robot is that it has human proportioned feet. Every human mech in 40k has big stompy feet for stability and they are not anthropomorphised(human style)

Kahadras
03-06-2014, 23:11
Might I direct good sirs to the Dreamforge site

I'd second that!

T10
03-06-2014, 23:20
Still, it's an interresting piece if that could work for some homebrew non-grimdark human faction. Paint it up and see where that takes you. Even the Taurox looks better when painted properly.

Menthak
03-06-2014, 23:29
Wow guess what, I also found a PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE replacement for Imperial Knight model. Plus, it comes already painted.

194319

mods: please close this thread...

If you used this in a game against me I'd refuse to play. Simple.

shinankoku
03-06-2014, 23:41
Angel - I appreciate your suggestion, as well as your polite tone in your post. Honestly, the longer legs is one of the things that attracted me to this model. Well, toy.

T10 - thank you for the support. It did occur to me that I should've finished the piece before putting it up. (I've been busy with fantasy of late) And I, personally, do get tired of the gothic thing - one of the reasons I primarily play Eldar. Although, I must say, all the feedback has inspired me to make this thing look cool as hell ... ;)


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Spider-pope
04-06-2014, 00:17
Angel - I appreciate your suggestion, as well as your polite tone in your post. Honestly, the longer legs is one of the things that attracted me to this model. Well, toy.

T10 - thank you for the support. It did occur to me that I should've finished the piece before putting it up. (I've been busy with fantasy of late) And I, personally, do get tired of the gothic thing - one of the reasons I primarily play Eldar. Although, I must say, all the feedback has inspired me to make this thing look cool as hell ... ;)


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I think it should be said that our comments are about the actual model, not on your work on the piece. If you can get it looking good, then well done and be sure to post pictures. But i can't say it's something i'd go with myself.

DoctorTom
04-06-2014, 15:57
If you used this in a game against me I'd refuse to play. Simple.

What if he used a variant?

194349


:p

totgeboren
04-06-2014, 16:15
Using alternative models as count-as is tricky business.

First of all you have to answer the question; "Is it the correct proportions and bulk?"
Secondly you have to answer; "Does this look like something that belongs in the w40k universe?"
Thirdly you have to answer; "Does this look like something that belong in my given faction?"
Fourth question, and probably the most important one; "Does it look as cool as the original model it is used to represent?"

If any of these questions is a 'No, not really' then people will have problems with you using it. I mean, I have self-sculpted Cthulhu daemons in my daemon army and when I use them I really think I'm pushing it, but since they look kinda nice people seem to think it's ok.

I would say this robot generally fails all four question, but with some good plasticard and greenstuff work it could be made workable. It really is important that the general outline of the model fits, otherwise it quickly degrades to playing with paper counters. I mean, Imperial war-machines don't have that slender hips, nor do they have football helmets, but this could in theory be fixed.

The bar is set kinda high. Consider that using old RT era Dreadnoughs as Dreadnoughts is something many people would complain about since they are the same size as a Centurion. And that's using a GW model as what it was sold as.

In my opinion count-as is something you can do if you have a lot of time and talent and want to use that instead of money to represent a model.

DoctorTom
04-06-2014, 16:35
I think there are a couple of problems with the model - one with an easier fix than the other. The upper part of the legs where there isn't armor over the joints is too long, especially since you don't see a similar thing for the arms. That might be able to be fixed by cutting out that portion of the leg and having the armor go up pretty much to the body.

The part that would be much harder to fix is that it seems like there's far too much tapering of the body going from the shoulders to the hips, at least for something Imperial.

Inquisitor Kallus
04-06-2014, 17:12
Might as well just use optimus prime..... Damn that thing looks awful

=Angel=
04-06-2014, 22:19
Angel - I appreciate your suggestion, as well as your polite tone in your post. Honestly, the longer legs is one of the things that attracted me to this model. Well, toy.

T10 - thank you for the support. It did occur to me that I should've finished the piece before putting it up. (I've been busy with fantasy of late) And I, personally, do get tired of the gothic thing - one of the reasons I primarily play Eldar. Although, I must say, all the feedback has inspired me to make this thing look cool as hell ... ;)


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No problem. I myself used one of those terminator salvation giant harvester robots as the basis for a reaver titan- that's still wip.
Are you planning for it to be an imperial knight?

In that case I would spread the hips as wide as they'll go- as they are jointed it looks like they are decently adaptable.
Put some armour on the signs, possibly the thighs. If you search for papercraft knights you should be able to find some suitable templates to adapt.
I'd also relocate the head to the centre torso for the classic imperial look. Imperial titans and dreadnoughts have the head in the torso because it makes them look like a gnarled old man bent double or an animal.
Eldar titans stand with their head high, eternally youthful and graceful.

Throwing a carapace on would be a good idea but consider just adding 'roman style' Pauldrons to the shoulders like the old school armour cast knights. They are easy enough to make.
Then get your tubetool (if you don't have one, buy one they are cheap and amazing) and add greenstuff tubes in strategic places as power conduits and hydraulics/pneumatics.

The feet could use some more 'toes' in a cruciform pattern like the standard dreadnought or a three foretoes, one hind toe pattern like the mk4 dreadnought/warhound.


Also- purity seals!

That's all my opinion though. I'm interested to see what you do with this!

UberlordGendo
04-06-2014, 22:40
Something about it also has the 80's vibe, I said, perhaps stating the obvious, so I'd play that up.
I agree with Angel--Needs bigger pauldrons.

PlasticSwap.Com
04-06-2014, 23:10
There is a lot you could do with that model, I don't mind it except the football head. I really don't like the slumped shoulders privateer press look of the imperial knight thought.

=Angel=
05-06-2014, 00:02
Something about it also has the 80's vibe, I said, perhaps stating the obvious, so I'd play that up.
I agree with Angel--Needs bigger pauldrons.

Yeah, steer away from the warmachine look. I can't quite quantify how the dreads and titans look so much better than warjacks despite them almost being mirrors of each other.

Warjacks are like the ugly sister to the gw's prom queen aesthetic- but that's all subjective.

The thing about this football bot's shoulders is that he has little pads that look like they'd be great spacers for gw style armoured plates or carapace or Pauldrons or whathave you.
You could cut a ping pong ball into thirds and use small screws to fix them on there. Possibilities.

mughi3
05-06-2014, 06:17
I would rather use the pacific rim toys, the stryker eurika has eldar written all over it.

tezdal
05-06-2014, 15:25
Needs MOAR skulls!

duffybear1988
05-06-2014, 19:07
Well personally 40k is such a joke these days that I really couldn't care less about what proxies my opponent is using. The GW kits aren't exactly stellar some of the time and still cost you a kidney.

I'm building an entire army of those crapanauts that the orks are getting out of cereal boxes. Would you refuse to play me?

Isn't it all about forging the narrative and making it a beer and pretzel game? Maybe his knight is from a world that has advanced tech and doesn't need to look like a tank, or maybe a crazed mechanicus adept has discovered a really rare STC design. As long as it's about the right height and on the correct base what's the problem?

Personally if I was taking that model as a knight then I would say that a mechanicus magos has crafted it using his bonesinging skills. If Imperials can summon daemons then they can probably bonesing.

Menthak
05-06-2014, 19:08
What if he used a variant?

194349


:p

Would still rather die*.

*Before anyone calls me out on this, just remember we're all prone to hyperbole

TheBearminator
05-06-2014, 19:23
I think this model could work really well for people who are in the hobby exclusively because of the gaming part. And I fully respect that. Just like you can buy expensive furniture because you enjoy unique design, or you can buy a sofa at Ikea that is nice to sit in and still have money for a bed, a table and, some chairs. It's a great way to keep the hobby cheap. I once saw a guy playing orcs & goblins with an army with lots of spear chukkas made from plastic sprues. He was clearly enjoying his game just as much as anyone else, and from across the tablet I'd hardly see the difference.

Fingers
05-06-2014, 19:36
Personally I find the GW Knights cooler looking than the Dream Forge ones...for similar price.

DoctorTom
05-06-2014, 21:08
I'm building an entire army of those crapanauts that the orks are getting out of cereal boxes. Would you refuse to play me?

I thought the orks were using the cereal boxes themselves to make those Bjorkanauts.

Andy089
05-06-2014, 22:13
Honestly, I would rather use this thing as a c'tan once painted properly

LostTemplar
05-06-2014, 23:39
I don't like the model, but I'd be ok as long as it was suitably converted or similar to existing GW models (fit to whatever army you are playing). That being said I do feel the knight is worth every penny in aesthetics alone.

Fangschrecken
06-06-2014, 05:32
If any of these questions is a 'No, not really' then people will have problems with you using it. I mean, I have self-sculpted Cthulhu daemons in my daemon army and when I use them I really think I'm pushing it, but since they look kinda nice people seem to think it's ok.

Sure, but you're talking about daemons. I feel like most people think that daemons come in many ships and sizes beyond the four big ones so the bar is much much lower. (That said, yours look awesome).

Imperial Knights, however, seem to be set on one of two looks, either like the plastic one or the Cerastus Lancer from FW. The cerastus looks more agile, but even then is fits with the imperial look. Variants are fine and all, but the football robot could use some big slabs of plate or something to make it look more 40k.

Drasanil
06-06-2014, 07:26
It's an ok base, but not what I would call 'great' for normal imperial knights. That said, bulk out the upper torso with some plasticard, get rid of the hands (possibly even forearms), the gun and slap on a shield and a lance-thingy and it could make a decent stand in for forgeworld's new lancer model... but even that would take some work.

Used as is, I would find it pretty darn cheap and I likely wouldn't play against it, but if you used it as a based to make something more 40k like then I probably wouldn't mind at all, provided it had the right 40kish feel to it.

Ohris
06-06-2014, 08:20
I could see using that as a riptide more than an imperial knight.

Pancakey
07-06-2014, 20:47
The model is fine! Remember warhammer is YOUR game. Play and use what YOU want. Don't listen to all this negativity. If you like the model thats what counts!

Also a nice way to save $100 👍

shinankoku
07-06-2014, 21:02
I would like to thank everyone those who chimed in with polite posts. I honestly didn't expect everyone to like it - I was a little taken aback by some of the out-and-out vitriol some expressed. I really would like to thank those with constructive criticism and suggestions. That's worth a lot to me.

totgeboren - I respect your four question test, and I feel that I have something similar. I feel that 1) it should look good, 2) it should be unmistakable for what it proxies 3) it should be based fairly the same and 4) it shouldn't otherwise give any special advantages to the player using it. OK, it fails on 1 at the moment .... it's not painted, and I don't like the helmet, and I need to figure out the armament. For number 2, no one is not going to mistake that for anything other than a knight, not really. And it's based properly, see below, so 3 is ok. I need to to retract any shooting arm for measuring distances to respect 4. Now, I understand that GW has a very distinct universe, with different armies, themes, etc, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with your 2, 3, and 4. I have been reading Path of the Eldar recently, and my observation is that the 40K universe is far more Star Trek, with weird 'fantasy' stuff happening *all* the time, as opposed to more 'hard science fiction' stories, such as, I would argue Battlestar Gallactica (the remake). I argue that if I want Team Bonzai (see below) to show up in mechs and start kicking butt, its fine. Fine so long as the rules are followed and a codex is followed.

Angel - again, thank you for those suggestions (and polite tone) ... I'm going to take them into account. See my next comment about the aesthetics, please.

UberlordGendo - I am an eighties child, and loved Buckaroo Banzai: Adventures Across the Eighth Dimension. I am planning on doing a "Team Bonzai" theme. It seems perfectly acceptable to me (hells, there I go using "perfectly acceptable" again!) that BB and the Hong Kong Cavaliers find themselves in the 40th century. I can see Buckaroo making his own plans for the salvation of humanity, and part of that includes kicking butt in mechs!

mughi3, tezdal - Right??

duffybear1988 - I find your comment one of the most interesting. I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with what you say. I do not like the new ork what-ever-naughts. They DO look like cereal boxes. I don't like the 'everyone can summon a deamon' nonsense,
and I do make the argument that the base is about the right size ... it's actually a little large, which I consider more of a disadvantage then anything, so I'm personally OK with it. On the other hand, I do like a lot of the kits, and I do respect that a certain amount of effort should be put into making conversions look good. So ... I guess that's why I started this whole thread in the first place. To get an idea of what players I don't normally play with think about the idea I have ... it's been an interesting lesson for me, for sure!!

The Beaminator - Thank you!

LostTemplar - Thank you, too. That's sort of the attitude I was hoping for from the folks who didn't/don't like the aesthetics of what I"m doing. I mean, there isn't really any question about what it's suppose to be, and, like I said, if the base is a little big, well, that's only disadvantages the player (me), right?

Ohris - I need to find a better weapon .. just bolting on that Ion Cannon doesn't work ... I accept that now :)

shinankoku
07-06-2014, 21:04
Pancakey - THANK YOU!!! OMG, that is spot on!!! If you're ever in New Mexico, drop by, the beer is on me!

DoctorTom
08-06-2014, 16:12
UberlordGendo - I am an eighties child, and loved Buckaroo Banzai: Adventures Across the Eighth Dimension. I am planning on doing a "Team Bonzai" theme. It seems perfectly acceptable to me (hells, there I go using "perfectly acceptable" again!) that BB and the Hong Kong Cavaliers find themselves in the 40th century. I can see Buckaroo making his own plans for the salvation of humanity, and part of that includes kicking butt in mechs!



I could see using Militarum Tempestus for at least the Blue Blaze Irregulars (command team might be some of the Hong Kong Cavaliers), tooling around in Taurox Primes. Stormwing formation as a 'counts as' for air support from friendly (non-Whorfin) allies - it could be fun!

Flame Boy
08-06-2014, 20:48
I think if you move the head mounting down and add some extra mass up top you should have a base to work with. I think it will take some work, but it's not insurmountable. Bear in mind that I'm wearing my Big Mek thinking cap in preparation for the new Ork release, so be warned. :)

My first impression was to recoil from the image, but I think you could make a decent attempt once you've reposed and detailed it to have a more Knight-like silhouette.

Horus38
09-06-2014, 19:12
...and I think he'll be a perfectly acceptable Imperial Knight.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh :rolleyes:

duffybear1988
09-06-2014, 23:43
duffybear1988 - I find your comment one of the most interesting. I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with what you say. I do not like the new ork what-ever-naughts. They DO look like cereal boxes. I don't like the 'everyone can summon a deamon' nonsense, and I do make the argument that the base is about the right size ... it's actually a little large, which I consider more of a disadvantage then anything, so I'm personally OK with it. On the other hand, I do like a lot of the kits, and I do respect that a certain amount of effort should be put into making conversions look good. So ... I guess that's why I started this whole thread in the first place. To get an idea of what players I don't normally play with think about the idea I have ... it's been an interesting lesson for me, for sure!!


It's good to know somebody finds me interesting. :)

IcedCrow, Yabba, Theo and a whole bunch of others will say that the game is what you make it. I have always agreed to some extent, but where they are always liberal with the rules, I prefer to be flexible with figures. If it's the right proportions and looks vaguely like it fulfils the same role then what's the problem? To my mind there's no point getting peeved because the other guy bought a 15 kit and spent some time converting it up, whilst you just caved and blew your cash on 100 worth of GW stuff. As this brave new daemon summoning world has shown us, anything is possible in 40k so people can't really say it isn't 40k enough. When push comes to shove I would rather have an enjoyable game against a relaxed opponent with a converted army than I would against somebody who's just bringing his new broken combo. 'Counts as' done properly won't break the game. :)

shinankoku
10-06-2014, 01:01
Horus38 - glad to oblige! duffybear1998 - speaking of taking some liberties with the models and this brave new daemon summoning world, my next project (well, after finishing Dark Shats ... I mean, Shards, and Rawhide) will be trying to figure out what exactly my Farseers are summoning. I don't think it's going to be GW guys, that's for sure!


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Horus38
13-06-2014, 13:44
will be trying to figure out what exactly my Farseers are summoning. I don't think it's going to be GW guys, that's for sure!

I think the upcoming models from creature caster will finally push me over the edge into doing a small demon force, they've got some ace looking greater demon stand ins!
http://www.creaturecaster.com/collections/all

Cheeslord
13-06-2014, 14:08
I think the upcoming models from creature caster will finally push me over the edge into doing a small demon force, they've got some ace looking greater demon stand ins!
http://www.creaturecaster.com/collections/all

I notice all models are listed as sold out now ... either they are very popular, or creaturecaster have been intimidated into giving up by GW legal...(or both, of course!)

Mark.

<edit> ok, so apparently the company only got KS funded last month which explains why nothing is available yet ... oddly I am sure I got directed to this site last year...guess it was just a beta

deathspank
13-06-2014, 14:18
The model is fine! Remember warhammer is YOUR game. Play and use what YOU want. Don't listen to all this negativity. If you like the model thats what counts!

Also a nice way to save $100 

nonsense my good man, Warhammer is a communal game played by more than one player, his collection of models maybe his but the game certainly isnt, a proxy model can be very easily vetoed by an opponent and in personal experience the less a proxy look like its intended identity, the more likely the opponent is to tell you to sling your hook, the model in question is a terrible proxy for an imperial knight regardless of cost, Wheni first read his opening post i honestly thought he was either joking or trolling the forum with the suggestion of this model as a suitable alternative. I agree that people shouldnt listen too closely to negativity from forums like this, but some of the feedback is honest and genuine even if its a little abrasive, its a stinker of a model and really with some very nice actual GW models and decent alternates like the dreamforge knight and numerous other detailed robot/mech toys of similar size on the market it would be hard not to find a better looking alternative.

that said im a purist and think Proxy models have no place in the hobby, conversions or scratchbuilds are cool, proxys from other ranges or elsewhere im not a fan of and dont allow.

shinankoku
14-06-2014, 01:30
Horus38, Cheeslord - that spider demon is sweeeeeeeet!


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