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madcore
06-06-2014, 00:54
Hey Guys,

Being an Astra Militarum player, I am fully aware that they do not really need allies, the army is pretty strong by itself but if I were to expand my armies, what would be your best choice for battle brothers with AM?

I Have never played Space Marines and I have no idea which faction would be better. I have a little bit of Grey Knights, some Dark Angeld from Dark Vengeance and a few Space Wolves...All models I have never used.....

I have gotten into my AM big time lately and I would love to create an ally army composed of Imperial troops....Would really like to hear about which chapter would be best and why...also hearing about crazy combo could be cool too...

Tks for your help.

Minsc
06-06-2014, 01:30
Imperial Knights. :p

madcore
06-06-2014, 01:33
Imperial Knights. :p

I am indeed planning on getting my hands on an Imperial knight but i would also really like to start a Space marine chapter to ally to my IG, I am just completely ignorant about which chapter would be best….

tiger g
06-06-2014, 01:54
Elysians

Inquisitors

MajorWesJanson
06-06-2014, 02:17
Depends on what you want your allied chapter to do, or what fluff you want.

Grey Knights are good in melee, and awesome psykers, but are expensive per model.
Dark Angels have some cool wargear like Powerfield Generators, and pretty good bikers and terminators
Space Wolves have very good value basic troops, and long fangs are nasty. They ought to be the next up after Orks, going by codex age (they are also the furthest out of line with the current meta)
Blood Angels have fallen behind as codices have been updated, but have a lot of fun dreadnoughts. Some rumors have them up next, instead of Space Wolves.
Basic Marines are rather versatile, and have some fun toys like Grav Guns, Storm Talons, and Thunderfire cannons.

madcore
06-06-2014, 02:51
Depends on what you want your allied chapter to do, or what fluff you want.

Grey Knights are good in melee, and awesome psykers, but are expensive per model.
Dark Angels have some cool wargear like Powerfield Generators, and pretty good bikers and terminators
Space Wolves have very good value basic troops, and long fangs are nasty. They ought to be the next up after Orks, going by codex age (they are also the furthest out of line with the current meta)
Blood Angels have fallen behind as codices have been updated, but have a lot of fun dreadnoughts. Some rumors have them up next, instead of Space Wolves.
Basic Marines are rather versatile, and have some fun toys like Grav Guns, Storm Talons, and Thunderfire cannons.

Well since my main army is AM, we can say that shooting is covered…I am mostly looking for something that can counter heavy CC hitters…..Like Necron wraiths etc….Something that can put pressure on the opponent while my Leman russ are advancing and putting even more pressure….I like target saturation, I like it when my opponent needs to choose between multiple dangerous targets….

MajorWesJanson
06-06-2014, 03:10
Well since my main army is AM, we can say that shooting is covered…I am mostly looking for something that can counter heavy CC hitters…..Like Necron wraiths etc….Something that can put pressure on the opponent while my Leman russ are advancing and putting even more pressure….I like target saturation, I like it when my opponent needs to choose between multiple dangerous targets….

I would maybe try a couple units of GKs and a GK librarian then. Good psychic powers, individual models are more expensive but they all come with a force sword and storm bolter base. And Nemesis Force staves on your justicars is a lot of fun in challenges. Proxy first before you buy.

Or if you want a CC monster of your own, Codex SM for an Iron Hands chapter master on bike with Shield Eternal, Artificer, and Thunderhammer. You can take a squad of 5+ bikes as troops for a rather mobile unit anchored by a tank. And the bikes can take some grav guns, flamers, meltas, or plasma to taste.

lethlis
06-06-2014, 03:15
Not gonna lie but INQ would probably be better for that in addition you would get the sweet sweet buffs from the inquisitors which will make even your blobs crazy good in combat or give you psychic protection.

Marines are not very good counter CC units. Personally I would be a fan of Dark Angels for what they bring to the army as well as having some decent combat effectiveness.

AngryAngel
06-06-2014, 03:17
You honestly don't need any allies, as the Imperial Guard are pretty robust on their own. Generally, I favor tough, hard to move or defeat units over hard hitting melee units for covering them in CC. As sending heavy hitters up, tends to leave them getting torn up fast with little gain and back up. Where as I do favor tar pits, tough units that can take some damage and move at a reasonable pace towards objectives but not over pace. As well I favor, moving up a bit, covering in fire and having fast moving, or special deployment shooting units that are reasonable at CC, which is still better then guard at it. Like pod marines, for instance. They land, cause some havoc, then force the enemy to deal with them, even tac marines being loose can prove quite painful for the enemy.

NemoSD
06-06-2014, 04:57
Grey Knights, and Dark Angels make outstanding allies for AM/IG.

Grey Knights because they literally cover ALL of IGs weak spots, while simultaneously synergizing with IG forces... using just the core power armored dude. Plus a librarian near a guard squad with santic can make for a difficult to move shooty unit. Espeically if you stick a divination Psyker Prime, or Wyrdvanes in or near by as well. AM/GK also stand to be the strongest Psyker alliance in the Imperium.

IG/ Dark Angels are good because the Dark Angels give you high armor, high pain units to toss at the enemy on turn one while you position your Guard for maximum pain. They work well together in a group.

Outside the Imperium, Eldar are good. Their core troops complement AM well, as they are fast, and shooty, and can get ahead of your Guardsmen squad, and set up advancement pathways for your Guardsmen to consolidate onto field objectives. Plus Pathfinder Snipers are amazing when used right, even with the loss of pinning.

Fangschrecken
06-06-2014, 05:18
Aye, a strong squad of deathwing in the backfield on turn one is a massive distraction that's hard to get rid of and can put out some serious hurt.

You could also ally in stormtroopers instead of using them as elites. That way they score...and... still die pretty quick.

Now, what you'd really want to do is take a Tyrant's Legion list. Where the guardsman's place as a living shield for the marines is cemented in the rules.

Chem-Dog
06-06-2014, 09:59
A little bit of personal Bias, but for a Melee oriented allied force, Blood Angels might be a pretty good choice, being able to accurately deepstrike in where they won't obscure your fire-lines is a huge bonus, they also rock the Infernus Pistol option which is great for popping tanks and other vehicles at close range leaving your own armour to act with impunity.They can also be a pretty points-cheap allied force.

If you're interested in fluffiness, neither the Dark Angels or the Grey Knights are renowned for their inclination to play well with others and allying with them is quite likely to get you killed, win or loose (though you could theoretically use Dark Angels to represent some "Fallen" marines, but even if they're really nice to your guardsmen it is unlikely that this will expand your life expectancy very much - If there is one thing the Dark Angels look on more dimply than people nosing in their business, it's people allying with the business you shouldn't be nosing in).
Space Wolves are at least willing to work with other elements of the Imperium (keep those Priests out of their way though) and will acknowledge skill and bravery, the Ultramarines are apparently pretty good at working in concert with human forces and chapters like the Salamanders and Raven Guard are positively pro-human in their outlook so would be considered a fortuitous ally that isn't just using your guardsmen as bullet sponges whilst they do their thing.

Otherwise. Inquisitors.

madcore
06-06-2014, 11:28
Aye, a strong squad of deathwing in the backfield on turn one is a massive distraction that's hard to get rid of and can put out some serious hurt.

Are you referring to using a Drop pod? This is a newb question but like i said, I have zero info about space marines....since they probably can't deepstrike on turn one, that would be the only way to land on turn one....

you are referring to a strong squad....are we talking about normal deathwings or deathwings knight etc...

tks for your help....

Yvain
06-06-2014, 11:38
Based on your comments you are a looking for either grey knights, blood angels, or space wolves.

Everything in the Grey Knight book deep strikes and is pretty powerful in CC. Their shooting is not too bad. Allying them in gives you access to Nemesis Dreadknights, Assassins, and Sanctic Powers with out the penalty. It could be a lot of fun uses them as a back up list especially if you fight a lot of chaos and daemons. The downside is they are expensive points wise, but that means you could get away with buying only a few units and throwing time into your army. They also have a lot of psyker so you can go nuts during the psy phase.

Blood angels have very fast units that are pretty hard hitting. Right now I would say their book is the weakest, but is poised to gain a lot due to the new mission style. Having fast super scoring assault marines with accurate scatter is pretty huge. Then in addition you have special furioso dreadnoughts (psykic librarians, death company (marines who are basically succomb to space vampirism) some really interesting characters like the sanguinator or brother corbulo. There are also a lot of successor chapters if you want a different armor color.

Space Wolves are a mid to close range army. They have a lot of ways to increase their CC strength and utility with their upgrdes. They are essentially space vikings and have a pretty strong codex. You can take a viking riding a giant wolf, a giant wolf, an IC gives you points for dying fighting, a HQ character dreadnought that has some pretty sweet backround fluff. They are less purposely CC oriented and more after we shoot we are still more deadly than normal in CC IMO.

You can build a strong allied force with all three of these armies that fits your requirements. So pick the one with the best theme that fits what you want to do.

tneva82
06-06-2014, 12:32
Dark angels do provide some nice things for IG. Powerfield for 4+ inv saves for your vechile(imagine super heavy tank with 4+ inv for bigger games :D Crack that up fast! Especially with nerfed D weapons). Azrael for 4+ inv for your 50 man blop(and IIRC didn't he also confer ATSKNF alongside...Azrael+bunch of power axe sergeants+lots of ablative wounds=pretty mean in close combat). For CC they can bring in TH+SH termies.

And getting hold of core dark angel force shouldn't be expensive thanks to dark vengeance. Could convert Azrael from the captain as equipment wise pretty much identical(missing only watcher in dark with helmet model). Set of dark vengeance+box of TH+SH termies and off you go.

Gungo
06-06-2014, 12:32
Inquisitors- specifically it's another ld10 stubborn unit, it is a cheap psyker, and it gives you servo skulls which helps guards immensely. Reroll blasts and limits deep strike infiltrate and scout armies for a ridiculously cheap cost. Or the more for a few points more Cortez and give whichever unit he joins basically interceptor. That's the best ally combo imho you can use an inquisitor from the standalone codex or grey knights. The other reason I like inquisitors is the meta. You can build them to counter demons, psykers, and kinda xenos.

NemoSD
06-06-2014, 18:16
If you're interested in fluffiness, neither the Dark Angels or the Grey Knights are renowned for their inclination to play well with others and allying with them is quite likely to get you killed, win or loose (though you could theoretically use Dark Angels to represent some "Fallen" marines, but even if they're really nice to your guardsmen it is unlikely that this will expand your life expectancy very much - If there is one thing the Dark Angels look on more dimply than people nosing in their business, it's people allying with the business you shouldn't be nosing in).


As far as the Dark Angels go, this is simply not true. If you actually read the entire Fluff for them, not just the highlight grimdark edition, they don't just say they are the most loyal Space Marine chapter, they walk the talk, because it allows them to hide their secret that much easier. They are routinely the first to respond if they are in the area, and will organize a defense or offense with any Imperial force to ensure Imperial victory. Now it is a bit unfluffy for them not to be the 'primary' detachment, as Azrael is a bit egotistical, as was el Jonson, and normally demands leadership of the theater. That is a minor oversight though. Yes, the Dark Angels in the past have abandoned an operation to chase a Fallen down, or shifted tactical objectives to dove tail with the acquisition of a fallen. They also do their best to keep non-Dark Angels out of the loop, and more so, most Dark Angels are kept out of the loop.

The only people that KNOW about the search for the Fallen and the such are Company Commanders, and the Deathwing. Even the Ravenwing don't know the whole story, in fact they barely know more then Joe Schmoe tactical. If the guys not in the know witnessed all these heretical acts the Dark Angels are supposed to have conducted according to people not familiar with the Dark Angels, you think the Inquisition wouldn't of come a knocking in force at some point?


Are you referring to using a Drop pod? This is a newb question but like i said, I have zero info about space marines....since they probably can't deepstrike on turn one, that would be the only way to land on turn one....

you are referring to a strong squad....are we talking about normal deathwings or deathwings knight etc...

tks for your help....

Dark Angels have a special rule allowing Deathwing to come in, no questions asked, on turn 1 or 2, players choice.

Chem-Dog
06-06-2014, 22:06
As far as the Dark Angels go, this is simply not true. If you actually read the entire Fluff for them, not just the highlight grimdark edition

I've been playing about with Dark Angels since Angels of Death (actually, My First RT army was DA's) but thanks for the pointers ;)

The Dark Angels have happily abandoned human armies to certain death to pursue their own agenda on more than one occasion, they have also wiped out loyalist Marines (Black Templars) in order to conceal the truth, the fact that the Inquisition seems to be largely ignorant speaks much to the ruthlessness of the Unforgiven in protecting their privacy (potentially up to and including the destruction of Inquisitors and/or their agents).
Yes they do fight for the Imperium quite often but that's not the point, the point is a long-standing alliance between Dark Angels and any non Dark Angels element is unlikely to be a long standing arrangement and is as likely to end in the deaths of the non element as it isn't.

tneva82
06-06-2014, 22:10
That's only true if the non-elements would be in position to find out the truth.

But dark angels coming to aid!=truth is about to be found out. Dark angels being responsive to aids of help means they aren't there always because there's fallens available. They do fight other foes. It's not like there's fallens popping up everywhere all the time. If best fallen interrogator got only 10 in centuries of career it's indicating there coule be decade or two without fallens to search. What you think dark angels do during those time? Sit and wait?-)

It's not like with grey knights where mere presence is death sentence to non-grey knights. Dark angels don't have problem with others as long as secret isn't coming up and if there's no fallens around that ain't happening.

NemoSD
06-06-2014, 22:22
I've been playing about with Dark Angels since Angels of Death (actually, My First RT army was DA's) but thanks for the pointers ;)

The Dark Angels have happily abandoned human armies to certain death to pursue their own agenda on more than one occasion, they have also wiped out loyalist Marines (Black Templars) in order to conceal the truth, the fact that the Inquisition seems to be largely ignorant speaks much to the ruthlessness of the Unforgiven in protecting their privacy (potentially up to and including the destruction of Inquisitors and/or their agents).
Yes they do fight for the Imperium quite often but that's not the point, the point is a long-standing alliance between Dark Angels and any non Dark Angels element is unlikely to be a long standing arrangement and is as likely to end in the deaths of the non element as it isn't.

Yes they have. The book states four examples in over 10k years, and at least 4 examples of them coming to the aid of Imperial positions because of fallen being present, and then in an offhand way says that they routinely respond to help Imperial positions, even backing up other Chapters. (Which is why the Space Wolf Brotherly feud is even mentioned.)

sicarius68
06-06-2014, 22:29
I'd go with grey knights awesome at cc I tried them with my AM army and it was fun to play. But haven't tried it in the new edition I guess they shine at the psy phase too now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Minsc
06-06-2014, 22:35
I'm gonna play...God's advocate (?) and say: Pick whatever chapter you like, as in like the rules, the colorscheme and the fluff.

Powerlevelwise, while the different chapter tactics aren't equally good, they (imo) differ so little in powerlevel that overall for an allied detatchment, it doesn't really matter which chapter you choose.

09philj
06-06-2014, 22:46
Blood axe mercenaries. Nice big block of boyz for bogging down specialist CC units.

madcore
07-06-2014, 13:01
I'm gonna play...God's advocate (?) and say: Pick whatever chapter you like, as in like the rules, the colorscheme and the fluff.

Powerlevelwise, while the different chapter tactics aren't equally good, they (imo) differ so little in powerlevel that overall for an allied detatchment, it doesn't really matter which chapter you choose.

I have always liked the color scheme of Imperial fists....after painting a huge batch of Imperial guards, I would love to have a bright color for a change.....Are Imperial Fists any Good...what is their chapter tactics?

Chem-Dog
07-06-2014, 16:35
That's only true if the non-elements would be in position to find out the truth.

This is pretty much the biggest secret in the galaxy (certainly in respect to servants of the Imperium), the vaguest chance of the non element finding out even an iota of the truth would be enough, not the full facts - The fate of the Ophidium Gulf (or lack of conclusive proof thereof) heavily implies the merest suspicion is enough.


It's not like there's fallens popping up everywhere all the time. If best fallen interrogator got only 10 in centuries of career

That's ten successful "confessions", the rarity is not the capturing of Fallen, it's getting them to recant.


Yes they have. The book states four examples in over 10k years, and at least 4 examples of them coming to the aid of Imperial positions because of fallen being present, and then in an offhand way says that they routinely respond to help Imperial positions, even backing up other Chapters.

So we have a Marine Chapter (actually Legion in all but name) that honours it's Oaths of fealty except when their private agenda is in the balance. When they cooperate they are dour, taciturn and generally unfriendly - the very epitome of an aloof Astartes and this all boils down to what I said initially, they don't play well with others.