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Captain Ron
07-06-2014, 06:54
I was just wondering what you thought the best MMU armies were besides Wood Elves and Dark Elves?

Lorcryst
07-06-2014, 08:35
Ogres or Warriors of Chaos with lots of Chaos Warriors, I think.

SimaoSegunda
07-06-2014, 13:05
Or a fanatic-cloud OnG list, with a bunch of NG units 20-30 strong unleashing a tidal wave of fanatics as soon as your enemy gets close.

EvanM
07-06-2014, 16:44
yeah OnG with chaff cav, 6-8 units of 20 night gobbos with bows and 3 fanatics each, plus like 8 war machines would just be fricken INSANE. but also, can I play against that?? haha

Lorcryst
07-06-2014, 18:53
Hmmm ... as a Night Goblin player, the Fanatic-cloud tactic has backfired in my face more times than it has worked ... little buggers going back through my lines, rolling doubles and killing themselves, that kind of thing.

But I did kill a Chaos Chariot of Tzeentch (with 3+/6++) with an unit of 20 Shortbow gobboes, before it was in Fanatic range :p

That said, with Orcs & Goblins, I think that a list with lots of 20-strong units of Orcs/Savage Orcs with Spider/Wolf riders as chaff/cleaners, the horrible green-gunline (6 Spear Chukkas, 2 Rock Lobbas, 2 Doom Divers, 540 points without bullies) and a couple of Mangler Squigs (NEVER leave home without them) can pack a serious punch.

Tyrant of Zhufbar
08-06-2014, 00:42
Ogres, WoC, Dwai, High Elves, Dark Elves, that would be my top 5 for the best at MMU. My definition of MMU being 20-30 wounds a unit. I've never thought of Wood Elves as a good MMU army at all

Overtninja
08-06-2014, 10:20
Ogres, WoC, Dwai, High Elves, Dark Elves, that would be my top 5 for the best at MMU. My definition of MMU being 20-30 wounds a unit. I've never thought of Wood Elves as a good MMU army at all

Now that WE have more ranked units, they can do the MMU thing. Previously, they didn't have a single ranked unit they really wanted to field more than minimal points into outside of very specific circumstances. You'll see a lot more blocks of 15-20 infantry in WE armies these days, especially with WWR and EG blocks being a viable option. You'll also see larger blocks of cav - particularly WR and SotT, since you want them to be durable enough to survive some shooting before they get into combat.

Phazael
09-06-2014, 21:19
I consider DE and WE to be more MSU based, though DE often have MMU aspects to them. MY definition of MMU is sizable combat effective units that are, none the less, expendable in the course of achieving victory. Most of the better ones have been touched on in this thread, but really any army can do MMU well (though some do it better than others).

DE/HE- Both of these armies can field very powerful medium sized combat blocks that are very good at earing their keep (Witch Elves, Phoenix Guard, White Lions, ect) with minimal outside support. Really you can drop 4-5 blocks of 20-30 infantry and back it with a few support units and have very strong MMU builds from either of these books.

Ogres- Been covered, but its worth repeating that an army of 6-9 man ogre blocks is very versatile and strong.

Brettonians- Surprised this has not been mentioned, but Realm lances, peasant blocks, peg knights, and solo flying heros are all reasonably priced and all certainly expendable. Probably one of the most overlooked MMU armies, these days.

Dwarves (either flavor)- Dorfs can certainly do MMU, but you will never see it when its so much less effort to line up an artillery line behind two hordes and then moan on the internet when Purple Sun wrecks your inner child.

Empire- Very strong MMU army, when played well. Might be a tad less powerful with WE in the metagame.

Orcs and Gobs- Night Goblin MMU is actually really good, but much like dwarf players, most greenskins are obsessed with lining up a gunline behind a savage orc biggun hoard to notice.

Daemons- Probably the best at MMU, with versatile core options and a lot of variety in the 100-300 point range for unit options. It is entirely feasible to put a DoC army on the table with no single unit over 300 points and still be incredibly strong.

Vamps- If more VC players had the patience to paint a bazillion zombies, you would see a lot more VC MMU, as its really good.

Skaven- Up there with Daemons, but most Skaven players are into the unbreakable deathstar thing these days, so the classic skaven checkerboard is seldom seen.

Lizardmen- Can do MMU well, but its somewhat predicable and boring to face/run a bunch of saurus blocks, the skink cloud, and uberslaan. Probably right there with Bretts though, when it comes down to it.

Tomb Kings- Actually can be really good at MMU, if you spam archer blocks, small chariot units, and a few monsters, but like all things Tomb King its very hard to beat certain enemies.

Wood Elves- I actually think Wood Elves are the worst at MMU, despite having one of the best MMU units in the game (10 man Wild Riders), for two main reasons. First, static shooting is a major element of the new book and the kind of prolonged complex multiple combats that make MMU work well detract from the shooting, often leading to either the combat units or shooters being idle or ineffective. Second, the survivable blocks all lack musicians (or even any commands) and by extension combat reforms, which make the important maneuvering incredibly more difficult. The medium sized Wild Riders are the one exception, but they are very susceptible to shooting attacks and attrition, so expecting more than one or two useful combats from them is a bit much. Wood Elves may have moved into the top slot for MSU, though.

So my top five list would be:
1) Daemons
2) Skaven
3) Ogres
4) Brettonians
5) Empire

shredshredxx
10-06-2014, 07:46
What does MMU stand for? Multiple medium units?

Phazael
10-06-2014, 15:35
Yes. So usually infantry blocks of 20-25 and cavalry units of 5-10 will be the main composition of such an army. The idea being that you have many combat effective units to multiple charge people, but all of them are expendable if the need arises. MSU tends to have more of a movement and shooting focus with many more units, while MMU is about setting up zones of control and good countercharges.