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AceRimmer
09-06-2014, 02:07
Im a fan of ye old Chaos just one of the perks of being born in 1980. After reading some articals on old hammer I remembered how great a setting Chaos was back in the day and wanted to know if anyone knew which books inspired it. Looking to recapture the feeling of reading a John Blanche picture. :p

Voss
09-06-2014, 03:42
Michael Moorcock- most of the 'Eternal Champions,' particularly Elric, Corum and to some extent Hawkmoon.
Fritz Leiber as the Lankhmar series wanders on and off the topic. The proto-skaven are definitely there, however.

I've heard people mention Modesitt, and the Magic of Recluse series, but for me that comes way too late (first book was '91).

Night Bearer
09-06-2014, 19:52
The Book of the New Sun series of novels from Gene Wolfe is likely where GW got the notion of mixing quasi-latin with English. Also borrowed some terms/concepts directly from them.

The Foundation Series by Isaac Asimov. Humanity undergoing a long period of galactic dark ages. The Cabal side-plot of the Horus Heresy novels (ie visions that the human empire is doomed to failure) is likely inspired/lifted from the concept of psychohistory in this series.

The Dune series by Frank Herbert. Galaxy-spanning human empire run by a God-Emperor. Navigation possible by mutant navigation houses.

A lot of 2000 AD comics are now available in graphic novel format - Dredd, ABC Warriors, Rogue Trooper, and Nemesis the Warlock:
Dredd: Hive cities and Adeptus Arbites. Mutants.
ABC Warriors: Robot warriors, including one who worships a religion called "Chaos".
Rogue Trooper: Genetically modified survivor of a massacre instigated by a "traitor general".
Nemesis the Warlock: Humanity run by a xenophobic emperor from the planet Termite, whose "Terminators" hunt down alien psychics like the titular Nemesis.

A lot of the graphic elements in 40k in particular come from the 2000 AD comics. The up-arrow symbol of Tactical Space Marines is almost certainly derived from similar graffiti arrows in the comics, where it represents a stylized mushroom cloud indicating radiation.

Verm1s
09-06-2014, 20:25
The Dune series by Frank Herbert. Galaxy-spanning human empire run by a God-Emperor. Navigation possible by mutant navigation houses.

And the previous emperor's fearsome, nigh-invincible crack stormtroopers, hardened by and recruited from a harsh, unforgiving planet. ;) And the use and enhancement of human abilities thanks to the centuries-old ban on artificial intelligence and 'thinking machines'.

Late
09-06-2014, 21:01
Nemesis the Warlock: Humanity run by a xenophobic emperor from the planet Termite, whose "Terminators" hunt down alien psychics like the titular Nemesis.

A lot of the graphic elements in 40k in particular come from the 2000 AD comics. The up-arrow symbol of Tactical Space Marines is almost certainly derived from similar graffiti arrows in the comics, where it represents a stylized mushroom cloud indicating radiation.

Aye, also the capital I symbol used by the Inquisition is straight from Nemesis.

AceRimmer
09-06-2014, 23:37
I had heard of Michael Moorcock so think I will start there. Dune and the Foundation series have been on the to-do list for a while now I went through a phase of collecting the sf masterworks series untill they changed the cover style now its kindle all the way. Some good tips thanks need plenty of books to pass night shifts at work. Might even invest in some graphic novels.

Voss
10-06-2014, 03:33
And the previous emperor's fearsome, nigh-invincible crack stormtroopers, hardened by and recruited from a harsh, unforgiving planet. ;) And the use and enhancement of human abilities thanks to the centuries-old ban on artificial intelligence and 'thinking machines'.

Yeah, the original timeline in Rogue Trader (1st edition) looked suspiciously familiar to the timeline in the appendix of the later printings of Dune. Parts of the overlap of the Dark Age of Technology and the thinking machines in particular looked like it was copied almost verbatim.

Yowzo
10-06-2014, 12:33
And the previous emperor's fearsome, nigh-invincible crack stormtroopers, hardened by and recruited from a harsh, unforgiving planet. ;) And the use and enhancement of human abilities thanks to the centuries-old ban on artificial intelligence and 'thinking machines'.

The reverence to old technology that's impossible to replicate at the current time seems taken straight from the Battletech universe. Occult mumbo jumbo and all.

Though both of those evoke the humanity's own dark Medieval era where so much ancient knowledge was lost.

frozenwastes
11-06-2014, 03:57
The reverence to old technology that's impossible to replicate at the current time seems taken straight from the Battletech universe. Occult mumbo jumbo and all.

Though both of those evoke the humanity's own dark Medieval era where so much ancient knowledge was lost.

You should read Asimov's Foundation series (starting in 1951 as a series of short stories and expanding over the years into multiple novels). That's where this "technology as religion" idea is taken from.

mrtn
11-06-2014, 10:42
The up-arrow symbol of Tactical Space Marines is almost certainly derived from similar graffiti arrows in the comics, where it represents a stylized mushroom cloud indicating radiation.
An arrow is also a symbol of Law in Michael Moorcock's works (and opposed to the eight-pointed star of Chaos that we all know GW lifted from MM). There were early Gods of Law in Warhammer, but I can't remember if those were ever present in 40K.

rwphillipsstl
11-06-2014, 18:54
I had heard of Michael Moorcock so think I will start there. Dune and the Foundation series have been on the to-do list for a while now I went through a phase of collecting the sf masterworks series untill they changed the cover style now its kindle all the way. Some good tips thanks need plenty of books to pass night shifts at work. Might even invest in some graphic novels.

if you are truly any sort of gaming/geek fanboy like the rest of us, you MUST read Dune (the rest of the series is optional, but certainly the novel Dune itself is a must), the Stormbringer series by Moorcock along with few other novels from his eternal champion mythos, and at least a little bit of Lieber's Fafrd & Grey Mouser series. I love Asimov, and second the recommendations for the Foundation trilogy, but I would not put it on quite the same level, more like a 1A. I would also recommend Star Guard by Andre Norton to anyone interested in the concept of mercenaries in space--a classic sci-fi novel.

TheFang
11-06-2014, 19:10
An arrow is also a symbol of Law in Michael Moorcock's works (and opposed to the eight-pointed star of Chaos that we all know GW lifted from MM). There were early Gods of Law in Warhammer, but I can't remember if those were ever present in 40K.
Only really the Emperor and his children the Sensei.

In 40k Dune all the way for the Imperium's early influences. Sequels become worse and worse as they became contractual obligations rather than decent stories. Starship Troopers and the Forever War for Marines.

For Warhammer fantasy Moorcock's Eternal Champion series especially Elric, for WFRP more influence from Leiber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser with touches of Conan and Tolkien with a sprinkling of Lovecraft for the Chaos Cults.

yabbadabba
11-06-2014, 19:37
If you want to get the internal perspective on why those are the inspirations, the books Lost and the Damned and Slaves to Darkness, both oop, are a veritable cornucopia of references.

rwphillipsstl
11-06-2014, 19:58
Only really the Emperor and his children the Sensei.

In 40k Dune all the way for the Imperium's early influences. Sequels become worse and worse as they became contractual obligations rather than decent stories. Starship Troopers and the Forever War for Marines.

For Warhammer fantasy Moorcock's Eternal Champion series especially Elric, for WFRP more influence from Leiber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser with touches of Conan and Tolkien with a sprinkling of Lovecraft for the Chaos Cults.

Just do NOT read a bunch of Lovecraft or Clark Ashton Smith before going on a driving trip into rural New England. It makes every stop for gasoline or a meal into a nervous experience.

ObiWayneKenobi
11-06-2014, 19:59
Just do NOT read a bunch of Lovecraft or Clark Ashton Smith before going on a driving trip into rural New England. It makes every stop for gasoline or a meal into a nervous experience.

That sounds like an awesome idea for a trip :D

Bloodknight
13-06-2014, 18:03
The reverence to old technology that's impossible to replicate at the current time seems taken straight from the Battletech universe. Occult mumbo jumbo and all.

That's only ComStar, and they're liars because they actually can produce quite a lot of that stuff even in the 3rd Succession War, but let the others rot :). That said, since 40K and Battletech are basically the same age, '84 and '87, I believe, I don't think that BT had much of an influence on 40k, although some of the early robot sculpts that Citadel made are 1:1 ripoffs of BT designs like the Javelin scout Mech (not that FASA had clean hands there either, given the "Unseen" problem, the Javelin and the Catapult were original designs, though).
There they are. Find the Javelin and the Catapult.

http://www.sodemons.com/rhrobots/index.htm

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Javelin
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Catapult