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Sephillion
09-06-2014, 18:50
According to rumours, after Orks, it’s going to be BA.
Then there will remain what? Dark Eldars, Grey Knights, Necrons… Sisters? Am I missing any?

There is not that many un-updated codices left. Unless they slow things down, we’ll see probably Blood Angels and one of the others (DE?) this year, at least (BA in August/September, other in October/November).

What do you think? Will GW slow down its release rate? Will we see already updated codices for the “usual” SM/Nids) or, maybe, for the earliest 67th edition codices already?

hobojebus
09-06-2014, 18:57
According to rumours, after Orks, it’s going to be BA.
Then there will remain what? Dark Eldars, Grey Knights, Necrons… Sisters? Am I missing any?

There is not that many un-updated codices left. Unless they slow things down, we’ll see probably Blood Angels and one of the others (DE?) this year, at least (BA in August/September, other in October/November).

What do you think? Will GW slow down its release rate? Will we see already updated codices for the “usual” SM/Nids) or, maybe, for the earliest 67th edition codices already?

You forgot space wolves which will have the oldest codex by far.

It should go wolves,BA, DE,GK.

I wouldn't hold your breath on sisters they've stopped recasting totally and alot of stuffs gone off the site, the digital codex hasn't had any kind of update either.

And no they wont slow codex releases, they have a new edition and so a reason to reprint each codex for 7th, after all it was a whole 2 years ago we bought the chaos codex thats long enough isnt it.

Sephillion
09-06-2014, 19:02
Yeah, I came back to add SW, and you beat me to it. For some reason I totally forgot about them, even though I have a few at home.

I tend to agree with you that they won’t slow things down.

csm
09-06-2014, 19:04
After everyone has a new codex they can just release supplements and dataslates for everything.

Codex: Tzeentch Supplement? Codex: Squats Supplement? Codex: Marines with bolter and bolt pistol Supplement?

Gungo
09-06-2014, 20:31
I think the slow down on release we see with orks is what we may see more of. That and the last 6 codexs orks>ba>Dark elder>space wolves>necrons>grey knights>sisters to take up the majority of next year. I also fully expect campaign and supplements and dataslates and formations and new stronghold assault terrain to fill on between, I even expect 2 more plastic lord of wars next year like they did this year. That's enough filler for an entire year and then you start all over again with the chaos demons codex three+years after it's last release. Three+ years is about what I expect for shelf life on each codex.

tneva82
09-06-2014, 20:38
I think the slow down on release we see with orks is what we may see more of. That and the last 6 codexs orks>ba>Dark elder>space wolves>necrons>grey knights>sisters to take up the majority of next year. I also fully expect campaign and supplements and dataslates and formations and new stronghold assault terrain to fill on between, I even expect 2 more plastic lord of wars next year like they did this year. That's enough filler for an entire year and then you start all over again with the chaos demons codex three+years after it's last release. Three+ years is about what I expect for shelf life on each codex.

Orks isn't really that slow compared to before. It's still full release more or less in a month.

Before weekly white dwarf all could have fit on one white dwarf. Now it's just spread through whole month.

Wolf Lord Balrog
09-06-2014, 20:41
So I suppose its useless to hope for a new Codex: Space Wolves by January/February next year? It would be 5 1/2 years old by then, and the book is already seriously dated ...

Sephillion
09-06-2014, 20:46
Quite the opposite; since I had forgotten about it, it will probably be released before DE and the others, so right after BA. So my guess would be this year, unless they decide to release DE first. I think there were some rumours about DE coming this fall, but I took those with a truckload of salt.

Charistoph
09-06-2014, 21:38
So I suppose its useless to hope for a new Codex: Space Wolves by January/February next year? It would be 5 1/2 years old by then, and the book is already seriously dated ...

Useless to hope? No. But I wouldn't put my expectations on it. They haven't done 2 Loyalist codices back to back before, and I doubt they'll start now. Though, SW IS older than BA, and they have changed their procedures on such things.


Quite the opposite; since I had forgotten about it, it will probably be released before DE and the others, so right after BA. So my guess would be this year, unless they decide to release DE first. I think there were some rumours about DE coming this fall, but I took those with a truckload of salt.

No guarantee that SW will be released before anything. It may end up being after the next Codex: Space Marines or even after a plastic Sororitas run. They follow no set schedule based on past performance, and no reason for them to start now. They will release as they have models and business reasons to do so.

Sephillion
10-06-2014, 00:21
Oh I'm not talking about anything guaranteed. It certainly could be released later, but assuming two releases after BA (and assuming BA following Orks) - that would lead to January/February.

OuroborosTriumphant
10-06-2014, 00:30
In terms of pure speculation;

Orks have a 4th ed Codex. We know they are next.

Space Wolves have no anti-air and probably need the update most badly other than Orks.

Orks, Space Wolves and Dark Eldar have no digital editions of their codices.

Blood Angels have fliers and a digital codex, but lots of rumours suggesting they are next/are forming a new starter set with Orks. However, rumour reverb is certainly a thing that happens and it wouldn't surprise me to see Space Wolves or Dark Eldars come out of nowhere as the next codex after Orks.

Necrons and Grey Knights have fliers and digital codexes but not hardback codexes, a Warlord Traits table or a set of unique Artifacts. They will probably be next on the slate after Orks, Space Wolves, Dark Eldar and Blood Angels.

Losing Command
10-06-2014, 01:05
With how well represented Sisters of Battle are in the new rule and fluffbook, I don't think GW is going to do a Squats with them. When it finally will get a decent release is another matter.

hobojebus
10-06-2014, 01:25
With how well represented Sisters of Battle are in the new rule and fluffbook, I don't think GW is going to do a Squats with them. When it finally will get a decent release is another matter.

If their financials improve they may risk a sister's redux, if things stay the same or get worse I don't see them risking it.

Charistoph
10-06-2014, 01:41
With how well represented Sisters of Battle are in the new rule and fluffbook, I don't think GW is going to do a Squats with them. When it finally will get a decent release is another matter.

Considering they would require a Dark Eldar refit, Sisters are in a very tenuous position. I honestly think they would do better than Dark Eldar did, but that's just my opinion.

MajorWesJanson
10-06-2014, 09:51
Considering they would require a Dark Eldar refit, Sisters are in a very tenuous position. I honestly think they would do better than Dark Eldar did, but that's just my opinion.

Sisters are closer to a GK level refit, not a Dark Eldar one. Grey Knights managed to get most of their units taken care of in a mere 4 kits. Sisters could potentially do the same- Power Armored sisters box for most the foot units, Seraphim box, Penitent Engine, Exorcist would cover all the units they have now. Clampack Canoness, clampack Living Saint, clampack priest.

Mauler
10-06-2014, 09:56
I think that the release order will be Orks, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Dark Eldar & lastly Necrons. Once those are done I can't see GW reproducing any of the 6th edition books again yet, I still have an inkling that the Inqusition and Sisters will be rolled into a new book alongside the Grey Knights given that GW don't have any physical prints of the current Sororitas & Inquisition books to shift or recycle. It'll probably result in a Marines-esque over 104pg bumper codex but 1) they're Imperial and 2) will sell like mofos, especially with the current psychic phase and the widespread Adamantium Will USR.

Once GW get the main forces done they'll possibly settle down into some supplement and expansion books, this time with new models before we get near Chaos Marines getting a new codex again.

tneva82
10-06-2014, 10:31
Once those are done I can't see GW reproducing any of the 6th edition books again yet,

Why not? GW's policy is for updating books constantly. With 7th edition makes only sense they would be starting to replace them. I wouldn't be too surprised to see some of the first 6th ed codexes be updated soonish. Probably sooner than some of the codexes you mentioned...GW is in no way attempting to updating complete round before starting the update process again.

A.T.
10-06-2014, 11:03
Sisters could potentially do the same- Power Armored sisters box for most the foot units, Seraphim box, Penitent Engine, Exorcist would cover all the units they have now. Clampack Canoness, clampack Living Saint, clampack priest.And repentia. But then you need to add new kits to make it worth GWs time and actually fill out a codex - even with the GKs very limited scope they have more than twice the unit count of the sororitas. They aren't going to be able to 'cheat' the same was as the GKs by absorbing models from other lines to bulk it out.

Mauler
10-06-2014, 11:07
Why not? GW's policy is for updating books constantly. With 7th edition makes only sense they would be starting to replace them. I wouldn't be too surprised to see some of the first 6th ed codexes be updated soonish. Probably sooner than some of the codexes you mentioned...GW is in no way attempting to updating complete round before starting the update process again.

Given that GW haven't yet repeated a new codex before completing the cycle started with 6th you can state that as anywhere near a fact with any measure of certainty. The evidence shows that all forces are getting updated, so until we see a new 6E -> 7E book that's the case.

Mauler
10-06-2014, 11:08
And repentia. But then you need to add new kits to make it worth GWs time and actually fill out a codex - even with the GKs very limited scope they have more than twice the unit count of the sororitas. They aren't going to be able to 'cheat' the same was as the GKs by absorbing models from other lines to bulk it out.

They certainly can 'cheat' by releasing a new Witch/Daemon Hunters codex with the three forces listed above in it...

MajorWesJanson
10-06-2014, 11:13
I would acually expect Inquisition to be removed fully from the GK book and kept their own codex (with Assassins). With the new multiple detachments/formations thing, they could easily do a smaller codex similar in size to Codex Knights for Inquisition, and then expand Grey Knights.
Sisters they could also expand with more ecclesiarchy units.

tneva82
10-06-2014, 11:34
Given that GW haven't yet repeated a new codex before completing the cycle started with 6th you can state that as anywhere near a fact with any measure of certainty. The evidence shows that all forces are getting updated, so until we see a new 6E -> 7E book that's the case.

We have seen plenty of cycles where new codex wasn't released before cycle started afresh. Orks, space wolves, others...

They don't go "let's do complete cycle and then start again". They go "what will give most money?". Certain armies sell more. There's armies that gets 2 updates in time it takes for other codex 1. Or even 3...

hobojebus
10-06-2014, 11:49
GW have cottoned on to the fact people are buying less models so now their new big thing is books, see you can use models you've had since 2nd ed but what they can force you into buying is the codex as you need the latest one to play, so don't expect the release schedule on books to lighten up, of course each new book will be 95% the same as the previous but with one or two new units and something like the new psyker powers that were not in the old one.

Soon the company will be "we are a publishing company not a model company"

Mauler
10-06-2014, 12:16
We have seen plenty of cycles where new codex wasn't released before cycle started afresh. Orks, space wolves, others...

They don't go "let's do complete cycle and then start again". They go "what will give most money?". Certain armies sell more. There's armies that gets 2 updates in time it takes for other codex 1. Or even 3...

Since they started their current monthly release cycle? No. I'll believe it when I see it.

tneva82
10-06-2014, 12:47
Since they started their current monthly release cycle? No. I'll believe it when I see it.

There's no reason to think things have changed.

When there's no evidence of change there's reason to expect it to continue the same as they have for 20 odd years.

Mauler
10-06-2014, 12:52
There's no reason to think things have changed.

When there's no evidence of change there's reason to expect it to continue the same as they have for 20 odd years.

If you're under the illusion that utterly overhauling your development, production & release schedules to an unpresidented monthly plan isn't "a change" then I don't really see the point in continuing this discussion.

lol

tneva82
10-06-2014, 13:17
If you're under the illusion that utterly overhauling your development, production & release schedules to an unpresidented monthly plan isn't "a change" then I don't really see the point in continuing this discussion.

lol

Change to principle of updating codexes in order to make sure the ones selling best are updated most often...No there's no evidence of that whatsoever.

If anything GW is more hell bent of money grabbing so unlikely they go "oh let's decrease our sales to appeal fans".

Mauler
10-06-2014, 14:03
Change to principle of updating codexes in order to make sure the ones selling best are updated most often...No there's no evidence of that whatsoever.

If anything GW is more hell bent of money grabbing so unlikely they go "oh let's decrease our sales to appeal fans".

But there isn't any evidence to show that the best-selling foces are updated more frequently since their new release schedule started, is there? Were Marines first? No, a full year after 6th was released. IG sell quite well and are popular, were they early on in the cycle? No, quite the opposite. Has the Marine book been updated, arguably GW's most popular seller? No. Have any of the new books been updated and re-released before an army still requiring a 6/7th ed book? No.

GW are still in reasonably new waters with their release schedule at the moment, if you can point out the signs that it's about to go the way of their old cycle (the new BRB is not an indication of this so far) then I'll take your cynicism seriously.

By "money grabbing" you actually mean "turning a profit like a healthy company should", right? I think that a company that's earning a profit will want to stick to what's earning them a profit and so far that's been updating each 40k force in turn every other month. Their next financial report should be pretty interesting.

Charistoph
10-06-2014, 16:27
Sisters are closer to a GK level refit, not a Dark Eldar one. Grey Knights managed to get most of their units taken care of in a mere 4 kits. Sisters could potentially do the same- Power Armored sisters box for most the foot units, Seraphim box, Penitent Engine, Exorcist would cover all the units they have now. Clampack Canoness, clampack Living Saint, clampack priest.

Not quite. With 2 boxes, Grey Knight are able to generate everything but HQs and the Dreadknight. Sisters require the basic Sisters, Heavy Weapon Sisters (or a Chaos Marine-style upgrade pack), Jump Sisters, Penitent Engine, and Repentia, at a minimum before Characters, and that's before any extra stuff. To be fair, it's about halfway between the two.

But my point was that Dark Eldar needed and received a complete line revamp to be returned to a viable sales line. Grey Knights did to, and I did not mean to exclude them as they received the same treatment (albeit, more inventively), but Sisters today is in the same position that the Dark Eldar were before their revamp. I could still get Grey Knights and Inquisition in the local store when they went live.


But there isn't any evidence to show that the best-selling foces are updated more frequently since their new release schedule started, is there? Were Marines first? No, a full year after 6th was released. IG sell quite well and are popular, were they early on in the cycle? No, quite the opposite. Has the Marine book been updated, arguably GW's most popular seller? No. Have any of the new books been updated and re-released before an army still requiring a 6/7th ed book? No.

Actually, 3 of the 5 codices of 6th Edition's first year (not including Inquisition or Knights) were Marines of one flavor or another.

A better argument against a popularity cycle is that Orks have one of the slowest update cycles of any of the "regular" armies, and no one doubts their popularity, either in GW or out. Meanwhile, Tyranids have been updated every Edition so far (save 7th so far), and if anything, it has reduced their popularity (more due to poor codex reception and wildly changing styles).

Chem-Dog
11-06-2014, 03:38
We have seen plenty of cycles where new codex wasn't released before cycle started afresh. Orks, space wolves, others...

It's not something we've seen since the overhaul process included going from paperback to hardback-full colour, I'd expect everything to get that treatment first.


They don't go "let's do complete cycle and then start again". They go "what will give most money?". Certain armies sell more. There's armies that gets 2 updates in time it takes for other codex 1. Or even 3...

Though it could also be said to be true that armies which go longest between updates suffer the most drop-off (and thus overall sales), I can't imagine Dark Eldar were selling any models in the year or two before Kelly's 'Dex became available, thus far GW seems to have finally grasped this concept, I'm willing to hold on to hope until they prove otherwise.


Sisters are closer to a GK level refit, not a Dark Eldar one. Grey Knights managed to get most of their units taken care of in a mere 4 kits. Sisters could potentially do the same- Power Armored sisters box for most the foot units, Seraphim box, Penitent Engine, Exorcist would cover all the units they have now. Clampack Canoness, clampack Living Saint, clampack priest.

It's possible but I'd imagine something larger happening, SoB are really only a Concept now, there's nothing left of the ranges which can make the jump to a pure plastic kit apart from the Immolator. Assuming GW don't overhaul the look entirely to a point where the Immolator looks anachronistic squeezing it all into four boxes and a couple of clampacks is going to be difficult.
That said, it'd be relatively easy to throw Seraphim Jump Packs and arms into another box (like they did for Death Company) to give you Celestians, Battle Sisters, Dominions, Seraphim and Retributors in one box.
If the default Battle Sister squad can be 20-strong with a single SW and HW in the squad and we assume that the box give you 5 models and includes one of each special and heavy weapon options, you'll have a lot of spare SW and HW parts ready for Dominions and Retributors by the time you've built a single full sized Battle Squad. It's like Building a MT Scions Platoon, build three full sized Scion squads and you'll have all of the options you'll ever need to equip a
Scion Command Squad unless you choose to equip every last special weapon gunner with the same weapon.


I would acually expect Inquisition to be removed fully from the GK book and kept their own codex (with Assassins). With the new multiple detachments/formations thing, they could easily do a smaller codex similar in size to Codex Knights for Inquisition, and then expand Grey Knights.
Sisters they could also expand with more ecclesiarchy units.

I would definitely like Inquisition to be separated from the Likes of GK's an SoB's and made available as a more comprehensive Codex. Certainly more comprehensive than the E-Codex they have currently.

Brother-Captain Endymion
11-06-2014, 05:11
Oh, I don't know. I'd like to see the Inquisition/GK/SoB folded into a single 'dex.

The GK are the militant arm of the Ordo Malleus, SoB are the militant arm of the Ordo Hereticus, and the Deathwatch are the militant arm of the Ordo Xenos, correct? So wouldn't it make sense for all of these factions to be folded into one book? You could still have henchmen since all Inquisitors use them regardless of Order. Throw in a special unit per Ordo and you'd be set. Then GW could just focus on releasing a couple of plastic kits for the range and call it a day.

Charistoph
11-06-2014, 05:19
Oh, I don't know. I'd like to see the Inquisition/GK/SoB folded into a single 'dex.

The GK are the militant arm of the Ordo Malleus, SoB are the militant arm of the Ordo Hereticus, and the Deathwatch are the militant arm of the Ordo Xenos, correct? So wouldn't it make sense for all of these factions to be folded into one book? You could still have henchmen since all Inquisitors use them regardless of Order. Throw in a special unit per Ordo and you'd be set. Then GW could just focus on releasing a couple of plastic kits for the range and call it a day.

Not saying that couldn't work, but I would rather see Sisters merged more with Arbites and Ecclesiarchy than with the Ordos. The Ordos are backing up the Grey Knights (as well as being on their own), and this will expand our knowledge of the Imperium.

Losing Command
11-06-2014, 06:42
SoB also aren't the militant arm of the ordo hereticus : they merely like to work with eachother a lot of the times. SoB are actually the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy, or Imperial church. Rolling SoB battle into the same 'dex as inquisitors would be like Ultramarines in the guard codex in that regard ;)

GK also operate indipendently (they don't sit on Titan waiting for an inquisitor to make a call, but search for daemonic incursions and set out to fight them without being told) though the Ordo malleus has a lot of authority over them.

I wouldn't mind the Inquisition and GK remaining in the same codex, but only if there would be some decent restrictions. No more GK being totally fine working for Radicals, or loaning their razorbacks to inquisitorial henchmen en masse and all the other stupid things.

A.T.
11-06-2014, 10:37
Not saying that couldn't work, but I would rather see Sisters merged more with Arbites and Ecclesiarchy than with the Ordos.I often see the arbites brought up in these kinds of posts despite their having no links at all to the sororitas beyond the repressor and the shotgun option for stormtroopers in the old witch hunters books. Just seems to be a very widespread association amongst the fanbase.
(arbites as an organisation pre-dating the ecclesiarchy by millennia and the high marshal himself being a lord or terra on the level of the ecclesiarch)


The Inq/SoB/GK combined codex would have been easier before the current GK book with Ward really stretching the concept of the incorruptible knight unit, the even more incorruptible knight unit, the even purer than them knight unit, the even purer than the even purer incorruptible knight unit, and their ghost clone buddies. Combine with the inquisition (and some of the ecclesiarchy stuff) being hugely dumbed down the GK dex is now bringing a lot of bloat and baggage that would have to be cut away.

From a unit perspective the sisters/ecclesiarchy don't need them, it'd be easy enough to come up with two books worth of units but the question is whether GW is willing or able to put that amount of cash on the line with new kits and no guarantee of returns. With the sisters kicked so far into the corner and a general lack of desire to interact with their customer base GW don't really have any way to gauge potential sales or popularity of the line any more. I'm not sure the company in it's current state would ever risk it.

Mauler
11-06-2014, 10:53
Actually, 3 of the 5 codices of 6th Edition's first year (not including Inquisition or Knights) were Marines of one flavor or another.


I'm aware of that duder, but the point is that they needed updating and haven't been updated again since 6th (or now 7th) was released.

I think we're on the same page though...

Charistoph
11-06-2014, 16:29
I often see the arbites brought up in these kinds of posts despite their having no links at all to the sororitas beyond the repressor and the shotgun option for stormtroopers in the old witch hunters books. Just seems to be a very widespread association amongst the fanbase.
(arbites as an organisation pre-dating the ecclesiarchy by millennia and the high marshal himself being a lord or terra on the level of the ecclesiarch)

I don't know about others, but my reasoning is three-fold. 1) The most likely units to be assisting the Sisters were be culled from the local militias and constabulary. 2) Units from the Arbites can be made to fit where the Sisters either can't or shouldn't work, complementing them nicely. 3) The Arbites really don't currently have a presence in the game.

By having both in the next codex, it allows work to start to bring the Arbites out as their own Detachment similar to how the Inquisition was done farther down the road, and have a book to prompt people to buy the miniatures.

Mauler
11-06-2014, 16:38
I don't know about others, but my reasoning is three-fold. 1) The most likely units to be assisting the Sisters were be culled from the local militias and constabulary. 2) Units from the Arbites can be made to fit where the Sisters either can't or shouldn't work, complementing them nicely. 3) The Arbites really don't currently have a presence in the game.

By having both in the next codex, it allows work to start to bring the Arbites out as their own Detachment similar to how the Inquisition was done farther down the road, and have a book to prompt people to buy the miniatures.

Actually I can see aggro Arbites piling out of a Taurox...not a bad idea.

A.T.
11-06-2014, 17:04
1) The most likely units to be assisting the Sisters were be culled from the local militias and constabulary.
2) Units from the Arbites can be made to fit where the Sisters either can't or shouldn't work, complementing them nicely.
3) The Arbites really don't currently have a presence in the game. 1) The sisters have less authority over them than the guard. An arbites mini-dex would certainly be suitable battle brothers for sisters but nothing about the organisations suggests a closer connection. If nothing else the arbites just aren't generally seen on the battlefield.

2) An unfortunate continuation of fixing the sisters deficiencies by bringing in non ecclesiarchal allies. Much better to fill out the scope of the actual ecclesiarchal/sororitas forces with new units.

3) Imperial guard veterans, carapace armour, shotguns, leman russ tanks. There isn't much to them unless you really start to expand on the theme at which point you are going to start eating heavily into an ecclesiarchy dex with variant guard units.


Arbites models also represent several sprues of plastics that the sisters will be losing, as part of the codex they would be a parasitical release that detracts from the line. Much better for all involved that they are an entirely separate release/ebook IMO.

09philj
11-06-2014, 17:44
They certainly can 'cheat' by releasing a new Witch/Daemon Hunters codex with the three forces listed above in it...
Under the title Codex: Inquisition. At the same time, release a deathwatch supplement to C:SM.

Charistoph
11-06-2014, 17:45
1) The sisters have less authority over them than the guard. An arbites mini-dex would certainly be suitable battle brothers for sisters but nothing about the organisations suggests a closer connection. If nothing else the arbites just aren't generally seen on the battlefield.

Neither are Sisters or Inquisitors, and Grey Knights even less so.

And being in the same codex isn't always about authority, as two of the Inquisitors in Gray Knights deal with other things and have less authority to lead them.

But situations where Sisters do see battle are situations close to hearth and home for the citizens of the Imperium, which is where one can find Arbites. This entry is more about their common causes and deployment areas than about Authority.


2) An unfortunate continuation of fixing the sisters deficiencies by bringing in non ecclesiarchal allies. Much better to fill out the scope of the actual ecclesiarchal/sororitas forces with new units.

And the Arbites can't be those units, even for one codex? Just to get them both off the ground? Poor excuse.


3) Imperial guard veterans, carapace armour, shotguns, leman russ tanks. There isn't much to them unless you really start to expand on the theme at which point you are going to start eating heavily into an ecclesiarchy dex with variant guard units.

Ecclisiarchy really wouldn't be bringing many men that were little more than Priests or mobs, at least according to fluff. Arbites wouldn't have Russes (those are from PDF), but could have Bikes, Gunships, and Scouts the Sisters and Guard just don't have.


Arbites models also represent several sprues of plastics that the sisters will be losing, as part of the codex they would be a parasitical release that detracts from the line. Much better for all involved that they are an entirely separate release/ebook IMO.

And this is the only valid argument you have that actually bears any weight. But as we've seen from other lines, this isn't as big a problem on a multi-week release format that GW has adopted recently.

mightymconeshot
11-06-2014, 17:57
Actually there is a story where Arbites have a pair of leman russes. I believe it is in an Ultramarines novel but unsure on that. But I don't think SoB should have Arbites support any more than Guard or Marines. I think Gray Knights are the less likely to have additional support unless it was deathwatch or another Space Marine Company.

Charistoph
11-06-2014, 18:00
Actually there is a story where Arbites have a pair of leman russes. I believe it is in an Ultramarines novel but unsure on that. But I don't think SoB should have Arbites support any more than Guard or Marines. I think Gray Knights are the less likely to have additional support unless it was deathwatch or another Space Marine Company.

And yet, they have the Inquisition as support...

mightymconeshot
11-06-2014, 18:08
I don't feel the Inquisition is support for them as much as directing them and doing the paperwork that comes with their deployment.

Charistoph
11-06-2014, 18:10
I don't feel the Inquisition is support for them as much as directing them and doing the paperwork that comes with their deployment.

Aside from one offs, paper pushers aren't usually deployed as an offensive force.

Daenerys Targaryen
11-06-2014, 20:27
I'm honestly both itching for, and yet not wanting to see a Daemon codex re-write for at least another 2-3+ years...

The current 40k codex is awesome, and is only really blighted by the goofiness of stacking Forewarning + Grimoire onto a Daemon of Tzeentch for the re-rolling 2++ save non-sense.
On the other hand, the Fantasy Daemon book is easily the worst book of 8th edition and no amount of polishing can really gloss over how dysfunctional and teeth-cuttingly frustrating it is to both play with & against.

All I really want are those long rumored plastic Greater Daemon kits to come out!!!

A.T.
11-06-2014, 22:00
And the Arbites can't be those units, even for one codex? Just to get them both off the ground? Poor excuse.It's perfectly valid. If the arbites need to piggy-back a codex to get exposure then put them in the next guard dex instead of another ill-advised transport or russ variant, don't leech unit space of an already underdeveloped one.

The sisters have already suffered this fate once as they were crammed in with the inquisition rather than having a full update in 3rd. The result was the loss of their ecclesiarchy, named characters, and specialist command units for the next half dozen years followed by the anemic list they have today after non-sororitas units were pulled.



Ecclisiarchy really wouldn't be bringing many men that were little more than Priests or mobs, at least according to fluff. Arbites wouldn't have Russes (those are from PDF), but could have Bikes, Gunships, and Scouts the Sisters and Guard just don't have.Russes are an old staple of the arbites. And the ecclesiarchy certainly wouldn't be bringing much if they have to compete for codex space and production time with the russes, chimeras, marshals, arbites, shock troops, bikes, gunships, scouts, snipers, named characters and their dogs. Arbites are a ebook dex and seperate model range if ever there was one.



And this is the only valid argument you have that actually bears any weight. But as we've seen from other lines, this isn't as big a problem on a multi-week release format that GW has adopted recently.Tell that to the tyranid players who lost a bunch of units to a lack of models. Every single arbites sprue crammed into a sister of battle release is one less sprue of sororitas/ecclsiarchy models and the loss of the associated unit.


There is no shortage of potential units for the ecclesiarchy and sororitas, they don't need the arbites to fill out a book and they definitely don't need to be having units thrown out to make room for the arbites.

Zothos
11-06-2014, 23:21
We do not need Codex Policemen.

The game is far too Imperial as it is.

hobojebus
12-06-2014, 00:13
We do not need Codex Policemen.

The game is far too Imperial as it is.

But who will defend us from the genestealer cults?

Brother-Captain Endymion
12-06-2014, 02:05
But who will defend us from the genestealer cults?

Games Workshop's Tyranid design team.

hobojebus
12-06-2014, 12:52
Games Workshop's Tyranid design team.

Ouch dude too soon :p

Sephillion
12-06-2014, 14:38
We do not need Codex Policemen.

The game is far too Imperial as it is.

Agreed entirely.

Chem-Dog
12-06-2014, 18:50
Oh, I don't know. I'd like to see the Inquisition/GK/SoB folded into a single 'dex.

SoB and GK should be kept as separate forces, there are already enough ways in the game to piece together a "crusade" army giving players the opportunity to field the best of SoB's and GK's with impunity seems like a recipe for disaster., I know a good number of players would want to run "pure" GK, SoB or Inq forces, but others wouldn't have any qualms about including bits of everything and allying them with whatever is seen as particularly potent at the time.


The GK are the militant arm of the Ordo Malleus, SoB are the militant arm of the Ordo Hereticus, and the Deathwatch are the militant arm of the Ordo Xenos, correct?

Yes and no. SoB aren't really the Militant arm of the Ordo Hereticus. But ignoring that technicality, the problem I have with rolling Inquisitors into any other Codex or should I say my enthusiasm for a separate Inquisitor Codex stems from the fact that an Inquisitor isn't always able to call upon the resources of his/her Ordo's Camber Militant and is only marginally less able to call upon the Camber Militant of one of the other Ordos and that's in the case of an Inquisitor who is on the less extreme side of Inquisitorial Politics and has time to prepare before the conflict, where is the representation of the absolute radical waging a private war against their enemies using Daemon Weapons, Daemon hosts and scores of hired desperadoes? Where's the Inquisitor who takes command of a PDF Garrison to repel a sudden threat or the Inquisitor who unites tribes or gangs to eliminate a malignant entity and it's followers?


I often see the arbites brought up in these kinds of posts despite their having no links at all to the sororitas beyond the repressor and the shotgun option for stormtroopers in the old witch hunters books. Just seems to be a very widespread association amongst the fanbase.

I think it's also the inclination to think of the Ecclesiarchy as a "domestic" military force predominantly concerned with holding the domains of the Imperium (it's certainly true we see them effecting a defence of a shrine or other established ecclesiarchy holdings) and the undeniably domestic focus of the Arbites.
Like you say, there's no real link between them.


a lot of bloat and baggage that would have to be cut away

I'm not convinced that's a bad thing ;)

Charistoph
12-06-2014, 19:01
We do not need Codex Policemen.

The game is far too Imperial as it is.

One reason to have Arbites in Adeptus Sororitas.

Of course, it's one more reason to have the Sisters and Grey Knights in a single codex as well, and tossing in Arbites and possibly Deathwatch to boot. While we're at it, reduce the Angels and Wolves to being Supplements of Space Marines, and we've managed to add a potential four Xenos/Choas codices to the mix. That reduces the Imperium to 3 book codices, 1-2 ebooks, and numerous supplementals like Legion of the Damned.

Inquisitor Kallus
12-06-2014, 19:02
We do not need Codex Policemen.

The game is far too Imperial as it is.

We don't 'need' 40k, but its nice to have, as would an Arbites codex be.


Have you not seen 'Dredd'?
Arbites are awesome, but generally in smaller scale games I would say. They dont really seem that fitting as a 3000 point army. Though to be honest it could be cool if you have a similar 'small threat' enemy, (chaos cultists/genestealer cult etc)

Zothos
12-06-2014, 19:19
Yes, I have seen Dredd.

I noticed that it was not a military operation.

Grudgedesign
13-06-2014, 12:28
Arbites feels more like Guard, errh... AM with special weapons to me. Maybe a dataslate and an accessory sprue with weapons, helmets and shields to convert your standard Guardsman should be enough.

I can't see how the Arbites are connected to the Sororitas in any way. The Sisters are better off with militia/flagellants/raving fanatic support + priests, missionaries, saints and stuff like that.

Inquisitor Kallus
13-06-2014, 21:09
Yes, I have seen Dredd.

I noticed that it was not a military operation.

You dont need to be part of a military operation to be involved in a war

Charistoph
13-06-2014, 22:50
You dont need to be part of a military operation to be involved in a war

Wolverines!

Zothos
14-06-2014, 01:19
You dont need to be part of a military operation to be involved in a war

Yep. I will go along with arbites as soon as we get the Eldar, Tau and Necron police forces as well. Hell, maybe we should go for a "Codex Fireman" as well. Lets just cram as as much of the Imperial Civil Services into miniature and book form as we can. That will probably make as much sense as unbound anyway.

hobojebus
14-06-2014, 01:28
Yep. I will go along with arbites as soon as we get the Eldar, Tau and Necron police forces as well. Hell, maybe we should go for a "Codex Fireman" as well. Lets just cram as as much of the Imperial Civil Services into miniature and book form as we can. That will probably make as much sense as unbound anyway.

Your right we need codex infernus retardus repulsar powered infernus trucks that float amongst the spires, brave men and women armed with power axes for ease of entrance through armoured glass, each carrying smother guns that spray a chemical that sucks the oxygen out of the environment.

And of course each squad is supported by the hounds powerful cyberdogs used to search out survivors in even the harshest environment.

Coming summer 2015!

MajorWesJanson
14-06-2014, 02:36
Yep. I will go along with arbites as soon as we get the Eldar, Tau and Necron police forces as well. Hell, maybe we should go for a "Codex Fireman" as well. Lets just cram as as much of the Imperial Civil Services into miniature and book form as we can. That will probably make as much sense as unbound anyway.

Arbites are nearly an Army themselves, not just local cops. Read Enforcer. Great book.

Tau police are probably a mix of Fire Caste for the officers, and Water Caste for detectives, with an etherial as chief.
Necron police is likely a variant of Norton Anti-virus.
Eldar Police are their own path or series of paths- Path of the Warden, Path of the Inspector, Path of the Interrogator

Argastes
14-06-2014, 02:56
Arbiters aren't cops and they aren't there to police the planetary population. Each planetary lord's own security forces get to do that as he sees fit. The Administratum doesn't care at all about policing a planet's inhabitants or enforcing laws on individual Imperial subjects. The Arbites exist to police the planetary governor and make sure HE follows Imperial law, i.e. doesn't rebel or "declare independence". They are essentially a small Imperial army pre-positioned on every Imperial world to be the first reaction force (and hold out while reinforcements rush to the system) if a planetary governor turns traitor, or chaos/genestealer cults infiltrate the planetary government, or whatever.

All that said, I'm still not sure it makes sense to give them their own codex.

Sephillion
14-06-2014, 03:15
Necron police is likely a variant of Norton Anti-virus.


OK, that made me laugh.

Zothos
14-06-2014, 03:27
Arbites belong in a game like Necromunda. I believe there were rules for them.

They should stay there.

More Xenos for the 500000000 Imperial armies to actually fight would be nice...

Argastes
14-06-2014, 04:13
Yeah, I'd rather see more xenos codexes/supplements (plus lost and the damned!) too. Definitely before Arbites. But as the Imperium's first line of defense against planetary rebellion, chaos uprising, and genestealer cults, their scope isn't limited to skirmish game settings. They aren't cops. They are the Imperium's planetary counter-insurrection force.

Also the Arbiters in Necromunda were retconned to be the planetary governor's cops, rather than actual Adeptus Arbites, for that exact reason. It makes no sense for actual Arbites to be crawling around in the underhive, skirmishing with local gangsters. Because they're not cops and they don't care what gangs are doing in the underhive. That's a job for Lord Helmawr's enforcers. If the Arbites are actually fighting someone, it would probably be a rebel governor's PDF troops.

Voss
14-06-2014, 04:21
Why not? GW's policy is for updating books constantly. With 7th edition makes only sense they would be starting to replace them. I wouldn't be too surprised to see some of the first 6th ed codexes be updated soonish. Probably sooner than some of the codexes you mentioned...GW is in no way attempting to updating complete round before starting the update process again.

Agree with totally. GW is far more likely to redo other books than 'complete the process,' since they've made it very clear over the years that they don't think of it that way (and almost never managed it).

stopcallingmechief
14-06-2014, 16:35
You forgot space wolves which will have the oldest codex by far.

It should go wolves,BA, DE,GK.

I wouldn't hold your breath on sisters they've stopped recasting totally and alot of stuffs gone off the site, the digital codex hasn't had any kind of update either.

And no they wont slow codex releases, they have a new edition and so a reason to reprint each codex for 7th, after all it was a whole 2 years ago we bought the chaos codex thats long enough isnt it.


considering that chaos was flat out garbage in 6th and frankly looking at the changes and judging from the half dozen games ive played with them this edition, nothing has changed, AV12 is a joke which most of the vehicles that make chaos are. I would LOVE to see a new codex and would buy one for every member that plays chaos at my club if it would get my as of my game lastweek retired chaos space marines back into action. Had they done it sooner i wouldnt have blown $500 bucks last week on the start of my eldar army.

Inquisitor Kallus
14-06-2014, 17:31
Yep. I will go along with arbites as soon as we get the Eldar, Tau and Necron police forces as well. Hell, maybe we should go for a "Codex Fireman" as well. Lets just cram as as much of the Imperial Civil Services into miniature and book form as we can. That will probably make as much sense as unbound anyway.

1. Eldar, Tau and Necron 'police forces' don't exist as such, nice try though
2. They were in 2nd ed..
3. Look in the old Witch Hunters book, oh look there's something about using Arbites in there.....
4. There has never been any background precendent for 'firemen' fighting, but again nice sarcastic try though


Heres a little bit of info. (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Arbites) When all is said and done though, it doesn't matter if you go along with Arbites or not, it isn't up to you. Im not saying they should have a full codex and such, though it would be cool.

As to Necromunda, it doesnt exist officially as a game now though I hope they bring it back again sometime in the future. The precedent for Arbites in the game has been there, and we see a lot of things being brought back from 40k and its universe (bubble chukkas, Knights etc). As models im sure a lot of people would snap them up in plastic for the cool factor as a new unit in Imperial forces.

In regards to other codexes (such as xenos) being released before anything else, nobody said they shouldn't, but that doesn't and shouldn't in any way stop GW from giving us more options in the form of cool new models, codexes, supplements and the like even with all the moans from people about how they want their codex next

John K
14-06-2014, 21:36
According to rumours, after Orks, it’s going to be BA.

Honestly, I think the whole BA thing is just an afterglow of the (obviously wrong) BA-Starter-box/Warhammer 6.5 rumor, which simply refuses to die.

It's basically been "proven" wrong. Let the BA-rumors dies (for this summer at least).


Launch Window - @September
Rules Summary: Updated Mini-rulebook contains FAQs, minor tweaks and clarifications, and much of Stronghold Assault rolled into a new shiny package.
Miniatures included: @70
Armies:
Blood Angels (plastic quick assembly)
- Assault Marine Squad
- Tactical Marine Squad
- Death Company Squad
- Captain (kitted out for assault)
- Chaplain
- Sanguinary Priest (limited edition, similar to the Dark Vengeance mini was)
Orks (plastic quick assembly)
- ‘Ardboys (full mob)
- Nobs (small squad)
- Warboss
- Big Mek
- Ork themed fortification
This was described as simply an updated Warhammer 40,000 Starter Set and specifically “NOT 7th Edition.”

Fangschrecken
14-06-2014, 23:27
Eldar Police are their own path or series of paths- Path of the Warden, Path of the Inspector, Path of the Interrogator

Cue Eldar in harlequin trench coat and fedora walking down a narrow alley in the bowels of a craft world. Pulls out an iho stick bought from a rouge trader. With a flick of his fingers the stick is lit and he takes a long drag.
A scream in the distance.
With a sigh he throws the smoldering iho stick to the ground and rubs it out with his pointy shoes.
Such is the path of the watchman.

Path of the Watchman! This fall on ABC

(His boss has lost himself on the path of angry 70's police captain)

hobojebus
15-06-2014, 00:20
Cue Eldar in harlequin trench coat and fedora walking down a narrow alley in the bowels of a craft world. Pulls out an iho stick bought from a rouge trader. With a flick of his fingers the stick is lit and he takes a long drag.
A scream in the distance.
With a sigh he throws the smoldering iho stick to the ground and rubs it out with his pointy shoes.
Such is the path of the watchman.

Path of the Watchman! This fall on ABC

(His boss has lost himself on the path of angry 70's police captain)

Eldar columbo would be kinda awesome.