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Elannion
19-06-2006, 21:56
Hello i thought we should have a discussion about swarms and their effectiveness. Sometimes i think they might be a great thing, sometimes i think we just expect bad things from them so they look better. What are your theorys?

I thought i would talk about lizardmen swarms. Now the idea of them is great 5 poisoned attacks, an unbreakable, M5 skirmish unit what could go wrong. Well up until the new edition of lizardmen i loved swarms however there seemn to be alot of flaws with them now. For the points of this unit you could get a unit of 10 skinks, now your skinks can have poisened darts/javalins so this can take care of them units that need poison against them and they are M6 skirmishers, skinks and swarms die just as easy as eachother in combat or from shooting however there are alot more wounds and sometimes an armour save in skinks, the only advantage the swarms have is their unbreakableness. Suddenly swarms start to loose their appeal, other comparisons are a unit of three is equal to 15 saurus or 3 kroxigors, both are very respectable units, unlike the swarms. I think the best way if you are going to use a swarm though is to use just one, that will be cost efficientish using it just to protect a units flank for a turn or so but too many i think is abit of a points sink.

Ofcourse this is only my view on lizardmen swarms so what do you think, how do you think is the best way to use swarms? or perhaps have you found a good way to use lizardmen swarms in bigger units?

Trunks
20-06-2006, 02:59
The way I approach the swarms that I use, Nurglings, is to ignore their "tarpit" like nature. This is simply because, everything in my demon army has that quality. I view them as being skirmishing Ogre class models (Multiple wounds, multiple attacks) with lower toughness but still great durability due to their save and cloud of flies. The amount of attacks these dudes throw out is vicious and they can take a hit pretty damn well. I use them in regiments of five most of the time though. These usually are one of the things people are most worried about when facing my Nurgle Demons. They tend to run around on the flanks of my rank and file to intercept fast moving skirmishers and cavalry, or they hunt down smaller support regiments (anything with little static CR).

I'm going to miss their ability to always march when 7th edition hits though (I've been use to the threat of crumbling away when I lose combat unlike lizard and skaven swarms).

DeathlessDraich
20-06-2006, 11:17
3 categories of swarms:

1) Bat swarms - fastest
2) Nurglings - best in combat
3) Jungle, Rat, Tomb - poisoned tarpits

MarcoPollo
20-06-2006, 20:08
The nice thing about the jungle swarms is that they are small. So your salamnders can shoot over them.

That is a great idea for the use of nurglings. Ogre class models is the way to think about them for sure. Imagine, ogre class models that skirmish, can lap around if they win combat. That is nasty, nasty. At 40 pts a peice, this is an excellent deal. ( 5 wounds each, 5 attacks each, skirmish, cloud of flies). Harsh.

Neknoh
20-06-2006, 21:28
Don't forget instabillity (just as good as Stubborn if you ask me) and a daemonic Wardsave (or real ward if in DL).

Dl Draich, you forgot the über screens, the Spirithost, sure, they do not skirmish, however, they can tie up Monsters and knights forever as well as their abillity to block LOS and Shooting, and thus, a block of these can screen your most precious unit from the most vicious shooting.

Elannion
20-06-2006, 22:11
If i am allowed to ask this how many points are the other swarms roughly, the thing about the swarms i know (jungle and tomb swarms), is that either the points is the killer or there are simply other things about that do their job better for better points. In theory however swarms are great appart from the fact they are pretty easily killed if they dont have a save.

Neknoh
21-06-2006, 06:35
Well, Nurglings are actually cheaper than Chaostrolls, 15 pts cheaper to be exact. Spirithosts are the true murderers when it comes to points, costing an arm and a leg, but, they are etheral and CAN wound normal models too

DeathlessDraich
23-06-2006, 08:32
You're right Neknoh

That makes 4 categories:


1) Bat swarms - fastest
2) Nurglings - best in combat
3) Jungle, Rat, Tomb - poisoned tarpits
4) Spirit Hosts - most pts but ethereal makes them deadly!

gortexgunnerson
23-06-2006, 11:28
Spirit hosts weights in at 65 points but are so worth it for their usfulness. They can also move through scenery and impassible objects with a Movement of 12". this means they are a fantastic flanking unit. Being non skirmish means they can take ranks of units

squiggoth
23-06-2006, 12:41
Don't forget that Cloud of Flies helps other friendly units in the same combat as well - when fielding Nurglings in a Nurgle daemon army that ability is sort of wasted (since Plaguebearers come with a Cloud themselves), but my Chaos Warriors and Marauders greatly benefit from the little blighters.

And they are extremely good value indeed - in yesterday's game, my five Nurglings destroyed a Skink unit, destroyed a block of 16 Saurus Warriors and stole their banner, ripped a Skink Priest apart, turned a unit of four Kroxigors into pulp, and then claimed a table quarter ...... Not bad for a swarm of tiny household pests.
They had some support from a block of 16 Nurgle Warriors, but still a job well done. :D

fubukii
23-06-2006, 13:28
actually bat swarms only fly 10 inches, while Rat swarms and spirit hosts can march 12.

Goq Gar
23-06-2006, 18:08
The lizzie swarm is the best, poison attacks! lol

So anyway, I always thought bats moved 12, are you sure?

Neknoh
23-06-2006, 18:14
Yes, bats only move 10", Lizzie Swarms do have poison, but they are extremely fragile, and why wouldn't poisonous ratswarms be equally good?

I'd say the two best screens are actually Spirithost and Nurglings, Spirithost for their abillity to act as an invincible screen and to be able to tie down a unit of knights in close combat for almost indeffinable time.

Nurglings for their abillity to act as an infantry support unit that makes your infantry nigh on unkillable, and also for their abillity to take out most enemy targets thrown at them, they're a Stubborn Ogre Sized Unit with a 5+ Daemonic wardsave and Cloud of Flies.

MarcoPollo
26-06-2006, 04:04
Yup bats move 10" only.

Reyki
25-07-2006, 13:18
What do You think about Tomb Swarms.My friends tell me it's not good idea to take more than 3 bases of tomb swarms.
I take 4 bases.
It's skirmish,poisoned and have 20 Wo and Hi Leadership!!

DirtJumper
25-07-2006, 17:11
High LD dosen't matter, aren't they undead and therefore immune to psychology/dont break?