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Banville
18-07-2014, 10:40
Hi there,

I'm starting up an Orcs & Goblins army. Not the most competitive (Savage Orc Big Uns aside) but seems like they'll be fun. Every single army list I see, though, includes River Trolls at the expense of Stone Trolls. Maybe I'm missing something but could someone explain why a -1 to hit in combat is so much better than a 5+ Scaly Skin and MR 2?

Thanks

Vulgarsty
18-07-2014, 10:50
Well trolls cause fear in CC (which is where you hope they will be most of the time) which could drop your enemies WS to 1, so enemies would hit on 5's....then stick -1 in......

-1 to hit is considered better than a 6++ ward in CC (i don't know the maths off the top of my head)

Plus I don't find MR2 massively useful - if it gave you a 5+ ward against the effect of "Doom spells" and a 5+ save against the effects of Hexes on the unit (which 9th should definitely do to make MR more logical and worthwhile)

5+ armour save can count on -1 being knocked off that by practically everything.

Josfer
18-07-2014, 10:51
In CC 5+ Scaly skin can be reduced by S4+ and MR doesn't help at all. Also against most spells regeneration is better than MR2.

Yowzo
18-07-2014, 11:04
Hi there,

I'm starting up an Orcs & Goblins army. Not the most competitive (Savage Orc Big Uns aside) but seems like they'll be fun. Every single army list I see, though, includes River Trolls at the expense of Stone Trolls. Maybe I'm missing something but could someone explain why a -1 to hit in combat is so much better than a 5+ Scaly Skin and MR 2?

Thanks

And, in turn, common trolls win over both.

You can almost buy 4 common trolls for the price of 3 river or stone ones, and the extra wounds are generally more useful than -1 to hit or the Scaly skin/MR combo.

boli
18-07-2014, 16:22
The main reason you'll see river trolls is the models are a lot cheaper to buy than single trolls (standard or stone) although personally I love the old characterful stone troll models.

Vulgarsty
18-07-2014, 16:24
And, in turn, common trolls win over both.

You can almost buy 4 common trolls for the price of 3 river or stone ones, and the extra wounds are generally more useful than -1 to hit or the Scaly skin/MR combo.

Quite, plus the attacks, and I totally overlooked Josper's point that they have Regen 4++ anyway which effectively gives them MR4 against all but fire and metal anyway seeing as its either ward OR regen and not both.

...Just went upstairs to consult the book. Also they come out of the rare section rather than special (which may or not be what you want, but cost a whole 5 slaves ppm more (22.5 slaves v 17.5 slaves)

By all means field the financially cheaper river trolls, but run them as vanilla trolls, no-one will object, even at tourneys cos they know they wont get a "good sport" award or "tool debit" for the final rankings like most comps have eg at WH World Tourneys. In fact, it is illogical not to.

russellmoo
18-07-2014, 16:24
The problem with the stone trolls is that most things that end up fighting trolls are strong enough to get past 5+ armor and you will tend to see some river trolls used as -1 to hit will still offer some protection if a unit gets into combat with flaming attacks.

The other reason you see river trolls is that the models are awesome and some players insist on model accuracy, however the majority of river troll models are probably still run as regular trolls especially since normal trolls come from the much more abundant special section, while there is fierce competition between units to take in the rare slot.

Josfer
18-07-2014, 18:59
I totally overlooked Josper's point that they have Regen 4++ anyway which effectively gives them MR4 against all but fire and metal anyway seeing as its either ward OR regen and not both.
You meant MR3, right? Or di I miss something that improves the regen?

boli
18-07-2014, 22:08
Regen unless specified is 4+

Vulgarsty
19-07-2014, 00:11
You meant MR3, right? Or di I miss something that improves the regen?

Yeah, sorry, I meant MR 3, it works in reverse to everything else. They should call it MR6+++ (ie a save of 6 against spell wounds and effects, MR5+++, MR4+++ etc) for consistency then you know what you gave to roll rather than subtracting from a D6. Basically a ward that only works against spells, so better than than nothing but worse than a proper ward. That said, I think an MR roll against the efect of spell wounds (and instagibs) PLUS hexes should be allowed whilst wards should only give a save against spell caused wounds (and instagibs) but NOT hexes. Just my ha'porth.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath
19-07-2014, 01:33
Yeah, sorry, I meant MR 3, it works in reverse to everything else. They should call it MR6+++ (ie a save of 6 against spell wounds and effects, MR5+++, MR4+++ etc) for consistency then you know what you gave to roll rather than subtracting from a D6. Basically a ward that only works against spells, so better than than nothing but worse than a proper ward. That said, I think an MR roll against the efect of spell wounds (and instagibs) PLUS hexes should be allowed whilst wards should only give a save against spell caused wounds (and instagibs) but NOT hexes. Just my ha'porth.
It works that way to remind you that it stacks with ward saves, which is why its taken nine times out of ten. Its less confusing to count down always than to do double math when you're figuring wards combined mr