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EvanM
23-07-2014, 17:21
I have:
Archmage on foot
Noble on griffin/eagle
Converted anointed on foot

8 silver helms
35 spearmen
15 lothern sea guard
12 archers
20 swordmasters
5 dragon princes
5 ellyrian reavers
Repeater bolt thrower


What should I do? I've tried playing some lists with what I have an i'm a little unsure of myself and I don't feel like my list reflects my playstyle.

Any suggestions of what I should add on/remove to this army?

Adohan
23-07-2014, 21:51
What lore of magic do you use?

Now you have to much core, High elves power really comes from there special units so minimum spend points on core. There are 4 option,
1) 4 wide by 3-4 depth Silver helm for a really power hit on the charge
2) Deep spearmen 6 by 6+ block designe to be the avial that get stuck in combat ready for your elite unit to flank and really do the damage.
3) Large horde of Lothern Sea Guard, not the strongest option. As archers have better to hit (Lothern Sea Guard will never be at short range and not moving) and are cheaper, spearmen are cheaper and have more staying power.
4) Sister of Averlon themeed list large blocks of archers.

Swordmaster in large block just get magiced and range to depth, cos every one knows how powerful they are. So block of 10 with little to no commands.

I personly like Phenoix Guards as an anvil with dragon princes, silver helm and pheonixs flanking

EvanM
24-07-2014, 02:37
So what about leaving behind the reavers, LSG, and pick up phoenix guard?

Should I keep the archers as a bunker or no?

I like the swordmasters although I agree that they seem threatening and get shot up often. What about 21 of them, 7 wide 3 deep? They would really cut up armored opponents with a razor banner.

Adohan
24-07-2014, 07:27
Question 1) Do you preffer shooting and then counter charging your oppenent or quick moving and combat with all units turn 2?

Question 2) Your mage should have a fix spell lore on your army list what is it?

TheItalian567
24-07-2014, 17:58
Use LSG if you want to use them, just swap out the spearmen for them- just realize you're going to be spending 100+ points for the bow that only shoots at full strength at 12" (THAT BEING SAID I LOVE ME MY LSGs SO TO HELL WITH THAT!)

You can drop the mage in those archers if you'd like, or plop him in a group of Phoenix Guard.

20 SMs, while yes, an easy target as they are ASF WS5 A2 death machines- can also be a whirling death machine if you play them right. Getting magic shot at them? Banner of the World Dragon fixes that. There are ways to make a 20 SM block work and just become a buzz saw on the flank/against garbage infantry.

If you increase that Silver Helm block, drop your lord on a steed, and send that at people they'll have 3 very hard targets.. Dragon Princes, Silver Helm death squad, and 20 SMs. You can either bank on making none of your units targets, or making so many targets they have to spread out to counter every killy thing you've got.

DPs on their own are very killy, but can be bogged down.

This all requires a lot of adjusting- just go with what you like fluff wise and you can always make it competitive

EvanM
25-07-2014, 03:27
I like 21 swordmasters arrayed 7 x 3 for maximum carnage. I am gonna go for the "too many targets" thing.

5 Dragon princes is a hard hitting shock unit, 10 is good but i think i like 5 for now.

for my mage, i have tried lots of lores. I just HATE high magic, i just cant stand it. the lore attrib is literally the only reason id cast any of those spells.
(i have tried basically turning spearmen into phoenix guard by sticking a lvl 4 archmage and an Annointed in my spearmen block, i can get 2 spells off and give them a 4++ ward every turn. What do u think of that?)
Other than that, i think the lore that makes the most sense is Heavens.

Hmm i am on the fence about silver helms. If i do not have a mounted lord, should i just not use them?

i think i might sometimes run 50 LSG but not all the time. So they are out, for now (i would put 15 in the spear unit to get 50 in horde formation firing 40 shots each turn)

screw the archers too. the only thing id use them for is a bunker for my archmage, but thats an expensive bunker. why not mount him on a tiranoc chariot? haha yeah just kidding that would suck.

I like phoenix guard, so i am probably gonna add 30 phoenix guard in there somewhere. BOTWD is cheap but in competetive lists i would take it on my swordmasters.

TheItalian567
25-07-2014, 22:33
Yeah I'd definitely run 7x3 SMs.. It's what I'm going to be doing. Go with Razor Banner- Give them armor piercing, they deserve it.

The 5DP shock unit is a real threat. Go 6 if you want to go higher I'D SAY, but 10 is really a lot of points into one block.. I'd suggest 2 units of 5 to split the threat. One is bad enough, two? CRAP!

Brotha- if you don't like High then go with Shadow. You're going to like the way you look, I guarantee it. Life is also a great alternative due to the ability to add toughness to our low toughness models. Grasping vines on Sword masters turns them into a T7 unit of doom.

I just don't like archers, so I steer clear. I love LSG and have always so am including them for that reason alone. I considered 2 units of 25 or one of 35.. Still tinkering with that.

Silver Helms really depend on your focus, imho. If you're offensive, they're a must. They're a great, low point bus. Like I was saying, you drop a BSB and prince in that unit w/ DPs on their flank and it's a lot of attention diverted. One or the other is going to be able to front charge with the focus taken off of them. Defensive? You could stand for not doing these at all and be totally safe.

Phoenix Guard are hands down one of my favorite units in the game. Also, they're one of the most stalwart units out there. S3 +1 from halbred, Heavy armor, fear causing, extra rank attacks, ASF, +4 ward save.. OH and they're 15 pts a model? DONE! If you drop an archmage there, then it's a pretty safe bunker for him and it's a heavy anvil. You could take BOTWD on them if you wanted, just depends on what you're against I'd say!

Keep in mind though, make sure you enjoy the aesthetic of what you're doing- all lists can be competitive in the hands of the right general!

I'm making a list very similar to yours, I'll PM it to you when I post it on the board later this weekend!

EvanM
26-07-2014, 00:48
I am kind of liking the idea of trying a griffin prince. He's obviously fragile but also cool! And idk could be fun.
I built myself a foot bsb. Gonna use him now too.

Yeah right now i'm deciding between 30 PG or 30 WL. What do u think?

I like them both the same for different reasons.

I don't think i'm gonna focus on silver helms for the moment but I will use them for now as basically a light flanker/hunter unit.

TheItalian567
28-07-2014, 21:47
I'm going with PG just because I love the unit so much.. But I'm right there with you- I really want to use both so my dilemma is prevalent! Hahah

Go with the Griffon, I'm going to for a bit until I buy a mounted prince/bsb. Griffon with devastating charge? woof! It should be fun. It'll be different and you'll know, real fast, if you don't like it or not :D

You can even say he's on a Great Eagle if you want to squeeze out a few more points.

EvanM
28-07-2014, 22:36
Great eagle nobles give them 3w and t4 which is really nice.

Griffins don't help that much defensively but they can wreck stuff. Trick is getting the right target and not suiciding against something.

TheItalian567
29-07-2014, 21:04
I don't have the stats in front of me, but I think they had either more WS or Str? I can't recall.

EvanM
29-07-2014, 23:07
yes griffins have better stats but the stats dont mix with the character, the noble on eagle has one statline whereas the griffin can get killed separately than the prince

TheItalian567
30-07-2014, 21:08
Wait... WHAT?! I did not know this!? What!? Is that in the rulebook?!

EvanM
31-07-2014, 03:53
Wait... WHAT?! I did not know this!? What!? Is that in the rulebook?!

Are you joking?

It's a monster. It gets thunderstomp and terror but when a monster (like a dragon or whatever) is basically like a separate target.
In close combat the griffin can be killed out under the rider and the rider can be killed off the griffin.

Shooting can hit one or the other.

Eagles combine stats, it would give the noble T4 and 3W instead of just 2.

Did you not know that? Or am I the one who got it wrong?

Bigman
31-07-2014, 17:55
Check monstrous beasts then monsters entry

Then in at list look at unit type --- Mo is monster and MB is monstrous beast.

EvanM
01-08-2014, 01:36
so i am right though, a griffin is a monster not a MB right? wow now im doubting myself...

TheItalian567
05-08-2014, 18:02
I just must have glossed over that point- i forgot entirely. That's incredible. Makes Eagles way more worth it than Griffons

TheItalian567
07-08-2014, 18:04
After further investigation! I am lead to believe that this is not true. It states in the rules that the rider does not use the creatures W/T unless it is Monstrous Cavalry- in which case it just uses the W score. Monstrous Beasts use the same rules for Monstrous Cavalry.

Also, Great Eagles get Stomp and not Thunderstomp :(