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View Full Version : Triumph and treachery bribe vs impact hits



Ralkram
26-07-2014, 00:37
Here is the scenario, an empire steam tank is taken as a mercenary and charges a unit of leadbealchers alongside a frost heart Phoenix. During the close combat phase the ogre player bribes the high elf player's steam tank. The high elf player decides to resolve the close combat that the tank is in first and the impact hits then remove the steam tank from combat as per the bribe rules.

The ogre player argues that the high elf player is cheating because the bribe says they can do nothing that phase but the high elf player argues the 2 effects resolve at the same time and thus the active player gets to choose what order to resolve them.

Step 1 in the close combat phase is fight a round of close combat and impact hits resolve "at the very start of close combat".

Who is right?

SimaoSegunda
26-07-2014, 00:51
The ogre player is right. The bribe system means that a unit is treated as neutral for an entire phase, and neutral units cannot inflict damage.

Smithpod68
26-07-2014, 00:55
I would say the tank doesn't get to fight as it was "bribed" not to. I consider the impact hits as part of the CC phase as they count towards combat resolution. Plus,The High Elf player had the option to match the bribe. If he could not ,oh well !

Ralkram
26-07-2014, 01:01
The bribe itself isn't the issue, but the timing is the issue. Does the bribe occur before step 1 or at the same time as step 1?

The same issue came up with a casket of souls generating dice and the group decided that even if bribed the casket generates the dice ( which must be used by the tomb kings caster or wasted), because of the way the steps were worded allowing the active player to generate the dice and the casket just sits there doing nothing

bigbiggles
26-07-2014, 07:18
And here I was playing bribes at the star of turn.

Either way, bribes should take presidence over conflicts

Malagor
26-07-2014, 12:14
Bribes are done at the start of each phase and if he bribed the steam tank then the steam tank does not get to make any attacks.

Ralkram
26-07-2014, 16:28
I think we can all agree that bribes are done at the start of each phase. That isn't what anybody was actually arguing about. The argument is what is the "beginning" of the close combat phase. Every other phase has clear wording that says at the start of the phase do this, in step order. The close combat phase just says step 1, resolve a close combat. Then you look at the part where it says sequencing and it says nominate the combat AND resolve. That is where the argument is stemming from. Impact hits say they happen at "the very beginning of close combat", have their own rules as to what they hit, and with step 1 starting at resolve this, that is where the actual conflict is. I can see both sides of the argument and while it may be in the spirit of the rules for the unit to do nothing at all, it could also be argued that there wouldn't a section on timing in the triumph and treachery book if bribes were to be that simple.

can anyone even think of another rule anywhere that happens at the start of the close combat phase just to act as a precedent and lay this argument to rest?

Josfer
26-07-2014, 19:17
Look at p. 46 in the rulebook. The close combat phase starts with a player picking a close combat to resolve. At the beginning of that phase the player hasn't picked anything and the tank is bribed.

thesoundofmusica
27-07-2014, 01:07
The high elf player is being 'that guy' and there's a real easy way to not have these unsatisfying arguments every other game.... Dont play 'that guy'.