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Minigiant
27-07-2014, 15:28
Hello everyone

I have recently been reacquainted with my Lizardmen army and coincidentally acquired some of the new lizardmen at the same time so i bought the Lizardmen army book having not played Lizardmen for 2 armybooks. This is actually a little bit annoying because i just purchased an Ogre army. Ah well. So i read as much as i can about this army on here and tried putting a competitive 2400pt list together that i would really appreciate as much feedback as possible on

Without further ado

EDIT: Updated List - For full descriptions see below
LORD - Slann Mage Priest: 420 Points
Battle standard bearer, Standard of Discipline
Channeling Staff,
Focus of Mystery, The Harmonic convergence

This is a standard set, Lore of Life maybe better but Lore of high magic gains me access to Arcane Unforging which is a silver bullet to a lot of the meta currently

HERO - Skink Priest: 90 Points
Dispel Scroll

Scroll Caddie and eyes for the Slann

HERO - Scar Veteran: 154 Points
Great Weapon, Cold One, Armour of Fortune, The Other's Tricksters Shard

Cowboy, everyone knows what this does

CORE - 25 Saurus Warriors: 305 Points
Full Command, Spears

CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield

CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield
CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield
CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield
CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield

SPECIAL -6 Kroxigor: 300 Points

SPECIAL - Bastiladon: 150 Points
Solar Engine

SPECIAL - 8 Chameleon Skinks: 104 Points
SPECIAL - 8 Chameleon Skinks: 104 Points

RARE - Ancient Stegadon: 250 Points
Sharpened Horns

RARE - 1 Salamanders: 84 Points
+1 Handler
RARE - 1 Salamanders: 84 Points
+1 Handler

There we have it, what do you think?

-Totenkopf-
27-07-2014, 17:58
I haven't brought my lizzies out in a while but I can comment on the scarvet build. What was your plan on how to use him? You can drop the armor of fortune and still build him to be resilient but also cause more damage. Maybe the interwebs disagrees with me though..
As much as i love Krox units I think that there are some other unit options that would work well in this list.. I know they have a lot of punch and this list needs it, however, chameleons offer a ton and shouldn't be overlooked.

gingerdrew
27-07-2014, 18:15
Hello fellow Lizzie.....
First off what are you doing with the slann? He needs Temple Guard or Higher State of Consciousness, don't rely on magic to keep him save. You can put your Kroxigor together for a unit of 6, give the slann Lore of life with movement banner and put him there. Works ok with the lore attribute but no look out sir.

I would think of using something for Warmachine hunting or those pair of Bastiladons wont last long, and with slann I don't think you will find dice to use. Chameleons are great and cheap buy using skink models. Like Toten said, brill for the points.

Saurus block is a little small, and give the Scarvet Dragonhelm, Light Armour instead of the armour and Dawnstone to reroll those +1 armour saves.

Minigiant
27-07-2014, 18:55
I haven't brought my lizzies out in a while but I can comment on the scarvet build. What was your plan on how to use him? You can drop the armor of fortune and still build him to be resilient but also cause more damage. Maybe the interwebs disagrees with me though..
As much as i love Krox units I think that there are some other unit options that would work well in this list.. I know they have a lot of punch and this list needs it, however, chameleons offer a ton and shouldn't be overlooked.

What do you suggest as an alternate to a unit of 6 Krox? As on paper those two units are my main damage output. Chameleons look great i just cant find the points or justify dropping something else


Hello fellow Lizzie.....
First off what are you doing with the slann? He needs Temple Guard or Higher State of Consciousness, don't rely on magic to keep him save. You can put your Kroxigor together for a unit of 6, give the slann Lore of life with movement banner and put him there. Works ok with the lore attribute but no look out sir.

I would think of using something for Warmachine hunting or those pair of Bastiladons wont last long, and with slann I don't think you will find dice to use. Chameleons are great and cheap buy using skink models. Like Toten said, brill for the points.

Saurus block is a little small, and give the Scarvet Dragonhelm, Light Armour instead of the armour and Dawnstone to reroll those +1 armour saves.

The Slann bunkers in a unit of Skinks behind the battleline. Do you mean put my units of Krox together to make a unit of 12? I believe that Lore of High magic is more important for me as i then have an answer to a few of the metas problems. An example is my regular Wood elf opponent who utilises the Acorn+Moonstone combo. High magic gives me a silver bullet answer to the Moonstone and stops that avoidance game that doesnt use the movement phase

Saurus run 5x5 +1 but the 26 allows my slann to join them for safety if need be by running 6x5. But i will concede they could do with being a rank or so bigger.

I like that Scarvet build consider that stolen but due to my total army points it would mean i would have to drop something, possibly the Other Trickster's shard.

On another note i dont think Temple Guard are compulsory as it depends on the Slanns lore. If its a high casting lore then its not good because of the chance of miscast and destroying your expensive bodyguards. Also Higher State of Consciousness is not good in my meta with magical shooting elven bows

gingerdrew
27-07-2014, 19:45
Im playing a friend at the mo who is using the new wood elves, im using my ogres for a change, but how does your Kroxigor handle there shooting?? Ogres don't like it without trollguts, at least the temple guard have a better save, better WS and LD? Plus S7 is a little over kill.Even if you don't bunker with them,I think there better. Yes those waywatchers will hurt all the same, but that's why I took Wandering Deliberations and Tetto eko to vanguard my Salamanders. Elves don't like fire breathing lizards lol. Plus comets can stop him jumping...

Rippers work well and Chameleons are good for his fast cav...


Table him 3-0, just a few ideas.

MOMUS
28-07-2014, 11:53
The list looks solid but could do with some trimming.

I would definitely invest in another scar vet (or two) DBG or dragonhelm are always good. I like the krox but sadly don't think they are that competitive, also with the slann on high I don't think the two bastiladons are going to be worth it. I currently run one and thinking of swapping it out. Thought about maybe some razordons and boosting them with HoG might be more effective over the course of a whole game...I dunno.

I don't think the saurus fit, you could either go full blown skink cloud or take some TG (normally I hate them) but now rulewise you don't have to join them with the slann. Use them like a better equipped version of the saurus block.

Cant go wrong with chamelons or terradons. :yes:

Minigiant
28-07-2014, 17:57
I tore my first list apart and rewrote it. The following is my new army list with a small description of its roll

SEE BELOW or ABOVE FOR UPDATED LIST

Myster2
28-07-2014, 18:58
Couple of suggestions without knowing your meta,

1) From my experience 8-12 saurus will die before they get to swing back regardless if they are temple guard or warriors (they both have the same armor save/t in combat).
2) Chameleons are fantastic but try and get at least 16 (32 shots, 5 6's = warmachine\monster dead on turn 1).
3) Either scar vet build was good. One was better against heros the new one is better against core (but now what do you have to fight heroes?).
4) Ignore people saying you have to have TG with the slann. You don't. I just played in a WAC tournament with 0 temple guard. My slann didn't die or get threatened at all. I like making a dedicated skink cohort bunker for him (15-20) and adding another scar vet not mounted that goes into my saurus unit. This means if I either can put him in the skinks or if he has to go in the saurus he gets forced into the second rank.

gingerdrew
28-07-2014, 19:55
I totally agree, that a Slann doesn't need to be with Temple Guard, but you need to either run a lot of skinks. His list didn't have that, but lots of kroxigor.

Temple Guard are a very good unit as well as Saurus if used with the right magic Life/Light. Yes it happens, blow up that big unit but don't right works well. Ive seen me cast a fireball 2 dice, 2 6s and sucked into warp turn 1.

But 8-12 saurus, you must have rolled bad not making armour save or parry? Buffing with spells from life/light helps, then they hit back like a brick wall.

Minigiant
28-07-2014, 20:46
Couple of suggestions without knowing your meta,
2) Chameleons are fantastic but try and get at least 16 (32 shots, 5 6's = warmachine\monster dead on turn 1).

I am trying but it is difficult to know what to cut.


3) Either scar vet build was good. One was better against heros the new one is better against core (but now what do you have to fight heroes?).

Good point well made, i will swap that back


4) Ignore people saying you have to have TG with the slann. You don't. I just played in a WAC tournament with 0 temple guard. My slann didn't die or get threatened at all. I like making a dedicated skink cohort bunker for him (15-20) and adding another scar vet not mounted that goes into my saurus unit. This means if I either can put him in the skinks or if he has to go in the saurus he gets forced into the second rank.

I am of this opinion this is why my Temple Guard are for combat and my Skinks are for bunkering down in


I totally agree, that a Slann doesn't need to be with Temple Guard, but you need to either run a lot of skinks. His list didn't have that, but lots of kroxigor.

Temple Guard are a very good unit as well as Saurus if used with the right magic Life/Light. Yes it happens, blow up that big unit but don't right works well. Ive seen me cast a fireball 2 dice, 2 6s and sucked into warp turn 1.

But 8-12 saurus, you must have rolled bad not making armour save or parry? Buffing with spells from life/light helps, then they hit back like a brick wall.

My List has been updated, he was refering to that one.

I am considering swapping one unit of Temple Guard for an ancient Stegadon with Engine of the Gods and Sharpened horns. Then running a Wandering Deliberations Slann set up

Minigiant
28-07-2014, 21:54
Small update

- Skink Chief
- 2 x Temple Guard

+ Ancient Stegadon without Engine of the Gods
+ 2nd Unit of Chameleon Skinks
+ Kroxigor

- Changed Set up on Cowboy.

MOMUS
29-07-2014, 03:11
As it stands its a good list. Id say play a few games with it and you'll see the saurus disappear and turn into skinks cohorts/skirmishers.

The krox could pay for two fully tooled up cowboys. jus sayin' ;)

Minigiant
29-07-2014, 08:13
As it stands its a good list. Id say play a few games with it and you'll see the saurus disappear and turn into skinks cohorts/skirmishers.

Trust me i have been trying but my play style really likes three combat elements/blocks. Temple Guard/Krox/Saurus/Stegadons etc. Its hard to squeeze them in when 3 out of 4 of them dont count towards core.

I am writing a list with this route though

What are alternatives to Salamanders? I need to drop one if i run 2 Ancient Stegadons

Minigiant
29-07-2014, 11:23
Update

LORD - Slann Mage Priest: 385 Points
Battle standard bearer, Standard of Discipline
Channeling Staff,
The Harmonic convergence
Lore of Light

This is a standard set

HERO - Skink Priest: 90 Points
Level 1 Heavens, Dispel Scroll

Scroll Caddie and eyes for the Slann

HERO - Scar Veteran: 145 Points
Great Weapon, Cold One, Light Armour, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone

Cowboy, everyone knows what this does

CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield

Slann Bunker in the more mobile platform, that still grants a lot of protection without being ridiculously expensive if my miscast kills half of the unit.

CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield
CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield
CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield

These run disruption and redirection in front of the main battle line

CORE - 30 Skink Cohort: 160 Points
Musician
CORE - 30 Skink Cohort: 160 Points
Musician

To break Steadfast

SPECIAL - 6 Chameleon Skinks: 78 Points
SPECIAL - 5 Chameleon Skinks: 65 Points
SPECIAL - 5 Chameleon Skinks: 65 Points

Warmachine hunting

SPECIAL - Bastiladon: 150 Points
Solar Engine

Increases my Initiative on my battleline and adds firepower

SPECIAL - Stegadon: 235 Points
Sharpened Horns

Baby Steg because you cannot have 3 Ancients

RARE - Ancient Stegadon: 250 Points
Sharpened Horns
RARE - Ancient Stegadon: 250 Points
Sharpened Horns

Main Damage output

RARE - 1 Salamanders: 84 Points
+1 Handler

Extra handler incase they decide to have 3 snacks all at once. There role is to soften up the enemy infantry before my blocks engage

Minigiant
30-07-2014, 06:31
The list i will be testing for the next two weeks, 12 games, 2 of each mission

LORD -*Slann Mage Priest: 385 Points
Battle standard bearer, Standard of Discipline
Channeling Staff,
The Harmonic convergence
Lore of Light

HERO -*Skink Priest: 90 Points
Level 1 Heavens, Dispel Scroll

HERO -*Scar Veteran: 154 Points
Great Weapon, Cold One, Armour of Fortune, The Other Tricksters Shard

CORE -*10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield

CORE -*10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield
CORE -*10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield
CORE -*10 Skink Skirmishers: 70 Points
Javelin and Shield

CORE -*14 Skink Cohort: 90 Points
Musician, Standard Bearer
CORE -*15 Skink Cohort: 95 Points
Musician, Standard bearer
CORE -*10 Skink Cohort: 70 Points
Musician, Standard bearer
CORE -*10 Skink Cohort: 70 Points
Musician, Standard bearer

SPECIAL -*5 Chameleon Skinks: 65 Points
SPECIAL -*5 Chameleon Skinks: 65 Points
SPECIAL -*5 Chameleon Skinks: 65 Points

SPECIAL -*Bastiladon: 150 Points
Solar Engine

SPECIAL -*Stegadon: 235 Points
Sharpened Horns

RARE -*Ancient Stegadon: 250 Points
Sharpened Horns
RARE -*Ancient Stegadon: 250 Points
Sharpened Horns

RARE -*1 Salamanders: 84 Points
+1 Handler

ewar
30-07-2014, 10:18
What is the thinking behind taking lore if light with this list?

I'm curious because Light specialises in good buffs on infantry/cav. It doesn't have much effect on the stegs because their damage output comes from impact hits and stomps and without supporting mages banishment is quite weak.

Wouldn't Life be a better combination or wondering deliberations for the general toolkit? You need a way to heal the monsters, so apotheosis might even be a good choice from High. I just don't see Light synergising at all well with the style of army you've gone for.

I'd be interested to hear how your 12 games go though, so please update this with results if you can!

Minigiant
31-07-2014, 16:21
What is the thinking behind taking lore if light with this list?



The buffs to protect from shooting and the movement spell

I am thinking of going to Death anyway. There is very little material on running Slanns with BRB lores

MOMUS
01-08-2014, 20:39
Death is allllllllllways good. I run death a lot. It's soooo good.


did I mention death is good

ewar
04-08-2014, 13:08
Death is allllllllllways good. I run death a lot. It's soooo good.


did I mention death is good

When I look at competitive lists I wonder sometimes whether my BRB is the only one which has other lores printed in :)

I don't mind admitting Arkhan is a massive Death wielding crutch for my tomb kings...

Minigiant
04-08-2014, 15:45
Got 4 games in over weekend. Will do a full analysis once all 12 games are complete but what i have learnt so far:


Things i liked*

1. Standard of Discipline is great*

2. Target saturation (3 Stegs, Bast, Cowboy)*

Things that frustrated me*

1. No way to break steadfast

Things i hated*

1. Stegadon - i really wanted a 3rd Ancient

2. Lore of Light on Slann

Things i noticed

1. Against experienced players, cowboys are just a big of a cannon magnet as Stegadons, Bastiladons etc

Thats all for now

ewar
04-08-2014, 22:53
Things i hated*
2. Lore of Light on Slann


Looking forward to hearing how the games went in a bit more detail, but you'll forgive me for saying this point above doesn't come as much surprise as that lore does not synergise at all well with the list you posted above.

Minigiant
05-08-2014, 06:02
Looking forward to hearing how the games went in a bit more detail, but you'll forgive me for saying this point above doesn't come as much surprise as that lore does not synergise at all well with the list you posted above.

Have to learn from my mistakes. Went for Life game 4 and will continue with that.
I am already thinking of improvements, looking at Tetto'eko

MOMUS
05-08-2014, 23:50
Noooooooo to life! Yes it's AWSOME fun, bust such a predictable and dull lore. Don't roll dwellers and your opponent will make you cry.



also tetto is sooo mainstream man! :mad:

Minigiant
06-08-2014, 06:43
Noooooooo to life! Yes it's AWSOME fun, bust such a predictable and dull lore. Don't roll dwellers and your opponent will make you cry.



also tetto is sooo mainstream man! :mad:

Well i could run death ;-)
I think you will understand once i explain the 'filth' i play against. 50% of my 12 games are against different coloured elves

Minigiant
14-08-2014, 19:43
So finally got my laptop back to be able to type properly. So my 12 games 7-2-3, 7 Wins 2 Draws and 3 Loses. I wont go into all the games as that will be a bit boring but my opponents were in no particular order

Dark Elves
Dark Elves
Wood Elves x2
High Elves
High Elves
Beastmen
Empire
Slaanesh Warriors of Chaos Choir Bomb
Skaven
Daemons of Chaos
Tomb Kings

So my meta is filled with different coloured pointy ear people. As a gaming group we also run a W/D/L league which 13 of us play in. Only the game versus Choir bomb was a league match. So what i learnt

(Should be noted i switched to Lore of Life)

Things i liked

1. Standard of Discipline is great
2. Target saturation (3 Stegs, Bast, Cowboy)
3. Dice Channelling

Things that frustrated me

1. No way to break steadfast
2. The Skink Priest is okay, but I found its selection of spells restrictive. I am almost always needing the signature but every other spell could be helpful too.

Things i hated

1. Stegadon - i really wanted a 3rd Ancient
2. Lore of Light on Slann

Things i noticed

1. Against experienced players, cowboys are just a big of a cannon magnet as Stegadons, Bastiladons etc
2. Camo Skinks are really great, but sometimes they are practically another unit of Skink Skirmishers

So onto the new list:

Characters: 899 Points

LORD - Slann Mage Priest:
Battle standard bearer, Standard of Discipline
Channeling Staff,
The Harmonic convergence, The becalming cogitation, Reservoir of Eldritch Energy
Lore of Life

So i changed to Lore of Life which works wonders with all my multi-wound models. If i was not in a meta full of elves i would understand running death here instead. He also has a new friend in Tetto'eko to help him 6 dice Dwellers safely if need be. Throne of Vines also helps stop my BSB and General being sucked away into the void and allows my small bunker to keep what little numbers they have. I am going to be testing The becalming as i have sacrificed my scroll caddies (If anyone has any experience with this please let me know).

HERO - Tetto'eko:

The special character im predicting will take this list up another level. I am seeing lots o clever tricks with this one already

HERO - Scar Veteran:
Great Weapon, Cold One, Light Armour, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone

HERO - Scar Veteran:
Great Weapon, Cold One, Gamblers armour, The Other Tricksters shard

So i was really impressed by one; far more than i wanted to be i feel. I plan to send them off like missiles and wreck face.

Core: 620 Points

CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers:
Javelin and Shield

CORE - 10 Skink Cohort:
Musician, Standard bearer

So depending on opponent one of these will be the Slann Bunker. The Skirmishers are the more mobile platform, that still grants a lot of protection without being ridiculously expensive if my miscast kills half of the unit.

CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers:
Javelin and Shield
CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers:
Javelin and Shield

These run disruption and redirection in front of the main battle line

CORE - 36 Skink Cohort:
Musician, Standard bearer

For Tetto'eko to sit in relative safety and a unit that can break opponent steadfast

CORE - 10 Skink Cohort:
Musician, Standard bearer

My final cohort to bring my fortitude up to 6

CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers:
Javelin and Shield

So based on my opposition this unit can act as pseudo chameleon skinks with the 1 automatic vanguard Tetto'eko offers. This is important because it takes me passed 30 shots that on average guarantees me 5 auto wounds or in oher words 1 dead warmachine/Monster first turn

Special: 293 Points

SPECIAL - 6 Chameleon Skinks: 78 Points
SPECIAL - 5 Chameleon Skinks: 65 Points

Warmachine hunting

SPECIAL - Bastiladon: 150 Points
Solar Engine

Increases my Initiative on my battleline and adds firepower. I loved this thing versus dual hellpit

Rare: 584 Points

RARE - Ancient Stegadon: 250 Points
Sharpened Horns
RARE - Ancient Stegadon: 250 Points
Sharpened Horns

Main Damage output

RARE - 1 Salamanders: 84 Points
+1 Handler

There we have it, my list updated for the better i think. Tell me what you think?

Minigiant
17-08-2014, 21:36
Sorry for double post

I think my lists biggest weakness is that i am one foot in Skink Cloud and to take it to another level i need to go all it. Drop the dinosaurs to start with

Minigiant
18-08-2014, 21:16
Another update, i have gone all in on the skink cloud

Characters: 914 Points

LORD - Slann Mage Priest:
Battle standard bearer, Standard of Discipline
Channeling Staff,
The Harmonic convergence, The becalming cogitation, Reservoir of Eldritch Energy,
Lore of Death

HERO - Tetto'eko:

HERO - Scar Veteran:
Great Weapon, Cold One, Light Armour, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone

HERO - Scar Veteran:
Great Weapon, Cold One, Armour of fortune, The other's tricksters shard

Core: 600 Points

CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers:
Javelin and Shield
CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers:
Javelin and Shield
CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers:
Javelin and Shield
CORE - 10 Skink Skirmishers:
Javelin and Shield

CORE - 14 Skink Cohort:
Musician, Standard bearer

CORE - 14 Skink Cohort:
Musician, Standard bearer

CORE - 10 Skink Cohort:
Musician, Standard bearer

CORE - 10 Skink Cohort:
Musician, Standard bearer

Special: 477 Points

SPECIAL - 6 Chameleon Skinks:
SPECIAL - 6 Chameleon Skinks:

SPECIAL - 3 Terradons:
Fireleech Bolas
SPECIAL - 3 Terradons:
Fireleech Bolas

SPECIAL - 3 Terradons:

Rare: 408 Points

RARE - 3 Salamanders:
+1 Handlers
RARE - 2 Salamanders:
+1 Handlers

There we have it, my list updated for the better i think. Tell me what you think?