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Yowzo
06-08-2014, 10:46
Quick q.

Would the runemaw banner work against shroud of despair?

RAI it shouldn't, but since shroud of despair says that it "targets all units within 12''" (at least in the Spanish translation) some people argue that it is targeting the unit (though not specifically).

Thoughts?

Mid'ean
07-08-2014, 00:37
Yes, the runemaw would work against it. Does the spell target the unit? Yes. Any spell targeting a unit carring this banner gets bounced on a 2+. Nothing in the maws rules say anything about spells specifically targeting the unit. If a spell is gonna hit the unit, the maw kicks in.

Yowzo
08-08-2014, 07:46
Nothing in the maws rules say anything about spells specifically targeting the unit.

Yes it does. "Spells that do not specifically target the unit will not be affected by the banner", last sentence in the item description.

It boils down to whether "specifically" there means "exclusively".

Banville
08-08-2014, 18:50
But shroud does target a unit. It specifically targets several units. If the word exclusively was supposed to be used they would have used it. Specifically and exclusively are two very different words with no grey area between them.

olderplayer
08-08-2014, 20:28
No. It is pretty clear that the RAW is specifically target that unit, not all units in range. An area effect spells targets all units in range, not just the unit with the Rune Maw. The description says to choose a new target on a 2+, which makes no sense in the context of an area effect spell. Yowzo has it right that the issue is whether specificallly equals exclusively and, if you think about it, specifically does mean that unit, not all units broadly.

Mid'ean
09-08-2014, 15:07
No. It is pretty clear that the RAW is specifically target that unit, not all units in range..

Actually RAW says any spell targeting a unit with the RM. Nothing about all units in range. And your next sentance you state that the spell IS targeting the unit with the RM.



An area effect spells targets all units in range, not just the unit with the Rune Maw.

You are saying here that the spell is indeed targeting the unit with RM. Just cause it targets other units also doesn't change the fact the the RM unit is being targeted. Activating it's ability.



The description says to choose a new target on a 2+, which makes no sense in the context of an area effect spell. Yowzo has it right that the issue is whether specificallly equals exclusively and, if you think about it, specifically does mean that unit, not all units broadly.

You are correct here is doesn't quite make sense with this spell but you can't write the interactions for every spell that has been written in all 8 lores and army spells. I would play it that if it was bounced and all the other units are hit it would just not effect the unit with the RM. Simple. And as for the "specifically" part mentioned in the last sentance of the banner it is refering to spells like PS and such that do not target units. It was even FAQ'ed like that for the RM banner.

furrie
09-08-2014, 21:07
Actually RAW says any spell targeting a unit with the RM. Nothing about all units in range. And your next sentance you state that the spell IS targeting the unit with the RM.




You are saying here that the spell is indeed targeting the unit with RM. Just cause it targets other units also doesn't change the fact the the RM unit is being targeted. Activating it's ability.




You are correct here is doesn't quite make sense with this spell but you can't write the interactions for every spell that has been written in all 8 lores and army spells. I would play it that if it was bounced and all the other units are hit it would just not effect the unit with the RM. Simple. And as for the "specifically" part mentioned in the last sentance of the banner it is refering to spells like PS and such that do not target units. It was even FAQ'ed like that for the RM banner.
But doesn't the spell need to be able to target another target unit for the banner to work, otherwise it can't jump to another unit and as such the RM unit is still affected

Mid'ean
10-08-2014, 00:06
No. States that if no other target is in range or all eligible targets have already been targeted, then the spell is wasted, but still counts as being cast. So if the spell is bounced and all the other units around the RM are targeted, it just doesn't effect the RM unit. It still would effect all the units around them.

olderplayer
11-08-2014, 14:28
No. States that if no other target is in range or all eligible targets have already been targeted, then the spell is wasted, but still counts as being cast. So if the spell is bounced and all the other units around the RM are targeted, it just doesn't effect the RM unit. It still would effect all the units around them.

It is pretty clear that area effects (targets all units within range) are not that same as "specifically" targeting that unit. You are removing the term "specifically" out of the context. This is the point Yowzo made correctly.

thesoundofmusica
11-08-2014, 15:13
It is pretty clear that area effects (targets all units within range) are not that same as "specifically" targeting that unit. You are removing the term "specifically" out of the context. This is the point Yowzo made correctly.

A spell that specifically targets a unit, as opposed to say a vortex. It doesnt specifically target a unit.

Area effect or not doesnt matter. The spell specifically targets the unit.

olderplayer
14-08-2014, 21:34
Targets all units is not specifically targetting the unit in warhammer. That has always been my understanding.

Mid'ean
15-08-2014, 20:54
Comes down to 1 question. Is the unit being targeted? Yes or no? Doesn't matter if every other unit around also gets targeted.