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Dark_Mage99
07-08-2014, 08:56
I asked this in another thread, but it was part of numerous questions so I thought I'd open it here.

I'm confused by the rules for fast cavalry.

They can reform as many times as they like as long as they don't move more than double. But what does this actually mean?

Is every reform they make free, so long as they don't move double as part of the reform? If so, what's stopping you from reforming across the board and then moving your full march? (Essentially granting you a ton of free movement).

Or do reforms take away from your full move? In this case, reforming from a conga to a 5-wide might remove 4 inches or so from your march, for example. In which case, they're not actually that fast...

How do you play it?

Josfer
07-08-2014, 09:51
How do you "reform across the board"? In a reform the center of the unit still stays at the same position, so if you go from a 3*5 to 15*1 (conga line) and back to 3*5 your unit is where it was before.

And the rule says "provided that no model ends up moving a number of inches higher than double its Movement value." which isn't including any restriction to reforms of any sort, so (in my interpretation) no model may have moved more than double their movement value. So if you start by 3*5 and march your full allowance forward, you can't reform into conga line, as then half the models would've moved more than double the movement value.

Banville
07-08-2014, 10:19
The way my group and every other person I've ever played does it is you measure the distance from where the model starts to where its finishing position is (going around units, impassable terrain etc). If it's less than double your movement you're good to go. Every other manoeuvre inside that distance is a reform of some sort or other and so there's no restriction. It means fast cavalry are fluid enough to run through gaps and around things as long as no model finishes more than double its move distance from where it started.

SteveW
08-08-2014, 05:21
Banville is playing it the way most people do. Most people play it this way because it's easy and lazy, not because it's right.

Wesser
08-08-2014, 05:38
Banville is playing it the way most people do. Most people play it this way because it's easy and lazy, not because it's right.

When you are on your third reform you may be struggling to remember how many inches individual models moved

Frankly this is a case where the lazy way is the better way as it's pretty hard correcting mistakes in midmoves. It's simply the better way

SteveW
08-08-2014, 06:13
When you are on your third reform you may be struggling to remember how many inches individual models moved

Frankly this is a case where the lazy way is the better way as it's pretty hard correcting mistakes in midmoves. It's simply the better way
I wasn't talking crap on playing it wrong, but it's still wrong.

Maetco
08-08-2014, 06:54
I asked this in another thread, but it was part of numerous questions so I thought I'd open it here.

I'm confused by the rules for fast cavalry.

They can reform as many times as they like as long as they don't move more than double. But what does this actually mean?

Is every reform they make free, so long as they don't move double as part of the reform? If so, what's stopping you from reforming across the board and then moving your full march? (Essentially granting you a ton of free movement).

Or do reforms take away from your full move? In this case, reforming from a conga to a 5-wide might remove 4 inches or so from your march, for example. In which case, they're not actually that fast...

How do you play it?

Most likely you are playing Reform wrong and that is causing your problems. Reread the Reform part of the BRB and if after that you're still confused about Fast Cavalry come back and we're more than happy to help.

Banville
08-08-2014, 12:57
Banville is playing it the way most people do. Most people play it this way because it's easy and lazy, not because it's right.

It's not to the fraction of an inch exact but it's the only real practical way to move fast cav. It's a trade off between obeying the letter of the rules and actually playing the game. Which is why the overwhelming majority of people play it this way. As long as someone isn't obviously being a jerk and cheating with his movement then it's perfectly fine. And it's easy to spot someone playing puck with movement.

Dark_Mage99
08-08-2014, 20:46
How do you "reform across the board"? In a reform the center of the unit still stays at the same position, so if you go from a 3*5 to 15*1 (conga line) and back to 3*5 your unit is where it was before.

But what about when you can't keep the centre point the same?

For example, going from 4 wide 5 deep to 5 wide 4 deep? Here, the centre has to shift.

So then where does it stop? You could reform one horse next to the other, leapfrogging again and again until you cross the board, then move your full movement if reforms were completely free.

Masque
08-08-2014, 21:04
But what about when you can't keep the centre point the same?

For example, going from 4 wide 5 deep to 5 wide 4 deep? Here, the centre has to shift.

So then where does it stop? You could reform one horse next to the other, leapfrogging again and again until you cross the board, then move your full movement if reforms were completely free.

When you reform the center always stays in the same place (exceptions may apply for combat reforms). If you reform as above you shift the whole unit over half a base width and back half a base length.

Josfer
08-08-2014, 21:28
What Masque says.

hdctambien
08-08-2014, 21:28
I wasn't talking crap on playing it wrong, but it's still wrong.

I think the FAQ changed how Fast Cav moves:

Q: When moving Fast Cavalry or Skirmishers, should I measure
from the location of each model before it moves and place it anywhere
within its Movement Allowance (or double its Movement Allowance
if it is marching) ? (p68, 77)
A: Yes. Except when there is a unit or impassable terrain in
the way, the distance moved must include the distance
required to move around these obstacles

That sounds exactly how Banville described moving Fast Cav:

"...measure the distance from where the model starts to where its finishing position is (going around units, impassable terrain etc). If it's less than double your movement you're good to go"

So I think he's doing it right. Just keep in mind that they still have to follow the 1" rule, so most things need a 3" gap to move between units.

Dark_Mage99
09-08-2014, 16:17
When you reform the center always stays in the same place (exceptions may apply for combat reforms). If you reform as above you shift the whole unit over half a base width and back half a base length.

But this is an example given in the rule book...

Banville
09-08-2014, 16:40
FAQs take precedence. I didn't even know about that FAQ, to be honest. Just seemed like the best and only practical way to play it.

Masque
09-08-2014, 20:52
But this is an example given in the rule book...

Where? On what page?

Imperator64
09-08-2014, 20:53
Yeah, banville's way is exactly what the faq says as far as I can tell. Am I wrong? Did the faq change the rule in some way?

Masque
09-08-2014, 21:02
Yeah, banville's way is exactly what the faq says as far as I can tell. Am I wrong? Did the faq change the rule in some way?

Going by that FAQ it seems possible to move the unit through gaps that individual models, but not the unit, could fit through. I doubt whoever wrote it thought it through.

Imperator64
09-08-2014, 21:12
Going by that FAQ it seems possible to move the unit through gaps that individual models, but not the unit, could fit through. I doubt whoever wrote it thought it through.
Thats exactly what I do with my wild riders. As long as there is a three inch gap then they are able to slip between two units, reform to face a units rear and then be ready for a rear charge next turn.
And i've thought about it and can now see how the faq explanation isn't exactly accurate but it's close enough and definitely much easier.

Banville
10-08-2014, 07:55
Going by that FAQ it seems possible to move the unit through gaps that individual models, but not the unit, could fit through. I doubt whoever wrote it thought it through.

I'd say that's exactly what was intended. Fast cavalry is supposed to exploit gaps. Their rules reflect their fluidity of movement. The downside is they very rarely get rank bonuses because large units, even with free reforms are clumsy and difficult to get everyone through those narrow gaps.

Fast cavalry are harassment and redirecting units not combat monsters and their movement rules allow them to carry out this role. Otherwise they'd be pillow-fisted normal cavalry and have no unique role on the board.

Ossirian
10-08-2014, 08:20
Fast cav need a 3" gap. 1" base width with a 1" gap either side.
Measure your path from the guy furthest guy away from the direction you're moving.
Move him there, that's the furthest any model can go. Set the remaining unit up.