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TheItalian567
07-08-2014, 20:31
Ahoy all!

Just got back to the game from 4th/5th edition and decided to roll with High Elves as my restart army (Although WoC was definitely on the mind! hahah)

Here's the list.. Currently, I have 2 sets of IoB HE, unit of DPs, 8 silver helms. In my collection from my last attempt, I have 5 metal shadow warriors, box of spearmen, box of archers, and a mounted/on foot mage combo.

Prince: 277 pts
- Steed w/ Barding
- Giant Blade
- Enchanted Shield
- Dawnstone
- Dragon ARmor

Archmage: 320 pts
- Book of Hoeth
- Lvl 4. Shadow
- Talisman of Preservation

Noble: 166 pts
- BSB
- Elven Steed w/ Barding
- Armour of Caledar
- GW/Shield

Mage: 145 pts
- Dispell Scroll
- Lvl 2. Life

Lotheran Sea Guard x30 w/ FC: 390 pts - lvl 2 mage goes here

Swordmasters of Hoeth x20 w/ FC + Razor Standard: 335 pts

Phoenix Guard x 19 w/ FC: 315 Pts (i'd liek to squeeze the BoTW in here) - lvl 4 Mage goes here

Silver Helms x 8 w/ FC: 194 pts (BSB + Prince goes here)

Dragon Princes x5 w/ FC: 175 pts

Ellyrian Reavers x 5: 85 pts

Ellyrian Reavers x 5: 85 pts


Here are some things i'm considering... I don't have any eagles or shadow warriors so I' mwondering if I should mix things up and drop maybe a set of reavers.. Just trying to utilize the models I have but I'm also looking to add more!

All thoughts are greatly appreciated- I'd like to stick to a more cavalry heavy list, but i'll really just go all over the place.. DPs and PGs are my favorite units hence why I squeezed em in as best as possible!

Thanks in advance!

EvanM
07-08-2014, 22:21
prince: doesnt need giant blade, ive seen way more ogre blades used. seems S6 is enough for him.
Archmage: fine, a common build, just keep him safe. BTW i have been using an archmage but i have given him up for the Loremaster, OMG loremaster is amazeballs.
Noble: DOES NOT need armor of caledor if mounted, hes got barding and dragon armor and a shield for a 2+. drop the armor (usually only taken by foot characters) and take a weapon or a magic standard instead.
Mage: A lvl 2 with dispel scroll is fine, i usually dont use one, but its fine. could be a point saver if you dont need him.

swordsmasters look good, deploying 7 x 3 with a character on foot is my favorite way to do it (can even be the loremaster if you trade in the archmage).

Lothern sea guard should be deployed 10 by 3 for maximum bowshots. you probably dont want to engage much with these dudes, so they are a good bunker.

Dragon princes look good.

PGuard are okay, 19 is tough but they do have T3 so you have to be careful with them. I wouldnt want to field them without 25-30.

I personally hate reavers, but you can use them. everyone else seems to love them even though i feel like they are eagles that cost 2x the points, but whatever.

16 spearmen wont scare anyone, but 30-35 in bus can be a solid block, thats what i use.

16 archers can be used if you want, they are totally fine wizard bunkers. i would deploy a unit of 14 with a mage 5 x 3 and stay back with them.

anyways i personally like to try to get a lot of bodies onto the field with my high elves (a very unpopular opinion) and i get anxious with units of 20 running around, so i try to get around 100 models into an army, even if that means taking spears and archers.

TheItalian567
07-08-2014, 22:43
Evan, it's true. We're the only high elf players. I'm going to be posting this on Ulthuan.net as well!

Prince: Alright, i'll try both and see how it works- s7 seems a little intense vs. the points saved for s6- what would you take with the extra points from Giants to Ogre.

Archmage: Just wanted some magic umpf- I was considering not even using him and using a Loremaster w/ the Swordmasters so I'm glad you read my mind with that. I wanted to drop Grasping Vines on the Swordmasters to make them machines

Noble: perfect, maybe I'll go the star lance route with this guy then as he'll be in a block of silver helms.

Mage: Just wanted to use him for the added benefit of Life magic..

Archmage/mage there's also the consideration i had of using high magic but that's something i might be able to do with the loremaster...

LSG: I just love 'em for some reason- I hate the models for spearmen (I could easily count-as for these guys, but the LSG fluff is cool). Thought about expanding this unit to 25

PGs: I agree, I'd want to make them bigger. I just need to squeeze points around. 25 would be ideal.

Reavers: I'd personally rather take Shadow Warriors... These guys are just there so I'm trying 'em out to make an informed decision.

In the long run, I might be dropped the SMs for WLs, but we'll see. Also, I want to try and squeeze a phoenix in here if I can.

EvanM
07-08-2014, 23:00
Evan, it's true. We're the only high elf players. I'm going to be posting this on Ulthuan.net as well!

Prince: Alright, i'll try both and see how it works- s7 seems a little intense vs. the points saved for s6- what would you take with the extra points from Giants to Ogre.

Archmage: Just wanted some magic umpf- I was considering not even using him and using a Loremaster w/ the Swordmasters so I'm glad you read my mind with that. I wanted to drop Grasping Vines on the Swordmasters to make them machines

Noble: perfect, maybe I'll go the star lance route with this guy then as he'll be in a block of silver helms.

Mage: Just wanted to use him for the added benefit of Life magic..

Archmage/mage there's also the consideration i had of using high magic but that's something i might be able to do with the loremaster...

LSG: I just love 'em for some reason- I hate the models for spearmen (I could easily count-as for these guys, but the LSG fluff is cool). Thought about expanding this unit to 25

PGs: I agree, I'd want to make them bigger. I just need to squeeze points around. 25 would be ideal.

Reavers: I'd personally rather take Shadow Warriors... These guys are just there so I'm trying 'em out to make an informed decision.

In the long run, I might be dropped the SMs for WLs, but we'll see. Also, I want to try and squeeze a phoenix in here if I can.

Loremaster with Book of hoeth and armor of silvered steel is mine. basically same points as your archmage.

noble with star lance is cool but i kind of dont like the idea of him having a lance since hes needed to add punch to the silver helms who will only be dealing good damage on the charging round. more attacks or more strength swords would be fine on him.

LSG could be expanded, ive even considered using a unit of 50 of them in horde formation.

Lvl 2 life could be good to heal some characters but you have to stay within 12" of them, thats the only downside.

Screw reavers, i mean use them if you feel like it but i find id rather have a chariot or an eagle. (and core cant be that hard to fill with silver helms and other stuff).

a PG unit of 30 is a sight to see, very dangerous. i'd aim for that.

um white lions vs swordmasters is an interesting debate. I love them both. I kind of wish white lions had HW(axes) + Shields but whatever.
20-21 swordmasters arranged 7x3 is how i am gonna play it. they release 28 S5 attacks at WS6, and init 5 or higher? i forget. White lions hit at S6 instead, have stubborn and strider, and the armor difference. I think if you want more than 20-ish dudes then go for white lions, they work well in units of 28 (7x4) or 30 (6x5).

TheItalian567
07-08-2014, 23:41
Nice I like that point about the WLs vs SMs. Maybe if I expand the army higher or decide to swap them out and mix up my composition, I'll do it.

I'll probably drop the reavers for Shadow Warriors because i love the models!! Also, Sisters of Avelorn are something I'd love to factor in.. the problem with HE is that i love ALL of the units. VC? I love the characters, blood knights and that's it, so picking and choosing is easily. WoC? I love the chaos warriors, chosen and knights, and that's it! this is so difficult! hahaha

ezz
08-08-2014, 07:01
This are my idea's (in green) about your list from another high elf player.


Ahoy all!

Just got back to the game from 4th/5th edition and decided to roll with High Elves as my restart army (Although WoC was definitely on the mind! hahah)

Here's the list.. Currently, I have 2 sets of IoB HE, unit of DPs, 8 silver helms. In my collection from my last attempt, I have 5 metal shadow warriors, box of spearmen, box of archers, and a mounted/on foot mage combo.

Prince: 277 pts
- Steed w/ Barding
- Giant Blade
- Enchanted Shield
- Dawnstone
- Dragon ARmor
Looks fine, but i would drop the giant blade, ogre blade is fine and if you want a good ward save, because, while I in my post on your other thread, I said i threw 3 sixes, i was extremely lucky, so you might want to try this one
-prince 267
- steed w/ barding
- armor of destiny or armor of fortune
- enchanted shield (is this possibly)
- dawnstone
- sword of might
you have a 2+ w/ reroll/4++ or 2+ w/reroll /5++ and strength 5

Archmage: 320 pts
- Book of Hoeth
- Lvl 4. Shadow
- Talisman of Preservation
Looks good, maybe try a Loremaster, they're awesome, because you can kit him out as a caster or a fighter or a good mix between them (think about Book of Hoeth, Shield of the Merwyrm, and a magic weapon) but an archmage is fine too

Noble: 166 pts
- BSB
- Elven Steed w/ Barding
- Armour of Caledar
- GW/Shield
you don't need barding or a shield, you already have a 2+ armor save which can not be modified.

Mage: 145 pts
- Dispell Scroll
- Lvl 2. Life
Fine, good lore for a scroll caddy (swap one spell for the signature, 5+ regen is awesome)

Lotheran Sea Guard x30 w/ FC: 390 pts - lvl 2 mage goes here
Personally, I like spearman, but that's just my taste. If they work for you, then fine. I would deploy them in 10x3, just as Evan.

Swordmasters of Hoeth x20 w/ FC + Razor Standard: 335 pts
Fine, but if you want the razor banner, i think White lions are better for it, because the enemy is looking at strength 6 AP, which is awesome, but these are pretty good too, 2 attacks each at ws 6, s5 AP is perfectly adequate. BTW if you take a Loremaster, put them in this block because they get the most benefit from him.

Phoenix Guard x 19 w/ FC: 315 Pts (i'd liek to squeeze the BoTW in here) - lvl 4 Mage goes here
Fine, especially with BotW.

Silver Helms x 8 w/ FC: 194 pts (BSB + Prince goes here)
you might want to buff this unit up to 13 (5x3) so that your BSB and prince have a little more protection from the unit, and they don't end up fighting by themselves, without an unit

Dragon Princes x5 w/ FC: 175 pts
These guys are awesome, maybe get 9 with your prince, and just see how they rip and tear through a lot of stuff. In a unit of five, keep them alongside the flank of the sword masters.

Ellyrian Reavers x 5: 85 pts
Fine, this is some good chaff

Ellyrian Reavers x 5: 85 pts
Maybe drop these and get an eagle (fully upgraded

Here are some things i'm considering... I don't have any eagles or shadow warriors so I' mwondering if I should mix things up and drop maybe a set of reavers.. Just trying to utilize the models I have but I'm also looking to add more!

All thoughts are greatly appreciated- I'd like to stick to a more cavalry heavy list, but i'll really just go all over the place.. DPs and PGs are my favorite units hence why I squeezed em in as best as possible!

Thanks in advance!

TheItalian567
08-08-2014, 17:47
Ezz! Thank you for all of that. That's a lot of what I'm considering.

I'd like to try a great eagle prince too to see how that goes. There's a lot of talk about them over on ulthuan.net

Also, I really want to experiment with the Prince in the DPs. If I keep it 5, it'll guard the flank of my SMs just as you mentioned.

The Loremaster is something I'm really going to have to try as I love the Shield of Merwyrm and it seems like a perfect opportunity. I thought about putting Life or Beasts on my lvl 2 just to increase the toughness of my SMs so they are a bit tankier and scarier.

Good catch on the BSB, but I think i'll be swapping off Caledor armor for more utility via magic items like star lance and the sort.

Something about the Loremaster/Swordmaster combo I'm wondering on- and this is partly because I don't have the book in front of me to read the rules.. but does the Loremaster get access to all of the Lores PLUS High magic? If that's the case, does shield of sapphery trigger on the SM's deflect ability that gives them 6++ against shooting?

EvanM
08-08-2014, 19:07
loremaster gets 8 spells, the 8 signatures. not high magic, at all, no shield of saphery. However if you were to have a high mage in a unit of swordmasters, the ward save bonus would add on to the 6++ against shooting. Remember the deflect arrows does not work against template weapons. you cannot deflect cannon balls, flame guns, stone throwers etc.
however loremaster can cast earthblood to give the swordmasters a 5+ regen in combat, very nice (plus can restore 1 wound to himself from the attrib)

TheItalian567
08-08-2014, 19:14
Loremaster might be my next model purchase next to the lord pack..

I wish I could get a breakdown of the sprues included with the lord pack- i want to see what i can kit out.

So what I'm thinking of doing is dropping out the reavers for shadow warriors and seeing what I can do about adding more to existing units right now.

Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated.. This is really helping me morph my list in between times I get to play

ezz
08-08-2014, 19:26
@TheItalian567 No problem.

Could you tell my how the Shadow Warriors and Great Eagle Prince work for you (after the game), I would love to hear about them, especially because I'm considering to get me some shadow warriors. Thanks in advance and I will check ulthuan.net (did that before but nearly all the discussion were about edition before 8th, maybe that has changed)

Out of the lord pack you get (from the top of my head):
- One Horse
- Two bodies, legs and heads for two lords/heroes
- a book
- a standard
- some (I thought all) of the weapons

TheItalian567
08-08-2014, 19:36
Yeah.. I saw the big thread on the Great Eagle Prince and the other on the Cavalry Prince so I'm drawing a lot my information from there- which is 7th edition iirc.

A lot of the same conventions still SEEM to apply for the major exception of magic items on princes/mages.

I know that High elves thrive in the magic phase, but I'm trying to eek some form of real strong combat performance out of them as I feel it's there... OR just maybe I've read too much of the fluff hahah.

Eventually, I'll revive my WoC because i love the lord mounted on the daemonic mount (one of my faovrite models) and i love some heavy combat capable units. BUT FOR NOW, I WANT THE GLITTERING HOST!!

I should start posting my forays back into painting- not as horrible as i thought it'd be.

EvanM
08-08-2014, 23:17
Ulthuan.net is surprisingly outdated and old. Weird.

TheItalian567
11-08-2014, 20:18
So I played a game on Saturday using my CURRENT list (which is different)

Comprised of a Noble on Eagle, Archmage in a unit of 20 SMs, 22 LSG, 2 units of 5 reavers and 5 DPs.

Against a match 1500pt army of Ogres. They had 4 lead belchers, that cannon-chariot-thing, small horde of 10 ogres then a deathstar of like... 18 iron guts with a butcher.

Admittedly, having the Noble on GE is actually a lot of fun. I unfortunately missed the charge on his cannon by less than an inch. Which was big as the turn prior to the charge, his grapeshot sent 10 str 10 shots at my LSG in conjunction with his lead belchers annihilating 11 LSGs.

In his second turn, he got a charge off on my SMs, killed the champ and inflicted nine wounds vs. my three. he overcame the routed unit. Also killed 2 of my DPs with his belchers

Unfortunately, he had to leave in the middle of my second turn, but i got a chance to kill his lead belchers, cannon and charge into his smaller ogre horde with my LSG/Reavers.

I'd like to have seen how it would have played out, but chances are I would have lost.

Biggest lesson? Placement is EVERYTHING when it comes to high elves and working around a much higher str/toughness army. my primary infantry block got wrecked in his first turn of shooting. I didn't even get a chance to fire my bows liek I had planned and just went right for the charge.

Also, my DPs were so poorly placed that I had to charge them out into the open, take the shots from lead belchers, then finally complete the charge into them.

lastly, SMs are a very VERY fragile beast and I'm almost leaning towards WLs just to not have to worry about them so much, but one game is not worth writing them off over. I'll continue to investigate!

EvanM
11-08-2014, 21:55
Okay it sounds like the ogre player had as many ogres (3 wounds, 3 attacks, T4) as you had elves! Which Is crazy!
Screw the cannon chariot thing, but seriously that is not good.

First off, I fricken hate reavers and against ogre kingdoms (the army you faced for sure) they are utterly completely useless. Who cares about S3 bowshots when there's 5 of them? Or 5 light armor T3 cav in your side? Useless.

The noble sounded fun, so keep him.

Sounds like your mage didn't do enough to win back his points, which sucks, and at 1500 pts maybe a lvl 4 with book is overkill (he's around 1/4 of your points)
As elves, unlike EVERYONE I think it pays to still have some fricken models on the board. 20 swordmasters is an okay unit but I think I'd try to maximize the number of wounds I can put on the field, even with high elves.

Anyways goodluck, i'm trying to help you get the grip on things and try to recruit a fellow HE player to play without the cheap insta-win stuff

TheItalian567
11-08-2014, 23:46
Yeah it was a definite learning game, and i had a LOT of fun. my units got wiped off the map, but i still had a great time haha.

the SMs i'm seeing as fun, but maybe not a long-term unit.. the archmage got a convocation of fire off on his lead belchers- it was intended for his butcher deathstar unit but it was engaged in combat :(

yeah the reavers' performance made me want to drop them for shadow warriors.

i did just pick up a lord/bsb pack so I can add that to the mix.

i need to get those PGs so i have a solid anvil, and flesh out my LSGs. I need 8 more of those little bad boys. also, i need to bring my silver helms into my list (they're in a box stored somewhere)

TheItalian567
14-08-2014, 22:51
I've been tweaking my list a LOT lately, and here's roughly what I've come up with (I'm not in front of my army builder to give the EXACT numbers)

Prince - 262 pts
on steed w/ Barding & Dragon armor
- Ogre Blade
- Dawnstone
- Enchanted Shield
- Potion of Foolhardiness

Archmage or Loremaster
AM: Book of Hoeth, Crown of Atrazaar, Other Trickster's shard - 300 pts
LM: Book of Hoeth, Shield of Myrwyrm, Sword of Might ( I think, I'm sure it's a little different)

Noble - 171 pts
on steed w/ Barding & Dragon armor, GW & Shield
- Crown of Command
- Dragonhelm
- BSB

LSG x30 -390 pts
- FC

Silver Helms x13 (Prince & BSB go here) - 329pts
- FC w/ Shields

Dragon Princes x5 - 175 pts
- FC

Phoenix Guard x24 (Anvil w/ AM/LM) - 435 pts
- FC w/ Razor Banner

Shadow Warriors x5 - 70 pts

Here's where I get lost...
White Lions x21 - 353pts
- FC w/ BoTW

OR

Swordmasters x21 - 353pts
- FC w/ BoTW

I'm just kind of lost because I have a lot of strong units, but no real chaff/redirects.. wondering if this will gimp me.

EvanM
15-08-2014, 03:57
In a unit of 21 take swordmasters. Don't be the guy who uses BOTWD. Take razor banner on swords instead of PG.
Also having both characters with the helms isn't exactly what i'd do, I don't like to put 2 fighty characters in one unit.
If it was me i'd have 14 SH + bsb and 5DP + prince

ezz
15-08-2014, 08:48
looks good.
regarding the SM vs WL, it completely depends on what YOU want. Do you want anti-armor? go with WL. Do you want anti-horde/massed infantry? Go SM. but please, don't put the BotWD on SM or WL because both do well without it and good with the Razor Banner.

TheItalian567
15-08-2014, 18:11
Oh okay is the BotWD cheese at that point? Or just wasted on 21 unit size?

If I take Razor Banner on the WLs/SMs, what would be best for the PG in that case?

To be honest, I wanted to run a cavalry list, but I LOVE Phoenix Guard so I really wanted to include them in the army. I'm thinking of dropping the SM/WL outright for a frost phoenix and more shadow warriors for redirect/chaff/skirmishing ability. And maybe getting a 2nd unit of DPs so it's silver helms, 2 DP units, PGs + a phoenix and shadow warriors (maybe a RBT if I can fit it). SO I guess my main focus is I want to get up close and personal with the enemy.. which is why i considered the Loremaster so much.. but I really did enjoy playing with the ARchmage! SO MUCH CONFLICT!

The problem is that I like so many of the units that I keep trying to include them all and that spreads me too thin.

EvanM
15-08-2014, 18:35
Just buy the units you like and worry about how to put them in an army list after the fact.

For me, i'm just now collecting my white lions (have 10 so far) and I still need chariots, a dragon, rest of white lions, phoenix guard, sisters of avelorn, more archers silver helms and spears.